KrustyKidd

REPORT OF DR DAVID KAY Here is the applicable exerpt, the remainder goes on to say how WMD themselves have not been found - yet . Now, this doesn't seem like much but consider the UN resolution that said; And then Resolution 1441 that said; To me, "Serious Consequenses" mean different things to different peole. To a grade school child it may be understood to mean detention, or a loss of television viewing time. Saddam was a dictator who had invaded two countries, killed over a million and a half people, had allowed his people to starve in order to keep his WMD and even with over a hundred thousand troops ready to invade his country he still flaunted the first resolution. So what would "Serious Consequenses" mean to such a man? I take it invasion and destruction of his rule.

Bless you Lonius, you are a sport. So here I am wondering if I am the only one who can speak Bafflegab, and here you come! So, after agreeing with everybody, I started to wonder if maybe you should get your butt to a Hari Krishna site then I read True and false. It's a sweeping statement and one that should be discussed without simple war/anti-war rhetoric. Nobody can forsee the future. This is true for us and also those who lived in the past who's world we inherited. 20/20 and all we are still working with what is left us by past actions. Make the best of them and attempt to do right in the future. So many are saying and blaming what has happened, what should be done in the future considering where we are at now? That is the postion of the ball that is in play. Too late to kick for me so I'll leave it for you or another to start tommorow,

I agree that the leaders are not motivated by Religion but disagree with you that it is political. I beliieve that it is more fundemental than that. Simply power and the wish for adulation. There is the simmering pot (dissatisfaction) the heat (Islam) and the catylist that tips the pot onto the fire (Leaders). Then you have a house fire. Which do you remove? I think they are working on the first and last.

And what is even more stupid is that Religion has even less of an effect on our everday life than it ever did before. Like, where's the fire man?

better shape is relative if your daughter was abducted as a sex slave, your husband was blown up, and you cant leave your house. and lets not forget, the US traded and armed saddam, so they had a part in making iraq so bad in the first place. its not much of a feat to start a fire then put it out once its burned down the house. SirRiff My goodness Riff, this post of yours sounds like a rant. There is only one point in there and that is; and then to finish the sentence (so others can read it in context); Better shape is relative. It sure is. I should go on record here, this minute/second whatever as saying that this is one of the rare times I disagree with Craig. It is not. It is in chaos and a very dangerous place to be for all, both foreigners and Iraqis.Now back to your one point. Better shape if relative. Relative to what and when? The bell curve on the settling of the violence and the rebuilding efforts is already happening and much to your chagrin sucesses are accelerating even if they are not being reported with the zeal of failures. Soon, Craig's statement will be true and the relative point will be moot. You seem to forget that it really does not take much to make Iraq better than it has ever been before. Three hundred thousand missing people in the last twenty four years, eight hundred thousand dead in wars and people unable to travel or speak their mind. No Riff, your statement is a very temporary one which will soon go into the file of meaningless nay sayers under R for rant.

Hugo, I always believed that what happened hundreds of years ago with treaties and deals had no bearing on what an immigrant or a child born today should deal with. You have changed my mind in a minute with good points. Your reasoning is sound and yes we have to honor the deals made by our ansestors. As well the analogy of "rent" is correct in my mind as well. What I do not agree with however, is the present amounts. These deals were made to supplement the aborigional income and not to exclusively support them. For example, a token amount paid each year whille the native hunted and trapped to feed himself made sense. What does not make sense is building whole communities and rebuilding them when they fail because of apathy or mismanagement. Also, keeping in mind the origional purpose it is a travesty and not in keeping with the deal when the money is not used to provide for ALL the Aborigionals such as in many cases now.

No CK, it's common sense. Something that is lacking on the Palestinian side.

CK, hate to break the news to you but the average Iraqi doesn't care if Haliburton or Golda Meir is rebuilding their country. The results are what they benifit from, not who gets their palms greased. By the way, got a link for that post?

So now Hollywood is oppressing the population of Malaysia? CK, once again you don't even throw up a good rumor. I've given up on you. Two stinking weeks I've given you opportunity after opportunity to give me an argument of some kind so that we could start an intelligent discussion on this subject and you gave me squat. A few words of advice; Intelligent and well focused people can change their minds but only if presented with FACTS! Or a strong logical argument. Do I need to add the obvious? Brainwash Boy should be your handle. NO, I think "The guy I spent two weeks trying to see if he actually had an argument or point with and now feel embarassed I didn't dismiss him for the MISTAKEN GENTLEMAN he was" should now be my handle. You have an opinion for no reason CK. In order to prove my point I will provide you with the same texture of evidence as you have me. CLICK CLUX CLAN This site provides more evidence to support the Worldwide Supression Of Islam than all your floundering crap ever did. Later Drew

I hope the Liberals can stop this Elf Invasion from happening here.

I think if any country got hit by a North Korean nuclear missile that you'd find increased security across the nation simply because of the fact that someone's starting launching nukes and no one is sure if it'll end at just one. I don't feel we should help defend another country simply because we have economic interests in that country. I think that civilian agencies like the RCMP and CSIS would be the ones fighting domestic terrorism not the military. And it's not like our military is immobile, we have bases near major cities. Most likely each individual unit would the city they're located in or close to. Adian, the increased security would not end at the border, just as increased security at Airports did not end there. A missile strike on Seattle to us is far different than one say, in Brussels. The phsycological impact alone would dictate security unlike anything seen before in Canada let alone the economics of businesses shut down. Tell me, what do you do with ten million people in a country of twenty five million who have no money, no job , no unrestricted freedom to look for food, work recreation without having to carry a letter of some kind alowing them to cross a certain checkpoint? This is what terrorists (and North Korea if Kim felt there was no option for him) would like to create. Far fetched, but possible. This is worth a few token million dollars to me. As for RCMP, CISIS and the Armed Forces do the math. RCMP is doing what they do now, CISIS analizes intelligence and both depend on the army to do what we have just discussed. Where is the army? All 17,000 of them? Preparing to go, on, just comming back from UN missions. Even if they were at their bases they could not control a terrified population intent on getting out of town and finding no supplies to do it with. How many of those people moving through town are terrorists? Criminals intent on taking advantage of the situation? Don't forget there are millions of people in Toronto and how many army guys? LOL, couple hundred. As well, there are more but we are talking mechanics, pay masters, cooks and such. They support the guys who you hope are manning the road blocks that the RCMP does not have the manpower for because they are hunting bad guys that the intelligence guys at CISIS have told them to.

Makes sense to me Riff. I know my MP (Alliance) is a hog trougher. First thing she voted on (Ok maybe second) was her damm pay raise. Then she got down to business. Many Alliance MPs did not vote for the pay raise so I know that it was not unanimous. My suggestion, TWO YEAR TERMS. Keep these suckers on their toes. As a plus, they don't have time to screw up things that were laid by the previous administrations unless of course that was the platform they ran on.

Supposing this missile hit San Francisco you can be sure that it would bode devastation for our economy first and for sure our way of life. Security would be paramount to all other considerations. Our little chats here tonight would vanish pretty quick, trips across the border to shoot hoops would also disappear. Matter of fact I would imagine that martial law would be in place in every town or city with any kind of population. That to me is worth kicking a few bucks into the pot. Thank you for responding personally to me Adian. In response I will try and recite the jist of a European stratigist who was extolling the value of Paratroopers when they first came into being. The lines are close but don't hold me to it. "Show me the prince that is so rich as to be able to place an army so vast that it covers his land from border to border so that all areas are safe from the enemy." Nobody knows where a terrorist wil strike. When they do you need an army there fast. What if one struck in Victoria and a day later in Montreal? The next Toronto and the following Ottawa? We would start runnng out of little green men pretty quick, might want to call an ally or two, but what if they are too busy eating fois gras or taking over third world countries to view it as their problem? I just don't think that there is anything wrong with getting together for something like this.

Adian Adian, remember "the peace dividend?" Little did anybody know that after the fall of the SU we would meet up with the most unexpected foe of our wildest imagination; Militant Islam. This is pretty expensive stuff. Just as a hypothetical example that is a mathematical certainty, what does a country do, when it needs another countrys help in fighting this new threat when there is no treaty? Say France has no real military presence in an area where it's attackers are based, and the US is swimming in military might and not so inclined to help? How about France needs to transport troops across Turkey to get to Lebannon but Turkey has no agreement. What if it needs to be done yesterday as they are killing a French Embassy Official every hour in Beruit? FastNed Ned, be serious now. It would seem that the Liberal Party has done this so called "Threat Analysis" of yours and determined years ago that there isn't one, period. That is why we don't need to do anything to protect ourselves. Well, maybe from purple stuffed dinosaurs. Those Liberals, military prophets. OK, just lucky.

I think I can throw out a pretty good explanation. Just say for example you were the Bush's prior to 9 11. you need money for something. Do you think Bin Ladens would make GW sit in a waiting room while they did a credit search on him? Of course not. These people have the highest of prefferential treatment. Now back to 9 11. Maybe the Bin Ladens told the government in private many things that they now were able to piece together. I for one thought that the US was able to determine that it was Al Queda awfully quick so maybe they had help from the Bin Ladens. Letting them go is not too far to reach as well. Why hold a business partner whom you have a trusting relationship with. They needed to get out before all hell broke loose in the States (as many feared) with them being the target. As a friend, GW expidited this. Most likely with the understanding that if they could help further they would be able to answer questions 24/7 via phone. Another counter conspiracy point. If the Bin Ladens were involved in this with the government then why not leave the day before? Week or even month before to shift suspiscian? I for one think there is a fairly begnign reason for this.

OK CK, you are getting closer to having an argument but not quite close enough. I see where there is a reason for somebody to think that Jews are in a position of power in America and although I could challenge that but I will not. The reason is that I want to go along with it for a bit in order to get the connection to the oppression of Islam. Now, assuming that America is run by Jews, how is America directly putting down Muslims? And is it deliberate or just collateral action from a previous politically unrelated action? A bit of advice, I can tell this is all cut and paste from some anti Jew site. Please read an understand the stuff you are trying to post so that it is condensed and in context for an argument. This mass overload of info is really hard to wade through.

, for it was when the Germans heard of this, they decided to fight to the last.To say that Germany did not understand democracy? The Germans had a strong democratic process, and actually voted to give Hitler dictatorial powers. The same will happen in Iraq, should democracy reach there. The US (and UK) are telling the people of Iraq, "You will grant to you a 'democtatic' nation, but not an Islamic one". That will be the platform that will give rise to the next Islamic 'Hitler'. But, perhaps, that is the plan. Hi Lonius, I'm not sure how old Japan's culture was but am certain that it was more than a couple of centuries old and as foreign to democracy as Islam is. Hitler did not exactly get voted into power in a normal sense but rather forced his way in by using a democratic process against the existing government. One last point in the form of an open question. With all this "Bringing Democracy to the People of Iraq" the US keeps touting, do you think for a minute they actually plan on not bringing True Democracy but rather a puppet regeime? Being unlike the forties when the world opinion was simply "thank God the Germans have been beaten" this recontruction is eyed suspiciously by every Government on earth. They have a lot of freedom to give in order to not look self serving.

I think the request for proof of non citizenship is a reasonable one. Howver what I find outlandish is that there is no way or provision to get around the red tape. Something simple like an official letter from Foreign Affairs to the embasy of the country in questin saying in effect; You have 30 days to prove he is one of yours or you forfit all rights. Now to the new vehicle. I say bravo! About time we started working with common sense instead of against it. These machines have more than likely been tested and blueprinted to the highest level for performance and economic reality instead of simply awarding it to Bombardier. A thought I had the other day was to do more of this joint manufacturing and as part of the deal have Canadians either manufacture some of it here or allow our people to go there to work on these defense contracts.

I'm still trying to work with you CK. You keep saying Kissenger this and that yet none of the deeds he is being accused of have anything to do with the death of Muslims the world over. Second, it is Jew(S) that are being accused of oppressing the Muslim. A conspiracy means more than one person is necessary to perpetrate it. You also have no proof of this. Your proof is not even all over the board, it is not even fantasy that can be refuted. It is nonexistent. The only thing you have is the feeling that Jews are trying to keep the Muslims down. At least if you point me in a direction I can research it myself. Help me understand or just admit that you are a racist without reason.

Goldie, I thought that Craig said it well but you have hit the jackpot! I was trying to articulate which part was the best but it was all great. I started this thread to hopefully find one good reason why I myself should be proud that I was Canadian. I suppose that even being a fifth generation Canadian who had ansestors in the Boor and the two World Wars and Viet Nam and being an Ex Paratrooper myself I had fallen victim to the "Our Health Care is The Greatest" chanting and had pretty much given up on being proud. I added the twist that we should not mention or use the seemingly rampant rhetoric of how we should be proud because we are better in this way or that than our Southern neighbors. You have rejuvinated me Goldie. Thank you!

I am not an economist. I travel as a truck driver throughout the United States. They cannot find enough people to haul the goods that are manufactured, they cannot find enough workers to fill factory positions, they cannot find enough people to pour concrete and carryout the masive reconstruction that is occuring at an amazing rate to the highways and transport infastructure of America. These are not chump change jobs either. Factory workers in most places start at $12 - $18 US an hour as does the transport and road sufacing crews. I know myself and my American counterparts are well over the $150,000 a year range and the people that I haul freight for are on my back to buy a third truck in order to move more of their stuff. Incidently, I haul mostly goods from Canada to the US for US owned factories to their American parent warehouses. Somebody has to be buying this stuff as they seem to have no work shortages, only labor shortages. If there is a job shortage on paper maybe you should come down to where the work is happening and tell them because they havn't heard that they are supposed to lay themselves off yet.

The IRA is not trying to take over the world so it is(while a weak example for your argument) not applicable to this whole issue. Contiuing with my point you have raised another statement that is true but irrelevent As I do not live in the days of the inquisition I do live in the days of militant Isalm. They are the problem and to try to dilute it with examples from centuries ago to how it will be hunky dory centuries from now is meaningless to the problem itself which is NOW.

Thanks for seeing my point. I also agree with you in that the Liberals are not soley to blame. However, taking the US as an example, why are we not doing a lot better scince we have no big Military to worry about? You say it is simply a matter of the complexities of running a large and varied country whereas I say it is mismanagement and apathy. A quiick qualification for my point is that the government is never afraid to hire consultents to study problems. Never too afraid to spend money or hire people to fix things. They are the ones that need fixing Riff.

Yes they could. They would not do that for many reasons. One is that they have to have the same price across the board. The second is that if the price is too high (in order to harm the US) then they harm other nations. A third point is that once oil becomes overvalued people do not buy as much and you now have a glut. A glut is bad in that now you have a heck of a lot of oil doing nothing. A best case scenario is that you are not making more money but rather the same. A worst case is that nobody is buying it as it is so expensive. Once the price goes down (due to the fact there is more oil than you can shake a stick at) you are pumping like crazy but not makng anything. A fourth reason is the fact that if these up and down events occur too often then your market will seek alternative sources (pumping their own reserves to make up for shortfalls or reinvesting in electric alternatives or ethanol.) This will severely cut your bottom line for years to come if this is allowed to happen. The last reason is simply that OPEC is an economic organisation not a political one. Suppose they take an Anti US stand today and lose tommorow? The US would simply say the heck with them and start pumping their own instead. The reason why they don't now is becasue they prefer to use everybody elses oil and have theirs ready to be pumped once there is nothing left fity years from now. Stupid they are not. One other point. There is a reason for OPEC and that reason is to ensure that idiots do not do what you have proposed may happen and thus destroy them all economiclly.

Who linked that Riff? I know I didn't. Closest I came was; Emphasis on Militant rather than Islam I should have added to clarify it for your benifit.Craig said; Whistler also made a definite distinction by saying;