tml12

I don't much care for him either River.

Surely you lefties wouldn't mind the NDP controlling environmental issues in a Conservative government? I am definitely ready to give you guys that (because I am pro-environment and I thing CPC and NDP voters can agree the Liberals like to talk about the environment and that's about it.) Some good criticisms can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to..._Kyoto_Protocol Since the left likes to criticize the Americans so much, here is a list of American cities that have taken Kyoto action: Grassroots support in the US In the US, there is at least one student group Kyoto Now! which aims to use student interest to support pressure towards reducing emissions as targeted by the Kyoto Protocol compliance. As of November 15, 2004, nine Northeastern US states are involved in the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGGI) RGGI, which is a state level emissions capping and trading program. It is believed that the state-level program will indirectly apply pressure on the federal government by demonstrating that reductions can be achieved without being a signatory of the Kyoto Protocol. Participating states: Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Delaware. Observer states and regions: Pennsylvania, Maryland, District of Columbia, Eastern Canadian Provinces. As of December 2, 2005, 192 US cities representing more than 40 million Americans support Kyoto after Mayor Greg Nickels of Seattle started a nationwide effort to get cities to agree to the protocol. Large participating cities: Seattle, New York City, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Boston, Denver, New Orleans, Minneapolis, Austin, Portland, Providence, Tacoma, San Jose, Salt Lake City, Little Rock, West Palm Beach, Annapolis Full list of cities and mayors: US Climate Protection Agreement Home Page (Source: Wikipedia) Notice how Eastern Canadian provinces "observe."

I don't know anybody who is anti-American, but neo-con fanatics want us to think that it's anti-American to say anything bad about any member of their government. Look at all the politician bashing on this forum. By that definition, everybody here is anti-Canadian. The fact that people are standing up to political decisions shows that they have faith that their countries can become better. You are right though that people should be providing creative solutions to problems, instead of just mud-slinging. The worst thing to do is to take a fanatical-reactionary approach where you end up throwing out the baby with the bath water. I sure hope this applies to the Perle Cabal Too. Much of that first part you wrote before, and I responded accordingly. The Americans are not enemies to Canada. We aren't much different. I know, for the record, plenty of people who are anti-American and live the lie of the Canadian left. What issues would like to have a debate on that doesn't involve a conspiracy theory that cannot be proven?

What's not to fear tml? Say something positive and constructive to change my mind. Let me first say I am not doubting your theories. I just know there are a lot of people on the Internet who use it to spread lies and false propaganda. And even if everything you wrote is true (which, since I am not a fan of the current US administration, I may be inclined to believe) that does not support a neo-Fascist takeover of this country's government. Martin has already been doing Bush's bidding secretly, he is only anti-American during minority government and election time. Chretien just did everything secretly to please the hateful left element (like Carolyn Parrish) in his party. I want Canada to be strong. Federalism has consistently failed under the Liberals, especially Chretien. I want good Canada-US relation and a government that will not practice double-think, that I think neither of us like.

River, The Canadian left hates the U.S. and the American Right hates Canada. I am not confusing anything...we need a new, diplomatic relationship between Canada and the U.S., not Martin's hate-filled anti-U.S. rants to score cheap political points. It worked for so long under Chretien because of the inner hateful nature of the Canadian left (namely in the GTA) that one wonders for how much long it can continue. The Americans are our friends whether we like it or not. May I edit this and add the Liberals must be practicing the "neo-Fascist double think" you are so terrified of. After all, the Liberals (even Chretien) said soldiers and supplies to Iraq, a Canadian corporation is making most of the bullets for Iraq, etc. Has the neo-Fascist takeover of the two political parties that will form the next government already occurred???

ARE YOU HOPING THAT THE CPC SAFEGUARDS THE NET SO THAT IT CAN ONLY BE USED FOR PRO-CONSERVATIVE DISCUSSIONS SCRIBLETT (as on the Free Dominion Blog)? I wonder about you because of you past posts. River, Your absolute fear of a Conservative government is as bizarre as it is cute. At least your rants aren't as loathing as other lefties on the board though...

And the CPC wonder why most Canadians don't want to join in the USA's games.... It's anti-Americanism you know... we should be just like "our best friends and trading partners".... If they want to kill tens of thousands of people to secure oil for their friends, well ... aren't we friends... we should support them, no matter what they want to do... ... All under the guise of morals and "promoting democracy".... Ideals just like Harper's.. Well the Bush administration isn't promoting democracy for Saudi Arabia... In fact they have a deal with the Saudi royal family to use military might to prevernt democracy from taking the royal family's power.... (Oil more important than democracy)... The USA helped overthrow the democratically elected Mossedegh government in Iran in the 1950's when Mossedegh tried to nationalize their oil.... they overthrew a democracy and installed the Shah of Iran in power because he would give them something more important than democracy and morals.... OIL. The American spelling of Democracy is Hypocrisy. These are the kinds of values that Harper wants us to share... and not dare criticize.... More hatred of the Americans from the odious Canadian left.

The New York Post. (A high profile, fairly balanced newspaper) The NY Post is the cheapest of all papers sold in New York, is owned by Rupert Murdoch (you know the right-wing guy from Fox News), and is very right-wing. At least get your conspiracy theories right River.

Perle and Black are clearly soulmates: Both were Primary Hollinger Directors Both looted Hollinger Both are being charged in the US for looting Holinger. Harper and Black are clearly soulmates: Black's Giant Media Chain Backs Harper and continually advances the neo-con agenda. Harper was at 2003 Bilderburg Meeting holding Black's hand along with Perle and Wolfwitz Richard Perle quote: If we go forth, and wage a total war, our children will sing great songs about us Stephen Harper quote: Human rights commissions are an attack on our freedoms. It is in fact totalitarianism. I find this is very scary stuff. Harper being part of Perle's cabal is very scary stuff. ================= What is Stephen Harper doing at a super-secret Bilderberg meeting of the Western worlds central bankers, defense experts, press barons, royalty, prime ministers, international financiers, industrialists and government officials? The 2003 guest list includes names such as David Rockefeller, Richard Perle, Klaus Schwab (World Economic Forum), Henry Kissinger, the King and Queen of Spain, Paul Wolfowitz and a host of other bankers, corporate heads and royalty. Some Canadians in attendance included Conrad Black, Mark Steyn (National Post) Heather Reisman (Chapters-Indigo), Anthony Fell (RBC Dominion Securities) and Stephen Harper, Leader of the Opposition Attending this meeting wouldn’t generally be a problem, but Harper has a history of kissing up to the worst of these guys while smearing Canada in the process. http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes/leadersparti...per_speech.html The Bilderberg group's secret annual meeting determines many of the headlines and news developments that you will read about in the coming months. But the Establishment media completely black out any news of it and remain strangely reluctant to lift the curtain hiding this major event. A number of high-ranking members of the press who attend the annual meeting are sworn to secrecy, and news editors are held responsible if any of their journalists "inadvertently" report on what takes place. Yet few have ever heard of this exclusive and secretive group of the world's most powerful financiers, industrialists and political figures. (Why would Bilderburg not want to advertise their agenda on a website? Obviously because the public would not find any benefit in that agenda. http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php?sto...005040313371980 Conrad Black (key Harper supporter and former owner of 3rd biggest media empire in the world, including the National Post and dozens of other Canadian newspapers) was working side by side with Richard Perle (architect of the Iraq Invasion, self proclaimed Darth Vader, and key pupeteer behind the Bush administration) Both of these guys are being indicted over conspiracies involving Hollinger International The amount of money stolen by Black and his cohort David Radler amounted to $400m, a staggering 95.2% of Hollinger’s net income for that period. Hollinger went from being an expanding business to becoming a company whose sole preoccupation was generating current cash for the controlling shareholders (This same treasury plundering happened in the USA when the neo-cons came to power, and it will happen to Canada if Harper is elected. Remember how quickly Canada went into debt when Mulroney was elected?), As a result of his involvement on Hollinger’s executive committee, uber-neoconservative Richard Perle, ‘The Prince of Darkness’, sometime Chairman of the Pentagon Defence Policy Board, may soon find himself out of pocket to the tune of 5 MILLION DOLLARS Hawkish author Tom Clancy (Patriot Games and The Hunt for Red October) "almost came to blows" with Richard Perle. "Perle was saying how Colin Powell was being a wuss because he was overly concerned with the lives of the troops," Clancy said. "And I said, 'Look ..., he's supposed to think that way!' And Perle didn't agree with me on that. People like that worry me." Lawrence Wilkerson, General Colin Powell's chief of staff until January this year, alleged that US policy on Iraq before and after the March 2003 invasion had been hijacked by an alliance between Dick Cheney and Defence Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, fostered by President George Bush's "detached" attitude to details of post-war planning. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americ...ticle330218.ece Wilkerson even accused Vice-President Dick Cheney of creating the climate in which prisoner abuse could flourish, and implied that he might have committed war crimes. Wilkerson said that Cheney must have sincerely believed that Iraq could be a spawning ground for new terror assaults, because "otherwise I have to declare him a moron, an idiot or a nefarious bastard." http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/29/wil...w.ap/index.html Richard Perle would have been a key puppeteer in this Hijacking of the US Government. If Perle’s Network penetrates into Harper’s Government (see diagram above) Canada could face the same kind of neo-fascist hijacking that happened in the US. Complacent conservatives, of course, assure us that whatever happens, Canada has a strong constitution and the rule of law prevails. However, the Perle network in the US led the Bush Administration to withdraw from several international treaties, and contravene several international laws. Bush (under the Perle Cabal’s Direction of course) was recently quoted as saying the US Constitution was just a GOD-DAMN PIECE OF PAPER. “I don’t give a goddamn,” Bush said. “I’m the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way.” “Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,” Bush screamed back. “It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!” “Mr. President,” one aide in the meeting said. “There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution.” http://www.comlinks.com/polintel/pi051214.htm Remember how furious Harper was that Chrétien wouldn't let Canadian soldiers die "shoulder to shoulder" with Americans over Iraq's non-existent weapons of mass destruction --- even when it was completely obvious that Iraq didn't pose any near-term threat to anybody? Well the war drums are still beating. The neo-cons still have Iran, Syria and Venezuela in their gun sights. How has Harper changed in the last few years. Probably not much -- though he may be more cunning. If we just let our vision of the world go forth, and we embrace it entirely, and we don't try to piece together clever diplomacy but just wage a total war, our children will sing great songs about us years from now. Richard Perle It's hard to believe that key neocon puppeteers like Perle could change their philosophies that much overnight. Westerners, but Albertans in particular, need to think hard about their future in this country. Albertans should decide that it is time to seek a new relationship with Canada. The next logical step is to begin building a much more autonomous Alberta. ( Stephen Harper National Post, December 8, 2000) “Whether Canada ends up as one national government or two national governments or several national governments, or some other kind of arrangement is, quite frankly, secondary in my opinion… And whether Canada ends up with o­ne national government or two governments or ten governments, the Canadian people will require less government no matter what the constitutional status or arrangement of any future country may be.” (Stephen Harper Speech to the Colin Brown Memorial Dinner, National Citizens Coalition, 1994) Harper's statements are clear to me. It wouldn't even surprise me if Harper is backing the Quebec separatists because he hopes that will help precipitate Alberta's (or nothern Alberta's) separation. Do you know that a start up job at MacDonalds in Northern Alberta pays $17/hr. No wonder these guys think they are so hard done by. Harper's relationship with the Conrad Black and Richard Perle indicates that maybe the whole thing is in someway tied with Bush's energy policy. Are Bush's buddies trying to get "freer" access to Alberta's oilfields? Canadians should get very serious and look into this instead of treating it like it is such an unlikely scenario. Don't forget that even oil-rich Venezuela is in the Perle Cabal's gunsights. Again, your conspiracy theories and the faith you put in them are unbelievable. What next River? FYI if all of that is true we are screwed regardless of PM.

River, Your posts rely heavily on every conspiracy theory known to man. Even if it is all true, it still doesn't prove to me that there will be a "neo-Fascist hijacking of the Canadian government." The Liberal government ensured that Canada was responsible for providing Iraqi bullets (Source: http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cf...15&ItemID=6188) Are the Liberals also present in the "neo-Fascist" takeover of the Canadian government. What worries me with you is that you are stressed out conspiracy theories. There is a great one out there about Donald Rumsfeld being an alien...if I can find it...I think it is this: http://www.presidentialufo.com/donald_rumsfeld.htm)

I don't follow Ontario politics but everything I have read about McGuinty I have not liked. He seems callous and arrogant. Then again, he is an Ontario Liberal... :angry:

Perhaps she remembers a time before all these Liberal Chretien scandals tainted government and ruined our relationship with the Americans and generally hurt federalism.

Do we really need another multiculturalist ministry???

I will debate any position you have at any time...

It was an investment, one that's paid off a thousandfold for the entrepreneurs and governments and citizens of central Canada. Don't act like it was generosity or altruism. The government established sovereignty over lands that are worth millions of times whatever sheckles were spent building railroads and garrisons and bringing in eastern european bumpkins, like my mother's people, to settle the place. The bankers and businessmen who spent their money here were well rewarded. Central Canada got cheap raw materials and a captive market for its manufactured goods. Whatever extra cash Diefenbaker's NOP cost Ontarions was, likewise, an investment that helped build an industry that has contributed trillions of dollars to Canada. Your generousity has been returned in spades, your investment has seen astronomical returns... so please spare us the "you owe us!" stuff. -k No requests from this Eastern Canadian...

Well, politically I'll let you off the hook for voting NDP...although far to the left it is probably the only respectful party other than the CPC. Saddam is evil...of course oil played a part but you know what? With the Saudi Royal Family in trouble, the U.S. needed a Middle Eastern country behind them. Now, they have it. And if Bush (who I am not a fan of...I did love his father though) can be sucessful, more power to the Americans.

The "only real flaw?" Aside from the international flaws with Kyoto, Canada's flaw is that we signed it and did NOTHING... :angry: I would not mind a CPC minority with the NDP controlling environmental issues...

The left must be terrified. A Harper government is very possible!!!

And the Liberal program costs will be free? Get real. It will cost to set up Liberal warehouse daycare and cost plenty, and it will be years before one space is even available. Your dreaming..... it will be a Liberal boondoggle like the $200 million gun registry that turned into $2 billion... ....if it even happens. I hope not Canuck E Stan, I could have made 500 voyages around the world with all the money the Liberal Party stole from me to fix various elections... :angry:

Stealing my tax dollars to fix the 1997 election never bothered the Liberals... :angry: But yes, you are right...it is slander. But at least I acknowledge that it is pretty obvious something happened...

Kyoto is a seriously flawed protocol that will be impossible to implement by any democratic state if it involves any kind of sacrifice. Any Canadian politician that sent billions of our tax dollars to Russia in order to buy 'credits' would be voted out of office so fast they would not know what happened to them. The fact is reducing emissions is a difficult and expensive proposition and committing to specific targets is unreasonable. YES and without the U.S. and China (whose gas emissions are killing its own people anyway) it would be impossible for anything to happen. Meanwhile, the jaded Liberals sign Kyoto and do NOTHING while the Americans do not sign Kyoto and do A LOT... Canada NEEDS the Conservatives to strengthen this nation out...

I personally don't have proof...but with the Liberal track record do I really need it???

Of course adultery would count... If I was Prime Minister, I would not have a "definition" of marriage. Because is marriage is a religious institution for me, the various churches would have to define it. My personal views would be irrelavent.

Martin said "we must go to Iraq now." I remember reading it on www.teammartinsaid.ca or something like that during the 2004 campaign...

Who did the marriage commissioner represent? The way I was raised (Catholic), marriage is an institution that is religious and authorized by a priest. I understand that there is a new definition where the state can perform marriage. This is not my personaly position, but I am entitled to the traditional definition of marriage, aren't I???