blackbird

You misunderstand what the principles of the Bible would be as it relates to what a justice system is all about. Of course justice depends on evidence that is scientifically derived and validated. That is a Biblical principle. That is what I am saying. In setting up a FN justice council, we don't know exactly what the NDP plan is or where this is heading. I am not claiming there should be some kind of religious exercises involved in justice. I am talking about the basic principles in the Bible that have existed through history that we should be continuing to follow. That does not include releasing dangerous offenders if they are a risk to society or sending convicts to healing lodges, which the justice system is known to have done. The problem is not just that aboriginals may use their heathen spiritual practices to try to rehabilitate a criminal, it is the fact that the list of the claimed causes for an aboriginal person committing offences seems to show that the FN justice council's main interest is focused on a person's past life and how bad it was. That would seem to indicate they would reject the major principles of justice system, that is, the protection of society and punishment for the crime. That would be a major problem. We have already seen the consequences of that including loss of life of innocent people and police officers. "God’s desire for justice extends to crime prevention and the punishment of evildoers: • “For I the Lord love justice; I hate robbery and wrong” (Isaiah 61:8, ESV). • “When justice is done, it is a joy to the righteous but terror to evildoers” (Proverbs 21:15, ESV). • “Whoever says to the wicked, ‘You are in the right,’ will be cursed by peoples, abhorred by nations, but those who rebuke the wicked will have delight, and a good blessing will come upon them” (Proverbs 24:24–25, ESV). The Mosaic Law specifically forbade unjust weights and measures (Leviticus 19:35–36) and condemned the taking of bribes (Exodus 23:8). God places a special responsibility on judges and other authorities to provide justice, warning them in Psalm 82 that they will themselves face judgment. Every human tribunal is under God’s order to do what is right: • “You shall do no injustice in court. You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor” (Leviticus 19:15, ESV). • “Thus says the Lord of hosts, Render true judgments, show kindness and mercy to one another” (Zechariah 7:9, ESV). • “Do not show partiality in judging; hear both small and great alike. Do not be afraid of anyone, for judgment belongs to God” (Deuteronomy 1:17). • “In a lawsuit, you must not deny justice to the poor” (Exodus 23:6, NLT). • “Justice, and only justice, you shall follow” (Deuteronomy 16:20). Justice is linked to a right relationship with God, and those who know God will act justly: • “The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern” (Proverbs 29:7). • “Evil men do not understand justice, but those who seek the Lord understand it completely” (Proverbs 28:5, ESV). • “The wicked accept bribes in secret to pervert the course of justice” (Proverbs 17:23). • “Blessed are they who observe justice, who do righteousness at all times!” (Psalm 106:3, ESV)." What does the Bible say about justice? | GotQuestions.org

This is where you completely misunderstand what the Bible and the God of the Bible is all about and claim you are following science and reason. Following the Bible is actually following reason and has been for ions. If you support the use of sending aboriginal criminals to healing circles, smudging ceremonies, and other unbiblical, aboriginal practices that involve their concept of driving out evil spirits as a legitimate solution, you are supporting heathen religious practices instead of a civilized justice system. That is what we are talking about here. Do you seriously think an aboriginal justice system is following reason and science? I have told you that principles of the justice system in non-native society are more aligned with the principles in the Bible. Non-native society does not try to use aboriginal spiritual practices. Also the protection of society is a non-native priority or has been except with the liberals and left who have been constantly releasing dangerous offenders. Priority for the protection of society is a Biblical principle. Protect the innocent. Would you agree?

I am not trying to fool anyone. I don't claim to be anything other than a sinner saved by God's grace. I sinned through my life I admit. But God spoke to me through the gospel message on the radio one night 42 years ago and said whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Romans 10:13 KJV) I realized I was a sinner who needed to be saved. I believe God in his mercy saved me in spite of my sins. I realize the Bible teaches everyone deserves to go to hell unless they are saved. I am no better than the natives who follow in heathen religions. Christ paid for my sins by shedding his blood on the cross. I believe he was raised from the dead and because of his grace, I am forgiven by God. I still think about my past sometimes with regret, but I can't change the past. I realize I should not be looking back and should be looking forward. I praise God that he gave me this gift of faith and salvation. I am only telling you this in hopes you will know where I am coming from. I am not trying to fool you.

Justice is a difficult topic. The Bible has lots to say about it because justice is one of the central characteristics of God. There is no one simple formula. "Proverbs 21:15 - It is joy to the just to do judgment: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity. Amos 5:24 - But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream. Romans 12:19 - Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Isaiah 30:18 - And therefore will the LORD wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the LORD is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for him. Isaiah 1:17 - Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. Micah 6:8 - He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Psalms 37:27-29 - Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore. (Read More...) Isaiah 61:8 - For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them. Proverbs 24:24-25 - He that saith unto the wicked, Thou art righteous; him shall the people curse, nations shall abhor him: ..."

I have to admit it is really next to impossible to discuss the subject of justice with someone who rejects God and the Bible. The Bible is really the only basis of truth and justice. So how would it be possible to reach any agreement or understanding without that? It would be impossible to accept an aboriginal justice system. It would not be based on the Bible or Jesus' teachings but would be tied to heathen religion and ideas contrary to the Bible. But without knowing the full details and a thorough study, we are somewhat limited. That is likely why the government will not want you to know what exactly they are doing. "Justice flows from God's heart and character. As true and good, God seeks to make the object of his holy love whole. This is what motivates God throughout the Old and New Testaments in his judgments on sin and injustice. These judgments are both individual and corporate in scope. One of the greatest injustices we succumb to individually is self-righteousness—the belief that we do not need Jesus but are just and good and right apart from him. We can fail to see that Jesus is the righteous "judge judged in our place" (Karl Barth, Church Dogmatics) for our own acts of injustice, including our marginalizing him by refusing to sense our need for him to remove our sin and make us whole." What is Biblical Justice? | CT Pastors | Christianity Today I would say that the starting point of any discussion on justice has to be Jesus and his written revelation, the Bible. Without that we are just barking in the wind.

This is what one website says which seems to support the concept of "aboriginal law"'. "The Meaning of Justice: At the most basic level of understanding, justice is understood differently by Aboriginal people. The dominant society tries to control actions it considers potentially or actually harmful to society as a whole, to individuals or to the wrongdoers themselves by interdiction, enforcement or apprehension, in order to prevent or punish harmful or deviant behaviour. The emphasis is on the punishment of the deviant as a means of making that person conform, or as a means of protecting other members of society. The purpose of a justice system in an Aboriginal society is to restore the peace and equilibrium within the community, and to reconcile the accused with his or her own conscience and with the individual or family who has been wronged. This is a primary difference. It is a difference that significantly challenges the appropriateness of the present legal and justice system for Aboriginal people in the resolution of conflict, the reconciliation and the maintenance of community harmony and good order. Aboriginal Concepts of Law: There were and are Aboriginal laws. There were and continue to be Aboriginal governments with lawmaking powers and with provisions to enforce those laws. There were and are Aboriginal constitutions that are the supreme "law of laws" for some Aboriginal peoples and their nations…. Laws grow from the customs, traditions and rules of a society of people. They exist to inform people what that particular society considers to be acceptable and unacceptable. ― Aboriginal Concepts of Justice, Report of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry Commission of Manitoba (1999):" Microsoft Word - 923g Aboriginal Perspectives on Justice.doc (gov.mb.ca) The main problem I see in all this is the so-called aboriginal law is not described. They like to talk about such a concept but are very careful to avoid telling us what it actually means in practice. Let them tell us exactly how they would treat a dangerous offender and how would he be rehabilitated and how would their system protect society. That naturally leads one to wonder if they are talking about using smudging ceremonies to chase the evil spirits out of a criminal or some kind of elders wisdom to change the thinking of criminals. Perhaps some aboriginal dancing and wearing face masks to drive the evil spirits away. This kind of thing is actually still practiced. This is not making light of it because they actually do practice these kinds of things today. So what are they proposing? Since they can't give a detailed explanation of what it is they are talking about when they say aboriginal law and justice, I will have to withhold any agreement with it and stand by my belief that the primary purpose of the justice system is to protect innocent people from further harm. If that requires keeping offenders locked up, I would rather see that than letting them out to go to healing lodges and some kind of system which is being kept secret from us. If they have some real solutions that are better than what the existing non-native justice system is, then they should put all the details out there to be examined and judged. If anyone doubts what I am saying, I would suggest writing to anyone in the B.C. NDP government and ask them if they can describe in detail how the aboriginal justice council will work. See if you can get a straight answer with details on how aboriginal justice will work in practice.

That's not actually true. I have empathy for the kind of problems these people face. The problem is the left or NDP are not capable of dealing with the problems in a realistic way. The solution is not to simply let dangerous, violent offenders out into society. I am sure judge hear all about those problems put forward by the defence. That is how the legal system works. But the solution is not to just release people on bail or parole that still represent a danger to everyone. What is your solution. You are claiming to have empathy. Do you have empathy for the victims and for society at large who should be protected? Therein lies the conundrum. How do you take into consideration the past life of an offender and still protect society from a repeat or potential repeat offender, especially if the person is a violent offender? We hear a lot of talk about aboriginal justice or returning to their customs and justice, but many of the websites or aboriginal leaders, politicians that mention that word do not define exactly what that entails. Likely most of them do not even know themselves what aboriginal justice would mean. This is all part of the clash of civilizations when Europeans colonized north America. There are no easy solutions. If you have the solution, please tell us what it is. Federal liberals like to talk a lot about reconciliation and giving aboriginals more control but they seldom explain exactly what that entails and what it would mean in the justice system. I am trying to find out exactly what aboriginal justice would entail and how it would work. The first and basic purpose of the justice system has to be to protect society from dangerous offenders such as rapists, assault, murderers, etc. It is unfortunate that many offenders had bad lives in the past. Unfortunately that is usually what led them to commit crimes. We can't change the past, but we do have a responsibility to protect the citizens which they might come in contact with if they are release. We have seen terrible examples of people being murdered by aboriginals who were released by the parole board or let out on bail and they were released simply because they were aboriginal. This is not a viable solution at all and is a serious threat to society. No, I don't believe anyone can "beat" the fear of God into anyone else. That is a false assumption of how Christian or Biblical teaching works. Nobody should try to beat or force anyone to believe anything. I don't think that was a common way of teaching the Bible in history, although there were probably a few bad teachers around. We have bad teachers today in the public system and in government. Society is far from perfect. Not everyone is loving as they should be. Humans are not infallible and often make mistakes in the way they talk and act. But most people teaching the Bible are simply teaching what is in it and not beating it over anyone's head as you seem to think. I have listened to Bible teaching in many different places and ways over the years and never heard anyone come close to "beating" it into a person. One of the basic teachings of Jesus is to love thy neighbour. You don't demonstrate love to anyone by beating them with a subject. I hope I am not beating you when I talk about the Bible and will keep that in mind.

I am not talking about priests and those churches, because I don't know anything about them. I know there are Protestant churches that do contribute to different causes. They have elected representatives and treasurers that administer the donations and expenses and are accountable to the membership. They make their financial records available to everyone. They do not have a bad record.

Never said it was. Why do you make assumptions about people you do not know? People in churches donate to charitable causes.

Won't work as I explained. Companies would shut down and go elsewhere.

Sure, I contribute to charities. Not trying to blow my own horn, but to just answer your question. But we live in a country that already has social services, welfare, shelters, food banks, meal charities, etc. So you are talking nonsense. You sound more a Communist. We don't have many people out in the cold and homeless except in the major cities and often those people don't want to live in a shelter or follow any rules. If people would rather live on the street and take drugs, there is nothing you can do about it. They don't want help. They go to soup kitchens and prefer to live on the street where nobody will bother them about taking drugs.

That is pure fiction. You simply don't understand how the economy or investment works. You cannot control where capital goes. If the government tried that, the country would shut down and any investment would immediately disappear to somewhere else. Most companies would shut down and the country would become a disaster.

That's your Communist definition of a just system. That's exactly what leftists and Communists say. Canada is not responsible for all the poor people in the world. The world is not an equal opportunity place and everyone does not have the same opportunities or resources. People need to work for what they want. It is ridiculous to think that everything can be equalized somehow? Where did you come from? Obviously don't understand western free societies. Be thankful you live in a western nation which became prosperous because of free enterprise.

You obviously don't understand how the economy works. The government is already taxing companies and the wealthy as much as possible. As you increase taxes, more companies and investment will move to some other country and more people will lose their jobs. That is how it works. Its as simple as that. Some sawmills and pulp mills in B.C. are shutting down now because it is uneconomical with government taxes, regulations, and reducing the available number of trees. People are being laid off.

Sure, everyone is concerned, but the solution is not Socialism or Communism. Jesus said we would always have poor people. It is not a perfect world. There is no system that can make a utopia. Many people don't want to work or improve their situation. There are many people living on the streets that refuse to stop taking drugs and won't accept help. You can't do anything about that. People need to make an effort to help themselves too. Others through no fault of their own should be helped in some ways, but you can't give everyone a utopia and free everything. It just isn't possible.

NO. Christianity brought us a civilized society. Where did you come from? I bet it is an uncivilized place and probably a dictatorship as most countries are. Christianity brought freedom, democracy, and human rights which don't exist in most of the rest of the world. Nothing fanatical about the Bible. God created everything and everyone belongs to him. If you want to call believing that fanaticism, be my guest, but you are dead wrong.

That would destroy the country. No investor or company would invest in a place like that. They would go elsewhere and there would be no jobs here. That's the Socialist mentality.

Appears you don't know much about the Bible. The Bible advocates personal, voluntary charity, not state Socialism, which is what you are advocating. That would result in everyone losing their freedom. Why would any company or investors want to invest in a country where the government took what they earn? It doesn't make sense. That is one reason it doesn't work. You end up with a very poor country and no freedom, much like the third world.

You have a very naive view of the world. Socialism has always failed. Communist leaders have always been in it for themselves. You need to wake up.

The Bible is not religious fanatic The Bible defends the freedom to own private property and that means freedom to work and keep what you earn. Why would you want to give the government what you earn and let them control your life. That is not freedom. Freedom and free enterprise are not fanaticism. Keeping what one earns is just common sense and taking from others is theft. You think politicians are in it for the good of the people rather than themselves? That is fiction.

Sounds good, but the fact is somebody has to pay for building housing and apartments and it cannot be the taxpayers. It has to be investors. The problem now is caused entirely by useless, corrupt, interventionist governments that have made it very difficult for housing to get built. Municipal governments have also created huge problems with endless regulations, red tape with additional costs for builders trying to get building permits. Land has been locked up around many town and cities creating extremely expensive real estate. Canada has one of the largest land masses and smallest populations in the world. There is no excuse for the high cost of real estate. It is government that have driven up the cost of building homes and apartments. They don't accept responsibility but they are the main problem. Then we also have environmental radicals that don't want land to be used to build on and oppose development every step of the way. That is happening right now around the Toronto area where groups, including the NDP, are opposing making the green spaces available to develop for homes. No end of whiners and obstructionists.

Then stop thinking government should provide everything. Defend a proper work ethic and stand up for freedom, not government control and Socialism. Wealthy people do not create poverty for other people. That is one of the biggest lies of the NDP. Wealth is not the big bad boogy man. Wealth and investors is what creates good-paying jobs for everyone. Why do you think the west is more prosperous than than Asia, Africa, and South America. It is because people with wealth invest it in corporations that create more jobs and generate more wealth. Stop believing the lying NDP and left. Socialism has failed where it has been tried. Leftism is wrecking the west.

"The Bible tells us that Socialism is slavery and thievery. And anybody who has lived under Socialism can confirm it. Socialism destroys the Biblical work ethic and confiscates assets earned by producers and gives them to non-producers. This de-motivates producers and creates a cycle of sloth, poverty and dependence." What Does the Bible Say About Socialism? – Faith Founded on Fact Couples should not be living together unless they are married and shouldn't be having kids unless they have a job that can support them. Instead of expecting government and taxpayers to support you, get a skill, trade, and a proper job. There is no "right" to a free home. We should not be bringing in immigrants who think government owes them everything.

Because it would cost billions to build the number of houses that are needed. Socialism is one of the biggest threats the western world faces. Everyone wants free stuff but nobody wants to pay for it.

Do you know how childish that sounds. "Be nice to me and I will give you all that I have". Really, you think they will be nice to you if you give them more and more? Grow up! Being here first does not necessarily carry a lot of weight. They may have occupied only small villages scattered here and there around the province and did not occupy or own the vast regions of wilderness throughout the province, even though many bands now claim ownership of thousands of square kilometers, much of which they never occupied before. People migrated from one place to another all over the world. Where do they cow-tow to previous aboriginals and pay compensations of billions of dollars and give the aboriginals control over the justice system and everything else? The British didn't need to negotiate surrenders or agreements with aboriginals. So why would you think they need to now all of a sudden? That is not how countries were settled or colonized. That is how the world was settled. The British simply assumed ownership and control. Prior to that the province had many different tribes or bands of natives living throughout the region. However, there was no one government. Queen Victoria simply declared the area a British Colony in 1858. On the 20th of July 1871, British Columbia became part of Canada. It extends from the American border on the south to Alaska on the north. If you think the natives still own the land you live in some kind of alt realty. They were given hunting and fishing rights in certain areas but were expected to follow the laws of the land.