blackbird

You're welcome. We kind of wandered around talking about a number of things such as history of the evil things done in the world and by religions. Then I tried to explain, especially with websites that know much more than me, about who the Devil is and what part he plays in the evil in the world. I believe the bottom line is what the Bible tells us particularly the King James Bible because it was written by eye witnesses to the power of God. I am just reading that book, The Biblical Doctrine of Satan, from Amazon Kindle I downloaded. Read the first few pages. It is quite interesting. Looks like God for whatever reason allows Satan to have a certain amount of control and presence on earth until Christ returns. He has deceived millions of people into believing he does not exist. But you are correct, religious and atheist rarely agree. But that is what debate and discussion is for. We share each other's views and that's all we can do. What people do with it is their business. Looks like it will be getting hot the next number of days. Keep cool.

Good question. "How Did Lucifer Fall and Become Satan? Lucifer became so impressed with his own beauty, intelligence, power, and position that he began to desire for himself the honor and glory that belonged to God alone. This pride represents the actual beginning of sin in the universe—preceding the fall of the human Adam by an indeterminate time." The story of Lucifer's fall is described in Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14. I should mention to use only the King James Bible (1611). Modern versions have corrupted the history of Lucifer/Satan. He has even had a hand in the production of modern versions of the Bible. I am not an expert on it, but had a recollection that he rebelled against God and was kicked out of heaven. So his name was changed to Satan but his goal is still the same. He seeks the honor and glory that belongs to God. The Story of Lucifer - How Did He Fall and Become Satan? (christianity.com) That is true. Again this comes back to doctrine on the fall of man and as a result man has a fallen, corrupt nature. That is the basic reason for all the wars, crime, and suffering in the world. Most religions in the world are false in the sense they are not worshiping the true God of the Bible. Also, because of man's corrupt nature, we have even within nominal Christianity cults, and large numbers of people who are not really following the Bible. There are many shades of churches. Some that are fairly close to the truth in what they believe, some in more error than others, and some that are false. Even within any particular church, there are many different kinds of people. A church is not a place where everyone is suddenly perfect humans. Churches have been likened to hospitals where people that are suffering spiritually or searching for truth go to hear sound preaching that will help them. Many evil things have happened through the centuries by people in various religions and also apart from religion. Atheists and communist, fascists have also done many evil things in history. Quite true. He is in opposition to God to begin with. From what I know the Bible says he is a liar and the father of it. He is a deceiver. He tempted Eve to rebel against God in the beginning. "As a result of this heinous sin against God, Lucifer was banished from living in heaven (Isaiah 14:12). He became corrupt, and his name changed from Lucifer (“morning star”) to Satan (“adversary”). His power became completely perverted (Isaiah 14:12,16,17). And his destiny, following the second coming of Christ, is to be bound in a pit during the 1000-year millennial kingdom over which Christ will rule (Revelation 20:3), and eventually will be thrown into the lake of fire (Matthew 25:41). " The Story of Lucifer - How Did He Fall and Become Satan? (christianity.com) "Deceiver and Accuser Even though this supernatural being, this fallen angel and archenemy of God, has a remarkable power in the material or physical realm —he can make people sick, he can throw them in prison, and he can even kill them — nevertheless, his main way of opposing God and destroying God’s people is not in the physical or material realm, but in the mental or intellectual or moral realm. In other words, the best way to think about his power is not in terms of physical strength, but moral deception. Let me try to illustrate this from the Bible. Here’s the passage that piles up more designations of Satan than any other passage in the Bible. If I had only one or two verses to put the identity and work of Satan before you, it would be Revelation 12:9–10. Here it says, “And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent.” And remember what the Bible said in Genesis 3 about him: he’s subtle. He’s subtler than every beast. So it’s his subtlety that’s being focused on here, his serpent-like reality. “And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil [διάβολος: slanderer, liar, cheat] and Satan [adversary], the deceiver of the whole world.” I don’t think you can say anything more sweeping or more basic than the end of Revelation 12:9: “He is the deceiver of the whole world.” Verse 10: “The accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.” So at the center of Satan’s purpose is to deceive on earth and to accuse in heaven. If he can deceive you about God and Christ, you will perish. If he can successfully accuse you of unforgiven sin in heaven, you will perish. Jesus calls him “a murderer from the beginning” (John 8:44). The deception and the accusation and the eternal death that results from unforgiven sin is a way of destroying people and opposing God. Worldwide Battleground Josh asks me, “To what extent and by what means specifically does Satan influence the world?” My answer, therefore, is that the extent is worldwide and the means is deception." For the full article: Where Is Satan Most Visibly Active Today? | Desiring God “He destroys not mainly by the sword or disease or killing, but mainly by lying.”

Unfortunately, we have a government that seems bent on social engineering the country to fit it's own image of what it thinks Canada should be. That should not be the purpose of government. Perhaps it is the way a government goes when it has been in power too long.

Simply being a Canadian is being a loyalist because we are a Constitutional Monarchy. If you are a Canadian, you are a loyalist. There is no choice.

I have clearly said I am willing to discuss the subject rationally and peacefully. I think the only reason you came in here with BCSapper is to throw insults around. You knew I was talking about God or Satan with him and just couldn't resist.

You just described your modus operandi: name calling and insults. That's your choice but it really discredits everything you said. I never had a "hissy fit" as you claimed. I simply replied and you throw insults and name calling back. If you want to have a serious discussion, I am always willing.

What is the specific question? If you have a clear question, I would try to answer it.

The Bible describes Satan's history. In Isaiah in the Old Testament, there was once in the distant past before creation a chief angel in heaven called Lucifer. He reportedly rebelled against God and was kicked out of heaven. He took a third of the angels with him. After he was kicked out, he was given a new name, Satan. You see he thought he could replace God and this I believe is what his objective has been. He is the prince of this world. Many follow him and yet don't believe he exists. That is the way he likes it because he can then easily manipulate or influence the world.

Fair question. The introduction to the book I just mentioned on Kindle , Amazon says: "The world has been willing to comply with the wishes and projects of Satan to the extent of ceasing to believe that he really exists; this unbelief being most advantageous to his present undertakings. Yet the opinions of men have never changed the facts of revelation, and, according to Scripture, Satan exists; still possessed with great power and influence over the affairs of men--" Chafer, Lewis Sperry. The Biblical Doctrine of Satan (Annotated) . Exegetica Publishing. Kindle Edition.

I don't really care what your interests are. I simply point out what I believe. What you do with it is your business. Don't ever become a lawyer in a court. You will lose every time. You are asking a kind of question but I am not sure you are seriously asking. Are you being serious are sarcastic? You don't understand who God is and don't understand who Satan is. So how can we get past the starting point. You gave the impression you automatically dismiss anything to do with God. You modus operandi is to insult or mock. You would be wise to at least have a bare minimum of knowledge of what we are talking about. Without even a basic idea, how can anyone discuss anything about it or get past the starting point. You seem to very quick to reply with the answers, but not to interested in listening to anyone else.

Another fake claim. No proof, no evidence. Just dream up a phony claim and throw it out there. If you really want to know something about the Devil, go to Amazon and download the kindle book called "Satan" by Chafer. It is an interesting read and quite informative. Kindle price $0.99 . That's 99 cents. You can't lose and might learn a lot. The Biblical Doctrine of Satan (Annotated) eBook : Chafer, Lewis Sperry, Cone, Christopher, Scofield, C.I.: Amazon.ca: Kindle Store

You are an expert with obfuscation and making claims that nobody can prove one way or another. Frivolous allegations. Trying to debate that way is like a dog chasing his tail. Waste of time.

So you blame it on the Devil and don't accept any responsibility yourself? "The Devil made me do it". Pretty common saying.

Yes, I am sure many of them were not doing major evil things. But the Bible tells us everyone is a fallen sinner and needs to be born again. That's a central message of the Bible. Be born again and avoid going to hell. Even anyone who has not done vile serious sins or crimes, is still a sinner on the way to hell unless he is born again and receives forgiveness.

Most of the people in the western world nominally belonged to one of those three religions, either Jews, nominal Christians (Romanism) or Muslims. We are talking about hundreds of millions of people in the world.

History is not that simple. You can't just generalize about large segments of the population like that. Many things happened throughout history. I am sure there were a lot of people that did good things down through the ages. But there were a lot of bad things that happened even in the 20th century. Like the Third Riech, Nazis, Communist revolutions, and many genocides in parts of the world too. Man has after all a fallen, corrupt heart. The Bible tells us that when Adam and Eve rebelled against God, they and all their descendants received a fallen corrupt nature, including us.

It should also be mentioned that before the Reformation, ordinary people did not have a Bible. Bibles simply were only in the hands of church clergy and were written in Latin until after the 16th or 17th century. Rome even forbade its people from owning or reading Bibles until recent times. The Reformation in the 16th century and the invention of printing presses changed that for some people in Britain the northern Europe and parts of Germany, but that was a slow process over centuries. Not everyone escape the control of Rome either. Lots of bad things happened in the 16 to 19th centuries in parts of Europe; wars and brutality. People were just not as civilized and did not recognize human rights until relatively recently in the west.

I don't support any of those things that happened in history. It is all completely contrary to the Bible. People doing those kind of things were not Bible believers. That should be clear. Jesus never taught anyone to do those kind of things. As I have pointed out before, the Holy Roman Empire ruled the world for 1,500 years with an iron fist. Many of the followers of that system did rule the world brutally. One example is the Holy Roman Inquisition that lasted at least 400 years through the middle ages. Many other things happened like burning of witches. These things had nothing to do with what Jesus taught. I believe the Bible, not what those kind of people believed during the Holy Roman Empire. Lots of bad things happened in history in all kinds of places. We can't change history. I don't know of anyone in any church, including Romanist churches, today who would agree with any of those things you mentioned. That is just not the way it is in modern times. You really need to think and study a little. Digging up dirt from centuries ago and trying to link it to people today is ludicrous, especially since the Bible opposes all that. If one is truly following the Bible, they will not think anything like what you described is acceptable. It would be condemned. You may know I am very opposed to Romanism because it is contrary to the Bible to begin with. It is a man-made religion. So when you paint everyone with the same brush, you are not acting justly and should consider your thinking.

Beware of those who oppose or speak against the reality of God but claim to have the answers to everything. " 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." 2 Timothy 3:5 KJV "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:" 1 Peter 5:8 KJV

"7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction." Proverbs 1:7 KJV "6 A scorner seeketh wisdom, and findeth it not: but knowledge is easy unto him that understandeth." Proverbs 14:6 KJV I notice you comment on everything, but have no knowledge about the most basic and essential thing in the universe, God. How does that work when you profess to have the answer to everything?

Everything in the world has a religious connection, i.e. God. Nothing exists without God having created it. That includes man: "26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. " Genesis 1:26-28 KJV Aren't you glad God created you so you can live, breath, and talk on here?

Death and taxes for certain, but God also for certain. Just look around at the creation and you have to admit it could never happen without God.

There are some things that are 100% certain:- God, his written revelation, the Holy Bible, and death followed by judgment. see Hebrew 9:27 KJV Never say you were not warned.

Jesus was crucified on a cross by sinful men and paid the price for our sins, was raised from the dead the third day and now sitteth on the right hand of God interceding on our behalf till he comes again.

Why do you want to hug-a-criminal and let them go free? You don't make any sense as usual.