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The principal differences between male and female circumcision are the reasons and results. The perceived reason for male circumcision is hygienic. And it results in no dysfunction and no reduced pleasure from the act of sex. The reason for female circumcision is specifically to prevent girls/women from obtaining pleasure, which it is quite successful at. It is done out of a belief that females are whores if left to their own devices, and so their sexuality and everything about their bodies must be strictly controlled by the man of the family. By removing the clitoris the female will have much less interest in fornication and adultery and so will present less danger of dishonor to her family and will focus herself on her duties.

When future references are made to TransCanada cancelling energy east, it will be recalled that this disastrous decision was made while Justin Trudeau and his Liberals were in government. They will not be left unscathed.

Do to interference from the liberals, trans canada has quit. But this remark from Carr is interesting. ''Mr. Carr said Ottawa's job is to regulate in Canada. He added the Liberals are not prepared to engage in a "race to the bottom" to match environmental regulations in Venezuela or Saudi Arabia.'' So without pipelines I guess that is where our oil will come from. lol

You guys haven't actually read the decision. The judge spells out what the Gov.of.Canada should have done - by the Gov.of.Canada's own reckoning to boot: and so the judge concludes that Canada had a duty to consult. This duty, that the Government was aware of, went unfulfilled from 1965 when the practice began to 1980 when the Feds finally took up their duty. Theres much more in the decision that explains this and why the failure of the Governments common-law duty to natives resulted in harm. Thus the settlement. Folks should actually read this decision and not jump to a bunch of conclusions about what they think it says.

Lol stop that. No Di on the first one, and forgive my snot tone its not meant to be when I am responding to you I sound like a snot face, what I am saying is how do we answer why crimes are done without analyzing their motive...that's the point I and others are making. The others have said the same thing. Now I tell you what. If I ever have the audacity to compare my removal of foreskin to a mutilated clitoris I deserve to have you kick me in the testes. That said I am trying to be careful here. I am well aware its not just practiced by Muslims and for that matter I do not claim its wide spread all over the Muslim world although I am aware of its practice in Northern Africa and Somalia. I did believe it or not go to a conference on such practices as part of training in the job I was in. Abusive practices are brought with people based on their culture and religion. We all know that. The issue I have is if the message we give them is an unrealistic one about adjusting such practices once they get to Canada, they will persist. Its about cultural and religious values that continue to motivate people's behaviour and actions that clash with Canadian laws. In Israel the family laws allow Muslims and Jews and Christians to opt out to their own religious courts. Because of that certain kinds of domestic violence and discrimination against women over property rights disputes arise with existing Israeli family laws for non religious citizens which is the majority of Israeli Jews in Israel. This opt out system has made it easier for certain kinds of abusive behaviour against children and women to continue to placate orthodox religious beliefs of all 3 religions. Let me give you another example. When I do a group session some men will justify their hitting or pushing their wife saying in their religion/culture that's how its done. They openly question our criminal and family laws and see no need to change to conform to them. I hear it. I listen to it. I have to challenge it and tell these men, you aint in Pakistan, youy aint in India, you aint in....whatever. To deny their is no correlation or over look the cause and effect of such values being brought over is not logical in understanding and trying to contain such behaviours. In the Somali community in Canada its still being done back in Somalia and in Canada and by untrained women. I've seen the girls when they are done with them. Many of them hemmorage so bad they are lucky to live. Others grow up mutilated with horrendous scars. Its all done in the name of their religion. I am not talking cosmetic surgery. Tell that to the ignoramus Ghost. This is not about ear piercings or removing skin. Its about deliberately mutilating genitilia to prevent women from any vaginal sensation. The fact I even have to explain that on this forum to Ghost is ridiculous. Is it the same as the Burka. Well no. Wearing a Burka does not mutilate anything but its part and parcel of a value system I don't agree with and its not just in Islam as I have said. I reject absolutely the Orthodox Jewish concept that sex should not be pleasurable and you only do it to reproduce. I have a problem with many religions that teach the body is evil and sex is evil. I also think absolutely mainstream Islam and Orthodox Judaism have values I reject out in the open about sex and women and why-because if someone did that to my daughter I would kill them. You know I am always gonna be honest with you with these topics and say it like it is which is what I am doing. I just think sometimes you are a bit soft on certain things Islam can lead to in terms of behaviour. I get you on not unfairly stereotyping I really do, but on this kind of stuff, uh I make no bones in saying some things I am not going to respect or show tolerance for. I don't claim to be a liberal. I try be respectful but hell no not on specific religious practices like female circumcision. By the way knowing what I know about cervical rates of cancer in women and the correlation to a reduction in it with circumcised males, I would do it even if I was not Jewish. Also lol, I do not believe in ear piercings and tattoos for basic personal reasons. I don't impose that on anyone. Hell people diddle with their bodies. Who cares. Lol I had a great friend who was an English teacher and he pierced his breasts and his magic wand and when I was in the shower with him and others after a work out I had everyone laughing because I was repeating to him over and over, "that's just wrong son, its just wrong wrong wrong take those damn things out before you get them caught in yer zipper. I am sorry Dialamah but turning one's ding a long into a shower curtain rod is just wrong you know? You better be friggin laughing. This topic has gone to the dogs and Besty is probably gonna wash my mouth out with soap.

Happy Thanksgiving to all here and to the rest of the world! My sons said no cooking for u mom, let have Chinese and order in!!! BTW, my two sons were born in October and I call them my two TURKEYS! naturally they don't like it!

What's the point? Fgm s only purpose is to reduce sexual pleasure for women....quite different than for men. Another tool to keep women under your thumb if that's your thing.

When people break the law and commit crimes for non-religious reasons, they know what they're doing is wrong. (Barring mental illness.) When I speed or jaywalk, I am well aware that what I'm doing is wrong/illegal and I accept that if I get caught, there will be consequences, justly deserved. I know WHY these things are wrong/illegal and I agree they should be, even if I occasionally speed or jaywalk. That is not the case when breaking the law is done for religious reasons. When people break the law for religious reasons they are putting their religious beliefs above the law, they are saying, they do not agree with the law and are saying they don't agree it should be illegal. They don't agree it is wrong and they don't care about the consequences because in their mind, they've done the RIGHT thing. When those religious beliefs are based on stone age interpretations of ancient books written by people who had no knowledge of modern advancements in medicine, this is especially egregious. As Sapper as said before, it is especially a waste of humanity. This is why many make the distinction between crime and religiously motivated crime. You see no difference. You feel religious rights are a nobler reason to break the law and many feel it is the worst reason to break the law, especially non-religious type people. I can understand someone who steals to feed their family if they are in dire straights. I don't understand someone who breaks the law because a religion tells them to. This is a lot more preventable. Its just sad and pathetic.

And dont use any anaesthetic.

Why is it difficult for you to say some people engage in female circumcision because of their strong religious and cultural beliefs that come into conflict with existing Canadian laws and they choose their religious and cultural beliefs over the laws of Canada? How hard is that to say? Why do you avoid the connection and try skirt around it?

I took a look at your link. It says " "The uncontroverted evidence of the plaintiff's experts is that the loss of their Aboriginal identity left the children fundamentally disoriented, with a reduced ability to lead healthy and fulfilling lives. The loss of Aboriginal identity resulted in psychiatric disorders, substance abuse, unemployment, violence and numerous suicides," he said, siding with the plaintiffs. " I don't agree that Canadian taxpayers are responsible for all these problems. The fact is these same problems exist equally among natives living on reserves and off reserves, who were never taken by social services and placed in foster homes. So why did they focus strictly on the so-called "scooped children"? Because that was what the court case was all about and that was the evidence presented by the "plaintiff's experts". They were not looking at the broader situation of the native population in Canada because they were only trying to make a case for the "scooped children". You have to understand how lawyers operate in court cases and only bring "experts" to support their side of the case. They were not looking at the reality that the same problems exist with the rest of the native population. There is something like 90% unemployment on reserves, widespread substance abuse, a greater proportion of native offenders in prisons, dysfuntional families, sexual abuse, murders, and many suicides of native people. These people were never adopted. How would you explain that fact? There are probably a variety of reasons why many natives have these problems. It could be partly due to the change in lifestyle of natives in the last few hundred years as they evolved from the previous system of living off the land to the reserve system after the coming of Europeans to north America. It could be related to the reserve system. It could be a lack of education and job opportunities, which are few on reserves. Dysfunctional family problems could be a kind of inherited social problem. For whatever reason they have the same problems whether some were adopted by white families or not. That is just an excuse to bilk taxpayers for hundreds of millions of dollars. Canadians taxpayers already support natives with billions of dollars a year through the department of aboriginal affairs budget for native bands. This could have more to do with buying votes and part of Trudeau's misguided efforts toward "reconciliation". Another expensive squandering of taxpayer money and an attempt to divide and conquer.

Excuse me while I interrupt this little ignorant circle jerk here with some reality. Guess who has been ranked #1 as the best country to do business? Here is a hint: It's a leftist (socialist/communist - eh Betsy?), immigrant/refugee loving country, which is falling apart (right Betsy?): https://www.forbes.com/best-countries-for-business/list/#tab:overall Canada sits 10th in the world. Sorry Trudeau-hating whiners.

The price of oil deserves a mention here. It's part of the story.

No, it wasn't. People do things that are illegal and to ask why FGM is happening in Canada "if it's illegal" is a stupid question. The push to make "Muslim" crime a special category all it's own is just more of the anti-Islamic rhetoric.

You do, eh? And do you also see the rise of women wearing burkas and hijabs in Egypt as a 'pushback'? Perhaps to oppression of those Coptic Christians they despise?

And why not? Again, so easy to just throw money away. I think the lack of incentive for politicians and bureaucrats to spend money wisely is one of the biggest problems with modern democracy.

Convicted war criminal Omar Khadr got a lot more than these native victims....no surprise there.

But it's so easy to throw away other people's money. Politicians have absolutely no incentive to spend money wisely. Any possible consequences are for future generations to deal with, long after their political careers are over.

If you look into it you will find that the situation on reserves was totally desperate. Their rationale for removing the children from reserves was to save them from slow death by starvation and disease. Schools were run in a manner that was considered typical in those days. White children were also beaten with objects, eg. the "strap". Kids were abused physically, mentally, and sometimes sexually. However that does not mean that school was like a prison or torture chamber. Video footage shows children playing, smiling, laughing, wearing ribbons and doing things we would call quite normal. Anyway what I heard this morning was a number of natives speaking out, saying no amount of compensation can ever help them. This is not about money, and they are not satisfied. They talk about wanting "healing". In that case, this money has been completely wasted. The government just took a wad of cash and threw it at them in the hopes the issue can be put to rest, but it's clear it won't be. A useless Liberal solution. Mindlessness. Reactionary. That 800 Mill could have done a lot of good if it had been used for something else.

Your question is too broad to be answered succinctly. It depends on the circumstances, and such matters are never simple. Secondly I'm not aware of Canada employing any puppet dictators. If you give specific examples I might try to answer, but then it needs a new thread because it is not on topic. So basically your obtuse question cannot be answered. -> You figure Islamophobia just happens in some sort of narrow confined space all on its own with nothing else at all going on around or before it? I know it already existed in Canada way back in the 60's and 70's. What you are implying if I read between the lines in your post (lots of room there...) is that everything has cause and effect, we did bad things to them and now it's their turn. I don't think Canada has done much of anything. Canada provides financial aid to those regions where people live in poverty without education or health care. I think that's the most significant part of our history in relation to the Middle East. I am in favour of an approach that helps refugees, but not by bringing everyone here. If possible keep them living in their homelands. United Nations should establish safe zones for refugees in places like Syria. You conflate by connecting dots between my criticism of specific barbarous cultural practices and Islamophobia.

I normally get paid to do instructing so I'll have to let you flail around on your own.

I live in a world where your humour is called passive aggression. Some of your earlier comments were well said. Don't assume you know some of the men on this board you think you can ridicule. You don't know us. You do not know what we think. I grew up in a world where women have to serve in the military They have no choice. I also live in a world where mothers have their children taken from them by terror cells at night and they are beaten or shot if they resist. I come from a world where young women strap bombs to themselves, and would engage in terrorism with zero problems. I come from a world where women serve and put their lives on the line. Sense of humour. Don't talk to me about how I joke with other women. You would not understand. To get to the point to make the comments you said you will have to do a lot more than sitting on your sheltered ass making assumptions about how enlightened you are compared to the men you think you ridicule.

Now the left is lying thru their teeth about this. First they say that had nothing to do with the decision and second they are saying it is bitchumen ,where it is oil . 1.2 million people out of work and the green party thinks keeping them jobless is great news for canada. Can't wait for the next election.