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Just stop already. Do a little research first before typing. 2017 immigration targets: 173k through the economic class (these are skilled workers and business applicants) 84k through the family class (these are 75% spousal/children + 25% parents sponsorship - side note: Before howling about parents/gparents sponsorship, now, Canada only allows 10K parents sponsorship applications to be processed a year - the rest are the ones sitting in the backlog) 43k through the refugee program Here is the source: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/notices/2016-10-31.asp Conclusion is that MANY people, especially those who are against immigration, just don't know WHAT they are talking about. My ill feeling is that ignorant people form an opinion on immigration, without really understanding how it really works.

Nothing you've posted contradicts anything I've said. Well, about 40,000 are skilled workers and business applicants. The rest are family members. And the numbers are divided among the various visa centres in the numbers I've already stated. That's on top of the billions we're spending on refugees. Oh, only 10,000 seniors! Why, that's nothing at all! Merely 100,000 foreigners over the course of a decade entitled to health care, welfare and pensions they never paid for. In 2013 the cost of each immigrant senior we brought in was stated as $300,000. That's $3 BILLION to pay for the seniors we let in this year alone. And of course, $3 billion more next year, and the next, and the next. Which is greater than the numbers coming in under express entry, which is what I SAID. In 2016, almost 34,000 invitations to apply for permanent residence were issued to Express Entry candidates representing an increase of 3,000 from 2015. Since the launch of Express Entry, a total of 43,202 individuals (applicants and their families) have been admitted to Canada as permanent residents. And you're one of them.

Some of MacDonald's views were reprehensible but he was a Canada's first Prime Minister and and architect of Confederation, not a general fighting to break up the country. If he hadn't pushed for the CPR to be built, I would probably be living in a US state right now. He is the biggest single reason the country extends from coast to coast. Washington, Jefferson and other US founders were slave holders as well but they fought to build a country, not tear it apart.

It is less likely, but not improbable given the methods that Putin used. It is not a foregone conclusion that Ukraine would have launched nuclear strikes against Russia or invading forces, or even threatened to do so given the politics of those regions. Nuclear weapons are a deterrent for principally other NBC weapons attacks. Depends on other factors related to demonstrated capability and delivery systems. Israel would not hesitate to extinguish such a regional threat. To be effective as a deterrent, a nuclear weapons capability must be credible, reliable, and survivable. Except when it can't, including the United States. Conventional attacks by state actors and terrorists are still common against nuclear weapons nations. The DPRK already had/has a massive conventional forces deterrent staged to wipe out Seoul and other parts of South Korea.

I would like to add my opinion on one thing; I don't a moderator should hope for a member's death. It seems a tad bias to me.

Trudeau puffed up before the world, and showed himself the opposite of the globally "unpopular" Trump. There's no denying that he was craving the compliments and accolade - thinking that it puts him before the world stage as an excellent example of a world leader (thanks to the urgings of Obama/Biden and Merkel). So Justin spread out the welcome mat, through his tweet (after Trump issued the travel ban), and on-stage during Canada Day celebration. And now, Haitians (and others), are pouring into Canada. What Trudeau neglected to point out was the "fine print." It isn't as easy as you think. According to a lawyer for Haitian asylum-seekers...... If you hadn't applied refugee status in the first safe country you landed on (USA), you are automatically unqualified to apply for asylum in Canada. By coming to Canada, you just barred yourself from getting any asylum! In other words, if Canada follows the rule, these poor folks are all out of luck. Thanks to Trudeau. Will they be able to go back to the USA? I don't know. Our news channels are saying that a lot of Haitians are coming here primarily due to the invitation that Trudeau had issued. Despite that......... Did Justin Trudeau ever come out - issue a public statement - to clear things up for other would-be refugees? I haven't heard anything from him. Have you? Put yourself in Trudeau's shoes. After all that chest-puffing, how can he pull the plug now? He'll lose face before the whole wide world if he goes back on his word. It'll make him look so foolish if he comes out now saying, "Uh, about the invitation to all........uh, not everyone is actually guaranteed to be made welcome. Uh.....I forgot to say....uh......that there's......uhh......some caveat to the invitation." I'm betting, come hell or high water............we'll just have to welcome everyone.

It has been escalating steadily since Berkely. You didn't notice? I mentioned the street fighting to you a while ago. There are videos of similar violent confrontations across the US all over Youtube. Most are between the far left and Trump supporters. This is the first one I've seen between the far left and white supremacists - though typically Antifa calls everyone a racist and a Nazi if they support trump or oppose Islam. Taxme's idiotic theories are hardly a substantive cause for deciding murder won't be condemned. It has been condemned by a wide array of Republicans. I was actually surprised even FOX has been actively and roundly condemning not only the murder but all the white supremacists and their behaviour.

Trump has almost as many supporters as he had before the election according to the polls. If they're all Nazis the world is in trouble. I didn't say all the Left is, but clearly there is a deep reluctance to offer up criticism of those who act to violently suppress free speech, as long as their targets are Nazis and white supremacists. The problem is that laws don't allow for singular exceptions. If anyone gets to decide this or that speech shouldn't be protected because it offends, then everyone's speech can be banned because it offends.

No Argus. You posted an article from a non-government blog site FROM 2006. I have posted information from the Canadian Immigration site that shows targets for 2017. Permanent Residents coming from an overwhelming majority of the skills programs (Federal Skilled Worker, Canadian Experience Class, Skilled Trades, Provincial Nominee, Quebec Skilled Worker, majority of the provincial entrepreneur program) ARE NOT SELECTED BASED ON THEIR COUNTRY OR THEIR VISA OFFICE. It's all about the points. People are selected from a ONE POOL, based on how many points they have. You have had it all wrong. It's time to come to terms with that.

If I am an illegal in the US and I hear Trump saying he will deport me, of course I am going to head to Canada. We have a Prime Minister making it clear he will not turn anyone away. The vast majority of the surge of migrants are not refugees they are in fact blocking refugees from coming as well as legitimate immigrants. They are blocking them both out as they jump ahead in line. In fact the current policies has first and foremost the most negative and direct impact on legitimate political refugees and legitimate legal immigrantion applicants as both are being crushed and prevented from being able to come to Canada as this surge floods our borders. Trudeau is an idiot. He never gave anything thought to the implications of an open door policy. He gave no thought or planning as to its impact on refugees or immigrants. None. What his open door policy has done is collapse the refugee system enabling illegal migrants to be able to pose as refugees enter the refugee system, collapse it and make it impossible to enforce. The back log on refugee applicants is such that the delay in providing hearings will enable illegals to plead the charter to avoid any hearings at all. In the interim legitimate refugees who did apply now no longer have support as its gone to illegal migrants. Iillegal migrants speak neither English or French and have no transferable skills. This means for a minimum of one generation they will go onto welfare and require social housing. Our federal government has not coordinated with cities and provincial and municipal governments to assure social housing and medical services is in place. Let's be clear. 90% of illegal migrants are heading to Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal with 10% headed to other cities and none to rural areas. None of these migrants bring skills required to enter or augment complement or replace the work force. Illegal migrants crowd into cities in substandard housing and form ghettoes of unassimilated, unemployed people who then will manifest what happens to marginalized people who can't assimilate, they will drink, do drugs, engage in domestic violence, high rates of reproduction and soaring rates of mental illness and suicide. They will strain already drained hospitals of any resources treating not just their mental illnesses but higher rates of diabetes, heart disease and cancer all caused by their poor lifestyles. They also bring particularly from Pakistan and the Muslim world a high rate of first cousin marriages which brings a particular strain of mental illness and congenital diseases that only show up in adults as they hit their 30's or 40's causing them to become disabled and unable to fend for themselves. The surge of illegal migrants floods schools where our education system has been watered down to a level of rampant illiteracy to accommodate the thousands of new students who sit and stare and can't speak English and rely on a fellow student to translate for them. What we have is an increase of marginalized ghettoes, pockets of individuals with no transferable skills who can not speak English or French. Trudeau's fantasy world ignores the native impact of illegal migrants on our medical and educational systems let alone direct sociological phenomena caused by over-crowding in cities including crime, domestic violence, gridlock, mental illness. Immigration unless its planned and carefully organized ad screened and monitored constantly fuels social breakdown. Trudeau's disasterous approach to immigration will cause emotional turmoil, social upheaval, urban break down, and phenomena no different then what we see in Europe or the US. One can only hope the blithering incompetence of Trudeau gets his ass thrown out next election.

Almost 50,000 refugees and dismal employment/assimilation percentages. Next year more of the same. Hardly an ill feeling . Fact is, ignorant people who don't know the facts don't care how it works or affects Canadians http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/integration-still-a-challenge-for-syrian-refugees-one-year-later-researchers-1.3328739

These Nazi/White Nationalist groups have always have their rallies, nothing new about that. The problem is that in the last couple years, these people have seen their religion trampled, their flags taken away and now their monuments taken, essentially, their culture is being taken from them. To them General Lee was more than a racist and their confederate flag means more than "oppression of black people". Now, I have no sympathy for the White Nationalist groups to be sure, but I also don't think it's helpful to have radical leftist groups show up with clear intent to riot. Now, the problem is that the media and democrats have decided to give "permission" for violence against the White Nationalist group. The left has pushed too far, too fast and what happened yesterday is the result. Again, I don't agree with any hate group, but I can see how things have escalated, not only yesterday, but at every rally since Trumps presidency. This is not Trumps fault any more than the Scalise shooting was Bernie's fault. If one was to watch the events of the other day without knowing which side held which view, it would obvious that the Antifa group was the aggressor.

The anti fascists acted in a fascist manner, negating the fact they call themselves anti fascist. Argus explained it very well. Famous saying. "Even a serial killer thinks he's a good guy". Or something like that. Someone claiming to be anti fascist shutting down free speech is still a fascist, no matter what he thinks.

Expectation - Observation = Frustration What seems a logical way of thinking for you may not seem logical for others. For instance, my mother was frustrated with my grandmother one time while doing dishes after supper and asked my grandmother, "Why are your pots and pans in so many different cupboards? Why don't you keep them all together?" Seems logical, right? My grandmother answered, " I'm 85 years old and I can't reach the high cupboards anymore. So I keep the things I use often where they're easy to reach. Things I don't use as often, I put where it doesn't matter." Also logical, yes? My mother had Expectations about what she felt was logical. But she failed to Observe my grandmother's situation. So she experienced Frustration. They Discussed it and saw that both sides had logical points.

On the contrary. He shows the same contempt for those who disagree with him as his dad, and the same complete disregard for the importance of balancing the budget, the same willingness to throw federal dollars at anything that might get him elected, and the same affection for leftist dictatorships.

So slavery is dandy for Washington and Jefferson as long as they were "building a country" ? "Building a country" = revolutionary war, slavery, "genocide", stolen land, broken treaties, etc. Robert E. Lee was also "building a country".

Yes we should.

And Sir John A MacDonald built Canada, but he also called natives savages and felt it was a good idea to take their children and educate them in our ways so they would be quicker to assimilate. Should we remove all statues and monuments of Sir John A? Washington had slaves, too. So did Jefferson. That was a part of history.

I don't think there is an attempt to change history here, just define what belongs in the historical record and what belongs on public memorials. This is for Americans to decide. Lee was an exceptional soldier and by all accounts a decent man for his age, but the fact remains, he fought for a cause that wanted to keep human beings enslaved.

If you read the OP on the topic "The ill feeling between left and right on immigration' it describes the way the Left - generally what social scientists call 'open' people, feel about traditions and national institutions. Basically, they have no respect for either, or at least, don't care about either. Closed people, ie, conservatives, do place importance on traditions, history and national institutions. You see rumblings of this over the native issue here in Canada, where the progressives keep wanting to erase names from history because they think those people weren't politically correct. There is a move from some to even erase John A MacDonald from our history because he said nasty things about natives and supported assimilating them. The Left doesn't care about nationalism or even the nation state.

Oh Argus, I agree with you! All these hoopla about Trump's response is ridiculous! Trump is right! Both sides are guilty! And I say, Charlottesville officials are to blame for this. Trump is looking like the Biblical Solomon in his wisdom, when compared to all his detractors - who are all off the mark! You may not agree with someone's message, but in the USA, they have the right to speak up! They have the right to rally/protest. If I understood it right, the supremacists had that rally planned for months. The counter-protesters seems to be in their face - why would they want to try to suppress someone's right to express? Charlottesville officials should've already seen the writings on the wall when they allowed both groups to rally at the same time, and at the same place! It's a very volatile issue that would've been exploited by anarchists. Charlottesville should've made them rally at different days, or locations. The way they had them set up was that any ultra-right protester had to go through the counter-protesters to get to the location allotted for the ultra-right. That's stupid!

What did the anti fascists do to warrant Trump's criticism? The fascists drove a car into the crowd.

I didn't really find anything wrong with Trump's statement. Here's why. The views of the white nationalists/supremacists are stupid and offensive. Tough. People are allowed to have stupid, offensive views. I don't often quote jurists but Oliver Wendel Holmes got it right. “If there is any principle of the Constitution that more imperatively calls for attachment than any other it is the principle of free thought — not free thought for those who agree with us but freedom for the thought that we hate.” We do not, in other words, have free speech to protect speech which is popular and inoffensive. That sort of speech does not require any protection. We have free speech to protect speech which is offensive, unpopular and distasteful. So this group with stupid views wanted to hold a march and a demo in a park. They got a permit. All is good. Then there was this other group from the far left. They could not disagree more strenuously with Holmes or with the concept of freedom of speech, assembly, and thought. As far as they are concerned only speech they agree with should be allowed. So they organized and set out with the well-stated goal of preventing the other group from having their march and demo. And they came equipped with clubs, chains, pepper spray, helmets, shields and body armor. That they call themselves anti-fascists yet espouse the behavior of fascists is ironic, but immaterial. They are the cause of the violence in Charlottesville. The duty of the police was to keep them away from the white supremacists. The police failed, and the white supremacists never got to hold their demo. What will probably happen next is the white supremacists will apply for another permit. The city will refuse. It will go to court. The city will lose. Hopefully the police will be better organized for the next march, perhaps arresting many of the 'anti-facist' organizers and confiscating their weaponry before the demo takes place. Now I'm not defending the white supremacists. Their views are moronic and they're a violent bunch and probably have a lot of sub-literate cretins among them - much like that idiot who drove his car into the other side. They also came equipped to fight, knowing who they'd be facing. But they have a right to their views and their demo in a free society. Again, the failure here is of the police in keeping the groups separated.

She's right and clearly more patient too. Ya'll expect too much - it's going to take at least a generation for reforms maybe two. It just is what it is.

We did that in the stampede to sign on to globalization. Recall how we were told the rising tide would lift all boats? We just need a bigger boat is all.

I thought it was Virginia? I any case according to Trump there's no place in America for the bigotry and hate he says many sides put on display today. Presumably everyone involved in today's clash was in the wrong and he doesn't want to take sides. Perhaps he fancies himself as some sort of great centrist.

I think it's unconscionable that we expect a borderless world as far as things like our money and corporations go but not human beings - who were still people too last time I looked. This economic diaspora was predicted back when globalization was feted as the best thing since sliced bread. To bad we built a global economy first without a global government to help minimize its impact and make it more just. We deserve what we've helped sow. Same goes for climate change and conflict refugees - the lines around all of them are becoming so blurred it's hardly worth trying to distinguish between them.

And we saw how that turned out for Ukraine. How much was their guarantee of territorial integrity worth when push came to shove? Not much. If Ukraine had its Soviet era nuclear arsenal, it is unlikely Putin would ever have sought conflict there. Would the US have been so eager to intervene in Iraq if it had functional nuclear weapons? Would NATO have gone into Libya if it had nuclear weapons? Nope. Nothing is guaranteed, but there is no arguing that nukes are a huge deterrent. That will perhaps become less so as the US and other nations develop credible missile defense systems that could be trusted to intercept ICBMs or other nuclear warhead delivery methods with a high degree of certainty. But until then, any nation that finds itself at odds with the international community can hold no better trump card than a nuclear weapons capability.

They are coming in at the rate of around 300 a day. Faith Goldie from The REbel Media counted 15 an hour, which is 360 a day. These people have not been screened and I think it is fair to conclude they are economic migrants, fleeing poverty. An immigration lawyer on CBC PnP was asked what he thinks about allowing them to stay because of poverty. He thought they should be allowed to stay. He was asked if that would open the floodgates. He had no answer. We know what the answer is. Canada takes in a certain number of "refugees" a year and a large percentage of immigrants are allowed in after having been screened for their education, skills, language ability, etc. to determine whether they will be able to support themselves and be a net asset to Canada. If we bring in too many people who have to be put on welfare indefinitely, it could break our social services safety net, which is designed to protect Canadians. There is no way Canada can just open the floodgates and allow thousands of people to come in to get on welfare. We simply can't afford it without threatening everything we have such as old age pensions, health care, social assistance, unemployment insurance, and infrastructure.

JFK made a lot more mistakes culminating in the Cuban Missile Crisis, including a sponsored invasion of Cuba. Kennedy brought the world far closer to thermonuclear war than anything Trump has done to date. Canada's DND discounted the prime minister and his cabinet, quietly following the Americans to DEFCON 3 before any official Canadian decision was made. President Trump had no role in the development of DPRK nukes/missiles, he is just the latest U.S. president to be faced with the same issue.

For lazy people, I would like to reiterate that this topic was not intended to merely discuss immigration, but to discuss the personality behind the support and opposition to immigration. It is based on a lecture from Jonathan Haidt, a social scientist. Haidt puts our sense of social morality into five distinct categories. Harm/care (protecting from harm, caring for the helpless) Fairness/reciprocity Ingroup/loyalty (tribal feelings, affinity for and loyalty to the group Authority/respect Purity/sanctity Open people ie liberals, only embrace the first two, and generally place little value or even oppose the last three. Closed people, ie conservatives, embrace all five. So it's not that they don't value harm/care and fairness/reciprocity, but they have these other values which they take into consideration. So now we look at how open people will treat immigration vs closed people. Open people love diversity, change (even if it causes chaos) and novelty. They don't have much respect for traditions and don't have much group loyalty. Conservatives are almost the opposite. They embrace group loyalty and respect for institutions and traditions. So if masses of immigrants from wildly different cultures are brought to Canada on a continuing basis, open people love it. They have no care or concern for how that might dammage or diminish our traditional institutions since they don't have much respect for them to begin with. Their care and concern, aside from loving the change and novelty, is an earnest desire to help those foreigners, be they immigrants or refugees, to lead a better life here. Conservatives place much higher value on our traditions and on loyalty to the group. They like things more or less the way they are and don't want our 'tribe' swamped by members of other tribes. They fear chaos and a lack of order. Since 'open' people( those on the left) place no real importance on the concerns which affect 'closed' people (those on the right) they tend to simply dismiss their concerns as racism or xenophobia. Conservatives, in turn, tend to regard the enthusiasm for immigration/refugees from those on the Left as the result of short sighted idiocy, with overtones of treason (betrayal of the need to be loyal to and protect the grou

These nations possessed yet relinquished nuclear weapons in exchange for internal and external objectives: Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, and South Africa. Brazil, Argentina, Iraq, and Libya dismantled their nuclear weapons programs voluntarily or were forced to do so. Japan, Germany, and South Korea also gave up their nuclear bomb aspirations, but retain the capability to develop nukes, as do other nations. Other nations depend on the forward deployment of bombs from other nations (e.g. U.S. controlled nuclear warheads in NATO countries). Many more nations would logically develop nuclear weapons if they are a guaranteed deterrent to external threats, but even existing nuclear powers have still been attacked by external conventional forces.

The DPRK is not just a U.S. or Trump problem, but Trudeau is about as useless as tits on a bull.

Google fired him for PR reasons mostly I believe. The employee's words were controversial but he has a pretty good case now that he's planning to bring google to court over the firing.

How much are you willing to sacrifice so that we do not do deals like this? Are you willing to surrender your job? Your house? What are you personally willing to pay? You're asking that all the hundreds of men and women whose jobs depend on this sort of sale to give up their jobs because it makes YOU uncomfortable. Don't you think that is more than a little arrogant? Note that I have written many times that I detest the Saudi regime. Nonetheless, I'm not naive enough to believe that our refusal to sell them armored vehicles would have the slightest impact on their behaviour or on their military abilities. They would simply shrug and buy them from the US or UK or France or Russians or whomever. Furthermore, everything we buy from China helps profit the Chinese regime, which uses those moneys to build up its military to help it control its citizens and threaten its neighbours. How is that any different from selling armored vehicles to the Saudis?

Some leader. So he really does follow the last person who spoke to him.

Trump wanted/needed a friend. And of course Trudeau couldn't pat Donald on the head lest that silly mop fall off.

Nope, there are some pretty solid treaties where I live. They're probably the biggest economic driver hereabouts too. And I still get shit for supporting them.

Figured you'd welch - it's always about you.

I stopped killing fish and joined an fishery enhancement society almost 10 years ago. So stfu already.

Whose this we you're taking about exactly?

Except when people do speak up about that they just as routinely get shit on for doing so as routinely you're shitting on Israel's critics here. That its the same sort of people doing all this shitting on critics should be no surprise to anyone You all really need to just stfu.

You are what you eat. And we're no better than our lowest allies.

Bully for you. The moral and ethical background you also toss into the salad you make out of all the facts stuffed into your head turns it all into a big pile of crap.

Look at you, eschewing oil to avoid being friends with a dictator. So where were you in 1953? Oh right,,,hiding under your bed from us lefties.

I guess we'll see when the oil is all gone, until then bff's it is.

Political convenience - grist for our domestic election campaigns. Without oil they'll need to invade someone for their resources...thereby maintaining a vital market for our weapons industry.

And if there's one thing Muslim fundies have most in common with infidels it's the hate that infidels have for each other.

Not if this steers the US and Russia towards a collision course and brings us full circle again. Dictators will remain our bff's until we finally convert to form ourselves in the name of 'protecting' ourselves from the never-ending windstorm of blowback our relations cause. That it's all in the name of the fear of tyranny is truly the most hilarious irony of this Brobdingnagian clusterfuck. Rinse and repeat just doesn't quite say it but neither does told you so. Oh well. FIFY

I suspect its rather ronery having that lock. https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiRw_fM1bnTAhVDzmMKHR9ABlYQ3ywIJjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DUEaKX9YYHiQ&usg=AFQjCNHXkyEgLE_7-8Xdr99FfG-YOMcgrg