I have a question on Countries governed by Black governments.

[Guest Peeves]

How many are countries where you would chose to live, or, that you would consider to be law abiding, democratic, and responsible to the citizens?

Now I'm not suggesting that Western democracies are perfect, far be it, but many Black countries get millions or billions over the years and end up like Haiti or dictators like Robert Mugabe the President of Zimbabwe. What's the problem ? Our fault? How many decades,generations go by before it's their own responsibility?

I read now of a country like Trinidad (bin there.)

Mixed races, good economy, but violence,criminal activity reign. As a former British-French-Dutch- Spanish protectorate these countries had a strong basic lawful background to start from.What happened? I'd be afraid to walk the street now in Port Of Spain, or for that matter Jamaica or most others. Now Mexico is the arm pit for Canadian tourists. What a world.

'Course, not much better in some Western cities..sections thereof...or neighborhoods. I guess we don't appreciate what we have.

[Michael Hardner]

Not a bigoted question ? If you say so, but what is a 'black government' ?

Do you mean, like the US ? Yes, I would live there.

[Bonam]

How many are countries where you would chose to live, or, that you would consider to be law abiding, democratic, and responsible to the citizens?

Now I'm not suggesting that Western democracies are perfect, far be it, but many Black countries get millions or billions over the years and end up like Haiti or dictators like Robert Mugabe the President of Zimbabwe. What's the problem ? Our fault? How many decades,generations go by before it's their own responsibility?

It's already their responsibility. Always has been.

[Topaz]

Would civilized country really KNOW if they had a dicator government, if that gov't ruled very cunningly? I think there's many things going on behind the scenes that those countries citizen aren't aware of and the fact that most of those citizens would have the attitude, MY country wouldn't do that, make it easy for a government to act very much against the high moral values of those countries. I think those countries with Black leaders just put everything out in the open compared to those other countries.

[Wild Bill]

Not a bigoted question ? If you say so, but what is a 'black government' ?

Do you mean, like the US ? Yes, I would live there.

I think what he's really getting at is not so much "black government" as primitive, ignorant and/or unsophisticated government, Michael.

The confusion comes because so many of the examples are predominantly black populations, at least in Africa. The blacks are oppressed, they rise up and take over. Unfortunately, they can't run things properly and a once prosperous country becomes a basket case.

This happens regardless of race. Most colony countries have become virtually primitive after receiving their independence. Their people were simply not well enough educated in large enough numbers to properly run things!

India is a good example. After the Brits pulled out the country became a joke! Nothing worked because no one was skilled at managing or performing maintenance. The electricity, the water services, the telephones, all fell apart and became hit or miss. Corruption in the civil service became rampant.

It took 50 years for India to adapt and overcome their problems! Today, things are relatively modern and well run, no better or worse than any other developed country. Still Michael, it was 50 years!

Look at the pitiful state of Zimbabwe. Or Tanganyika. Zimbabwe was once one of the most prosperous countries in Africa! Or South Africa! As black rule becomes more entrenched the economy keeps sliding.

Again, this is not truly a racial thing. It happens and will happen in any undeveloped country or one that has been run by some outside culture. You can't pull out the folks who know how to do anything all at once and expect those left to be able to cope!

[Michael Hardner]

I think what he's really getting at is not so much "black government" as primitive, ignorant and/or unsophisticated government, Michael.

Right. I think he originally said it wasn't a bigoted question... you're confirming that indeed it was.

[Shady]

Right. I think he originally said it wasn't a bigoted question... you're confirming that indeed it was.

I think that a knee-jerk reaction of bigotry is just the usual way of silencing any real discussion on related issues.

[Michael Hardner]

I think that a knee-jerk reaction of bigotry is just the usual way of silencing any real discussion on related issues.

The title of the thread is "Black governments", so the OP framed this in terms of race, not me. Are we not supposed to say anything about bigotry in a thread that asks about "Black governments" ?

[DogOnPorch]

The title of the thread is "Black governments", so the OP framed this in terms of race, not me. Are we not supposed to say anything about bigotry in a thread that asks about "Black governments" ?

This is your cue to rattle off all the former colonial nations that aren't sh*tholes.

[Michael Hardner]

This is your cue to rattle off all the former colonial nations that aren't sh*tholes.

Wait - are we talking about Black governments or governments of countries that are former colonies... so confusing.

If somebody starts a thread about "Yellow governments", for example, asking why Asian countries such as Indonesia or Vietnam have such bad economies then we can come back with examples such as China or Japan which weren't ever colonized/run into the ground. That way, we can take the legs right out of the racial argument from the get go...

[DogOnPorch]

Wait - are we talking about Black governments or governments of countries that are former colonies... so confusing.

If somebody starts a thread about "Yellow governments", for example, asking why Asian countries such as Indonesia or Vietnam have such bad economies then we can come back with examples such as China or Japan which weren't ever colonized/run into the ground. That way, we can take the legs right out of the racial argument from the get go...

Couldn't name one, I gather? Africa in particular. Communist China isn't my idea of a success story. More a glutton with an appetite that makes our piggery look frugal. I'd hazard to say ALL have runaway populations and declining standards of living due to crime and worse.

Japan not run into the ground, eh? There was this war, see. And Japan got FLATTENED by some very large aircraft with white stars on their wings. You might have heard...

:lol:

[Guest Manny]

This is your cue to rattle off all the former colonial nations that aren't sh*tholes.

Could that be like the missing link? "Former colonial nations"...

[PIK]

The title of the thread is "Black governments", so the OP framed this in terms of race, not me. Are we not supposed to say anything about bigotry in a thread that asks about "Black governments" ?

Why are you so scared of the word black. Yes we have black run countries that are cess pools. It is people of your ilk that are so politicaly correct that nothing will ever change because you are to scared to debate it, just end it by calling it racist. I am sorry to tell you that just because multicultuism in this country says all cultures are equal. Well I hate to say it ,but that is the biggest piece of BS ever. You want to talk racism, how about our immigration policies that have stolen the best and brightess people out of these countries and then expect those countries to grow and prosper. Give me a break. Edited February 4, 2012 by PIK

[DogOnPorch]

Could that be like the missing link? "Former colonial nations"...

Yeah...poorly worded.

[Michael Hardner]

Why are you so scared of the word black. Yes we have black run countries that are cess pools.

I'm not scared of it... I just asked why we're not allowed to talk about bigotry when somebody specifically starts a thread about "Black governments". I didn't make this thread about race, the OP did ...

It is people of your ilk that are so politicaly correct that nothing will ever change because you are to scared to debate it, just end it by calling it racist. I am sorry to tell you that just because multicultuism in this country says all cultures are equal.

I'll gladly debate race, multicultuism [sic] or whatever you like, and I have.

If people bring up race, though, then they can't be afraid of being called bigots if they show bigotry. I'm not trying to control the debate here - the ones who want to talk about race with a get-out-of-jail free card to be bigoted without comment are.

[Michael Hardner]

Couldn't name one, I gather?

A former colony ? Well, there's the US and Canada...

Japan not run into the ground, eh? There was this war, see. And Japan got FLATTENED by some very large aircraft with white stars on their wings. You might have heard...

:lol:

Ok... Germany lost WW2 too.. I really don't know what you're trying to say here... conversation is all over the place.

As for former colonies with "Black governments", I'll reiterate that the USA is my favourite one, and that I would live there even if I had to change my spelling of favourite.

[DogOnPorch]

A former colony ? Well, there's the US and Canada...

We're in Africa? Best inform Meryl Streep and Robert Redford.

Ok... Germany lost WW2 too.. I really don't know what you're trying to say here... conversation is all over the place.

As for former colonies with "Black governments", I'll reiterate that the USA is my favourite one, and that I would live there even if I had to change my spelling of favourite.

Again...North America is the standard by which I go by...minus Mexico and the chaos that rules there.

[Michael Hardner]

We're in Africa? Best inform Meryl Streep and Robert Redford.

Your question to me:

"This is your cue to rattle off all the former colonial nations that aren't sh*tholes. "

[DogOnPorch]

Your question to me:

"This is your cue to rattle off all the former colonial nations that aren't sh*tholes. "

Africa in particular was the tag-line. But, why bring that up, eh?

[Michael Hardner]

Africa in particular was the tag-line. But, why bring that up, eh?

tag-line ? Don't know what you're talking about. The OP talks about 'Black governments', and I thought you were changing it to talk about colonies. Clarity is your friend.

So, I guess we're talking about Black countries that were colonies... Liberia has a current leader who looks pretty good, is striving to help her people and end corruption... but... why put those two factors together ?

If we find that those countries are in terrible shape, is it because of colonialism, race or some combination ? What do you think ?

[DogOnPorch]

I think Liberia is a place that's likely to explode again just like it did before with wholesale rape & murder in the streets...just like before. You're likely to die young...die young in childbirth having your seventh child if you're a woman. But sure, the new gang in power has that all figured-out.

[Guest Manny]

A former colony ? Well, there's the US and Canada...

That's a misleading example, because the colonialists actually moved in to live here. Now let's ask the natives how they feel about that. Same picture.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Manny

[DogOnPorch]

That's a misleading example, because the colonialists actually moved in to live here. Now let's ask the natives how they feel about that. Same picture.

Well that's it, isn't it? We pussyfoot around things in order to appear so PC perfect that SFA gets done. T'is the modern way.

Edited February 4, 2012 by DogOnPorch

[Moonlight Graham]

I'll ignore the ridiculous OP title.

One upon a time about half a millennium ago, Europe became the most powerful region in the world. They were violent wretched beasts, and they decided to use this power and technological might to colonize most of the world...until they decimated themselves with this technological might via WWII. So then they couldn't afford to subjugate their colonies, including "black countries", anymore. Along the way they also realized that yes they were violent wretched beasts, so freeing them was probably the right thing to do anyways. How convenient!

These newly "independent" black countries were happy to be free, but unfortunately their bums were still a little chapped. Many of their strongest workers and warriors were enslaved and sent across the seas. Their ancient kingdoms were plundered and destroyed, their resources stolen. Their borders were permanently carved up and formed into new "countries" without their input. Their political systems replaced with foreign ones which were not compatible with their cultures, as were their economic systems. They were taught by their violent, thieving, and brutal dictorial colonial masters that violence, thievery, and brutal dictatorship was how one ruled politically. Their religions, languages, and other cultural aspects were taught to be inferior and replaced by others. Different "ethnicities", which some whities also called "races", were pited against each via divide-and-rule tactics by their colonial masters, which has caused much bloodshed and death.

Seems to me a bit understandable that these "black governments" are a bit dysfunctional, and these "black countries" may take a century or 2 to catch up with the rest of civilization.

note: edited for graphic homosexual imagery.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Moonlight Graham

[DogOnPorch]

The soft bigotry of low expectations?