MYANMAR/BURMA: Riot Police Set Upon Protesting Monks

[jennie]

BURMA: Riot Police Set Upon Protesting Monks

IPS - Special <[email protected]>

4:43 pm (3 minutes ago)

Burma Marches On

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Despite the brutal crackdown by police and the ensuing bloodshed in Burma, thousands of Buddhist monks and other protesters continue to march, demanding the end of military rule. The international community watches uneasily, fearing a repetition of the violence of 1988 when troops opened fire on unarmed protesters, killing thousands­. From the streets of Rangoon, and from Bangkok, Washington and the United Nations, IPS brings you unique perspective on the Burmese quest for freedom and democracy.

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Protesting Monks Set Upon by Riot Police

Moe Yu May and Marwaan Macan-Markar

RANGOON, Sep 26 (IPS) - In a desperate bid to cling on to power, Burma's military junta stomped on the country’s rich Buddhist traditions on, of all days, a religious holiday, when people usually spend their time in prayer at the hundreds of pagodas that dot this country.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39413

*****

Call for Urgent International Talks on Burma at UN

Jim Lobe

WASHINGTON, Sep 25 (IPS) - Amid growing anti-government demonstrations in Burma, the International Crisis Group called Tuesday for U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon to convene urgent talks with the foreign ministers of China, India, and Singapore, the current chair of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, to promote a peaceful settlement to the political crisis there.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39405

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Monks Lead Protests, Challenge Junta

Moe Yu May and Marwaan Macan-Markar

RANGOON, Sep 25 (IPS) - Like they did for over a week, the monks who gathered at Burma’s most sacred site -- the Shwedagon pagoda -- performed a ritual on Tuesday under a blistering mid-day sun. They sat on the hallowed grounds of the majestic temple in Rangoon to pray for the people’s 'victory'.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39400

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Buddhist Clergy on Collision Course With Junta

Marwaan Macan-Markar

BANGKOK, Sep 21 (IPS) - Burma’s Buddhist monks are threatening to turn an on-going protest against steep hikes in fuel prices into a religious and moral showdown with the country’s oppressive military regime.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39354

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Buddhist Monks Take on Military Regime

Marwaan Macan-Markar

BANGKOK, Sep 7 (IPS) - Political tension in military-ruled Burma has taken an ominous turn with soldiers clashing, this week, with sections of the country’s respected Buddhist clergy. The confrontation was the latest in an unfolding drama that has featured rare public protests at massive hikes in fuel prices in August.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39173

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Junta Exposed by Information Technology

Marwaan Macan-Markar

BANGKOK, Aug 30 (IPS) - As public protests in Burma enter a second week, Burmese journalists living in exile and other expatriates are finding new appreciation for the marvels of modern communication and information technology.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39082

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A People Running on Empty

Marwaan Macan-Markar

BANGKOK, Aug 24 (IPS) - For over a week, Burmese civilians in and around Rangoon have been forced to make a tough choice -- stay at home and starve or go to work and labour on near-empty stomachs.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39007

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[guyser]

Umm, is there a reason for this post? Any comment to add?

Oh please tell me you are not surprised that a dictitorial republic is doing some bad things.

Military rule, military justice.

[M.Dancer]

The burese are just expressing themselves in a culturally appropriate indiginous fashion. Quite imperialistic of us to notice one way or another.

[Higgly]

This is a really sad story that began over a decade ago with the election of Aung San Suu Kyi and her subsequent continued house arrest by the military junta. The west has done very little but wag its finger. The real villian in this is ASEAN - the Association of South East Asian Nations (Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia...) who have stood by and watched as the military junta dragged Burma into the stone age. In fact, ASEAN - an organization that routinely preaches democracy - has taken a constant policy of non-involvement that has amounted to little more than tacit approval of this brutal dictatorship.

The protest by the monks has been the latest attempt by the people of Burma to re-assert democracy. I imagine there willl be the usual torture, beatings and arrests without trial that have been the stock in trade of the junta ever since the 1990s.

Since Burma has no oil and has never threatened any American ally, we will never see Burma added to the axis of evil and the west will no doubt treat this as just another big yawn in some heathen country. The leaders of the junta will continue to enjoy golf holidays in the US and their wives and families will continue to enjoy the finest shopping New York has to offer.

[Sulaco]

This is a really sad story that began over a decade ago with the election of Aung San Suu Kyi and her subsequent continued house arrest by the military junta. The west has done very little but wag its finger. The real villian in this is ASEAN - the Association of South East Asian Nations (Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia...) who have stood by and watched as the military junta dragged Burma into the stone age. In fact, ASEAN - an organization that routinely preaches democracy - has taken a constant policy of non-involvement that has amounted to little more than tacit approval of this brutal dictatorship.

The protest by the monks has been the latest attempt by the people of Burma to re-assert democracy. I imagine there willl be the usual torture, beatings and arrests without trial that have been the stock in trade of the junta ever since the 1990s.

Since Burma has no oil and has never threatened any American ally, we will never see Burma added to the axis of evil and the west will no doubt treat this as just another big yawn in some heathen country. The leaders of the junta will continue to enjoy golf holidays in the US and their wives and families will continue to enjoy the finest shopping New York has to offer.

God forbid the military juna be seen as "the real villain." Anyone else notice this strange, pathological drive to avoid blaming those who are most directly to blame?

[Higgly]

God forbid the military juna be seen as "the real villain." Anyone else notice this strange, pathological drive to avoid blaming those who are most directly to blame?

You're kidding right? Notice folks how a relevant post on the topic is turned into an attack on the poster. Sad.

Edited September 26, 2007 by Higgly

[bush_cheney2004]

This is a really sad story that began over a decade ago with the election of Aung San Suu Kyi and her subsequent continued house arrest by the military junta. The west has done very little but wag its finger....

That's because you told them not to...intervention by the "west" creates a mess dontchaknow!

[Higgly]

That's because you told them not to...intervention by the "west" creates a mess dontchaknow!

Yes, Higgly the all-powerful. The point is that the west does nothing about democracy unless it's own interests are at stake. The nonsense about helping the people of Iraq that Bush keeps spouting is just that.

Amazing. In this entire thread there are two posts that are on topic. The rest are personal attacks. Everybody wants to take on the big guy.

And here I was proud of the fact that I could type Aun San Suu Kyi's name without having to look it up. Hell, even JBG can't spell Ahmadinejad.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes, Higgly the all-powerful. The point is that the west does nothing about democracy unless it's own interests are at stake. The nonsense about helping the people of Iraq that Bush keeps spouting is just that.

All-powerful...no. Fraudulent point exposed...yes. Leave any such notion about "helping people" to the experts, not nation states or the mythical "west".

[Higgly]

All-powerful...no. Fraudulent point exposed...yes. Leave any such notion about "helping people" to the experts, not nation states or the mythical "west".

The point went over your head. Try standing up.

Nine posts in this thread and still only two are on topic. Could be we're gonna have a record here.

[bush_cheney2004]

Nine posts in this thread and still only two are on topic. Could be we're gonna have a record here.

Indeed...four of the posts are yours. Myanmar needs more of this.

Edited September 27, 2007 by bush_cheney2004

[capricorn]

Let's all calm down. The UN wants to send a special envoy to Burma/Myanmar to settle everything.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7015212.stm

The military junta blames outside forces for the protests. Here is their statement.

"Please allow me to present the truth about a series of events that are taking place in Myanmar (Burma).

"A group of people - with ill-intentions - inside and outside the country, who are committing destructive acts, have continuously been instigating the people politically in recent days".

"This is happening because a group of internal and external destructive elements - who are envious of Myanmar that is peaceful, tranquil, and developing - are planning and creating the above-mentioned situation to destroy every government effort by various means".

"The current protest marches on the streets that are taking place in the country are systematically planned and executed from abroad".

In other words, our people don't want democracy. Rigghhtt. No specific country is accused...so far.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7011920.stm

[Higgly]

I wonder who those people are supposed to be? Funny no names are mentioned.

This sounds like the same newspeak that the junta comes up with every time Aun San Suu Kyi tries to leave her house.

"The problem is not our country, the problem is foreign provocateurs."

I'm looking for some sort of statement from ASEAN, but I wouldn't be surprised if they just sat on their hands as usual.

[GostHacked]

You're kidding right? Notice folks how a relevant post on the topic is turned into an attack on the poster. Sad.

I agree with this. I don't understand how a Bhuddist monk can be violent to others, when all their monkdom talks about peace and being peacefull within and without.

I would bet a monk would take out another monk before they actually take out anyone else.

Get a few hundres monks together, peacefull protest (as they keep doing for they are determined to bring peace, through non violent action. For that they get MOWED DOWN like grass. Those pussy ass cops are using AUTOMATIC weapons to fire on unarmed peacefull monks.

What is a monk to do but set himself on fire?

[Higgly]

The Singapore Straits Times has an article quoting Singapore foreign Minister George Yeo (and current chairman of ASEAN) calling for dialogue between the two sides. The Straits Times has traditionally been a mouthpiece for the Peoples Action Party, which has run Singapore for decades - sort of like the PRE once ran Mexico.

http://www.straitstimes.com/Latest%2BNews/...ory_161869.html

The statement at the end of the article is not encouraging, though....

"Asked what Asean would do if the junta became increasingly repressive, he said: 'If national reconciliation is not possible and there is repression and violence where many people die, then it is a new situation all over again. Asean can issue statements and Asean can shed tears.

'But at that point in time, it will be a fight within Myanmar itself.'"

In other words, you're on your own. Once again, the guys with the guns and the cattle prods will win. I bet those junta guys spend like drunken sailors down on Orchard Road when they're in town.

Here is a case where the only issue is democracy and all the chest beaters who tell us again and again that they are bringing freedom and democracy to the world appear to be barely aware that this is happening. This would be an easy win, but the truth is that it just doesn't matter.

Edited September 27, 2007 by Higgly

[myata]

Here is a case where the only issue is democracy and all the chest beaters who tell us again and again that they are bringing freedom and democracy to the world appear to be barely aware that this is happening. This would be an easy win, but the truth is that it just doesn't matter.

The US has just imposed sanctions on Burma.

I tend to agree (with the Singapour guy) that while international community can and should condemn violent usurpent rulers through all means available, such as e..g:

- limiting their power by prohibiting sales of any weapons and imposing sanctions on anything that can help them maintain power;

- restricting the ability of dictators to travel outside the country;

- in cases of extreme and unjustified violence, indicting the perpetrators via ICC; etc,

it cannot solve the problem from the outside. Ultimately it's up to the people to dispose of their dictators.

I would also like to see the standard applied consistently accross the board, not the current scapegoat / see no evil model, depending on the service you give us.

[Higgly]

The US has just imposed sanctions on Burma.

I tend to agree (with the Singapour guy) that while international community can and should condemn violent usurpent rulers through all means available, such as e..g:

- limiting their power by prohibiting sales of any weapons and imposing sanctions on anything that can help them maintain power;

- restricting the ability of dictators to travel outside the country;

- in cases of extreme and unjustified violence, indicting the perpetrators via ICC; etc,

it cannot solve the problem from the outside. Ultimately it's up to the people to dispose of their dictators.

I would also like to see the standard applied consistently accross the board, not the current scapegoat / see no evil model, depending on the service you give us.

Good news. We'll see what it amounts to. I too would like to see the standard applied equally across the board, and in fact that is the point of my arguments. I do not agree with George Yeo (The Singapore guy) though. He is just throwing the lambs to the wolves. Sure it's up to the people to depose the dictators, but here is what might happen: peaceful demonstrators march in Burma. The army cracks down, busts a few heads, arrests some. Demonstrators march some more. The army kills a bunch , throws leaders in jail, tortures them. The protesters stage another march. Huge numbers of protesters killed. Finally the outside world wags its finger. The junta goes into stealth mode. No more public slaughter. Now we have quiet torture and repression (as before). All the leaders are either dead or in jail. The whole thing slips off the front page. The world moves on to the next headline.

[ScottSA]

You're kidding right? Notice folks how a relevant post on the topic is turned into an attack on the poster. Sad.

Why are you attacking Sully?

[Higgly]

The US has just imposed sanctions on Burma.

I tend to agree (with the Singapour guy) that while international community can and should condemn violent usurpent rulers through all means available, such as e..g:

- limiting their power by prohibiting sales of any weapons and imposing sanctions on anything that can help them maintain power;

- restricting the ability of dictators to travel outside the country;

- in cases of extreme and unjustified violence, indicting the perpetrators via ICC; etc,

it cannot solve the problem from the outside. Ultimately it's up to the people to dispose of their dictators.

I would also like to see the standard applied consistently accross the board, not the current scapegoat / see no evil model, depending on the service you give us.

Good news. We'll see what it amounts to. I too would like to see the standard applied equally across the board, and in fact that is the point of my arguments. I do not agree with George Yeo (The Singapore guy) though. He is just throwing the lambs to the wolves. Sure it's up to the people to depose the dictators, but here is what might happen: peaceful demonstrators march in Burma. The army cracks down, busts a few heads, arrests some. Demonstrators march some more. The army kills a bunch , throws leaders in jail, tortures them. The protesters stage another march. Huge numbers of protesters killed. Finally the outside world wags its finger. The junta goes into stealth mode. No more public slaughter. Now we have quiet torture and repression (as before). All the leaders are either dead or in jail. The whole thing slips off the front page. The world moves on to the next headline.

[kengs333]

Umm, is there a reason for this post? Any comment to add?

Oh please tell me you are not surprised that a dictitorial republic is doing some bad things.

Military rule, military justice.

She's just pasting stuff from one of the multitude of activist sites that she visits, a very annoying practice that really is no better than spam. Why people like this aren't banned is beyond me. This is a message forum, a place where people discuss issues--ie., they formulate their own opinions.

edit:

okay, it's from an e-mailed newsletter; whatever the case, annoying as hell.

Edited September 27, 2007 by kengs333

[JB Globe]

Anyone know why China thinks it's in their interests to back a brutal regime almost unconditionally? They're blocking any security council resolution against Burma. - My guess is the thought of a another possible democracy in their midst makes them scared.

[ScottSA]

Anyone know why China thinks it's in their interests to back a brutal regime almost unconditionally? They're blocking any security council resolution against Burma. - My guess is the thought of a another possible democracy in their midst makes them scared.

No, they're flexing their international muscles and trying to set up the foundations of empire, or at least a sphere of influence. It will only increase in the future. Our immediate question concerns what happens in Vancouver when the situation begins to boil.

[GostHacked]

She's just pasting stuff from one of the multitude of activist sites that she visits, a very annoying practice that really is no better than spam. Why people like this aren't banned is beyond me. This is a message forum, a place where people discuss issues--ie., they formulate their own opinions.

edit:

okay, it's from an e-mailed newsletter; whatever the case, annoying as hell.

And we use articles from news sites to support our views. That is a forum. Get used to it. Articles are quoted all the time. Get used to it. If you think it is spam, then ignore every poster who does this. You are gonna find this place boring if you do that however.

HOWEVER, Burma does not exist anymore. it is now called Myanmar. Sanctions on Burma don't equate to anything at all.

All in all the peacefull protests will go on, and that will bring change to the country. Or the place will go into the bucket. Maybe it already has. Do you really need to use automacit weapons on Bhuddist Monks?

[myata]

...

The army cracks down, busts a few heads, arrests some. Demonstrators march some more. The army kills a bunch , throws leaders in jail, tortures them. The protesters stage another march. Huge numbers of protesters killed. Finally the outside world wags its finger. The junta goes into stealth mode. No more public slaughter. Now we have quiet torture and repression (as before). All the leaders are either dead or in jail. The whole thing slips off the front page. The world moves on to the next headline.

It all comes down to that what was discussed many many times: can the world have / is it mature enough to have a stable credible and functioning international justice system. From all I can say, the clear answer is "No". Nobody is guilty of that more than somebody else, just human society as a whole not ready for that. These situations will continue to happen.

[jennie]

It all comes down to that what was discussed many many times: can the world have / is it mature enough to have a stable credible and functioning international justice system. From all I can say, the clear answer is "No". Nobody is guilty of that more than somebody else, just human society as a whole not ready for that. These situations will continue to happen.

Unfortunately justice systems, like ours for example, do not prevent crime, but process crimes already committed. Thus, international justice may be working well, but it will work after the fact.