Should life really be unfair?

[Higgly]

Right wingers love to tell us that life is unfair. I'd certainly agree since none of them ever seem to send their kids to fight wars in godforsaken corners of the world. Lefties, on the other hand, are dedicated to making sure that life is fair.

Do you think life should really be unfair?

I would have made this a poll but the polling mechanism here is unfair

[geoffrey]

Right wingers love to tell us that life is unfair. I'd certainly agree since none of them ever seem to send their kids to fight wars in godforsaken corners of the world. Lefties, on the other hand, are dedicated to making sure that life is fair.

Do you have any evidence that the right-wing is generally richer, that they send fewer kids to war (this I HIGHLY dispute)?

Do you think life should really be unfair?

If everyone has equal rights, it can easily be argued that life is fair. Everyone has the same right to succeed, those that chose to succeed do, and those that choose not to do end up wherever they are.

The left's favourite leftist once said, “luck, that's when preparation and opportunity meet (Trudeau)." He's right. People win because they want to, because they make the right choices, and because they are prepared to accept the RISK associated with the RETURNS of certain opportunities.

Do you expect society to continously give second chances at everyone's expense? I'd rather not. People's futures are in their own hands. If they choose not to make choices that suit them for a successful future, then they should deal with that. It's simply not our collective responsibility.

[margrace]

Do you have any evidence that the right-wing is generally richer, that they send fewer kids to war (this I HIGHLY dispute)?

If everyone has equal rights, it can easily be argued that life is fair. Everyone has the same right to succeed, those that chose to succeed do, and those that choose not to do end up wherever they are.

The left's favourite leftist once said, “luck, that's when preparation and opportunity meet (Trudeau)." He's right. People win because they want to, because they make the right choices, and because they are prepared to accept the RISK associated with the RETURNS of certain opportunities.

Do you expect society to continously give second chances at everyone's expense? I'd rather not. People's futures are in their own hands. If they choose not to make choices that suit them for a successful future, then they should deal with that. It's simply not our collective responsibility.

Only someone young and inexerienced would believe this. Wait for 50 years and come back with that.

[bush_cheney2004]

Only someone young and inexerienced would believe this. Wait for 50 years and come back with that.

No, geoffrey is correct and reflects reality. I am old and very experienced...and will "come back with that" until the day I die, rich or poor.

[Guest American Woman]

If everyone has equal rights, it can easily be argued that life is fair.

Equal rights doesn't make life "fair." Some poor child born in the ghetto may have the same rights as mine, but she certainly doesn't have the same opportunities, and that's not fair. Another child, who's lived in 6 foster homes by his tenth birthday, certainly hasn't had it fair. Still another child, who has health issues and parents who can't afford to pay for the needed care may have equal rights, but it's still not fair that they don't have access to the needed medical coverage. A young high school graduate who can only afford to go to university if he joins the military, and ends up having to fight in someone else's war as a result, may have the same rights as those who don't need to join to get an education, but it's certainly not "fair" when he comes home a parapalegic at age 20.

Then there's the millions of orphans, whose parents died of AIDS, on the streets struggling to survive in Africa. And on and on it goes.

Life is most definitely not fair, as it should be. We, the 'rich' nations of the world should be doing so much more-- for our citizens AND other nations; our nations/citizens in general should be so much more caring than we are.

Edited September 10, 2007 by American Woman

[jennie]

Those who feel everyone has the same opportunities to succeed haven't had the 'opportunity' of being born without them.

It is easy to take your own privileges for granted when you don't know what it is like to be without them.

[bush_cheney2004]

Those who feel everyone has the same opportunities to succeed haven't had the 'opportunity' of being born without them.

Hmmm....yet this same mindset fought very hard for the opportunity to stop them from being born at all.

[myata]

Nope, I like it to be fair - to me. Now do you know anybody who could chip in some goodies to that effect?

[RB]

Do you think life should really be unfair?

If life was fair, we'd all be good, rich, bald, fat and right.

I mean were you thinking that if life is fair 'good things can happen upon good people', 'bad things.....'

One poster above points out people may win because they have a drive and want to win, or they make right choices in life. Hard work is huge incentive payoff, seems fair to win if you struggle a bit.

I can now add, society also help create the boundaries of fairness, we make laws in which a capitalistic mind can see the riches and go for it but puts a check in place to keep people streamlined and accountable.

The unfairness notion of course becomes artificial at some point around where the boundaries of law extend and go no further. I meant the law only goes <----> this far and stops.

So we do have to rely our moral conscience. Is it right, left or wrong - I think this is what is in question - yes.

I refer to the documentaries of 9/11 that kept showing all weekend on TV. Very bad things happened to very good people that day, and as you listen to the stories of heroes, those who made it alive and those who stayed behind to help others and didn't make it, how unfair is that?

Like right and wrong, fair and unfairness is not arbitrary. It is of course limited to the choices we make and kicks in at the point where the law fails us.

It seems to me that people do create little system of justices all by themselves for themselves, and put forth reasoning for themselves why they did or didn't do it.

Should I stop to help this lady on the stairs knowing in few minutes we can all die, dilemma.

An accident occurs on the road my friend dies, and I am still here - how unfair is that?

bad things are happening to good people - just how unfair is life

[jennie]

Hmmm....yet this same mindset fought very hard for the opportunity to stop them from being born at all.

hunh?

[Bonam]

The "right" wants equality of opportunity. Those who work hardest and are the most capable reap the richest rewards. Those who are lazy or incapable don't do so well.

The "left" wants equality of outcome. Those who work hardest and are the most capable are taxed to hell so that the lazy and incapable can live on government subsidies.

To me, it's the second that seems more unfair, not the first. Not that I'm saying that our society has necessarily achieved either. Rather, it's floating somewhere in between, and not fulfilling either ideal completely.

As to the title... whether it should or not, life is always going to be unfair, regardless of the kind of society one lives in. Getting hit by a car is unfair, getting a serious disease is unfair, getting your house destroyed by a storm is unfair, etc. Most of the "injustices" that a typical person living in the West is going to suffer have nothing to do with politics or economics.

[kimmy]

Growing up, I had one privilege that sadly not every Canadian child has:

competent parenting.

I think it's the most significant factor in determining how successful a child will be in life. Sadly, it's also something that would be pretty hard for the state to make sure that kids have.

-k

[jefferiah]

Right wingers love to tell us that life is unfair. I'd certainly agree since none of them ever seem to send their kids to fight wars in godforsaken corners of the world. Lefties, on the other hand, are dedicated to making sure that life is fair.

Do you think life should really be unfair?

I would have made this a poll but the polling mechanism here is unfair

That's ridiculous Higgly. Of course right wingers are in the army. And people who believe in free enterprise are not necessarily fat cats, either. I know a lot of people who are not high on funds but believe in ecomonic freedom versus socialism.

The problem the right has with the left is that in their attempts to try to control every aspect of life to make things fair, they are not actually helping. You cannot even out life by making a few numbers and end results pan out evenly. It is a logical fallacy. When you enact a policy which seeks to create fairness there are always problems with it. So it's not that people on the right do not believe in fairness, but that they don't believe leftism creates the most fair result. It is better to have the individual freedom to be fair or unfair than to have a legislated "fairness" which ends up not being fair.

Edited September 10, 2007 by jefferiah

[Peter F]

Hmmm....yet this same mindset fought very hard for the opportunity to stop them from being born at all.

Stop who from being born?

[betsy]

Do you think life should really be unfair?

No.

But that's reality. We're not born equal...so right from the start, life is unfair.

So instead of wasting our energies whining and wallowing in self-pity that usually leads to bitterness.... perhaps we just have to make the most of what we have and try to reach as far as we can.

Edited September 10, 2007 by betsy

[betsy]

Equal rights doesn't make life "fair." Some poor child born in the ghetto may have the same rights as mine, but she certainly doesn't have the same opportunities, and that's not fair. Another child, who's lived in 6 foster homes by his tenth birthday, certainly hasn't had it fair. Still another child, who has health issues and parents who can't afford to pay for the needed care may have equal rights, but it's still not fair that they don't have access to the needed medical coverage. A young high school graduate who can only afford to go to university if he joins the military, and ends up having to fight in someone else's war as a result, may have the same rights as those who don't need to join to get an education, but it's certainly not "fair" when he comes home a parapalegic at age 20.

Then there's the millions of orphans, whose parents died of AIDS, on the streets struggling to survive in Africa. And on and on it goes.

And those that were born missing a limb, or not that mentally bright enough.

When they do assessments of your child in school to tell you whether it's worth your while to send your kid to university...or don't bother.

Then, there are those errors in judgement (whether done immaturely or in later years, it doesn't matter)....the stroke of luck...or the cruelty of fate that suddenly turns a healthy boy into a paraplegic, handicapped, psychologically troubled, a single parent with 4 children ...etc.

Perhaps the modern age, the enlightened society along with technology will propose to change all that to make life much more fair for everyone.

We start with the unborn. We create the designer kids. We just snuff those mistakes who don't make the grade.

Then we can euthanize those who struggles and "suffers". Etc...,

We can all look beautiful.

[margrace]

How can we make life fair for everyone? Perhaps if we all chose one unfortunate child to help we could go a long way to fairness. We all spend too much time judging the parents to care about the child. I see people who help others and I see people who spend all their time putting others down. It makes them feel good.

When my husband died I went back to school, one day in the grocery store checkout an acquaintance asked me what I was doing. I told her I was going back to school. The lady running the check out counter was furious. Her husband had died several years before and she apparently had no opportunity to go back to school. She was about 10 years older than me and reamed us both out, quite loudly, about why I should get this opportunity and she did not. We were all acutley embarrassed and I felt quite sorry for her. So no life is not fair to some people.

[betsy]

How can we make life fair for everyone? Perhaps if we all chose one unfortunate child to help we could go a long way to fairness.

There is nothing wrong with helping unfortunate people. How can we even call it fairness if we only concentrate on helping children?

However, no matter how we try, some things are simply beyond our control.

What makes the un-fairness most pronounced I think is the way we judge what success and accomplishment means by today's standards. Nowadays you are nowhere being considered a success unless you have a big house with a car and your children each have a cellular phone. And that is just the very minimum requirement.

The climb is quite steep for a lot of people. It is quite easy to see one's self as a failure if we do not meet the standards.

[moderateamericain]

Not to knock the original poster but this is a fairly infantile argument. Yes, some people do have more opportunities to become a successful member of society (as we see it). But ultimately are responsible for our own well being. If you do not like your surroundings do something about it. I know plenty of Poor Ghetto folk who joined the military got out and went to school for practically free after there enlistment was up. Is that for everyone? Probably not. But they fought through 5 years or so of hardship and MADE them self successful. Success is earned it can not be given. I believe in the bible it says "Give a man a fish he will eat for a day, Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime." Now I know that’s taken out of syntax, but I believe that applies to life. You can't force someone to be successful by giving them handouts; ultimately they will just resent it and not believe in themselves. But showing someone that they can do it even if they have to overcome tough odds will reshape a person for life.

My 2 cents.

[kimmy]

Well, you wonder why I always dress in black,

Why you never see bright colors on my back,

And why does my appearance seem to have a somber tone.

Well, there's a reason for the things that I have on.

I wear the black for the poor and the beaten down,

Livin' in the hopeless, hungry side of town,

I wear it for the prisoner who has long paid for his crime,

But is there because he's a victim of the times.

I wear the black for those who never read,

Or listened to the words that Jesus said,

About the road to happiness through love and charity,

Why, you'd think He's talking straight to you and me.

Well, we're doin' mighty fine, I do suppose,

In our streak of lightnin' cars and fancy clothes,

But just so we're reminded of the ones who are held back,

Up front there ought 'a be a Man In Black.

I wear it for the sick and lonely old,

For the reckless ones whose bad trip left them cold,

I wear the black in mournin' for the lives that could have been,

Each week we lose a hundred fine young men.

And, I wear it for the thousands who have died,

Believen' that the Lord was on their side,

I wear it for another hundred thousand who have died,

Believen' that we all were on their side.

Well, there's things that never will be right I know,

And things need changin' everywhere you go,

But 'til we start to make a move to make a few things right,

You'll never see me wear a suit of white.

Ah, I'd love to wear a rainbow every day,

And tell the world that everything's OK,

But I'll try to carry off a little darkness on my back,

'Till things are brighter, I'm the Man In Black

-Johnny Cash.

[moderateamericain]

Well, you wonder why I always dress in black,

Why you never see bright colors on my back,

And why does my appearance seem to have a somber tone.

Well, there's a reason for the things that I have on.

I wear the black for the poor and the beaten down,

Livin' in the hopeless, hungry side of town,

I wear it for the prisoner who has long paid for his crime,

But is there because he's a victim of the times.

I wear the black for those who never read,

Or listened to the words that Jesus said,

About the road to happiness through love and charity,

Why, you'd think He's talking straight to you and me.

Well, we're doin' mighty fine, I do suppose,

In our streak of lightnin' cars and fancy clothes,

But just so we're reminded of the ones who are held back,

Up front there ought 'a be a Man In Black.

I wear it for the sick and lonely old,

For the reckless ones whose bad trip left them cold,

I wear the black in mournin' for the lives that could have been,

Each week we lose a hundred fine young men.

And, I wear it for the thousands who have died,

Believen' that the Lord was on their side,

I wear it for another hundred thousand who have died,

Believen' that we all were on their side.

Well, there's things that never will be right I know,

And things need changin' everywhere you go,

But 'til we start to make a move to make a few things right,

You'll never see me wear a suit of white.

Ah, I'd love to wear a rainbow every day,

And tell the world that everything's OK,

But I'll try to carry off a little darkness on my back,

'Till things are brighter, I'm the Man In Black

-Johnny Cash.

Take another hit Johnny? maybe inject a bit more?

[Renegade]

I'd certainly agree since none of them ever seem to send their kids to fight wars in godforsaken corners of the world.

I trust you have never been in the army. For the most part people don't "send their kids to fight". It is a voluntary decision to elist. Also, the overwhelming bias of those in the forces is toward the political right.

Do you think life should really be unfair?

Who gets to decide what is "fair"? Would it be "fair" if my neighbour is born beautiful and I was born ugly?

[Visionseeker]

Life is unfair. For if it were fair, humanity would have no need for a system of justice, children’s aid societies would be without clients, and a military would be an abomination.

That life is unfair, replete with injustice and horror is the underlying motivator for all of society’s institutional constructs. From the most basic tribal society to more elaborate constructs of nation states, the desire for order and security is behind all of its rules and conventions. Where they differ is how they define order and relative tolerance to insecurity.

In “western” societies, one finds civilizations that have built an immense variety of institutionalized mechanisms and conventions that are designed to influence the relative order and security enjoyed by its inhabitants. From mandatory helmet laws to statutes prohibiting regicide, from financial regulators to by-law enforcement, each measure represents a curtailment of freedom in the name of public order (or more commonly held, in the “public good”). But our penchant for intervention doesn’t end there. It expands into realms that intrude into our ostensibly private lives in the form of gun registries and proscribes employment quotas in our places of work. If there is one thing that civilization has proven itself adept, it is in the formulation of rules.

Now this thread framed the question in terms of the right advancing that we should all accept that life is unfair and that the left stand in opposition to this premise. I say it is all hogwash! Both the left and the right accept that life is unfair, they simply differ as to which injustices are to be met and/or the methods for doing so.

An adherent on the “right” is prone to demand intervention by children’s aid when a mother, immersed in poverty, is having difficulties providing for her child; while someone on the “left” would argue that the state should intervene through better welfare benefits. Both recognize that something unfair is occurring (a child is suffering) and both demand that the state intervene, the only difference is how such intervention should proceed.

I surround left and right with quotes above because it is actually wrong to look at this from a left-right perspective. What is more meaningful is to recognize that one advances punishment while the other appeals for compassion. Framing the issue as a right-left dichotomy serves only to compel us to dogmatically follow what the right-left playbook says, regardless of the circumstances. As I reject the validity of dogma, I must reject such dichotomies. For dogmatic battles produce either inertia or victims, neither of which advances the public good.

Edited September 13, 2007 by Visionseeker

[M.Dancer]

If life were fair we would all be screwed.

[BornAlbertan]

Stop who from being born?

for you and Jennie...it is a reference to the fact that the left is supportive of abortions of convenience...or more appropriately the termination of pregnancies of inconvenience.