snowdogs2010 Posted November 22, 2008 Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 It's amazing how many of you know Khadr so well as to consider him a `killer' or `anti-Canadian'.How many of you have met him? How many of you are regurgitating what you've heard instead of thinking and finding out the facts for yourselves? How old are you people? Canadians aren't a paranoid, angry mob on a witch-hunt. We don't imprison kids without trial and we don't torture people, especially our own. What's the average age in these forums, 14? Grow up. Say they bring him back and he is found guilty and gets 20-40 years in jail.Would you be fine with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted November 22, 2008 Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 The Khdar situation started off as silly and illogical and is ending the same way - The enemy combantant thing is bizzare - Do we forget that they were surrounded in a compound that is on their original home turf so to speak - Do we forget that the American and other forces blew the crap out of the place till it was rubble and ALL were dead - It's bizarre that out of the pile of bricks and dead bodys - out pops Khdar and supposedly continues to fight....It was fine killing a dozen dark eyed bearded ones - but just like Israel - the Americans figured "How dare they kill ONE of ours after we killed a dozen of theirs?" Even if Khdar toss the granade it was not as if he had done it while standing on Young street - but they are treating him as if he did - It would have been better if he tossed it in the Eaton Centre - He would have been out on bail in an hour.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 22, 2008 Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 Even if Khdar toss the granade it was not as if he had done it while standing on Young street - but they are treating him as if he did - It would have been better if he tossed it in the Eaton Centre - He would have been out on bail in an hour.. Maybe...but it would have been far simpler to just shoot his ass right there. Next..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noahbody Posted November 22, 2008 Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 Do we forget that they were surrounded in a compound that is on their original home turf so to speak Are you saying those in the compound had not previously engaged in warfare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radsickle Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 Say they bring him back and he is found guilty and gets 20-40 years in jail.Would you be fine with that. If he's judged guilty of a charge brought on him by fellow Canadians and judged by fellow Canadians, then I would be fine with that. I would be happy if he were treated like a human being and given a friggin' trial. But we seem complacent to let him rot in a Dick Cheney - created limbo. Screw the Republican party of our neighbours. They've forgotten what justice is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radsickle Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Maybe if Harper's kicked out of power by a coalition representing the majority of Canadians, Khadr's fate will change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Maybe if Harper's kicked out of power by a coalition representing the majority of Canadians, Khadr's fate will change. A majority of Canadians? Perhaps you could explain to us how a coalition where NDP voters can also be considered Liberal supporters, along with ONLY those Quebecers who want to break up the country represent a majority of Canadians. It seems to me that if you want to know the wishes of Canadians the ONLY way to know for certain is to LET THEM VOTE! What's more, I'd be very surprised if a lot of Canadians didn't bitterly resent being denied the choice and expressed their feelings at the NEXT election! It might be very interesting to have this coup stand and see how it plays out. The Liberals would have the shakiest coalition one could imagine. With the number of Tory seats compared to those of the Liberals and NDP, everything would depend on the BQ. Duceppe would only have to say "Hop!" and Dion would have to ask "How high?". The very first time the Liberals balked at giving the BQ whatever they wanted would bring the whole house of cards crashing down. Surely the GG would know this and take it into consideration before she would accede to the Oppositions' proposal. If she still went along with it I'd be very surprised if the new government lasted 3 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radsickle Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 A majority of Canadians? Perhaps you could explain to us how a coalition where NDP voters can also be considered Liberal supporters, along with ONLY those Quebecers who want to break up the country represent a majority of Canadians. The majority of Canadians voted for anything but Conservative. A coalition of the opposition would represent them. Period. If you want to opine the details, why not do it in the proper forum topic? Khadr's fate is the topic of this forum thread. Do you have anything to add about that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 The majority of Canadians voted for anything but Conservative. A coalition of the opposition would represent them. Period. If you want to opine the details, why not do it in the proper forum topic? Point of order.....since voter turnout was only 59%, this is technically incorrect. *** We now return you to your regular programming.. ****** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 You must really enjoy seeing madness in Ottawa....eg..."I will send them a strong dellusion" Or - "my people perish for lack of knowledge" - it's amazing that politicals don't even have a clue of how the world works...me some grade nine drop out who spent 40 years observing figured it out...but in Ottawa they are truely of a low level consciousness....shocking and distressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radsickle Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Point of order.....since voter turnout was only 59%, this is technically incorrect.*** We now return you to your regular programming.. ****** umm, what part of `voted' don't you understand? I don't care if only 59% showed up, the majority of them didn't want Harper, Period. Canada will forever regret what it's done to Khadr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 umm, what part of `voted' don't you understand? I don't care if only 59% showed up, the majority of them didn't want Harper, Period. What part of Canadians don't you understand.....not to mention basic math. Canada will forever regret what it's done to Khadr. He will be forgotten very quickly...unless he gets $10 million too....LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 umm, what part of `voted' don't you understand? I don't care if only 59% showed up, the majority of them didn't want Harper, Period I guess we could also say that a greater majority also did not want Layton, or Dion period.... Canada will forever regret what it's done to Khadr. Yes because it was the Harpers government that put this boy on a battle field so many miles from our nation, it was harper that enlisted this boy into a terrorist organzation, it was harper that forced this boy to fight against Canadian soldiers..... It was Canada that sat on it's asses while we paid out good tax dollars to feed , cloth, and nuture in our hospitals the sons of this terrorist family.... But this is not enough for you, , now we must feel ashamed at not reuniting all of them under one roof, and while we turn the other cheek, what is it that this family has planned for Canada and it's peaceful citizens....is it the same respect, kindness, hospitality...or are they going to continue thier support of terrorists and thier activities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 I guess we could also say that a greater majority also did not want Layton, or Dion period....Yes because it was the Harpers government that put this boy on a battle field so many miles from our nation, it was harper that enlisted this boy into a terrorist organzation, it was harper that forced this boy to fight against Canadian soldiers..... It was Canada that sat on it's asses while we paid out good tax dollars to feed , cloth, and nuture in our hospitals the sons of this terrorist family.... But this is not enough for you, , now we must feel ashamed at not reuniting all of them under one roof, and while we turn the other cheek, what is it that this family has planned for Canada and it's peaceful citizens....is it the same respect, kindness, hospitality...or are they going to continue thier support of terrorists and thier activities. Immigrant arrives in Canada - decides to go home with pops - and ends up fighting off Americans that he believe are invading his home...Canada was never home to the kdars and they are not enemy combatants...just jerks that wanted free medical and at the same time wanted to fight for the homeland...this is not their homeland - so Canada should not be ashamed - they should be proud of young Khadr - a kid in a bombed out building fighting to the death like a real hero....and who many civilians were shocked and awed to death for no good reason in Baghdad that night? If someone fired their AK an incoming missle...does that make him another Khdar? Point being the boy did a wonderful job during that fire fight and broke no law other than coming to Canada and abandoning his generous new master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Come on Oleg even you can come up with better, read some of statements about our young Mr Khadr...he is no hero, Afgan army forces suspected them as being armed and approached the house to talk, they were greeted with a hail of gun fire....they where not there protecting anything, it was a safe house one in which they built IED's.....an activity that is illigal, he belonged to terrorist group also illigal, he planted IED's also illigal....He is a terrorist scumbag, that some Canadians have fallen in love with like some women fall in love with harden criminals....stop the love affair, and see him for what he is....a terrorist.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Come on Oleg even you can come up with better, read some of statements about our young Mr Khadr...he is no hero, Afgan army forces suspected them as being armed and approached the house to talk, they were greeted with a hail of gun fire....they where not there protecting anything, it was a safe house one in which they built IED's.....an activity that is illigal, he belonged to terrorist group also illigal, he planted IED's also illigal....He is a terrorist scumbag, that some Canadians have fallen in love with like some women fall in love with harden criminals....stop the love affair, and see him for what he is....a terrorist.. Was playing the devils' advocate for a moment. I have no love for anyone that comes to our nation wanting you dead. I read people well and I can tell which one carries the hate and which ones wants to get along - Once the Khdars got here - if they loved us and this nation they would have stayed and forgotten the past. Instead they just used us - There - that's my real thought put in a focused manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radsickle Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 What part of Canadians don't you understand.....not to mention basic math. Canadians that voted in the last election is what I'm talking about. Of those that voted, less than 40% chose Harper's goons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radsickle Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 (edited) I guess we could also say that a greater majority also did not want Layton, or Dion period.... Actually, the lesser amount of voters did not want the alternative. It's simple math: less than 40% for the Conservative Party, more than 50% for THE OTHER GUYS. For those math-challenged, Layton + Dion is greater than Harper. And Omar in the same place as the stupid men that fired upon approaching Afghan and American forces DOES NOT EQUAL automatic guilt. Edited December 2, 2008 by Radsickle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 I guess we could also say that a greater majority also did not want Layton, or Dion period.... Actually, the lesser amount of voters did not want the alternative. It's simple math: less than 40% for the Conservative Party, more than 50% for THE OTHER GUYS. For those math-challenged, Layton + Dion is greater than Harper. I get the math and for those that refuse to believe thier equation works both ways. Harper + Layton =greater than Dion, meaning The vast majority did not want Dion or Layton in power depending on who you use in the equation...., if you want to combine party numbers...... And Omar in the same place as the stupid men that fired upon approaching Afghan and American forces DOES NOT EQUAL automatic guilt. And i suppose the AK-47 found a few feet away from where Omar was found was not his either....But i guess we will never know, you see in combat there is no time to gather evidance for a court case IE finger prints, DNA off wpns etc...In combat you are guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people ....He knew in advance that this seris of huts were used to create IED's, he had been there before that much is proven from the tape that was found....on this tape he has stated he made IED's, even a filmed himself and others planting them on a road not far from these mud huts....This is a terrorist activity, unlike in civilian law, in combat a soldier can proscute a terrorist with up to and including deadly force at anytime....not just at the time of the crime...So he may not be guilty of throwing a grenade, or even firing a wpn during the attack in question....however this tape does prove he is guilty of terrorist activities. Do i think his case is being handle properly, NO i do not, i think he should have been declared a enemy combatant and locked up until the conflict is over...however, i'm not in charge and it is only my personal opinion which counts for nothing in this case... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortunata Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 At 15 years old this was a young man, considering he started his career at much younger age, and the fact his culture sees him as such...At 15 he is very capable of knowing right from wrong , good side from bad side....he was very much aware of what he was doing.... I'm not sure about that. He was conditioned his whole life about what his family (father) thought was right. So what we think he should have known about right and wrong, was probably reversed. This wasn't a sophisticated world travelling family that had a whole lot of exposure to our right and wrong. He had exposure to the elements of islamic fundamentalism and all that goes with. If that's all you know that's all you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 I'm not sure about that. He was conditioned his whole life about what his family (father) thought was right. So what we think he should have known about right and wrong, was probably reversed. This wasn't a sophisticated world travelling family that had a whole lot of exposure to our right and wrong. He had exposure to the elements of islamic fundamentalism and all that goes with. If that's all you know that's all you know. OK , i'll buy the fact that he may or may not have been overly exposed to western moral values. But spending most of his life in Islamic countries, he must have been exposed to all of thier teachings, from the extreme views to include what we consider moderate. Also the group he was with knows what NATO considers right and wrong and the punsihments they can expect...for instance it is widely known that anyone caught planting IEDs is not expected to live thru that ordeal, it is taken very very serious by NATO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 Dear old Papa Khadr may not have been motivated by by extremist Islam - He could have been just a plain old hater..the trait of hate runs in some famlies. Back in the 50s one of my fathers Russian friends was odd..and different than his other buddies...It took me years to figure out what motivated old Boris......It was pure unbirdled hate for everything and everyone. His son was one of my best childhood friends ....and he hated all races - all religions and all things - He went on to train his son who is now in his early 20s to hate.. In the end my childhood friend slowly died from cancer...He hated to the very end and hated the idea of God the most - I abandoned this hater on his death bed - he hated himself to death. Khadr may just be a part of intergenerational hate - a family tradition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortunata Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 Army Guy, the whole problem with this is we don't know what he was or wasn't exposed to in relation to moderation. If the comments of his mother and sister are any indication there was no moderation preached or practiced. And we don't know how much Omar took in, I mean how much did you really pay attention to when you were a child, youth, even as a young adult. We take for granted things which we are surrounded with and not until we hit a rebellious questioning stage, at about university age, do we really start to question what is considered the norm around us. We're very lucky here to have differences of opinion surrounding us. That makes us question. I don't know that Khadr did up to that point in his life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Canadians that voted in the last election is what I'm talking about. Of those that voted, less than 40% chose Harper's goons. Then you should have stated as much. Sometimes I get really bored and wait for someone to trip up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radsickle Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 (edited) Then you should have stated as much. Sometimes I get really bored and wait for someone to trip up. It's fun to mock those that trip but there is very limited power in this sort of `cleverness'. It's a vulture's position; a position of apathy until the `right moment'. Otherwise known as `passive aggressive'. :angry: How about we stay on topic, eh? Edited December 4, 2008 by Radsickle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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