RCMP Arrest Environment Canada employee

[scribblet]

The only thing this is an example of is the arrogance of some left wing eco type who thought that his opinion was more important than the government's and decided to use his job working for the government to fight the government that employed him. Stupid thing to do. Have a fun time on the pogey line.

to put it bluntly

The person is not a whistlebower, he didn't do it out of a sense of doing what is best for the country, but more likely that he was following his own twisted sense of right or wrong. This person was in a position of trust, he likely signed a confidentiality agreement, so he betrayed the trust and agreement. No way he can be construed as a whistle blower.

[noahbody]

to put it bluntly

The person is not a whistlebower, he didn't do it out of a sense of doing what is best for the country, but more likely that he was following his own twisted sense of right or wrong. This person was in a position of trust, he likely signed a confidentiality agreement, so he betrayed the trust and agreement. No way he can be construed as a whistle blower.

Well said. It is sad so many are more concerned with right and left versus right and wrong.

[Michael Bluth]

Well said. It is sad so many are more concerned with right and left versus right and wrong.

Exactly.

Whistle blowers report law breaking.

This guy didn't agree with Government policy. Too bad.

How come the starter of this thread is keeping mum?

[normanchateau]

How come the starter of this thread is keeping mum?

What's a hateocracy?

[Argus]

In Argusworld, the colours of the rainbow become black & white - or is that pink & white?

The RCMP never make mistakes and always operate as an objective, independent organization above political influence.

I've criticised the RCMP on numerous occasions. The difference is that in Argusworld we don't condemn without having at least some information. In Augustworld paranoia appears to be sufficient to condemn their behaviour even though you've already admitted you have not one damned idea whether what they did was appropriate or not, whether the employee was guilty or not, and what the law may or may not be.

Civil servants are beyond reproach unlike those untrustworthy contractual employees whose only allegiance is to some dodgy temporary services company.

I don't believe I've ever suggested such a thing. Although civil servants tend to have been screened somewhat more thoroughly than contractors, especially those with access to sensitive information.

Incompetence is a fact of life and there is just as much incompetence in government circles as in any other.

Thanks for taking that brave stand, which does nothing more than echo what I said already. My point was not that there is no incompetence, but that contrary to your own somewhat bitterly expressed views public servants are not all incompetent.

Fairly obvious? You meant that the distinction is, uh, not obvious? In Argusworld?

Fairly obvious to those not wrapped up in their own bitterness and resentment towards public servants.

Were you fired from a government position by any chance, August? Or simply envious of those who have them?

[scribblet]

Funny how the original story is now being spun...

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

Gov't staffer arrested in alleged leak of green plan

is now a witch hunt ROTFL

http://ottsun.canoe.ca/News/National/2007/...pf-4167883.html

May 10, 2007

'Witch hunt' slammed

But Tories defend arrest of whistleblower

By ALAN FINDLAY, NATIONAL BUREAU

The handcuffing and arrest of an Environment Canada contractor at work for allegedly leaking a secret government draft has prompted accusations the Conservatives are sending bureaucrats a chilling message.

.

[normanchateau]

I've criticised the RCMP on numerous occasions.

Indeed you have and they were valid criticisms.

[Fortunata]

This chappie probably didn't consult with the psychick/stylist long enough and got the message confused. To leak or not to leak ... that was the question. Others have leaked documents from this government but didn't get led away in handcuffs (so heavy handed it's just laughably ridiculous). The Steve government's tactics smack of USSR ploys in so many ways (as has been mentioned here already). Take a good look at the whole clean air thing .... their pitbull stands up and says in no way does our policy indicate we don't support Kyoto while at the same time giving industry the go-ahead to emit more with their intensity based bullshyte? I mean come on people, how can you not laugh at this government?

[normanchateau]

This chappie probably didn't consult with the psychick/stylist long enough and got the message confused. To leak or not to leak ... that was the question. Others have leaked documents from this government but didn't get led away in handcuffs (so heavy handed it's just laughably ridiculous). The Steve government's tactics smack of USSR ploys in so many ways (as has been mentioned here already). Take a good look at the whole clean air thing .... their pitbull stands up and says in no way does our policy indicate we don't support Kyoto while at the same time giving industry the go-ahead to emit more with their intensity based bullshyte? I mean come on people, how can you not laugh at this government?

They also suppress Environment Canada employees who write fictional novels on their own time with themes relating to global warming. Laughable as well.

[scribblet]

If anyone watched Don Newman on CBC, they did some research on this guy.

They told us he is a radical anarchist who disagrees strongly (to put it mildly, maybe its normie - ) with govt policies. So much so the he leaked this document which was clearly marked 'Secret' .He's also the founder of an anarchist bookstore in Ottawa - big chip on his shoulder, so obviously he has an axe to grind. The RCMP did their job well.

[normanchateau]

If anyone watched Don Newman on CBC, they did some research on this guy.

They told us he is a radical anarchist who disagrees strongly with govt policies.

A RADICAL anarchist, not even the usual garden variety anarchist...

[Wilber]

It amazes me that there are people who think it is OK for an employee to release an employer's confidential information to suit their own personal objectives. Damned if I'd hire any of them and they would be gone in a heartbeat if I ever did made that mistake.

[Michael Bluth]

I like how Nathan Cullen is trying to paint this guy as a whistle blower.

NDP environment critic Nathan Cullen said whoever leaked the information could be seen as a whistleblower.

"If the government has come forward and decided to break its own international commitments and an employee of the government says the government is about to break the international law — one can construe that as whistleblowing."

Nathan, buddy, you are conveniently missing one huge point.

There was no attempt to cover anything up. The Government was planning on announcing the new policy wihtin a week of the leak. No way this guy qualifies as a whistle blower.

Try and be a little less partisan Nathan.

[August1991]

It amazes me that there are people who think it is OK for an employee to release an employer's confidential information to suit their own personal objectives. Damned if I'd hire any of them and they would be gone in a heartbeat if I ever did made that mistake.

And you'd be quite right, Wilber. I can understand why an employer would want to have a minimum of loyalty from an employee.

But this is the government - or rather, this is a really big bureaucracy.

So far, all we know is that some guy was lead out of an office in handcuffs. He has not been charged with any crime. There are claims that he is a "radical anarchist". I'm afraid that when this is all sorted out in several years or so, after the judicial enquiry and so on, we the taxpayers will have to pick up the tab for a wrongful dismissal suit - as well as the legal fees on both sides.

For all we know, some bureaucrat fingered this guy and the minister and the RCMP went along. Who knows?

Fairly obvious to those not wrapped up in their own bitterness and resentment towards public servants.

Were you fired from a government position by any chance, August? Or simply envious of those who have them?

I'll bite at the bait on this Argus. I resigned from government service in part because I took the confines of loyalty too seriously. (I did this voluntarily, giving up several good offers to stay.)

Let me be straight about this.

I happen to think that no one should work as a civil servant unless they are prepared to give an absolute allegiance to the public good, as defined by the government and the laws and regulations. Any breach or even the appearance of a breach should be grounds for immediate dismissal. But then again, I also happen to think the number of civil servants should be greatly reduced. IOW, the issue of allegiance shouldn't be an issue at all.

The Canadian federal government is too big and it tries to do too many things. The end result is situations like this one. And they will become more common in the future.

Bureaucrats will leak information, or use it for their personal advantage, and then the senior bureaucrats or politicians will introduce harsher measures. They will find scapegoats or sacrifial lambs. The bureaucracy will suffer under even more ridiculous rules, secrecy guidelines, expense controls. There will be bureaucrats to control the bureaucrats who control the bureaucrats.

If you haven't seen this movie, it's called "The Soviet Union". And the end result will be the same.

Government bureaucracy as it exists now in Ottawa is a phenomenon of the past 40 years. I don't think it will survive this century.

----

To get back to this thread title, I notice most posters seem to divide on partisan grounds. If they like Harper, this arrest is proper and good. If they dislike Harper, this arrest is a sign of the Tories' environmental incompetence, paranoia or incipient fascism.

I was trying to take another tack to the event.

I'll only add that the environment ministry is becoming as sensitive as finance. I think that's a good thing.

[betsy]

Didn't the Tories once call these people "whistle blowers" when they revealed information on the Liberal government?

A "whistle-blower" is someone who reveals or draw attention to a criminal or highly suspicious activity.

It does not include leaking the policy of the government (just because you don't agree to the said policy)....an act which in itself, I think, is against the law.

[Wilber]

And you'd be quite right, Wilber. I can understand why an employer would want to have a minimum of loyalty from an employee.

It's not loyalty August, it's professionalism.

[Canuck E Stan]

A RADICAL anarchist, not even the usual garden variety anarchist...

Toronto Star

At the same time, Monaghan was helping to open an anarchist bookstore in downtown Ottawa that lists as its beliefs ``egalitarianism, co-operation and a collective struggle against abuses of power."

The Suicide Pilots

It's all about opportunity and timing and Jeff Monaghan,who in a hundred years would not get this kind of free publicity for the new book store he is opening up in Ottawa or for the publicity for his punk band.

Once again, it's all about self promotion,it's all about moving your personal cause forward, and Jeff played it to his advantage.

[August1991]

It's all about opportunity and timing and Jeff Monaghan,who in a hundred years would not get this kind of free publicity for the new book store he is opening up in Ottawa or for the publicity for his punk band.

Once again, it's all about self promotion,it's all about me, and Jeff played it to his advantage.

Let the RCMP lay charges and then let the Crown Prosecutor present the charges in court. Until then, it's all hearsay.

I'm not defending this guy and I'm not saying that Harper's a right wing, eco-neanderthal.

IMV, this is a dispute within political-bureaucratic circles. I wonder how much innocent individuals will suffer personally, how much we, as taxpayers, will have to fork over and whether this is really the best way to protect the public interest.

If the purpose is to ensure Canada's environment for future generations, I don't think this supposed leaker has achieved his goal. Instead, he's just made the institution of government more suspect in the eyes of ordinary Canadians.

[geoffrey]

Instead, he's just made the institution of government more suspect in the eyes of ordinary Canadians.

Perhaps if he really is an anarchist, that was exactly his intention.

[Wilber]

Instead, he's just made the institution of government more suspect in the eyes of ordinary Canadians.

Perhaps if he really is an anarchist, that was exactly his intention.

Good point.

Government and the people are the victims here. His actions have made the institution of the civil service more suspect in the eyes of ordinary Canadians. Can any of them be trusted to put my or the rest of the public's interest ahead of their own personal agendas? If I was a civil servant, I would be some PO'd about that.

This guy has the protection of the laws anarchists profess not to believe in whether he is charged or not. It amazes me that there are those who rush to defend his actions. Do we really want a civil service where every member is free to act according to their own personal beliefs and agendas regardless of the wishes of the people and their government? That truly is anarchy.

[speaker]

do we want a civil service where everyone is free to act according to their own personal beliefs , which would be anarchy..... or one in which we are not free which would be, let's see ... conservatism.

[normanchateau]

In today's Vancouver Sun, Stephane Dion is described as defending the government's position on this issue:

"Baird said on Wednesday the arrest sent a message that public servants have a duty and responsibility to protect confidential information, dismissing suggestions that Monaghan was a whistleblower. The RCMP said he could be charged under the Criminal Code for violating workplace security clearance.

Liberal Leader Stephane Dion has defended the government's position, but the NDP compared the tactics to Nineteen Eighty-Four, the fictional novel by George Orwell.

"Canadians remember the good old dark days when the Conservative government simply fired whistleblowers and public servants who did not agree with government policy," said NDP environment critic Nathan Cullen in the Commons. "Now, the government simply calls in the police and puts them in handcuffs."

Monaghan (the fired civil servant)described the government's approach as hypocritical.

"Our society knows the threat presented by the changing climate, global warming, and the rapidly increasing growth of industrial emissions. We deserve real action, not cynically calculated PR campaigns and witch hunts on public servants."

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/st...534b66e0c32&p=2

Doesn't Stephane understand the concept of hypocrisy? He needs to say the opposite of what he believes now then he can flip flop AFTER becoming Prime Minister. It worked for Stephen.

[Michael Bluth]

do we want a civil service where everyone is free to act according to their own personal beliefs , which would be anarchy..... or one in which we are not free which would be, let's see ... conservatism.

kinda lost me there

What freedoms should civil service employees have?

The freedom to leak government policy if they disagree with it?

[scribblet]

kinda lost me there

What freedoms should civil service employees have?

The freedom to leak government policy if they disagree with it?

Certainly not, no employee is free to leak confidential information to others, what if it had been personal information or income tax information etc. Besides, do we not except at least some standard of ethical behaviour from employees.

A whistle blower is one who divulges illegal activities, this was not an illegal activity and would be public a few days later. IMO the guy had intent to try and bring down the gov't by taking this job, I think the temp agency which hired him did the background check, no criminal record was there. Just because you don't agree with gov't policy doesn't give you the right to leak confidential information.

[Wilber]

"Canadians remember the good old dark days when the Conservative government simply fired whistleblowers and public servants who did not agree with government policy," said NDP environment critic Nathan Cullen in the Commons. "Now, the government simply calls in the police and puts them in handcuffs."

Cullen is an idiot but then he will never have to rely on the integrity of the civil service because his party will never form a government.