One for Mikedavid

[Hydraboss]

I think I found what Mikedavid has been complaining about (except for the taking of Canadian jobs part), and I thought I would post it. It actually makes quite a lot of sense to me, and demonstrates the problem with part of the Canadian legal/immigration system.

To note: This was emailed to me and I do not know the source.

Let's say I break into your house:

A woman wrote the best 'Letter to the Editor' in ages!! She cuts to the chase

quick and explains things better than all the baloney you hear on TV. Her

letter said:

Recently, large demonstrations have taken place across the country

protesting the fact that parliment is finally addressing the issue of

illegal immigration. Certain people are angry that Canada might actually

want to protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this

country and, once here, make it harder (as an illegal immigrant) to stay

indefinitely.

Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.

Let's say I break into your house. Then, when you discover me in your

house, you insist that I leave. But I say, 'I've made all the beds and

washed the dishes and done the laundry and swept the floors; I've done all

the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest

(except for when I broke into your house).

According to the protesters, not only must you let me stay, you must add

me to your family's insurance plan, educate my kids, and provide other

benefits to me and to my family (my husband will do your yard work)

because he too is hard-working and honest, except for that breaking-in

part.

If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who

will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my illegal right to be

there.

It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and

I'm just trying to better myself. I'm hard-working and honest, um, except

for well, you know. And what a deal it is for me!!

I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep,

and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of

selfishness, prejudice and being an anti-housebreaker. Oh yeah, and I want

you to learn my language so you can communicate with me! English is too

hard for me to learn. You should also allow me to vote - in my own

language, since I live in your house!

Why can't people see how ridiculous this is? Only in Canada

Is this how people are viewing the immigration system and is this the source of their frustration? I believe it is.

[BubberMiley]

Seems to me like it was an American email that someone clumsily altered to make it apply to Canada. There haven't been mass protests across the country here and it isn't nearly as big an issue.

[August1991]

I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of selfishness, prejudice and being an anti-housebreaker. Oh yeah, and I want you to learn my language so you can communicate with me! English is too hard for me to learn. You should also allow me to vote - in my own language, since I live in your house!

This example is based on zero-sum thinking. The scenario of a house is key.

There is only so much space available in your house and if a foreigner moves in, that means less space for you.

Canadian and American history amply demonstrate that life is not a zero-sum game. A good marriage is perhaps better proof.

[Leafless]

Seems to me like it was an American email that someone clumsily altered to make it apply to Canada. There haven't been mass protests across the country here and it isn't nearly as big an issue.

In Canada we protest against federal government abusing legal immigration without the proper infrastructure and immigrant integration conversion process with the net result turning major Canadian cities into slums.

[Fat Freddie]

Seems to me like it was an American email that someone clumsily altered to make it apply to Canada. There haven't been mass protests across the country here and it isn't nearly as big an issue.

I see you are from Winnipeg BubberMiley. In the real world, the West and in Ontario, we have this exact problem. No matter that this email may have originated in the USA, it's still a valid way to point out the obvious. I believe in immigration, but only when those coming here are following the proper rules, not the one created by the Liberals to let uneducated 3rd world runners enter through the back door. Since we are using a housing metaphor, let me just say that the only way any immigrant should enter Canada is with the proper key, and through the front door. Anyone trying to get in without the knowledge of how to use the key and which door they are supposed to enter through, should be loaded up and sent back to their point of origin. I don't care if they are on a death list back home or that they will be whipped upon entry to their home. All I know is that Vancouver and Toronto are over run with illegals and they need to just get their asses out of Canada and try using the front door. If they don't fit the requirements for entry, let them go to the USA and try there.

[BubberMiley]

In this "real world" you speak of, how do you know they're illegal?

[Charles Anthony]

I believe in immigration, but only when those coming here are following the proper rules,

Why? I do not even know that "the proper rules" are. Do you?

Since we are using a housing metaphor, let me just say that the only way any immigrant should enter Canada is with the proper key, and through the front door. Anyone trying to get in without the knowledge of how to use the key and which door they are supposed to enter through, should be loaded up and sent back to their point of origin.

The trouble with using dramatic explanations is that some of your audience may not need them nor be impressed with the over-simplifications. Some people actually live side by side with immigrants and actually learn the fine details of their lives.

[guyser]

with the net result turning major Canadian cities into slums.

Yea...? ...which ones Leafless?

[Argus]

I believe in immigration, but only when those coming here are following the proper rules,

Why? I do not even know that "the proper rules" are. Do you?

Since we are using a housing metaphor, let me just say that the only way any immigrant should enter Canada is with the proper key, and through the front door. Anyone trying to get in without the knowledge of how to use the key and which door they are supposed to enter through, should be loaded up and sent back to their point of origin.

The trouble with using dramatic explanations is that some of your audience may not need them nor be impressed with the over-simplifications. Some people actually live side by side with immigrants and actually learn the fine details of their lives.

Yup. I did that for twenty years. Got to be on a first-name basis with lots of cops, got to hear sirens on a multiple times a day basis too. Stabbings to the left of me, shootings to the right, gang fights in the field outside the schools behind, kidnapping in the park in front of me, all salted with a healthy dose of swarmings, screaming family fights, vandalism, public urination, theft, bad smells, food thrown into hallways, fires set inside apartments... ah yes, the wonderful multiltural experience of living among immigrants!

[M.Dancer]

Yup. I did that for twenty years. Got to be on a first-name basis with lots of cops, got to hear sirens on a multiple times a day basis too. Stabbings to the left of me, shootings to the right, gang fights in the field outside the schools behind, kidnapping in the park in front of me, all salted with a healthy dose of swarmings, screaming family fights, vandalism, public urination, theft, bad smells, food thrown into hallways, fires set inside apartments... ah yes, the wonderful multiltural experience of living among immigrants!

Actually I would say you were living in the slums amongst poor people.....

[guyser]

Actually I would say you were living in the slums amongst poor people.....

And I would agree. Perhaps all the residents wore those laminated "all access " passes with all their birth details on them.

Argus, I could show you numerous apt building like that. And I could show you numerous apt buildings that work just fine, and they have some immigrants in them.

[blueblood]

Actually I would say you were living in the slums amongst poor people.....

And I would agree. Perhaps all the residents wore those laminated "all access " passes with all their birth details on them.

Argus, I could show you numerous apt building like that. And I could show you numerous apt buildings that work just fine, and they have some immigrants in them.

It's not that I haven't an immigrant problem, i have a skid problem. Which I hope would explain other's position on this. I think if you want into Canada, you should meet standards and come in where needed. For example in my town there are 2 doctors from South Africa, a Dentist from India, and one of the pharmicists is from Pakistan, I don't have a problem with that as we need all the help we can get and those mentioned have no problems in spite of living an a hillbilly backwater town. I don't like the white trash though, and other skids of different stripes. I don't like skids coming off the boat and sponging off the system. If your an immigrant and open up a store, more power to you, but if your coming to leech services, don't bother coming.

[Leafless]

Yup. I did that for twenty years. Got to be on a first-name basis with lots of cops, got to hear sirens on a multiple times a day basis too. Stabbings to the left of me, shootings to the right, gang fights in the field outside the schools behind, kidnapping in the park in front of me, all salted with a healthy dose of swarming, screaming family fights, vandalism, public urination, theft, bad smells, food thrown into hallways, fires set inside apartments... ah yes, the wonderful multicultural experience of living among immigrants!

Actually I would say you were living in the slums amongst poor people.....

That is BS. Your labelling of poor people as slum dwellers is uncalled for and only proves how arrogant you are.

Cities stuff uncultured ethnic immigrants or troublesome welfare cases into housing anywhere they can find it.

This is what makes finding accommodation tricky in Canadian cities where price alone does not dictate deluxe accommodation in rental units or even regular housing.

We found this out one time renting a deluxe townhouse, only to find out at a later time the adjacent units on both sides of us were occupied by a multitude of students sharing the rent, all with five sets of friends who visited on a regular basis.

What a hole that was.

But then again, since we are all equal in this country there are no grounds for complaint.

[ScottSA]

I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of selfishness, prejudice and being an anti-housebreaker. Oh yeah, and I want you to learn my language so you can communicate with me! English is too hard for me to learn. You should also allow me to vote - in my own language, since I live in your house!

This example is based on zero-sum thinking. The scenario of a house is key.

There is only so much space available in your house and if a foreigner moves in, that means less space for you.

Canadian and American history amply demonstrate that life is not a zero-sum game. A good marriage is perhaps better proof.

I take it then that you are arguing that illegal immigration is a good and righteous thing?

[Argus]

Yup. I did that for twenty years. Got to be on a first-name basis with lots of cops, got to hear sirens on a multiple times a day basis too. Stabbings to the left of me, shootings to the right, gang fights in the field outside the schools behind, kidnapping in the park in front of me, all salted with a healthy dose of swarmings, screaming family fights, vandalism, public urination, theft, bad smells, food thrown into hallways, fires set inside apartments... ah yes, the wonderful multiltural experience of living among immigrants!

Actually I would say you were living in the slums amongst poor people.....

It was a Minto building, very middle-class, until the local vacancy rate convinced Minto to take a deal with the city to turn over a certain percentage of that development housing refugees. After that, even when Minto stopped the deal - well, it was like once you get a certain number of a certain ethnic group, all sorts of other members want to move in too to be together, and Whites, once they've seen that, and seen what that has done to local schools, leave and don't return. Also, that riding has the highest percentage of Muslims of any in Ontario - which means Canada. It's Dalton McGuinty's riding, in case you wonder.

[mikedavid00]

I think I found what Mikedavid has been complaining about (except for the taking of Canadian jobs part), and I thought I would post it. It actually makes quite a lot of sense to me, and demonstrates the problem with part of the Canadian legal/immigration system.

YES!

I'm goign to go nuts!! I bang on the immigration drum because it's the #1 thing that is bankrupting our country in almost every concievable way.

Immigration policy is good. Letting people wander out of the airports each day with no job prospects is not.

Someone once wrote that if we had an actual work permit style policy, we'd probably have about 20,000 guest workers each year mostly from Mexico, Jamaica, and Portrugal to work the low paying jobs that Canada needs workers for.

We have FAR too much backlog of grads and unemployed/underemployed Canadians waiting for white colar jobs.

We've grown only in population, not in personal household standard of living. Poverty is higher than ever. The answer is not to let 300,000 aliens wander into Canada each year to re-unite with their families and use benefits.

That is only to get the Liberal party of Canada votes.

[mikedavid00]

I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of selfishness, prejudice and being an anti-housebreaker. Oh yeah, and I want you to learn my language so you can communicate with me! English is too hard for me to learn. You should also allow me to vote - in my own language, since I live in your house!

This example is based on zero-sum thinking. The scenario of a house is key.

There is only so much space available in your house and if a foreigner moves in, that means less space for you.

Canadian and American history amply demonstrate that life is not a zero-sum game. A good marriage is perhaps better proof.

Oh here we go.

The walls of our house is our infrastructure, healthcare, and welfare state.

Right now there are so many pepople pusing in the house that the walls are crumbling.

Our country isn't limitless. It's very limited just like any other country.

[mikedavid00]

Yup. I did that for twenty years. Got to be on a first-name basis with lots of cops, got to hear sirens on a multiple times a day basis too. Stabbings to the left of me, shootings to the right, gang fights in the field outside the schools behind, kidnapping in the park in front of me, all salted with a healthy dose of swarmings, screaming family fights, vandalism, public urination, theft, bad smells, food thrown into hallways, fires set inside apartments... ah yes, the wonderful multiltural experience of living among immigrants!

I grew up in Ottawa and saw it change with large group of welfare indolets came in and ruined the city. It's unreal how much trouble they got in with the police. Cop cars and so many domestic disputes. It was unreal.

They were almost like animals.

How could we ever allow this to happen to ourselves?

[M.Dancer]

Also, that riding has the highest percentage of Muslims of any in Ontario - which means Canada. It's Dalton McGuinty's riding, in case you wonder.

Ummm..yeah sure. Muslims tend to be very industrious ambitious people. Why on earth would they flock to Ottawa?

Sorry, don't buy it.

[M.Dancer]

As I suspected, the claimis false. I find that Don Valley West has 30% more muslims than ottaw south....

[Catchme]

Yup. I did that for twenty years. Got to be on a first-name basis with lots of cops, got to hear sirens on a multiple times a day basis too. Stabbings to the left of me, shootings to the right, gang fights in the field outside the schools behind, kidnapping in the park in front of me, all salted with a healthy dose of swarmings, screaming family fights, vandalism, public urination, theft, bad smells, food thrown into hallways, fires set inside apartments... ah yes, the wonderful multiltural experience of living among immigrants!

I grew up in Ottawa and saw it change with large group of welfare indolets came in and ruined the city. It's unreal how much trouble they got in with the police. Cop cars and so many domestic disputes. It was unreal.

They were almost like animals.

How could we ever allow this to happen to ourselves?

How do you know they were on welfare? The sights and sounds he decribes could be any city that I have been in, recently. And it was "white" people doing all that stuff.

I have a hard time believing this over the top rhetoric and likening people to animals. It might be okay to voice those things in your peer group, but perhaps that where it should stay?

As it sounds as if it is straight out of the Rushdooney, Dobson, Blackwell et al handbooks of fostering hate through indoctrination..

[mikedavid00]

As it sounds as if it is straight out of the Rushdooney, Dobson, Blackwell et al handbooks of fostering hate through indoctrination..

Sure I can liken people to animals. It's a free country and it's my opinion.

Well there's no such thing as free country really...

But nonetheless I have a right to feel the way I want about who I want.

Naturally, becuase it doesn't agree with your viewpoints or 'sound nice', you choose the typical Canadian/CBC route of censorship instead of tackling the core of the issue - aliens entering into a city with the majority on welfare and upping the crime rate. (and yes I've posted numbers and articles to back this in the past).

Instead though, I'm the problem - not them.

[M.Dancer]

Naturally, becuase it doesn't agree with your viewpoints or 'sound nice', you choose the typical Canadian/CBC route of censorship instead of tackling the core of the issue - aliens entering into a city with the majority on welfare and upping the crime rate. (and yes I've posted numbers and articles to back this in the past).

Instead though, I'm the problem - not them.

Couple of points....

1)No one has censored you although I'm sure you would be proud to be a martyr.

2)I believe it has been shown otherwise regarding the "majority" on welfare.

3)You are entitled to your opoinion just as those who consider your opinion worthless are entitled to theirs.

[betsy]

I agree with the email. Besides, where does that leave all those immigrant-wanna be who had patiently followed the rules by the book...and are waiting in line?

Illegal immigrants ought ot be sent back...and told to follow procedures.

[mikedavid00]

2)I believe it has been shown otherwise regarding the "majority" on welfare.

That is false.

I was talking about Samoli's in Ottawa where it was proven that the vast, vast majority of these refugees were on welfare. I didn't say immigrants in general go on welfare. Although they do use our social services.