Stockwell Day

[Topaz]

As someone who is in accounting Geoffrey, you must have seen how organizations and business squirrel away documents. I have seven years worth. The oldest of those documents didn't make the move to my new house. At least the documents stayed with someone in the family. I don't know about you but I don't want my past loans and other stuff left for the new people coming in.

Oh yes, they squirrel them away no doubt. But you think that a party hellbent on finding any gap in the crediability of their opponent (which all parties are) would hire someone to take a look in those massive boxes in the basement?

It showed the document on the TV and on " Duffy," the first time this came, the RCMP had no proof and this time the document left behind by the Cons is in the guy hand writing who was paid off and the document says so. He said, either got paid or he wan't leaving the party.

[gc1765]

This RCMP investigation is much ado about nothing. If they really wanted maximum impact they should have released it during the campaign.

If they did that, don't you think the Conservatives would accuse the Liberals of playing politics? Should scandals only surface during election campaigns?

[gc1765]

If this came from Iggy or Dion or someone respectable, I'd give it more thought. From the mouthpeice (or asshole) of the Liberal party, I'm going to need a lot more proof.

Would you beleve it if it came from Preston Manning?

[Catchme]

There was no one in the Office of the Leader of the Official Opposition, until after the Liberal Leadership convention. Then Dion would've had to close up his office and get ready to move into the new digs. It is most assuredly feasible that the documents were just recently found.

Stockwell had better be stepping aside, as the RCMP did not have enough proof to go further, prior to this, on the investigation. Now they do! Moreover, apparently they used Leader of the Opposition money to pay him off, which is public money, eh?!

Another page, a motion allegedly voted on by the Canadian Alliance's governing body, approves payment of $20,000 to Hart to pay his living expenses while he waited to start another job. The motion said the intention was that the party pay half the amount, and the Office of the Leader of the Opposition pay the other half.

Holland pointed out that the opposition leader's office costs are paid with public funds. He said Day should resign his cabinet post until the matter is resolved by the RCMP.

"These allegations are indeed very serious," Holland said. "Someone who is responsible for our lead law-enforcement agency, I think it's incumbent upon him to step down until such time as these allegations are answered."

Now why did Harper leave them behind would be a good question? Or did they just innocently get lost in the shuffle from Day's era? Or both?

Nonetheless, Day should be stepping aside.

[kimmy]

They said on the radio that documents are all over the building. In closets, in storage rooms, basement etc.

Sounds like an episode of Scooby Doo Mysteries.

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if they did negotiate something before hand. I wouldn't be surprised if basically the same thing happens every time representative in a safe riding resigns to make way for a big-name player who needs a seat in a legislative assembly. The only thing I find surprising is that they were dumb enough to leave a paper trail.

I see it as a violation of the letter of the law, but also something we know happens behind the scenes, so in that sense, hardly the bombshell it's being made out to be.

-k

[Canadian Blue]

It doesn't really sound like a bribe. I don't think the average Canadian would be outraged to hear that an MP got a compensation package for stepping down earlier in order to let the leader run.

[gc1765]

It doesn't really sound like a bribe. I don't think the average Canadian would be outraged to hear that an MP got a compensation package for stepping down earlier in order to let the leader run.

What if they continued to lie about it (deny it)?

[Canadian Blue]

If they continue to lie then it's more of an outrage. But I don't see what the point of lying about it would be.

At the same time, I doubt a compensation package will really register with Canadian's. Look at Chretien, he was still popular even with the scandals he was involved in.

[gc1765]

If they continue to lie then it's more of an outrage. But I don't see what the point of lying about it would be.

I saw stockwell day on the news denying the incident. If it isn't a big deal, he should at least have the decency to admit it.

[Canadian Blue]

I'm not really sure of the specifics of it, however I'll be sure it read more into it. So far it doesn't seem like anything earth shattering, and if Stockwell Day did do something illegal then I would say he should step down. But until he has been proven guilty I'm not going to scream for anybodies blood.

The thing I hate about politics today, and I'm sure many others feel the same way, is that we hear every week some partisan hack of an MP calling for someone to step down based on speculation.

[gc1765]

I'm not really sure of the specifics of it, however I'll be sure it read more into it. So far it doesn't seem like anything earth shattering, and if Stockwell Day did do something illegal then I would say he should step down. But until he has been proven guilty I'm not going to scream for anybodies blood.

The thing I hate about politics today, and I'm sure many others feel the same way, is that we hear every week some partisan hack of an MP calling for someone to step down based on speculation.

I agree it would be nice to get some more information...like exactly what the documents are. The Liberals seem to be pretty sure that they have proof. As of now I have no reason to believe that they would simply make up such a wild accusation, and if it turns out that the whole accusation was a fabrication that will look very badly for the Liberals.

Apparently even Preston Manning agrees that compensation was paid, and that it was a mistake, but stockwell denies it.

[geoffrey]

Compensation was paid, they settled out of court for about $50k I think. The RCMP determined it wasn't an inducement, it was compensation for his lost income between stepping down and the next election (which actually financially works out).

I think the issue is whether compensation was paid from the Leader of the Opposition's office.

[jdobbin]

Compensation was paid, they settled out of court for about $50k I think. The RCMP determined it wasn't an inducement, it was compensation for his lost income between stepping down and the next election (which actually financially works out).

I think the issue is whether compensation was paid from the Leader of the Opposition's office.

I think the RCMP originally said they had no documentation to indicate that money was an inducement to step down.

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/195294

He was, they said, offered compensation as a severance package, never as an inducement to leave. Hart eventually sued over the details. The party settled two days after the 2000 federal campaign began, reportedly for $50,000, and signed a non-disclosure agreement with him.

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police probed the matter for nine months in 2001 and gave a preliminary report to Crown attorneys, who decided no criminal offence was committed by either Hart or the Alliance party.

But the Liberals now say RCMP at the time of their initial investigation did not see documents that surfaced this week.

[Michael Bluth]

I think the RCMP originally said they have no documentation to indicate that money was an inducement to step down.

For somebody whose *memory* helps them draw minute differences five years later you provide very little support. Interesting how your memory always makes the Conservatives look bad.

[Figleaf]

"Liberal MP Mark Holland said documents the party discovered last week raise new questions about whether Day's office negotiated payment to a sitting MP in exchange for his stepping aside in a B.C. riding"

Where did you hear that they have had access to it for 14 months?

They have been the official opposition for 14 months.

They *found* the documents in the offices of the Official Leader of the Opposition. They have had access to those offices for 14 months.

Unless somebody is alleging the Conservatives snuck back into the offices of the OLO and planted the documents.

Why do you say such simple-minded things? It's not in the least surprising that someone wouldn't immediately notice a particular document in a large office building.

[Figleaf]

This minor tempest in a teapot shows how bankrupt the Liberals are.

It's amazing your Party masters allow you to post this sort of thing ... it does nothing for Tory credibility when its ardent supporters appear (as you do) to think corrupt violations of the Criminal Code are inconsequential.

Mark Holland appears to be reviving the tradition of the rat pack.

Good for him!

[Figleaf]

It doesn't really sound like a bribe. I don't think the average Canadian would be outraged to hear that an MP got a compensation package for stepping down earlier in order to let the leader run.

If a legislator doesn't like the law, he should change it -- not just violate it.

Criminal Code:

119. (1) Every one who

(a) being the holder of a judicial office, or being a member of Parliament or of the legislature of a province, corruptly

(i) accepts or obtains,

(ii) agrees to accept, or

(iii) attempts to obtain,

any money, valuable consideration, office, place or employment for himself or another person in respect of anything done or omitted or to be done or omitted by him in his official capacity, or

(b} gives or offers, corruptly, to a person mentioned in paragraph (a) any money, valuable consideration, office, place or employment in respect of anything done or omitted or to be done or omitted by him in his official capacity for himself or another person,

is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years.

That is the section that applies to the MP who stepped down. There is another matching section that applies to the person doing the bribing.

Even if Stockwell is eventually found not to have been involved in the negotiations, it's obvious that he must not stay as the minister of the agency doing the investigation. He may not (yet) need to leave cabinet, but he MUST leave the portfolio.

[Canadian Blue]

Now people, so far there hasn't been any violation's of the criminal code, if there was I'm sure the RCMP would have laid charges.

[Figleaf]

Now people, so far there hasn't been any violation's of the criminal code, if there was I'm sure the RCMP would have laid charges.

Whether there have been violations of the Criminal Code is the very question that needs to be re-investigated in light of this new evidence. On it's face, it certainly conforms with the possibility of an offense.

[Canadian Blue]

Well let's wait for the RCMP to do it's job before coming to conclusion's.

[Figleaf]

Well let's wait for the RCMP to do it's job before coming to conclusion's.

Since it is clear that the RCMP do have a job to do here, it is therefore abundantly clear that Stockwell Day cannot remain as Minister in charge of the RCMP while they are doing it.

There is a recent example exactly on point -- Ontario minister of finance Sorbara stepping aside as minister responsible for the Ontario Securities Commission while they investigated a company he was involved with. He was ultimately cleared (as Stockwell could be) and returned to the cabinet.

[newbie]

Well let's wait for the RCMP to do it's job before coming to conclusion's.

Since it is clear that the RCMP do have a job to do here, it is therefore abundantly clear that Stockwell Day cannot remain as Minister in charge of the RCMP while they are doing it.

As I recall Goodale remained as Minister when the RCMP investigated him and his office.

[Figleaf]

Well let's wait for the RCMP to do it's job before coming to conclusion's.

Since it is clear that the RCMP do have a job to do here, it is therefore abundantly clear that Stockwell Day cannot remain as Minister in charge of the RCMP while they are doing it.

As I recall Goodale remained as Minister when the RCMP investigated him and his office.

See my editted post above. The difference is that Goodale wasn't minister for the RCMP.

[Canadian Blue]

I agree with that point Figleaf, it would be prudent for Stockwell Day to step down until the RCMP has completed it's investigation.

[Catchme]

Well let's wait for the RCMP to do it's job before coming to conclusion's.

Since it is clear that the RCMP do have a job to do here, it is therefore abundantly clear that Stockwell Day cannot remain as Minister in charge of the RCMP while they are doing it.

As I recall Goodale remained as Minister when the RCMP investigated him and his office.

See my editted post above. The difference is that Goodale wasn't minister for the RCMP.

No the difference is actually greater than the fact that that Stockwell runs the RCMP, the RCMP did NOT investigate Goodale as a matter of fact. There was never any consideration given to Goodale playing any part in the income trust.

"I believe that an investigation, as does he, will clear the air -- including the allegation as to whether or not a leak actually took place. The RCMP have said that there is no evidence of wrongdoing on Mr. Goodale's behalf, his office or his department."

Later in the afternoon, Goodale reiterated that he won't be stepping down during the criminal investigation.

"The RCMP have been very clear that they have no evidence -- and are not acting on any evidence -- in relation to any alleged conduct by me or by anyone else," Goodale told Report on Business Television

He added that he has conducted himself properly "from the very beginning."

Stockwell must step down, he cannot control those investigating his actions, simple as that.

Now that the RCMP have a paper trail they must be irreproachable in their investigations. If he is cleared, then he can step right back in.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...me=election2006