Stockwell Day

[jdobbin]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/day_accusation

Holland says documents indicate the party paid former MP Jim Hart at least $6,000 in compensation for stepping down.

And he says the documents suggest additional money may have been paid out of Day's federal office budget, potentially violating at least two Criminal Code statutes.

Don't know that the RCMP are involved yet but they said on the radio that they has asked to see the documents.

[Shakeyhands]

D'Oh!

The records were apparently left behind by the Conservatives in the offices of the official Opposition and found by the Liberals just last week.

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/194947

[jdobbin]

D'Oh!

The records were apparently left behind by the Conservatives in the offices of the official Opposition and found by the Liberals just last week.

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/194947

I didn't hear that part.

It's sad news for Day. I wonder if he has an explanation.

[geoffrey]

I'd like to see the documents before I say anything more.

Holland has a track record of being viciously opposed to anything with a Western Canadian connection, he's got a personal vendetta (Saturn like... in fact, I wouldn't be shocked if Saturn was Mark Holland) against all things West. If this came from Iggy or Dion or someone respectable, I'd give it more thought. From the mouthpeice (or asshole) of the Liberal party, I'm going to need a lot more proof.

Has he, or the party, called for the investigation? It's unclear.

We've seen more damning evidence of criminal activity by government Ministers like Scott Brison before, that was let to pass on by. I think the same will happen here. A few random e-mails and letters are not neccessarily evidence to a crime, they can be misunderstood. Much like the "good things are going to happen soon" e-mail from Brison to his Bay Street buddy.

Who knows?

Until I see the documents, or more evidence, I'm not going to comment past that. We've seen these things before (anyone remember Grewal and Dosanjh?).

[scribblet]

If I remember correctly this was allready investigated and all were cleared. The Libs must be pretty desperate to bring this up again.

[geoffrey]

If I remember correctly this was allready investigated and all were cleared. The Libs must be pretty desperate to bring this up again.

Mark Holland's concerns are with the wording of correspondance, much like Brison's insider trading e-mail. Nothing will likely come out of it, that said, I'd like to see the documents. Perhaps Holland has a point here.

With how much he talks on issues he knows nothing about, he's bound to get it right at least once a term.

[scribblet]

Holland is probably just trying to deflect from his rants about Alberta, nothing like starting a smear campaign prior to an election.

[MrsHughes]

Anyone with an hilarious name like Stockwell Day should be investigated.

I mean really.What kind of a name is Stockwell?

It has to be an alias. And a bad one at that

[jdobbin]

I'd like to see the documents before I say anything more.

I'd forgotten about the issue the first time the RCMP looked into and thought it was resolved. We'll see what the RCMP have to say about it. There might be a explanation but I'm sure people will have to be asked once again about what was paid and from where.

[jdobbin]

Holland is probably just trying to deflect from his rants about Alberta, nothing like starting a smear campaign prior to an election.

So you think it is nothing at all?

[Michael Bluth]

So you think it is nothing at all?

I wonder if there really was soemthing to it why the Liberals wouldn't have held on to it until the election.

Very interesting how they have had access to it for 14 months but are only making it public now.

[gc1765]

Very interesting how they have had access to it for 14 months but are only making it public now.

"Liberal MP Mark Holland said documents the party discovered last week raise new questions about whether Day's office negotiated payment to a sitting MP in exchange for his stepping aside in a B.C. riding"

Where did you hear that they have had access to it for 14 months?

[geoffrey]

They are just looking through the file cabinets now? Let's be realistic.

[jdobbin]

They are just looking through the file cabinets now? Let's be realistic.

They said on the radio that documents are all over the building. In closets, in storage rooms, basement etc.

The documents were discovered when party workers were moving boxes to storage.

As someone who is in accounting Geoffrey, you must have seen how organizations and business squirrel away documents. I have seven years worth. The oldest of those documents didn't make the move to my new house. At least the documents stayed with someone in the family. I don't know about you but I don't want my past loans and other stuff left for the new people coming in.

[geoffrey]

As someone who is in accounting Geoffrey, you must have seen how organizations and business squirrel away documents. I have seven years worth. The oldest of those documents didn't make the move to my new house. At least the documents stayed with someone in the family. I don't know about you but I don't want my past loans and other stuff left for the new people coming in.

Oh yes, they squirrel them away no doubt. But you think that a party hellbent on finding any gap in the crediability of their opponent (which all parties are) would hire someone to take a look in those massive boxes in the basement?

[jdobbin]

Oh yes, they squirrel them away no doubt. But you think that a party hellbent on finding any gap in the crediability of their opponent (which all parties are) would hire someone to take a look in those massive boxes in the basement?

I'm not even sure they knew they were there till now. It has been 13 years since the Liberals were in an Opposition building. I'm sure the Tories knew every nook and cranny but in the rush to get to the PMO, they didn't do a house cleaning before leaving.

In other words, I don't think the Liberals held onto this particular piece of info just for this particular day.

[Figleaf]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/day_accusation

Holland says documents indicate the party paid former MP Jim Hart at least $6,000 in compensation for stepping down.

And he says the documents suggest additional money may have been paid out of Day's federal office budget, potentially violating at least two Criminal Code statutes.

Don't know that the RCMP are involved yet but they said on the radio that they has asked to see the documents.

Bah. The RCMP already looked into the situation and rubberstamped it. Now that their reputation is on the line, they'll have to rubberstamp it again or admit they were wrong -- which they haven't done in living memory. (Despite how many wrongful convictions, dead suspects, and even some Mounties shot?)

[Figleaf]

Criminal Code:

119. (1) Every one who

(a) being the holder of a judicial office, or being a member of Parliament or of the legislature of a province, corruptly

(i) accepts or obtains,

(ii) agrees to accept, or

(iii) attempts to obtain,

any money, valuable consideration, office, place or employment for himself or another person in respect of anything done or omitted or to be done or omitted by him in his official capacity, or

(b} gives or offers, corruptly, to a person mentioned in paragraph (a) any money, valuable consideration, office, place or employment in respect of anything done or omitted or to be done or omitted by him in his official capacity for himself or another person,

is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years.

[Michael Bluth]

"Liberal MP Mark Holland said documents the party discovered last week raise new questions about whether Day's office negotiated payment to a sitting MP in exchange for his stepping aside in a B.C. riding"

Where did you hear that they have had access to it for 14 months?

They have been the official opposition for 14 months.

They *found* the documents in the offices of the Official Leader of the Opposition. They have had access to those offices for 14 months.

Unless somebody is alleging the Conservatives snuck back into the offices of the OLO and planted the documents.

In other words, I don't think the Liberals held onto this particular piece of info just for this particular day.

Because the Liberals have built such a strong reputation for honesty and integrity. Or just because you always interpet the actions of the Liberals in the best light possible and the actions of the Conservatives in the worst light possible?

[stignasty]

Holland said the Liberals recently found the documents in one of their offices — the Office of the Leader of the Opposition. The office used to be occupied by the Alliance, the Official Opposition from 2000 to 2003.

Among the documents the Liberals say they found was a fax allegedly written by Hart and sent to Glenn McMurray, former executive director of the Canadian Alliance. The fax, which outlines Hart's expectations for $50,000, was dated July 15, 2000, two days before he officially resigned.

In a followup memo, dated Aug. 22, 2000, Hart allegedly complains that he had only received $6,000 of his money.

"My resignation was contingent upon this negotiation," he allegedly wrote.

<snip>

The RCMP did look into similar complaints of a compensation package in 2001. At the time, the RCMP said there was not enough evidence to launch a formal investigation.

Hart has always maintained he stepped aside for personal reasons, not for financial gain. In 2000, he said he was resigning because the timing was right, as his wife was expecting a child.

Hart has since moved to the Republic of Georgia and could not be reached Thursday.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/03/22/day-riding.html

[stignasty]

The main document released Thursday, a fax penned by Hart, outlines the agreement he believed he had negotiated with Day's then chief-of-staff, Rod Love. In it, Hart notes that he would be compensated for lost severance, income and pension benefits for resigning his seat early, an amount totalling about $62,000.

At the time, party officials said Hart had already decided to quit the Commons for another job and left early to help out Day. They said the compensation was negotiated months later because Hart's job offer later fell through.

But Hart's first letter to Love detailing a compensation deal was dated two days before his actual resignation. He also made note of the job he was to start three months later, and states that he wouldn't have quit if compensation hadn't been agreed to beforehand.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

[scribblet]

Holland is probably just trying to deflect from his rants about Alberta, nothing like starting a smear campaign prior to an election.

So you think it is nothing at all?

No,the RCMPs never investigated it at the time because they found no grounds to do so.

Hart thought that he would be compensated for loss of income and given severance pay for resigning his seat early, this is not a payment to induce him to resign. Not only that, it appears he never got anything anyway and later took the party to court.

Obviously the Liberals have nothing else so they are again resorting to drive by smears. They should be careful as the CPC could release a lot more stuff on them.

[jdobbin]

Obviously the Liberals have nothing else so they are again resorting to drive by smears. They should be careful as the CPC could release a lot more stuff on them.

It would seem that the FAXes contradict what you are saying.

[Michael Bluth]

Obviously the Liberals have nothing else so they are again resorting to drive by smears. They should be careful as the CPC could release a lot more stuff on them.

It would seem that the FAXes contradict what you are saying.

It would seem you aren't answering the post.

This minor tempest in a teapot shows how bankrupt the Liberals are.

Mark Holland appears to be reviving the tradition of the rat pack.

This RCMP investigation is much ado about nothing. If they really wanted maximum impact they should have released it during the campaign.

If it comes down to it are the Liberals really shrewd to try and bring up corruption? This allegation pales in comparison to what Justice Gomery proved the Liberals did.

So sorry Mark...

[stignasty]

Obviously the Liberals have nothing else so they are again resorting to drive by smears. They should be careful as the CPC could release a lot more stuff on them.

So, if the CPC were to "release a lot more stuff on them," would that be okay? Or would that also constitute a drive-by smear? Was it a "smear" when the CPC in opposition rallied over the sponsorship scandal?

I would define a "smear" as an attack on character that is without any substance, such as saying "The Liberals care more about Taliban prisoners than they do about Canadian soldiers."

This on the other hand, seems to be a genuine question about whether or not the parties in question broke the law. While the timing may be suspicious, it doesn't fall under the same category as the Taliban comment. The worst that I would call this is political opportunism.

To cry foul about the so called smear on Stockwell Day and then not be bothered the Taliban comment only shows partisan hypocrisy.