Stephane Dion's deal with Elizabeth May in Nova Central

[sharkman]

Has anyone heard about a recent development regarding the Green party in Vancouver? Saturday's National Post has a story about Kevin Potvin, a Green candidate, who publishes a small paper there called The Republic of East Vancouver. In it he has related how elated he felt as 9/11 was occuring, and an urge to pump his fist in the air.

He also described the 2005 London subway bombings as not cowardly, despicable and unspeakable acts, but acts of war. He has also used his paper suggest the U.S. government had a hand in 9/11.

I would suggest that this will have negaitve impact on the Greens, and by extension, the Liberals for consorting with a party that has such whackos in it.

[ScottSA]

Has anyone heard about a recent development regarding the Green party in Vancouver? Saturday's National Post has a story about Kevin Potvin, a Green candidate, who publishes a small paper there called The Republic of East Vancouver. In it he has related how elated he felt as 9/11 was occuring, and an urge to pump his fist in the air.

He also described the 2005 London subway bombings as not cowardly, despicable and unspeakable acts, but acts of war. He has also used his paper suggest the U.S. government had a hand in 9/11.

I would suggest that this will have negaitve impact on the Greens, and by extension, the Liberals for consorting with a party that has such whackos in it.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=8656

[madmax]

May has demonstrated that she is a weak leader of a party that was hoping to make a breakthrough.

May is challenging Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay in his Central Nova riding, hoping to win her party's first seat in parliament.

The NDP has called the move undemocratic, and former party leader Ed Broadbent revealed Friday that May had called former Canadian ambassador to the UN Stephen Lewis to try and get him to broker a deal with New Democrat Leader Jack Layton.

She admitted she has been frustrated with Layton's lack of co-operation, and turned to her old friend Lewis to try and open up the lines of communication.

Stephen Lewis told her his view which is also the NDPs position.

"What the hell is wrong with Jack Layton that he can't answer a phone call?" she said on CTV's Question Period

I believe that Jack Layton has shown strength in Leadership with regards to these Liberal Style backroom antics.

From the Globe and Mail

The deal has also set off the NDP, which is accusing Ms. May of the most cynical kind of backroom politics after she approached former Canadian ambassador to the United Nations Stephen Lewis last month to help her broker an agreement with the New Democrats to work against the Conservatives.

The NDP would not play ball; Leader Jack Layton has refused to take her calls.

Here are Ed Broadbents comments.

An incensed Ed Broadbent, the former NDP leader known for his political integrity, said yesterday that Ms. May had been trying to broker a deal with the New Democratic Party.

He said that she telephoned Mr. Lewis to ask if he would talk to Mr. Layton about possible co-operation.

"She was actively soliciting his support to work out a kind of collaborative arrangement involving her party," Mr. Broadbent said.

He said that it was assumed that she was asking to develop a strategic relationship of "some kind" for the coming election.

Mr. Lewis, he said, told her politely that he didn't agree with her.

IMHO the Liberals are moving further and further out of mainstream politics. Dion may have been an underdog going for the Liberal Leadership, but he is making decisions that remind me of Stockwell Day.

The Liberals have taken all the heat off the Conservatives and put it in their backyard.

I await the damage control from the spin doctors over this doctored affair.

Dion and May have made a career limiting agreement.

[jdobbin]

The Liberals have taken all the heat off the Conservatives and put it in their backyard.

I await the damage control from the spin doctors over this doctored affair.

Dion and May have made a career limiting agreement.

May was on the attack today on CTV's Question Period saying that Layton won't talk to her at all and suggested it was because he was too busy cooperating with the Tories.

I'm starting to think that she may be right. I think Layton will not campaign against Harper but against Dion and May. They will hammer him if he continues to look like he is soft on the Tories.

My own take on Central Nova, I don't know that I would have made the deal on a general election. Even in a bye-election previous, the Liberals were not prepared to lose a valuable seat. Dion's decision was not overly painful for the Liberals to make for a seat they don't own. My take is that if May continues to hammer the NDP, it is worth it. If she wins Central Nova, even better.

[madmax]

May was on the attack today on CTV's Question Period saying that Layton won't talk to her at all and suggested it was because he was too busy cooperating with the Tories.

I'm starting to think that she may be right. I think Layton will not campaign against Harper but against Dion and May. They will hammer him if he continues to look like he is soft on the Tories.

I have a quote from Layton from April 13th, from the Brantford Expositor, courtesy of google.

Layton said he’d rather have action from the government than another election.

But, with Prime Minister Stephen Harper at the helm, he doesn’t hold out much hope of co-operative work being done.

“Stephen Harper is not a collaborator. He wants to govern as if he has a majority. He may want a majority but he hasn’t got it.”

Layton said Harper’s “schoolyard antics” of last summer have calmed but he still doesn’t meet with the NDP.

“At least, he doesn’t meet with me.”

Cooperation is a two way street. Clearly Harper isn't interested in collaborating with the NDP. Infact the NDP have been on their own, while the Liberals and the Bloc make deals with the CPC.

May is already trying to spin this by talking about the NDP in an attempt to deflect attention away from her decision.

Didn't take her long to spin this.

[Canuck E Stan]

Didn't take her long to spin this.

And why not, this is the group she wants to steal votes from.

[jdobbin]

Didn't take her long to spin this.

And why not, this is the group she wants to steal votes from.

I agree on that. It is the NDP who are the most upset by the Green deal or their existence as a party. If Dion has removed part of that threat from the Greens to himself, it may prove to be an effective strategy.

However, as I said, it isn't a strategy I would have taken. It comes with as many risks as it does rewards.

[Canadian Blue]

I noticed on babble.ca most people their don't like May much either. For some reason I think the Green Party will once again slip into oblivion once the election comes.

[madmax]

CB Said

I noticed on babble.ca most people their don't like May much either. For some reason I think the Green Party will once again slip into oblivion once the election comes

I haven't bothered with babble.ca . I just checked it out, and if this is the feeling of the "left" then May is in serious trouble.

[betsy]

And so the the little deal is becoming a big deal.The strategists are re-igniting the Liberal Family Feud.

I don't even know if Heard is an adviser to anyone in the party right now. Seems to me that he is just making mischief with rivals who have never met him.

But obviously, he is still considered as someone important within the Liberal Party. He's been described as a "senior strategist".

[August1991]

It is the NDP who are the most upset by the Green deal or their existence as a party. If Dion has removed part of that threat from the Greens to himself, it may prove to be an effective strategy.

However, as I said, it isn't a strategy I would have taken. It comes with as many risks as it does rewards.

There is no doubt that this will hurt the NDP. But I wouldn't go as far as saying that that is why Dion has done this. (I think that argument has been put forward by Coyne and/or Hebert.)

The NDP has been moribund for some time - witness the departure of Rae and its reasons, or the shift of Clinton and Blair elsewhere. The NDP for the most part remains mired in socialist theories circa 1970 although it has gotten a new lease on life by going social liberal (gay rights and all) and by going green. This has attracted younger voters.

The arrival of the Green Party, and now the possibility that the Liberals will go green, can only hurt the NDP. (The posters on the splintered left wing forums - rabble, enmasse, bread n' roses - are more vitriolic to May and the Greens than they are to Bush and Harper.)

But Dion's decision goes deeper than seeking the NDP vote. I think Paul Wells is closer to the truth when he notes that Dion really believes in environmental protection. Dion genuinely thinks that he's doing the best thing for the country.

Now, here's the kicker. I think many Canadians agree with Dion. Young people in school have been indictrinated with environmental religion. But as people get older, closer to retirement, as many boomers aqre now doing, they start to think about what they'll leave to the future and to their children and grandchildren. The quality of the environment is of concern to these people. Canadians are richert than they have ever been in their history and cleanliness is a superior good - as people get richer, they consume more cleanliness.

By stepping aside for May, Dion has sent out a very, very strong signal about his green credentials - and he's shown that he can make audaciously strategic moves too. The NDP is a side-benefit.

Harper knows all this and that's why he replaced Ambrose. Watch for Harper to go further green too, but he won't have credibility on the issue unless he plays it right.

This move by Dion will definitely help the Liberals.

[jdobbin]

But obviously, he is still considered as someone important within the Liberal Party. He's been described as a "senior strategist".

For who? By all accounts, it looks like he has gone back to the private sector.

[betsy]

Has anyone heard about a recent development regarding the Green party in Vancouver? Saturday's National Post has a story about Kevin Potvin, a Green candidate, who publishes a small paper there called The Republic of East Vancouver. In it he has related how elated he felt as 9/11 was occuring, and an urge to pump his fist in the air.

He also described the 2005 London subway bombings as not cowardly, despicable and unspeakable acts, but acts of war. He has also used his paper suggest the U.S. government had a hand in 9/11.

I would suggest that this will have negaitve impact on the Greens, and by extension, the Liberals for consorting with a party that has such whackos in it.

Perhaps that explains why Liberal senior strategist Ray Heard, in his letter to journalists, had said this of Dion:

"He refused to support extending the terrorism provisions Bob Rae said were needed to find the Air India terrorists. He is fudging the commitment to fight terrorists in Afghanistan his own government made."

Maybe Dion shares the views of this Kevin Potvin.

[betsy]

May was on the attack today on CTV's Question Period saying that Layton won't talk to her at all and suggested it was because he was too busy cooperating with the Tories.

Yes, I've seen that show. I wouldn't say she was "on the attack." It was Jane Taber who was on the offensive. And May was "on the defensive"....and had gone on "deflect-mode."

After May denied there was any backroom deals (explaining and making it all seem so innocent and cute how Dion called her up), Jane Taber pointedly told her about Broadbent's comment that she (May) was calling the NDP for weeks trying to "broker a deal." For a short while May was flustered and she said "I don't know why Layton wouldn't answer my call. He has time to talk to Harper but he never called me back." It was a tactic to deflect and make it seem like something was wrong that an Opposition leader should be talking with the Prime Minister. (Excuse me, but is Elizabeth May sitting as an MP in Parliament?)

Then Taber became specific and told her that Broadbent was saying May was trying to talk to Lewis.

Then Jane Taber promptly put her on the spot by asking, "are there any more deals between you and Dion?"

"Is he going tohelp you campaign?" And Taber wanted and pushed for a definite and clear answer.

[August1991]

But obviously, he is still considered as someone important within the Liberal Party. He's been described as a "senior strategist".

Betsy, you seem to get all your information from Mike Duffy - but I can't believe the Duffster would ever describe Ray Heard that way.

Ray Heard? Never heard of the guy.

Here's how the Toronto Star described him:

Ray Heard, former communications director to Liberal prime minister John Turner....

Liberal prime minister John Turner?

Move along, there's nothing to see here. Circulez!

[betsy]

But obviously, he is still considered as someone important within the Liberal Party. He's been described as a "senior strategist".

Betsy, you seem to get all your information from Mike Duffy - but I can't believe the Duffster would ever describe Ray Heard that way.

Ray Heard? Never heard of the guy.

Here's how the Toronto Star described him:

Ray Heard, former communications director to Liberal prime minister John Turner....

Liberal prime minister John Turner?

Move along, there's nothing to see here. Circulez!

No, I got the "senior strategist" description from the link that was given above about the Liberal Family Feud.

Duffy described him as the Comm. Dir. to Turner.

[gc1765]

It was a tactic to deflect and make it seem like something was wrong that an Opposition leader should be talking with the Prime Minister.

It's Ok for an opposition leader to talk with the prime minister, but it's not ok for a leader of a political party to talk with the leader of the opposition?

[betsy]

But obviously, he is still considered as someone important within the Liberal Party. He's been described as a "senior strategist".

For who? By all accounts, it looks like he has gone back to the private sector.

Well Duffy referred to him as a prominent Liberal supporter (along with his previous title)....and the journalist from the link above had referred to him as a "senior strategist". He may not be directly involved now...I dunno...but obviously he still has some clout or some importance to the party. Otherwise, why would Reid not put him properly in his place if he is a total "nobody" in the party? Why would Duffy bother mentioning his name....or an article written about him? Read the link about the Liberal Family Feud given by another poster.

[betsy]

It was a tactic to deflect and make it seem like something was wrong that an Opposition leader should be talking with the Prime Minister.

It's Ok for an opposition leader to talk with the prime minister, but it's not ok for a leader of a political party to talk with the leader of the opposition?

But is there something wrong or unusual about Layton talking to Harper?

May could just have chided Layton for not answering her call, as politeness would dictate.

BUT THERE IS NOTHING unusual about Layton or Harper talking with each other. So she was trying to make something out of nothing....as a way to deflect.

Some may take it that she is prematurely equating herself as an equal in stature as that of the official leaders of the Oppositions.....or even the Prime Minister. That's why I ask: is she even a sitting MP?

[gc1765]

But is there something wrong or unusual about Layton talking to Harper?

May could just have chided Layton for not answering her call, as politeness would dictate.

BUT THERE IS NOTHING unusual about Layton or Harper talking with each other. So she was trying to make something out of nothing....as a way to deflect.

Some may take it that she is prematurely equating herself as an equal in stature as that of the official leaders of the Oppositions.....or even the Prime Minister. That's why I ask: is she a sitting MP?

I agree there is nothing wrong with Layton talking with Harper.

...but then why is there something wrong with May talking with Dion?

[August1991]

Far be it from me to defend Stéphane Dion.

This is still the guy who opposed action on greenhouse gas emissions while in cabinet, did nothing about them while environment minister, and then thought naming his dog Kyoto would convince everyone how dedicated to reducing emissions he was.

Dion was also a guy who non-chalantly watched the 1980 referendum results in the DGQ in Paris, admitting to little interest in Quebec politics. (I think he had admiited to being sympathetic then to the PQ.)

In the late 1990s, Dion was primarily concerned about the unity file.

The truth is in the pudding, however. Fourteen years after Kyoto the Liberal Party has yet to produce any kind of plan or process for actually trying, or even honestly attempting to meet the objectives they commited us to.

Further preduction: In the next election, Dion will make a lot of mouth noises about reducing greenhouse gas emissions, but whatever plans or programs he announces will be vague uncosted.

Agreed. But Dion has put forward a serious proposal for caps and emissions trading.

Something else. Environmental policy goes beyond GHG emissions.

Too many here misunderstand the Greens. These people follow Ronald Reagan's adage: There's no telling how far someone can go if they don't object if someone else gets credit for their work. If it means the environment is protected, the Greens will agree. May herself was an important bureaucrat in Mulroney's environment ministry and she is partly responsible for the US-Canada agreement creating tradeable permits for SO2 emissions and effectively eliminating acid rain.

Why would Duffy bother mentioning his name....or an article written about him? Read the link about the Liberal Family Feud given by another poster.

Uh... that's a tough one. Lemme think.

Maybe because Duffy is a TV journalist and he likes dramatics? Whaddya think?

As to the term "Liberal Family Feud", that comes from that wonder of political analysis: Pierre Bourque.

----

The Liberals had their family feud between Martin and Chretien. This is no family feud.

[Michael Bluth]

Some may take it that she is prematurely equating herself as an equal in stature as that of the official leaders of the Oppositions.....or even the Prime Minister. That's why I ask: is she even a sitting MP?

I appreciated her taking Harper to task for not following "parliamentary tradition" and running a candidate against her in the London North Centre by-election.

I didn't realize that there was a tradition of clearing the decks so the leader of a party that has NEVER elected an MP in Canadian history could win a seat in parliament.

[betsy]

But is there something wrong or unusual about Layton talking to Harper?

May could just have chided Layton for not answering her call, as politeness would dictate.

BUT THERE IS NOTHING unusual about Layton or Harper talking with each other. So she was trying to make something out of nothing....as a way to deflect.

Some may take it that she is prematurely equating herself as an equal in stature as that of the official leaders of the Oppositions.....or even the Prime Minister. That's why I ask: is she a sitting MP?

I agree there is nothing wrong with Layton talking with Harper.

...but then why is there something wrong with May talking with Dion?

Who sez there is anything wrong with May talking with Dion? Or with Layton for that matter? Or with anyone she wishes to talk to?

[jdobbin]

Well Duffy referred to him as a prominent Liberal supporter (along with his previous title)....and the journalist from the link above had referred to him as a "senior strategist". He may not be directly involved now...I dunno...but obviously he still has some clout or some importance to the party. Otherwise, why would Reid not put him properly in his place if he is a total "nobody" in the party? Why would Duffy bother mentioning his name....or an article written about him? Read the link about the Liberal Family Feud given by another poster.

He might be a Liberal supporter but I don't see him listed as staff for the Liberal party nor does he seem to be working for anyone in the party. His present job indicated he was private sector. He was one of the Liberals who was purged (for lack of a better word) before Dion came to the fore.

[gc1765]

Who sez there is anything wrong with May talking with Dion? Or with Layton for that matter? Or with anyone she wishes to talk to?

I assumed this:

"After May denied there was any backroom deals (explaining and making it all seem so innocent and cute how Dion called her up)"

meant that you thought there was something wrong with May and Dion and their "backroom deal". If that wasn't your intention, I apologize. If it was your intention, perhaps you could clarify the difference between May & Dion talking vs. Layton & Harper talking.