Appeasment

[White Doors]

Because there is no alternative obviously.

You still failed to answer why you think the Middle East is pissed off at the United States, or the west. What do you think is the cause of this hostility?

Please don't answer with the "they hate freedom" answer. It won't cut it, and from what history has shown the west has been complacent is supporting regimes who were anti-democratic.

Because they want to return the caliphate.

The US is the biggest obstacle in achieving it.

Osama said it himself so don't take my word for it.

[Guthrie]

return the Caliphate???? hahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha

there is not a serious discussion anywhere but right wing nutcase blog sites, like freeper or that drudge guy

no, there is no Caliphate being sought and anyone who thinks there is got it from a 5 minute lesson in Shiism produced by the 700 Club

again, not sufficient for making it to Davey and Goliath

[DogOnPorch]

...use of chemical warfare...

Chemical warfare?? Ohhhhhhh....do you mean white phosphorus? Not a "chemical weapon"...neither is napalm. Nor does one's say-so make them chemical weapons. Mustard gas...VX nerve agent...Phosgene, etc...they're chemical weapons.

...used by every army on the planet. Napalm is simply gelled gasoline.

Much like getting shot with a normal copper jacket bullet (kills, too)...you wouldn't want to hold a "Willy-Pete" grenade as it goes off or be anywhere too close to where napalm is being used.

But...this is definately a use of chemical weapons.

Insurgents in Iraq are using new methods of attack four years after US forces invaded Iraq to oust the government of former president Saddam Hussein. Their latest weapon of choice is poisonous chlorine gas, which they use in bomb explosions to cause more casualties and spread panic, say specialists.

Just like 2nd Ypres....

the Muslims are pissed off because of the US policy of blind support for Israel

Not that much of a surprise. Israel was a close friend of America's during the Cold War. Most of the "Muslims" (countries in the area) were on "the other side" if you recall...maybe you don't. I would think that Israel has earned its privileges while perhaps the rest have some ways to go before they get their "blind support". My guess is...maybe not so much "

" and they'll be well on their way.

...torture, rape, pederasty and murder at Abu Ghraib et al...

I wonder what the other guys prisons looks like...or do they just behead/shoot all prisoners out-of-hand? Pederasty? That's a new one...lol. I wasn't aware American soldiers were taking small boys for sexual companionship. Any links for that one?

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Every attempt to make war easy and safe will result in humiliation and disaster.

---Union Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman

[Black Dog]

Because they want to return the caliphate.

The US is the biggest obstacle in achieving it.

Osama said it himself so don't take my word for it.

And if they do? SFW.

And what does that have to do with Iran?

If I didn't know better, I would think people are sweeping all the Muslims into the same category regardless of where they're from or what sect they belong to etc...

[Canadian Blue]

So to ensure the Cailiphate doesn't return we have to start bombing countries at will, and hope that the Caliphate doesn't return.

I'd think that the more we bomb, the more likely people will get pissed off.

[Guthrie]

...use of chemical warfare...

Chemical warfare?? Ohhhhhhh....do you mean white phosphorus? Not a "chemical weapon"...neither is napalm. Nor does one's say-so make them chemical weapons. ...

nor does one denial make them anything but chemical weapons, the excuses are getting just so very pathetic

[bush_cheney2004]

I'd think that the more we bomb, the more likely people will get pissed off.

Well...yeah....I'm sure Germany and Japan were very pissed off. That's the idea. Nixon pissed off North Vietnam too....Canada pissed off Serbia.....still waiting for their "revenge".

[Guthrie]

Nixon pissing off North Vietnam didn't do any good -- Nixon lost the Vietnam war in the end along with all his other losses

Germany and Japan were fighting a war.

Laughing at revenge is not a real smart posture --- even dust bunny spies should know that

[bush_cheney2004]

Nixon pissing off North Vietnam didn't do any good -- Nixon lost the Vietnam war in the end along with all his other losses

Germany and Japan were fighting a war.

Laughing at revenge is not a real smart posture --- even dust bunny spies should know that

The point is that Germany, Japan, Vietnam and Serbia are not launching suicide attacks on US or Canadian targets after bombing them.

The US is also fighting a war....it's what we do...win some...lose some.

Laughing at you is always smart!

[Canadian Blue]

Okay, so let's piss everbody off, which will do us alot of good with everyone else. I fail to see how North Vietnam was a case for intervention as it did absolutely nothing to help the cause of "freedom".

[Guthrie]

...

...

The US is also fighting a war....it's what we do...win some...lose some.

...

No, it isn't what we do.

[bush_cheney2004]

No, it isn't what we do.

You flunked History....too?

[bush_cheney2004]

Okay, so let's piss everbody off, which will do us alot of good with everyone else. I fail to see how North Vietnam was a case for intervention as it did absolutely nothing to help the cause of "freedom".

Vietnam made perfectly good sense in the context of Cold War proxy battles....Commonwealth member Australia sure thought so and with good reason. "Freedom" is a euphemism for doing whatever the hell we want to in the name of econcomic growth. Canada made a bundle during the Vietnam war!

If not Vietnam, then why Korea? Or Serbia? Or Rwanda? (oops...we did pass on that one).

[Guthrie]

not to waste too much time with you - but you might want to read some historical documents

http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/democrac/demo.htm

"We seek peace, knowing that peace is the climate of freedom." -Dwight D. Eisenhower

[bush_cheney2004]

not to waste too much time with you - but you might want to read some historical documents

http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/democrac/demo.htm

"We seek peace, knowing that peace is the climate of freedom." -Dwight D. Eisenhower

This is too easy.....game, set, and match: US military advisors poured into Vietnam under President Eisenhower.

Eisenhower's Letter of Support to Ngo Dinh Diem, October 23, 1954.

Dear Mr. President: I have been following with great interest the course of developments in Viet-Nam, particularly since the conclusion of the conference at Geneva. The implications of the agreement concerning Viet-Nam have caused grave concern regarding the future of a country temporarily divided by an artificial military grouping, weakened by a long and exhausting war and faced with enemies without and by their subversive collaborations within. Your recent requests for aid to assist in the formidable project of the movement of several hundred thousand loyal Vietnamese citizens away from areas which are passing under a de facto rule and political ideology which they abhor, are being fulfilled.

I am glad that the United States is able to assist in this humanitarian effort. We have been exploring ways and means to permit our aid to Viet-Nam to be more effective and to make a greater contribution to the welfare and stability of the government of Viet-Nam. I am, accordingly, instructing the American Ambassador to Viet-Nam to examine with you in your capacity as Chief of Government, how an intelligent program of American aid given directly to your government can serve to assist Viet-Nam in its present hour of trial, provided that your Government is prepared to give assurances as to the standards of performance it would be able to maintain in the event such aid were supplied.

The purpose of this offer is to assist the Government of Viet-Nam in developing and maintaining a strong, viable state, capable of resisting attempted subversion or aggression through military means. The Government of the United States expects that this aid will be met by performance on the part of the Government of Viet-Nam in undertaking needed reforms. It hopes that such aid, combined with your own continuing efforts, will contribute effectively toward an independent Viet-Nam endowed with a strong government. Such a government would, I hope, be so responsive to the nationalist aspirations of its people, so enlightened in purpose and effective in performance, that it will be respected both at home and abroad and discourage any who might wish to impose a foreign ideology on your free people.

Sincerely,

Dwight D. Eisenhower

SOURCE: Department of State Bulletin. November 15, 1954, pp.735-736.

[sharkman]

Who was it that said, walk softly and carry a big stick. As long as there are bullies in the world that want to take (by force) from the weak, there is a place for war.

[bush_cheney2004]

Who was it that said, walk softly and carry a big stick. As long as their are bullies in the world that want to take (by force) from the weak, there is a place for war.

That would be President Teddy Roosevelt.....and here is a photo to demonstrate your point:

http://navysite.de/cvn/cvn71.jpg

[Guthrie]

not to waste too much time with you - but you might want to read some historical documents

http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/democrac/demo.htm

"We seek peace, knowing that peace is the climate of freedom." -Dwight D. Eisenhower

This is too easy.....game, set, and match: US military advisors poured into Vietnam under President Eisenhower.

Eisenhower's Letter of Support to Ngo Dinh Diem, October 23, 1954.

Dear Mr. President: I have been following with great interest the course of developments in Viet-Nam, particularly since the conclusion of the conference at Geneva. The implications of the agreement concerning Viet-Nam have caused grave concern regarding the future of a country temporarily divided by an artificial military grouping, weakened by a long and exhausting war and faced with enemies without and by their subversive collaborations within. Your recent requests for aid to assist in the formidable project of the movement of several hundred thousand loyal Vietnamese citizens away from areas which are passing under a de facto rule and political ideology which they abhor, are being fulfilled.

I am glad that the United States is able to assist in this humanitarian effort. We have been exploring ways and means to permit our aid to Viet-Nam to be more effective and to make a greater contribution to the welfare and stability of the government of Viet-Nam. I am, accordingly, instructing the American Ambassador to Viet-Nam to examine with you in your capacity as Chief of Government, how an intelligent program of American aid given directly to your government can serve to assist Viet-Nam in its present hour of trial, provided that your Government is prepared to give assurances as to the standards of performance it would be able to maintain in the event such aid were supplied.

The purpose of this offer is to assist the Government of Viet-Nam in developing and maintaining a strong, viable state, capable of resisting attempted subversion or aggression through military means. The Government of the United States expects that this aid will be met by performance on the part of the Government of Viet-Nam in undertaking needed reforms. It hopes that such aid, combined with your own continuing efforts, will contribute effectively toward an independent Viet-Nam endowed with a strong government. Such a government would, I hope, be so responsive to the nationalist aspirations of its people, so enlightened in purpose and effective in performance, that it will be respected both at home and abroad and discourage any who might wish to impose a foreign ideology on your free people.

Sincerely,

Dwight D. Eisenhower

SOURCE: Department of State Bulletin. November 15, 1954, pp.735-736.

Yes, Ike let a lot of horriffic crap go on - he was a great manager as a general, as president he wimped out way too often.

At first, Kennedy let them get away with crap as well. After Bay of Pigs, which showed his courage as he stepped up and took the hit for the fiasco, he knew these clowns for what they were. When he was finally asassinated, he was planning to pull ALL Americans out of Viet Nam. Ike, I'd like to think, would heartily approve, once the truth of the matter was finally explained to him.

Yes, I agree that your history is correct. The question remains, so what? Ike was suckered. A lot of people have been suckered. Mostly by the same group. The same group that suckered us into Iraq.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes, I agree that your history is correct. The question remains, so what? Ike was suckered. A lot of people have been suckered. Mostly by the same group. The same group that suckered us into Iraq.

You "agree" that "my" history is correct? Sir, you were just handed your ass.

Ike also said that there were no overflights of the Soviet Union until Gary Powers showed up on Rusky TV.

[Guthrie]

Your logic is pathetic and tortured. I am sure, in the dim light of your mom's basement you think you hit a homerun. Unfortunately you bunted foul and were called out. Get over it.

maybe you need to read ALL of the history and stop going for your Rush Bimbaugh sound bites

bush_cheney2004, honestly, if you'd like to give up that joke you were making about a spy who used to engage in criminal acts somehow involved with submarines, I'll understand. You like to kid around and thought you could yank my chain a little.

It's ok, we can start over, maybe we'll be friends. I've done a variety of things in my life. How about you? I did start, as a kid, working in an opthalmic optic laboratory. I used to grind lenses and cetera.

I'm from the midwest, how about you?

[Guthrie]

Yes, I agree that your history is correct. The question remains, so what? Ike was suckered. A lot of people have been suckered. Mostly by the same group. The same group that suckered us into Iraq.

You "agree" that "my" history is correct? Sir, you were just handed your ass.

Ike also said that there were no overflights of the Soviet Union until Gary Powers showed up on Rusky TV.

Yes, as I noted, the morons pushed Ike around a lot, when he was president. It doesn't mean he considered himself a god of war. Quit kidding yourself. Your shallow view of the world needs work.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes, as I noted, the morons pushed Ike around a lot, when he was president. It doesn't mean he considered himself a god of war. Quit kidding yourself. Your shallow view of the world needs work.

And your Pollyanna view of the world needs a reality check. Eisenhower (West Point graduate) presided over a huge Cold War build-up despite smarmy speeches about the military industrial complex.

Eisenhower Doctrine = military force to counter communism.

Eisenhower VP = Richard Nixon

[Guthrie]

Yes, as I noted, the morons pushed Ike around a lot, when he was president. It doesn't mean he considered himself a god of war. Quit kidding yourself. Your shallow view of the world needs work.

And your Pollyanna view of the world needs a reality check. Eisenhower (West Point graduate) presided over a huge Cold War build-up despite smarmy speeches about the military industrial complex.

Eisenhower Doctrine = military force to counter communism.

Eisenhower VP = Richard Nixon

and still, that doesn't defend your claim, "'war,' that's what we do"

sorry, my view of the world comes from reality. You should check in some time. Don't let the light hurt your eyes.

[bush_cheney2004]

and still, that doesn't defend your claim, "'war,' that's what we do"

sorry, my view of the world comes from reality. You should check in some time. Don't let the light hurt your eyes.

Like I said...you flunked history:

1775-1890....40 major "Indian" wars

1775-1783....American Revolution English Colonists vs. Great Britain

1801-1815....Barbary Wars United States vs. Morocco, Algiers, Tunis, and Tripoli

1812-1815....War of 1812 United States vs. Great Britain

1836............War of Texas Independence Texas vs. Mexico

1846-1848....Mexican War United States vs. Mexico

1861-1865....Civil War Union vs. Confederacy

1898............Spanish-American War United States vs. Spain

1917-1918....World War I

1939-1945....World War II

1945-1989....Cold War

1950-1953....Korean War

1954-1975....Vietnam War United States and South Vietnam vs. North Vietnam

1961............Bay of Pigs Invasion United States vs. Cuba

1982-1983....Lebanon War

1983............Grenada United States Intervention

1989............US Invasion of Panama

1990-1991....Persian Gulf War

1995-1996....Intervention in Bosnia and Herzegovina

1998............Desert Fox - Bombing of Iraq

1999............NATO's Allied Force against Serbia

2001............Invasion of Afghanistan

2003............Invasion of Iraq

This list excludes the many military interventions in the Americas, China, even Russia!

[Guthrie]

I got 'A's in History. Your tortured logic has not improved. and have you even considered giving up that joke about you being a spook who engaged in criminal activities somehow involved with submarines? I mean ...