the american-nazi connection

[Jerry Galinda]

QUOTE

Most of the European countries were poor – especially from Eastern Europe. Poorer than Germany.

Only in Germany - Nazi party emerged as a powerful force on the political stage.

Why ?

Germans are very good community, nation – but when they start to march – it’s dangerous for …………..

Why only Germans ?

What are you talking about?

American's are very divided right now, they aren't marching side by side.

It is hard to express exactly what I want to say – (because of my language skills) - but the main problem – in this case - is to describe the roots of Nazism.

I don’t see any reasonable reasons causing such situation that any kind of Nazism emerged as a real force on the political stage in the America.

[kuzadd]

Ford and numerous other American corporations, continued there relationship with the Nazi gov. to the end.

Most notoriously IBM.

http://www.ichblog.eu/index.php?option=com...ctlink&id=55575

a little 9 minute documentary re: Bush family and the nazi's

"What a drama! Two of the most popular figures in 20th century America - Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh - pitted against a third - Franklin Delano Roosevelt - over what to do about Adolf Hitler. Max Wallace reminds us that the destiny of the republic hung in the balance in the Great Debate of 1940-41." -Arthur Schlesinger Jr., Pulitzer Prize-winning historian

[kuzadd]

additionaly:

Ford Motor Company (USA) owned from 55 to 90% of the shares of its subsidiary Ford Werke A.G. during 1933 to 1945. "Edsel Ford and Robert Sorenson, high-ranking officials of Ford Motor Company, served as directors of Ford Werke A.G. throughout the Nazi Third Reich." 4 The lawsuit alleges that the company made immense profits providing the German army with tracked vehicles and other trucks. This was because it worked at peak capacity for many years, and did not have to pay wages to many of its workers. Unlike most American facilities in Germany, Ford was not taken over by the German government during the war.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/fin_nazi.htm

[Jerry Galinda]

As you know - the biggest car factory in USRR was build by Ford (Gorki - GAZ) - it was in 1930 y.

It means that Ford was a communist ?

[DogOnPorch]

Ford and numerous other American corporations, continued there relationship with the Nazi gov. to the end.

By 1941 Ford of Germany had stopped manufacturing passenger vehicles and was devoting its entire production capacity to military trucks of German design. So the machines in the factory did have FoMoCo stamped on them...but were churning out Opel Blitz trucks under license. The Ford company in Germany was not nationalised for a reason you might not initially guess without good knowledge of the inner workings of the 3rd Reich.

In May of 1942, the Superior Court of Cologne finally put Ford Werke in "trusteeship," ruling that it was "under authoritative enemy influence." However, the Nazis never nationalized Ford. German property-plant managers feared it would be turned over to Mercedes or the Hermann Goering Werke, a huge industrial network composed of properties seized by the Reich.

Nazis ran things like private empires. Nobody in the Nazi gang wanted to see Goering any stronger than he already was. He was already #2 behind Hitler (Bormann and Himmler close behind)...head of the Lufwaffe...and building his own private Airborne/Panzer division. Himmler (SS), Bormann (Parteikanzlei) and Goering would have killed each other if left alone in the same room they hated each other so much by 1941.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsourc...caust/ford.html

The IBM thing is harder to prove and the latest group to try (Roma) had their case dismissed from a Swiss court. However, IBM-Germany (or Deutsche Hollerith Maschinen Gesellschaft) did provide the equipment for Germany's 1939 census.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsourc...ocaust/IBM.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Hollerith

Certainly, the dynamics and context of IBM's alliance with Nazi Germany changed throughout the twelve-year Reich....Make no mistake. The Holocaust would still have occurred without IBM. To think otherwise is more than wrong. The Holocaust would have proceeded — and often did proceed — with simple bullets, death marches, and massacres based on pen and paper persecution. But there is reason to examine the fantastical numbers Hitler achieved in murdering so many millions so swiftly, and identify the crucial role of automation and technology. Accountability is needed.

---Edwin Black

Either way...IBM had nothing to do with the invention of the punch card...which is part of the technology claimed to cause all this fuss. That's an 18th century invention used in the textile industry to run looms. It was then adapted to manage the 1890 census in the US. Never watched 'Connections' when younger, I gather.

However, I will agree that some Americans were keen on making money off the Nazis pre Dec 1941...but, if you asked IBM and others if the intent behind their sales to Germany was to create a death toll of over 6 million Jews and an equal number of Russian POWs...Roma...mentally ill...et al. I think you already know that answer...

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The key to why things change is the key to everything.

---James Burke

[kuzadd]

Ford Motor Company (USA) owned from 55 to 90% of the shares of its subsidiary Ford Werke A.G. during 1933 to 1945. "Edsel Ford and Robert Sorenson, high-ranking officials of Ford Motor Company, served as directors of Ford Werke A.G. throughout the Nazi Third Reich." 4 The lawsuit alleges that the company made immense profits providing the German army with tracked vehicles and other trucks. This was because it worked at peak capacity for many years, and did not have to pay wages to many of its workers. Unlike most American facilities in Germany, Ford was not taken over by the German government during the war.

whatever the reason , Ford was not taken over and proffited handsomely throughout ww2.

the Ford motor company also profited from the use of slave labour.

Additionaly Ford motor co. was sued by prisoners after the war.

[kuzadd]

another article wrt Ford and it's profiteering under nazi germany, and slave labour

http://www.newsfeeds.com/archive/soc-genea...c/msg00147.html

Ford Motor Co. charged in Nazi secret profits on slave labor

1998-Daily Republican

WASHINGTON DESK - A Belgium woman, forced to work as a slave laborer at a manufacturing plant in Cologne, Germany during World War II, sued the Ford Motor Company and its German affiliate. The suit, filed as a class action, seeks reasonable payment for the work performed and the disgorgement of unfair profits.

Ford Motor Company (USA) was the owner of a substantial majority of the shares of Ford Werke A.G. during the period of time in which Hitler's Third Reich was in power in Germany 1933-1945.

Historical records show that, unlike most American-owned property in Nazi Germany, the Ford Werke A.G. plant was never confiscated by the German government. It continued to be owned by Ford Motor Company throughout the war. Edsel Ford and Robert Sorenson, high-ranking officials of Ford Motor Company, served as directors of Ford Werke A.G. throughout the Nazi Third Reich.

"Apparently, the use of unpaid, forced laborers by Ford Werke A.G. was immensely profitable. Relieved of the necessity of paying wages, and operating at peak capacity to meet the inexhaustible need of the German army for tracked vehicles and other trucks, Ford Werke A.G. realized enormous wartime profits."

goody for Ford, I mean having found themselves relieved of the burden of paying wages, sigh.

"Throughout the war years, Edsel Ford and Robert Sorenson, high-ranking officials of Ford Motor Company, continued to serve as directors of Ford Werke A.G.

The favorable treatment accorded by Nazi Germany to Ford Motor Company as the American owners of Ford Werke A.G. was attributable to a personal friendship between Henry Ford and Adolph Hitler. Henry Ford made annual birthday gifts of 50,000 deutsch marks to Adolph Hitler. "

nice gifts. between friends I guess?

ok, so let's just say Ford profitted handsomely, like a straight up war time profiteer, much like Haliburton today, and cut the crap.

Germany never confiscated Fords German plants and they provided autos right through the war for whomever needed them, and made much dollars, as stated like a good ol' war profiteer, like Haliburton, profiting off of the misery of others!!!

[DogOnPorch]

Yup...all that is explained in the Jewish Virtual Library link. But to understand the full picture, kuzadd, you'll need to dive into the inner workngs of the 3rd Reich as mentioned.

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My wife has a slight impediment in her speech. Every now and then she stops to breathe.

---Jimmy Durante

[kuzadd]

Yup...all that is explained in the Jewish Virtual Library link. But to understand the full picture, kuzadd, you'll need to dive into the inner workngs of the 3rd Reich as mentioned.

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My wife has a slight impediment in her speech. Every now and then she stops to breathe.

---Jimmy Durante

The ties between the nazi's and American business were even worse then ford and ibm, the banks also, ran all sorts of schemes, to supply money to the 3rd reich.

I've read one book, it sits on my shelf called:

America and the Nazi's

very interesting.

America and it's business and religious institutions were part and parcel of the "business friendly" nazi;s and war profiteering was rampant as it is today.

Then afterwards it got even better for America.

The Bush family repartee, with the Nazi regime, was likely no different then anything else that was going on at that time, between American business's and the Nazi's, cause when there is misery to make a profit from it seems American business and companies are always there despite their governments rhetoric!

[DogOnPorch]

You make far too much of it. It wasn't like FoMoCo or IBM enabled the Nazis 100%...they (the Nazis) just used them like everything else in Germany. Naziism was a fact with or without American capitalists' help. But again...you must understand people like Goering, Bormann, and such before you can even talk about Hitler with any certainty. I suggest 'The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich' for a good overview rather than some PolyNewbie-ish publication.

Also...as mentioned in a post you probably didn't read, the political environment in the USA was very much 'Europe's problems are for Europeans to solve' pre-1941. After that...different climate altogether. But I know you wish to put America in a bad light regardless of the situation...so go ahead...make my day...lol. Ever been to the US? Friends down their etc? Sounds like you should visit and see the Great Satan for yourself.

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Coming together is a beginning; keeping together is progress; working together is success.

---Henry Ford

[bush_cheney2004]

....America and it's business and religious institutions were part and parcel of the "business friendly" nazi;s and war profiteering was rampant as it is today.

Then afterwards it got even better for America.

The Bush family repartee, with the Nazi regime, was likely no different then anything else that was going on at that time, between American business's and the Nazi's, cause when there is misery to make a profit from it seems American business and companies are always there despite their governments rhetoric!

This was true for Canada, Switzerland, Brazil, Italy, etc.

If such a connection is abhorrent, what of the CanAm connection today in wars under the Bush "regime". Are you prepared to level the exact same criticism against Canadian business interests complicit in the USA's very "despicable" wars?

[kuzadd]

....America and it's business and religious institutions were part and parcel of the "business friendly" nazi;s and war profiteering was rampant as it is today.

Then afterwards it got even better for America.

The Bush family repartee, with the Nazi regime, was likely no different then anything else that was going on at that time, between American business's and the Nazi's, cause when there is misery to make a profit from it seems American business and companies are always there despite their governments rhetoric!

This was true for Canada, Switzerland, Brazil, Italy, etc.

If such a connection is abhorrent, what of the CanAm connection today in wars under the Bush "regime". Are you prepared to level the exact same criticism against Canadian business interests complicit in the USA's very "despicable" wars?

anyday BC, anyday!

[kuzadd]

BTW: obsidian, don't know if this was covered, but, you can watch this interesting documentary on-line.

I am actually listening right, now, as I work.

Banking with Hitler

Timewatch for BBC - Banking with Hitler

The US Secretary of the Treasury, Henry Morgenthau, began investigating Nazi finances 60 years ago and found Allied banks, including many British and American high street names, who continued to do business with Hitler's Germany throughout the war

http://www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk/video_drugsmoney.htm

scroll down and watch on realplayer.

[kuzadd]

You make far too much of it. It wasn't like FoMoCo or IBM enabled the Nazis 100%...they (the Nazis) just used them like everything else in Germany. Naziism was a fact with or without American capitalists' help. But again...you must understand people like Goering, Bormann, and such before you can even talk about Hitler with any certainty. I suggest 'The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich' for a good overview rather than some PolyNewbie-ish publication.

Also...as mentioned in a post you probably didn't read, the political environment in the USA was very much 'Europe's problems are for Europeans to solve' pre-1941. After that...different climate altogether. But I know you wish to put America in a bad light regardless of the situation...so go ahead...make my day...lol. Ever been to the US? Friends down their etc? Sounds like you should visit and see the Great Satan for yourself.

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Coming together is a beginning; keeping together is progress; working together is success.

---Henry Ford

what you suggest???

rather then some 'polynewbish type publication', in reference to the book, I mentioned , America and the Nazi's LOL!

dop: this is where you discredit yourself in an attempt to, elevate yourself.

I implore you to check out the book I am referencing

http://www.amazon.com/U-S-Intelligence-Naz...n/dp/0521617944

U.S. Intelligence and the Nazis( i should have put the title in correctly) but, you should not assume.

Book Description

At a time when intelligence successes and failures are at the center of public discussion, this book provides an unprecedented inside look at how intelligence agencies function during war and peacetime. As the direct result of the 1998 Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act, the volume draws upon many documents declassified under this law to reveal what U.S. intelligence agencies learned about Nazi crimes during World War II and about the nature of Nazi intelligence agencies' role in the Holocaust. It examines how some U.S. corporations found ways to profit from Nazi Germany's expropriation of the property of German Jews. The work also reveals startling new details on the Cold War connections between the U.S. government and Hitler's former officers.

About the Author

Richard Breitman, professor of history at American University, is the author or co-author of seven books and more than forty articles.

nice try at discreditting, still up to tricks eh? ;-)

[DogOnPorch]

William L. Shirer-

...was an American journalist and historian. He became known for his broadcasts on CBS from the German capital of Berlin during the Third Reich through the first year of World War II.

Shirer first became famous through his account of those years in his Berlin Diary (published in 1941), but his greatest achievement was his 1960 book, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. This book of well over 1000 pages is still in print, and is a detailed examination of the Third Reich filled with historical information from German archives captured at the end of the war, along with impressions Shirer gained during his days as a correspondent in Berlin. Later in 1969, his work The Collapse of the Third Republic drew on his experience spent living and working in France from 1925 to 1933. This work is filled with historical information about the Battle of France from the secret orders and reports of the French High Command and of the commanding generals of the field. Shirer also used the memoirs, journals, and diaries of the prominent British, French, Italian, Spanish, and French figures in government, Parliament, the Army, and diplomacy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_L._Shirer

...this is where you discredit yourself in an attempt to, elevate yourself.

Let's see what the internet has on your guy...

http://academic2.american.edu/~rbreit/biog.html

...now he might be a good historian...or not. Don't know until I read his stuff. But, if you haven't read Shirer's work, "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich", you're simply missing out on one of the great eye-witness accounts of our time.

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I don't understand what there is in the American character...that almost automatically, even when we have a liberal President, we support fascist dictatorships or are tolerant towards them.

---William L Shirer

[Guthrie]

War seizures controversy

Harriman Bank was the main Wall Street connection for German companies and the varied U.S. financial interests of Fritz Thyssen, who had been an early financial backer of the Nazi party until 1938, but who by 1939 had fled Germany and was bitterly denouncing Hitler. Business transactions for profit with Nazi Germany were not illegal when Hitler declared war on the US, but, six days after the attack on Pearl Harbor, President Roosevelt signed the Trading With the Enemy Act after it had been made public that U.S. companies were doing business with the declared enemy of the United States. On October 20, 1942, the U.S. government ordered the seizure of Nazi German banking operations in New York City. President Franklin Roosevelt's Alien Property Custodian, Leo T. Crowley, signed Vesting Order Number 248 seizing the property of Prescott Bush under the Trading with the Enemy Act. The order, published in obscure government record books and kept out of the news, cited only the UBC connections with Von Thyssen. Fox News has reported that recently declassified material "The 4,000 Union Banking shares owned by the Dutch bank were registered in the names of the seven U.S. directors, according a document signed by Homer Jones, chief of the division of investigation and research of the Office of Alien Property Custodian, a World War II-era agency that no longer exists"[2].

* E. Roland Harriman--3991 shares (managed and under voting control of Prescott Bush)

* Cornelis Lievense--4 shares (He was the New York banker of the German Nazi Party)

* Harold D. Pennington--1 share (Employed by Prescott Bush at Brown Brothers Harriman)

* Ray Morris--1 share (a business partner of the Bush and Harriman families)

* H.J. Kouwenhoven--1 share (organised UBC for Von Thyssen, managed UBC in Nazi occupied Netherlands)

* Johann G. Groeninger--1 share (German Industrial Executive, a not unimportant member of the Nazi party)

The Harriman business interests seized under the act in October and November 1942 included:

* Union Banking Corporation (UBC) (for Thyssen and Brown Brothers Harriman). The President of UBC at that time was George Herbert Walker, Prescott Bush's father-in-law. He is the grandfather and great-grandfather of the former and current Presidents Bush.

* Holland-American Trading Corporation (with Harriman)

* the Seamless Steel Equipment Corporation (with Harriman)

* Silesian-American Corporation (this company was partially owned by German entity; during the war the Germans tried to take the full control of Silesian-American. In response to that, American government seized German owned minority shares in the company, leaving the U.S. partners to carry on the business.)

The assets were held by the government for the duration of the war, then returned afterward. UBC was dissolved in 1951. Prescott Bush was on the board of directors of UBC and held one share in the company. For it, he was reimbursed $1,500,000. These assets were later used to launch Bush family investments in the Texas energy industry.

Link

[M.Dancer]

From the same site as Woody's last post

There are unsubstantiated rumors concerning Prescott Bush's associations with the Nazi party. The Anti-Defamation League has stated, "Rumors about the alleged Nazi 'ties' of the late Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush, have circulated widely through the Internet in recent years. These charges are untenable and politically motivated." [3] The rumors began with extreme right-wing attacks on George H.W. Bush during his 1980 presidential run and were renewed during his 1988 run.

[ScottSA]

Even if every single rumour WERE true, it makes no difference whatsoever. This kind of ad hominem is what conspiracy theorists and political assasins thrive on...one might as profitably argue that transatlantic flights are racist because Charles Lindburgh was a Nazi symp.

[PolyNewbie]

rather then some 'polynewbish type publication', in reference to the book, I mentioned , America and the Nazi's LOL!

I guess the New York Times is one of those.

[Guthrie]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100474,00.html

[ScottSA]

E. Roland Harriman, the bank chairman and brother of former New York Gov. W. Averell Harriman (search), held 3,991 shares. Bush had one share.

Hey woody, guess who Harriman was? This is another Woody "oops" moment, brought to you by Morons Against Bush...

[stignasty]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100474,00.html

Prescott Bush (search) was one of seven directors of Union Banking Corp. (search), a New York investment bank owned by a bank controlled by the Thyssen family, according to recently declassified National Archives documents reviewed by The Associated Press.

Fritz Thyssen (search) was an early financial supporter of Hitler, whose Nazi party Thyssen believed was preferable to communism. The documents do not show any evidence Bush directly aided that effort.

<snip>

Fritz Thyssen broke with the Nazis in 1938 over their persecution of Catholics and Jews, and fled to Switzerland. He later was arrested and spent 1941 to 1945 in a Nazi prison.

[M.Dancer]

E. Roland Harriman, the bank chairman and brother of former New York Gov. W. Averell Harriman (search), held 3,991 shares. Bush had one share.

Hey woody, guess who Harriman was? This is another Woody "oops" moment, brought to you by Morons Against Bush...

I know I know.......he was a War Monger, a mason, an illuminati and a stamp collector

[Guthrie]

...

Both Harrimans and Bush were partners in the New York investment firm of Brown Brothers, Harriman and Co., which handled the financial transactions of the bank as well as other financial dealings with several other companies linked to Bank voor Handel that were confiscated by the U.S. government during World War II.

Union Banking was seized by the government in October 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act (search).

No charges were brought against Union Banking's American directors. The federal government was too busy trying to fight the war, said Donald Goldstein, a professor of public and international affairs at the University of Pittsburgh.

"We did not have the resources to do these things," Goldstein said.

...

[ScottSA]

...

Both Harrimans and Bush were partners in the New York investment firm of Brown Brothers, Harriman and Co., which handled the financial transactions of the bank as well as other financial dealings with several other companies linked to Bank voor Handel that were confiscated by the U.S. government during World War II.

Union Banking was seized by the government in October 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act (search).

No charges were brought against Union Banking's American directors. The federal government was too busy trying to fight the war, said Donald Goldstein, a professor of public and international affairs at the University of Pittsburgh.

"We did not have the resources to do these things," Goldstein said.

...

So, was Bush one of the myraid "Nazis" who were in Britain and the US?