Should Canada Join the North American Union in 2010

[obsidian]

Im sure many of you are thinking "what the hell is this guy talking about?". Unfortunately im not just blowing smoke up your ass, all 3 countries have signed onto this proposal. Feel free to read up on it by searching the web for "Building a North American Community". This is proposed for 2010 people, i don't know too many people who would like to join the united states, and i know even less people who have even heard about this.

[Borg]

So we become "Norte" America and start spending "Amero's" instead of the looney?

Borg

[geoffrey]

Why not?

[Charles Anthony]

I will tell you Why not: small government is bad and big government is badder.

I will believe that the Twin Towers will levitate back down from Mars and settle back in Manhattan before I believe this secret North American Union conspiracy.

[PolyNewbie]

Its funny that people can be in favour of something that they know absolutely nothing about. I think this is where the word "idiot" comes into play.

If it was any good for the people they would be bragging about it and using it to fish for votes. Its a corporate takeover, not a joining of the countries. Thats why the controlled media will not mention it.

[PolyNewbie]

Charles Anthony: I will believe that the Twin Towers will levitate back down from Mars and settle back in Manhattan before I believe this secret North American Union conspiracy.

Its called the "security & prosperity patnership" and its not a secret. go to www.spp.gov. Its been on CNN. Both Loud Dobbs & Keith Oberman (MSNBC) have talked about this. Oberman has even mentioned the detention centers that I keep talking about.

[scribblet]

Why not?

If there is such a thing I'm wondering why not. Wouldn't it be something like the European Common Market?

[Leafless]

Why not?

If there is such a thing I'm wondering why not. Wouldn't it be something like the European Common Market?

Lets wait until the 'holes' start developing in the European Union and watch as Europe possibly falls apart.

I don't think Americans or Canadians want porous borders or a loss of sovereignty outside of the super elite.

http://www.newswithviews.com/DeWeese/tom63.htm

[GostHacked]

There is a thread in CAN/SUS relations on this that I started.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=6091

And another was made by US Citizen

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=6728

I will believe that the Twin Towers will levitate back down from Mars and settle back in Manhattan before I believe this secret North American Union conspiracy..

This is definately not a conspiracy. Or do you thing the European Union is a conspiracy?

So if you have been awake at all and looking at these boards in the last few months, you would have heard about it.

From what i know about the NAU, is that government will become centralized for the area. All decisions made by a group of poeple for the rest of us. England does not have control over much anymore, alot of what is done now is handles by Brussels. The same with all other countries there.

We can see the same happen here. The bigger government gets, the more the command man looses out.

Big busienss started it, and since big business controls much of the government, well you can see how this will turn out unless we the people do something about this.

Charles Anthony, if you were not so complacent in your life, you would have heard of it.

[Charles Anthony]

I have heard of it.

I do not believe it will happen.

[g_bambino]

If there is such a thing I'm wondering why not. Wouldn't it be something like the European Common Market?

Lets wait until the 'holes' start developing in the European Union and watch as Europe possibly falls apart.

I don't think Americans or Canadians want porous borders or a loss of sovereignty outside of the super elite.

The loss of sovereignty is the key issue. The EU began as simply an economic common market back in the 1950s; however, it's now growing more and more into a super-state that can swallow up once-sovereign countries. The UK, for example, though still technically independent, is adopting more and more EU law, composed in Brussels; meaning they must increasingly conform to what the European capital says, which is, by extension, a loss of sovereignty. If they signed onto an EU constitution (which has already been put forward), well... that's it for calling the Queen of the UK a sovereign.

Imagine if such a process were to begin on this continent. Will any country besides the United States have power to direct policy? I highly doubt it. And so, if we do this we will parallel Europe in every way; the North American presidents will become governors, and the sovereign will become a prince or princess, and all subordinate to the United States. It’s a hideous plan.

[GostHacked]

I have heard of it.

I do not believe it will happen.

It's already started. It has been going on for years, possibly decades. But not in a way you would have noticed off the top. Dig some. Questions stuff.

Soon, you will no longer be a soveriegn citizen of Canada. It will be called something else.

Canada, United States and Mexico will no longer be countries, but provices/states in a new regionalized government.

[August1991]

Myth: The SPP is a movement to merge the United States, Mexico, and Canada into a North American Union and establish a common currency.

Fact: The cooperative efforts under the SPP, which can be found in detail at www.spp.gov, seek to make the United States, Canada and Mexico open to legitimate trade and closed to terrorism and crime. It does not change our courts or legislative processes and respects the sovereignty of the United States, Mexico, and Canada. The SPP in no way, shape or form considers the creation of a European Union-like structure or a common currency. The SPP does not attempt to modify our sovereignty or currency or change the American system of government designed by our Founding Fathers.

Link

I'm in favour of anything that tends to reduce arbitrary borders or barriers. So, I'm in favour of this initiative although I don't think anything so bureaucratic will achieve much.

The loss of sovereignty is the key issue.

And whose sovereignty would that be? The people's, or the powers of the federal government?

----

I don't want to go science fiction but we are quickly approaching a world of undefined sovereignty. Even now, individuals are deemed "Canadian resident" according to different criteria for determining taxes, citizenship, voting and security. We have dual citizenship and dual residency.

To a degree, people can choose the government of allegiance and pay taxes accordingly. In short, people can choose to fly a flag of convenience or adopt a passport of convenience.

This will only increase in the future and our idea of "sovereignty" and "government" will change with it. Welcome to the future.

[sally]

Its funny that people can be in favour of something that they know absolutely nothing about. I think this is where the word "idiot" comes into play.

Haha.So funny but yet so true

[obsidian]

even though its mainly a bussiness venture its scary to think that corporations and big bussiness can virtually rewrite borders, and history. eh not to scary, cant think of a time civilization hasn't been doing this...

[geoffrey]

even though its mainly a bussiness venture its scary to think that corporations and big bussiness can virtually rewrite borders, and history. eh not to scary, cant think of a time civilization hasn't been doing this...

May I inquire to who is rewritting history?

[Catchme]

Watch CNN's Lou Dobbs and his CNN colleagues provide a historical and general overview of the fascist North American Union agenda to destroy Canada, the U.S., and Mexico in favour of governance by military and Big Business elites.

http://www.stopspp.com/stopspp/media/spp-v...NN-NAUCorsi.wmv

CNN's Lou Dobbs reports that newspapers and other media in Canada are referring to, as innocent on-going consultations to combat "terrorism" and promote "co-operation" among U.S., Canadian, and Mexican political elites, are actually not so innocent. Talks that are being officially labelled as "Security and Prosperity Partnership" (SPP), are really aimed at destroying the independent sovereignty of the U.S., Canada, and Mexico, under the cover provided by the "War on Terror".

Elites who are linked to a industrial-military complex, are seeking to further consolidate a "North American Union" that is to be run by them. The apparent clandestine nature of these "negotiations" in itself, CNN's Lou Dobbs further reports, reveals that their sought "North American Union" (NAU) will not be in the quality-of-living related interests of Canadians, Americans, or Mexicans. The NAU is a fascistic attempt to replace the democratic foundation of constitutions in Canada and the U.S., with what Mr. Dobbs reports as a "shadow government" of elites.

The SPP was not spawned with public involvement, but by the institutional convergence of Big Business-oriented economic policies associated with North American Free Trade (NAFTA), continentalist military elite interests associated with the U.S. headquarters based North American Aerospace Defence Command (NORAD), and the political cover of initiated "War on Terrorism" legislation.

http://www.bcpolitics.ca/left_spp.htm

[Catchme]

More on the NAU and the illegal attempt by the Bush and harper governments to create a North American Union.

As far as these elites are concerned, "thankfully", the "War on Terrorism" has provided a "great opportunity" in which the diverse public in Canada, the United States, and Mexico, will, on seeing "acts of terrorism" will be "forced" into the NAU to "vanquish the terrorist enemy".

In Canada, the handful of elites who have succeeded in acquiring ownership to Canada's mass-media, and who are linked to the Stephen Harper government, and political elites from other political parties, have seen fit to put a "media block-out". An elite clique has placed an apparent "media block-out" on raising public awareness in Canada, on the "North American Union" (NAU) agenda. The Lou Dobbs presentation has provided the kind of critical exposure of the NAU, which has so far been sabotaged by mass-media elites in Canada, that are linked to NAU advocates in Canada. Silence on the NAU agenda in Canada, stands out as nothing short of the greatest political scandal and conspiracy in Canadian history, and is tantamount to high treason, as defined by Canadian constitutional law.

But in the U.S., where there are been some coverage by diverse media organization; some efforts are in play to fight the NAU. Jerome Corsi of the newly formed Coalition to Block North American Union said: “There’s hardly a major area of public policy where the Bush administration has not, through the SPP working groups, rewritten our administrative law and regulations from being U.S. in nature to being North American in nature.” The coalition to block the North American Union wants to defeat a proposed NAFTA superhighway that would stretch from Texas all the way to Canada.

Even the Republicans are against it.

Parliament in Canada, and Congress in the U.S., have been left largely out of the loop. Lawmakers in the U.S. who have heard, like Rep. Virgil Goode (R-VA), are "hell bent" on keeping a North American Union from happening, “The interests of hard-working businesses in this country, hard-working workers in this country, and the average citizen in the United States should be placed ahead, in my opinion, of some international global theory that I think would harm the United States and most of its citizenry.”

http://www.bcpolitics.ca/left_spp.htm

[Catchme]

Here is a link to a shortened Lou Dobb's CNN commentary on youtube about the Bush Harper et al plot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyUkwW7z7Lc...related&search=

[geoffrey]

Lou Dobbs is as head in the ass as you can get in an American.

How he talks of us as second rate people on par with Mexicans in terms of a threat... god forbid a non-American gets a job.

Anyways, you can hardly look at Harper for this one, even Dobbs realised it was the Liberals under Martin that got the ball rolling.

And for that, I thank Martin for working to bring the North American economy into a more competitive state.

Isolationists are a dying breed and thankfully so. Dobbs hasn't left the 1930's in attitude. Splendid isolationism is not an option.

[Catchme]

Lou Dobbs is as head in the ass as you can get in an American.

How he talks of us as second rate people on par with Mexicans in terms of a threat... god forbid a non-American gets a job.

Anyways, you can hardly look at Harper for this one, even Dobbs realised it was the Liberals under Martin that got the ball rolling.

And for that, I thank Martin for working to bring the North American economy into a more competitive state.

Isolationists are a dying breed and thankfully so. Dobbs hasn't left the 1930's in attitude. Splendid isolationism is not an option.

No sorry, it does not work to try and trash the messenger. There were plenty of US politicians in that link, Republican ones even, who rightly point out that it is treasonous, both there and here in Canada, to being doing this outside of government bounds, to try and say it is Lou Dobbs is disengenuous.

Harper can be blamed, as there has been more intensified meetings since he took office the last being last Friday. He is rushing it forward even without public consultation. It seems he is in league with the Martin New World Order crowd heh?

There will not be more competitiveness. It will take away our sovereignty and give it to Global corporate elites.

It is ultimate isolationist behaviour, fire wall North America.

[geoffrey]

It is ultimate isolationist behaviour, fire wall North America.

And instead we should firewall Canada. Come on now, rationality.

Your also ignoring the pressure that the 500mil or so EU is putting on us to conglomerate in order to retain competitiveness. If we can't trade between the US, Canada and Mexico as free as the Euros can, we are in serious trouble.

[Catchme]

The EU is working and some countries are not liking what is happening at all. Especially Britian.

We are not fire walling Canada by staying out of a NA Union, we are not fire walled now, why would be then, that is absolutely an absurb statement.

And we can freely trade all we want, we are doing it right now.

Geoffery, if it was all good, why are they doing it in secret, eh? Says much about the lies of how good it is supposed to be for us, if so they could sell it to us on that premise, they can't.

Here is another good link for people to watch to see how bad it is for us.

[geoffrey]

Nothing worse than old paleo-Conservative's talking about books. I personally have a dislike for most American conservative views, especially these two. I've never heard such irrationality since Jack Layton's last speech.

Isolationism isn't anything new in leftist Canadian thought, or US populist conservative thought. But it's impractical. We are stronger by making our borders more open to trade and worker immigration. If we could form a free-trade union with the entire world, it'd be great, the US and Mexico seem to be the only ones really interesting in making a deal with us right now.

National sovereignty is a silly concept, protecting it at all costs is worse. Hell, I'd become American in a heart beat if it was in my personal advantage. Why not? People in general need to start addressing this, would you be willing to give up Canada as a nation if your standard of living would increase?

Or rather, how much are you willing to give up before we realise that more open integration with the rest of the world is needed?

Isolationism and nationalism are ugly concepts and people that think along those lines (like those conservatives on that round table, like Lou Dobbs and like the Canadian left). It's weird how parties like the NDP and the far-left Liberals (in opposition to the centrist realists like Martin) are so out of step with their left friends elsewhere in the world. People are looking to end nationalism, bring people together internationally.

People taking your viewpoint, Ms. Catchme, are 80 years past your time in history, and ignore the complexities of the international situation today.

These two conservatives do argue like you do Catchme, using a piece of paper (constitution) to justify their position. When you argue their position from a pros/cons realistic perspective, you find that it's highly beneficial for Canada to better integrate with Mexico and the United States.

We share resources through oil, Alberta ships to the midwest, the Gulf States ship to Eastern Canada. Or through electricity from Quebec to the North East. The examples are endless. Why not work together on these common issues??

The Amero (North American) dollar won't happen in the near future, it's not to our benefit right now. But eventually, an international common currency may have some validity... I do have some concerns with it though.

The fear of this Super NAFTA highway (oh my goodness!) is invalid. Having a trade route from Canada to Mexico through major trade centres is common sense, not some subversive agenda.

Made-in-the-USA labels? I thought I heard the end of buying nationally years ago. Someone that advocates a domestic only economy is really a relic of the past.

These guys are fear-mongering idiots is what I've figured out by about minute 15. This mysterious company from Spain, owned by the King of Spain (bastards and their royalty) is going to run a secret highway.

Well, in reality, the company is 62% owned by Ferrovial, a privately held Spanish company that actually runs many roads around the world. But reality isn't something people like this frolick in.

Ahhh.

EDIT: PS... these guys even used Jimmy Hoffa as a source. What a laugh!

[Catchme]

We are already working on those things geoffery, we do not need a North American Union that only benefits global corporations.

And national sovereignty is not a silly concept, and no I would not give up Canada so my standard of living would increase, and sure as heck won't with a North American Union. In fact it would decrease, the only benefit would be to the already utltra rich.

Do you think Harper and the CPC would have even had a sniff at at getting into power if they campaigned on this? No! That is why they are doing it in secret, as I said if it was at all beneficial to Canadians they would be selling us on the benefits instead of secrecy.

If it would be of benefit to Americans the Bush government would not be doing this in secret either, they would be all over it in a heart beat.

The accusations of treason by those advocating this and moving towards it in secret, have been made by US politicians, they are correct.

If you want to be an American please do leave.