Canada Federal Carbon Dioxide CO2 Tax

[August1991]

ON Sunday, the best climate policy in the world got even better: British Columbia’s carbon tax — a tax on the carbon content of all fossil fuels burned in the province — increased from $25 to $30 per metric ton of carbon dioxide, making it more expensive to pollute.

NYT

Somebody should explain to these two American economists, Yoram Bauman and Shi-Ling Hsu, that Canada already has a carbon tax - at least on gasoline & diesel. This BC tax is just, well, an arbitrary tax. (Yoram Bauman thinks he's the Henny Youngman of economics; I'm sure there's a good joke in this somewhere.)

---

For the record, the BC carbon tax amounts to a 6.7 cents tax on gasoline. From what I can figure, this tax represents about $350 million to the provincial government - or about 70% of the carbon tax revenues of about $500 million. BC's carbon tax applies to other items (propane, jet fuel, coal) that are not covered by the federal excise tax which only covers retail gasoline/diesel.

Incidentally, the US has a federal excise tax of 18.4 cents per US gallon on gasoline. This is about 5 cents per litre, and not far from the supposedly accurate 6.7 cents in BC.

Edited July 7, 2012 by August1991

[socialist]

NYT

Somebody should explain to these two American economists, Yoram Bauman and Shi-Ling Hsu, that Canada already has a carbon tax - at least on gasoline & diesel. This BC tax is just, well, an arbitrary tax. (Yoram Bauman thinks he's the Henny Youngman of economics; I'm sure there's a good joke in this somewhere.)

---

For the record, the BC carbon tax amounts to a 6.7 cents tax on gasoline. From what I can figure, this tax represents about $350 million to the provincial government - or about 70% of the carbon tax revenues of about $500 million. BC's carbon tax applies to other items (propane, jet fuel, coal) that are not covered by the federal excise tax which only covers retail gasoline/diesel.

Incidentally, the US has a federal excise tax of 18.4 cents per US gallon on gasoline. This is about 5 cents per litre, and not far from the supposedly accurate 6.7 cents in BC.

a majority of canadians are pigs who care little about the precious environment. gasoline should be no cheaper than $3 a liter. then maybe the pigs would think twice about driving their gas guzzling suv 5 blocks to pick up a newspaper that was made from killing carbon eating trees. that's how screwed up this country is becoming. look at the deadly storm and heat waves we are now getting. thse things are caused by humans and their pig consumption habits.

[TwoDucks]

NYT

Somebody should explain to these two American economists, Yoram Bauman and Shi-Ling Hsu, that Canada already has a carbon tax - at least on gasoline & diesel. This BC tax is just, well, an arbitrary tax. (Yoram Bauman thinks he's the Henny Youngman of economics; I'm sure there's a good joke in this somewhere.)

---

For the record, the BC carbon tax amounts to a 6.7 cents tax on gasoline. From what I can figure, this tax represents about $350 million to the provincial government - or about 70% of the carbon tax revenues of about $500 million. BC's carbon tax applies to other items (propane, jet fuel, coal) that are not covered by the federal excise tax which only covers retail gasoline/diesel.

Incidentally, the US has a federal excise tax of 18.4 cents per US gallon on gasoline. This is about 5 cents per litre, and not far from the supposedly accurate 6.7 cents in BC.

Calling the excise tax a carbon tax is true in the same sense that calling income tax a carbon tax. After all, people are about 18% carbon by mass.

[Keepitsimple]

You guys do realize that 2/3 of Canada, that's 20,000,000 people, live in the 1,100 km between Windsor and Quebec City right?

And your point is? Most European countries in their entirtety don't stretch for 1100 km. And lets not forget our other 15,000,000 Canadians. It's still a long way to get goods from Quebec to Vancouver or Vancouver to Toronto or Haifax to Calgary. Roger's fine post is well understood by the media and emvironmentalists - they just choose to ignore it because.....because...well, they just do. It certainly doesn't fit with the Environmental activist agenda.

[TwoDucks]

And your point is? Most European countries in their entirtety don't stretch for 1100 km. And lets not forget our other 15,000,000 Canadians. It's still a long way to get goods from Quebec to Vancouver or Vancouver to Toronto or Haifax to Calgary. Roger's fine post is well understood by the media and emvironmentalists - they just choose to ignore it because.....because...well, they just do. It certainly doesn't fit with the Environmental activist agenda.

Intracity travel will take more resources than any given European country. No one is seriously arguing otherwise. That said, Canadian metro areas house 23 million people in less than 100 000 square kilometres. Intercity travel could be dealt with better.

[Keepitsimple]

Intracity travel will take more resources than any given European country. No one is seriously arguing otherwise. That said, Canadian metro areas house 23 million people in less than 100 000 square kilometres. Intercity travel could be dealt with better.

It certainly could. Every major Western city in the world has a subway system that serves as a transit backbone. Here in Toronto, our Leftist councils have been at loggerheads for 25 years - and accomplished next to nothing. That said, lets not lose track of the basic fundamentals of Roger's post - Canada is simply much different than other countries.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Keepitsimple

[August1991]

Calling the excise tax a carbon tax is true in the same sense that calling income tax a carbon tax. After all, people are about 18% carbon by mass.

Huh? Not at all.

The federal GST is a tax on all goods and services, and federal income tax is a tax on all working income. The 10 cent federal excise tax on each litre of gasoline is different. TwoDucks, you should know this.

By my calculation, the federal 10 cent per litre gasoline tax amounts to a $20 megatonne carbon tax. Am I wrong?

Edited July 17, 2012 by August1991

[Wild Bill]

a majority of canadians are pigs who care little about the precious environment. gasoline should be no cheaper than $3 a liter. then maybe the pigs would think twice about driving their gas guzzling suv 5 blocks to pick up a newspaper that was made from killing carbon eating trees. that's how screwed up this country is becoming. look at the deadly storm and heat waves we are now getting. thse things are caused by humans and their pig consumption habits.

Once again we see the real and true ruthless cold heart of the socialist!

Are you living in a cartoon? Most Canadians I see are so damn poor from being over-taxed and from repeatedly losing their jobs from plant closure after plant closure that they can barely afford gas to go to the grocery store. I realize you probably think that they should be taking all those bags from the weekly purchases for a family of 4 on a bicycle, even in the middle of winter. Still, people are doing the best they can as life gets more and more expensive.

It is very hard to be an eco-warrior while your kids are hungry.

Thanks for your in-depth POV and most of all, your compassion!

I drive a 13 year old rusty minivan. I can only dream about an SUV!

What's more, I am FAR from unique!

Edited July 17, 2012 by Wild Bill

[TwoDucks]

Huh? Not at all.

The federal GST is a tax on all goods and services, and federal income tax is a tax on all working income. The 10 cent federal excise tax on each litre of gasoline is different. TwoDucks, you should know this.

By my calculation, the federal 10 cent per litre gasoline tax amounts to a $20 megatonne carbon tax. Am I wrong?

Ok, I was being a bit facetious, so my apologies there. That said, my point is that although you pay a bit more at the pumps with both, that's where the similarities end. The excise tax is there to make money for the government. Although a carbon tax may or may not do that as well, it's also a method to add the negative costs to society to greenhouse gas production. In that sense it's more akin to the cigarette tax.

[August1991]

... my point is that although you pay a bit more at the pumps with both, that's where the similarities end. The excise tax is there to make money for the government. Although a carbon tax may or may not do that as well, it's also a method to add the negative costs to society to greenhouse gas production. In that sense it's more akin to the cigarette tax.

The federal 10 cent per litre excise tax is, by any other name, a CO2 tax. Edited July 17, 2012 by August1991

[TwoDucks]

The federal 10 cent per litre excise tax is, by any other name, a CO2 tax.

No, it's a gas tax. Otherwise how much 10¢ per litre gas tax do you pay on coal?

[blueblood]

No, it's a gas tax. Otherwise how much 10¢ per litre gas tax do you pay on coal?

Why should we be paying a tax on using coal?

[August1991]

No, it's a gas tax. Otherwise how much 10¢ per litre gas tax do you pay on coal?

Agreed. You're right.

But for gasoline, the 10 cent federal excise tax is the equivalent of a CO2 tax.

In Kyoto terms, we're compliant.

[bleeding heart]

Once again we see the real and true ruthless cold heart of the socialist!

Not of "the socialist"; of "poster socialist."

[waldo]

NYT

Somebody should explain to these two American economists, Yoram Bauman and Shi-Ling Hsu, that Canada already has a carbon tax - at least on gasoline & diesel. This BC tax is just, well, an arbitrary tax.

By my calculation, the federal 10 cent per litre gasoline tax amounts to a $20 megatonne carbon tax. Am I wrong?

The federal 10 cent per litre excise tax is, by any other name, a CO2 tax.

But for gasoline, the 10 cent federal excise tax is the equivalent of a CO2 tax.

no - gasoline excise taxes are not carbon taxes... they are not based on per tonne of CO2 equivalent emissions... they are not, by design intent, aimed towards causing a reduction in CO2 emissions.

[madmax]

no - gasoline excise taxes are not carbon taxes... they are not based on per tonne of CO2 equivalent emissions... they are not, by design intent, aimed towards causing a reduction in CO2 emissions.

Yes they are a "Carbon Tax" only in that they are a fixed tax on a Fossil Fuel measure. Nor am I a believer in the Carbon Tax economic nonsense of reduction in CO2 emmissions. That said, the reason governments want GST and Carbon Tax by % on fuel is that the execise taxes have to keep coming back to government to be raised and that is political suicide (Joe Clark). Thus a % based tax goes up with the price of fuel.

Its a tax of fuel, if you believe tax on fuel reduces carbon, then feel free to live in fantasy world. It does increase government revenues and works as a tax more designed to affect those of lesser incomes then greater incomes. Thus a double fantasy for those who ask for lower income taxes for the well off and greater taxes on consumption.

However, if this idea had come in the 70s.......or 80s...

We would likely have fuel costing more money and driving cars without catalytic converters and with Carborators as well as no movement towards 4 gas analysers......

You want emmissions reduced, you tackle the source.

You put in regulations.

But freemarket believers think that the invisible hand with a carbon tax will fix all woes.

good luck with that....

I would hazard a guess that BCs fuel consumption is unchanged, its emmissions unchanged, and its taxe revnues higher.

I recall when BC legislated emmisions testing.

That did more for vehicles and industry jobs then any BS tax scheme.

[blueblood]

Yes they are a "Carbon Tax" only in that they are a fixed tax on a Fossil Fuel measure. Nor am I a believer in the Carbon Tax economic nonsense of reduction in CO2 emmissions. That said, the reason governments want GST and Carbon Tax by % on fuel is that the execise taxes have to keep coming back to government to be raised and that is political suicide (Joe Clark). Thus a % based tax goes up with the price of fuel.

Its a tax of fuel, if you believe tax on fuel reduces carbon, then feel free to live in fantasy world. It does increase government revenues and works as a tax more designed to affect those of lesser incomes then greater incomes. Thus a double fantasy for those who ask for lower income taxes for the well off and greater taxes on consumption.

However, if this idea had come in the 70s.......or 80s...

We would likely have fuel costing more money and driving cars without catalytic converters and with Carborators as well as no movement towards 4 gas analysers......

You want emmissions reduced, you tackle the source.

You put in regulations.

But freemarket believers think that the invisible hand with a carbon tax will fix all woes.

good luck with that....

I would hazard a guess that BCs fuel consumption is unchanged, its emmissions unchanged, and its taxe revnues higher.

I recall when BC legislated emmisions testing.

That did more for vehicles and industry jobs then any BS tax scheme.

And the price of oil at 147 dollars on the NYMEX did even more than that. Remember hummers?

People don't like paying 1.50 per litre of gasoline, hence we have demand destruction and consumers moving to smaller cars.

[August1991]

I have had enough of this nonsense.

Please, someone on Trudeau Jnr's team, explain that we have already a federal excise tax on gasoline - the equivalent of a "carbon dioxide tax".

Quote

About 19.64 pounds of carbon dioxide (CO2) are produced from burning a gallon of gasoline that does not contain ethanol. About 22.38 pounds of CO2 are produced from burning a gallon of diesel fuel.

https://www.eia.gov/

====

We Canadians don't need another "carbon tax". If current politicians believe current scientists and their theories of climate change, I urge the federal government to impose a special, high CO2 tax on "jet fuel".

 

Edited March 13, 2017 by Charles Anthony
fixed mal-formed quote

[blackbird]

I am opposed to carbon taxes of any kind.  I am not convinced man-made global warming is anything more than fiction.  Leftist politicians and governments love it because it gives them an excuse to tax us.   In the last eight years in B.C. I paid over two thousands dollars in direct carbon taxes and more on the indirect increase in the price of everything.  We are one of the few places in the world that pay any carbon taxes.  Most people on the planet pay nothing.  In fact only a select few in B.C. pay significant carbon taxes.  There is a 7% carbon tax on natural gas heating and auto gas.  So those living in apartments and riding rapid transit pay almost nothing.  Those who heat their homes with electricity or wood stoves pay no carbon taxes.  There was a small tax cut but that applied to everyone so it was spread around to all taxpayers.  Those who paid little or no carbon taxes got the rebate, while those who paid most of the carbon taxes got the same small tax break.  

Canada as a whole only emits about 1.9% of the world's CO2 emissions and B.C. a tiny fraction of that.  Carbon taxes in B.C. have done nothing to curb global warming which always has been a natural phenomena.  It is just a scam and tax grab.

[BillyBeaver]

Carbon-caused ocean acidification is real. The Great Barrier Reef isn't deteriorating on its own. In 5 years, once the radiation from Fukushima has tainted most of the seafood in the Pacific, including our own salmon stock, global warming wont matter at all. If our oceans die, we die, they are far more important to the longevity of the planet.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

I am opposed to carbon taxes of any kind.  I am not convinced man-made global warming is anything more than fiction.  Leftist politicians and governments love it because it gives them an excuse to tax us.   In the last eight years in B.C. I paid over two thousands dollars in direct carbon taxes and more on the indirect increase in the price of everything.  We are one of the few places in the world that pay any carbon taxes.  Most people on the planet pay nothing.  In fact only a select few in B.C. pay significant carbon taxes.  There is a 7% carbon tax on natural gas heating and auto gas.  So those living in apartments and riding rapid transit pay almost nothing.  Those who heat their homes with electricity or wood stoves pay no carbon taxes.  There was a small tax cut but that applied to everyone so it was spread around to all taxpayers.  Those who paid little or no carbon taxes got the rebate, while those who paid most of the carbon taxes got the same small tax break.  

Canada as a whole only emits about 1.9% of the world's CO2 emissions and B.C. a tiny fraction of that.  Carbon taxes in B.C. have done nothing to curb global warming which always has been a natural phenomena.  It is just a scam and tax grab.

Nothing any of us do will curb global warming.  It won't be curbed. 

[hot enough]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

I am not convinced man-made global warming is anything more than fiction. 

You are hardly in any position to decide such a complicated thing. 

 

 

[Wilber]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

Nothing any of us do will curb global warming.  It won't be curbed. 

Maybe not but we can buy time to deal with the results.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Wilber said:

Maybe not but we can buy time to deal with the results.

Not without suffering, and people are unwilling to suffer.  Everybody thinks it'll be okay if we can just get an agreement to think about a potential commitment to cut carbon emissions back to 2016 levels by 2075, if we really, really want to.  Perhaps it can be made in Rio, or Brisbane. 

[Wilber]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

Not without suffering, and people are unwilling to suffer.  Everybody thinks it'll be okay if we can just get an agreement to think about a potential commitment to cut carbon emissions back to 2016 levels by 2075, if we really, really want to.  Perhaps it can be made in Rio, or Brisbane. 

Why should people suffer?