Palestine: Peace or Apartheid

[buffycat]

Rue, I'll say it again - you certainly are a piece of work!

Can you manage to get my name right? Or just needed to insult again? uh...yah.

Anyhow, you say that any Muslim bent on destruction of Israel wouldn't take money from Israel to further their desires? How silly - of course they would and they would laugh all the way to the bank! Ha!

Have you never heard of false flag ops? Or the term 'Patsies'??

How about the Lavon Affair?

Now, can you debate in a nice way? Without all the dripping oils of sarcasm and rude remarks? I doubt somehow. Can you be brief and not contradict yourself wrt both Funding and Support as well as the obvious mistake which was made concerning your 'so-called' Hamas website?

No? Okay then - never mind and see ya.

[Rue]

"Rue, I'll say it again - you certainly are a piece of work!"

Now you want to heroworship moi? Oh how precious. a gushing teeny bopper.

"Can you manage to get my name right? Or just needed to insult again? uh...yah."

I am sorry Puffy.

"Anyhow, you say that any Muslim bent on destruction of Israel wouldn't take money from Israel to further their desires? How silly - of course they would and they would laugh all the way to the bank! Ha! Have you never heard of false flag ops? Or the term 'Patsies'?? How about the Lavon Affair? "

Charming but one problem Gruffy your analogies completely miss the point. We are talking about terrorist cells that would sooner blow themselves up rather then take anything from an Israeli. You would understand that if you could understand the psyche of what makes a terrorist in the Middle East. I am being serious now you are way off base. Do not mistake these terrorists-the same thing that causes them to engage in terror is precisely what would never allow them to take a thing from an Israeli. Rather then listen to little old moi Luffy, why don't you write Hamas or Al Fatah-write to their web-site and ask them and see what kind of response you get to the notion they took money from Mossad or Shin Bet.

"Now, can you debate in a nice way? Without all the dripping oils of sarcasm and rude remarks? "

O.k. I will try sweety. You are right Ruffy I have been a tad rude. Sorry.

"I doubt somehow. Can you be brief and not contradict yourself wrt both Funding and Support as well as the obvious mistake which was made concerning your 'so-called' Hamas website?"

I have only sent you my love and wishes because you still think what I have said about funding and support has contradicted itself. I have tried to painstakingly spell out the difference between funding charities, hospitals and schools from funding terrorist cells. I will make you a deal Yuffy. Tell me you understand the difference between a terrorist cell and a charity or school, and I won't send you any more love letters.

"No? Okay then - never mind and see ya."

On a more serious note, I am fully aware I am a gruff, nasty old fart. I also acknowledge that it is not good to try win someone over by being sarcastic. Its a Zionist trait. Oops it slipped.

[Figleaf]

"Rue, I'll say it again - you certainly are a piece of work!"

Now you want to heroworship moi? Oh how precious. a gushing teeny bopper.

"Can you manage to get my name right? Or just needed to insult again? uh...yah."

I am sorry Puffy.

Reported.

[Rue]

Buffy I am being serious now and susinct. Here is a passage from Al JAzeera about Hamas;

"Hamas was funded directly and indirectly during the 1970s and 1980s by various states including Saudi Arabia. The political/charitable arm of Hamas was officially registered and recognized within Israel at this time: indeed Israel supported and encouraged Hamas' early growth in an effort to undermine the secular Fatah movement. Hamas abstained from politics throughout the 1970s and early 1980s, concentrating on social issues such as exposing corruption, administration of waqf (trusts) and organizing community projects. Towards the mid-80s, however, the movement was taken over by an armed faction led by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin.

The acronym "Hamas" first appeared in 1987 in a leaflet accusing Israeli intelligence services of undermining the moral fiber of Palestinian youth as part of their recruitment of "collaborators." The use of violence by Hamas appeared almost contemporaneously with the First Intifada, beginning with the so-called punishment of collaborators, progressing to attacks against Israeli military targets."

Can you please notice how the term" Hamas" is used to describe Hamas before Hamas was even created? In the Middle East, when Hamas is referred to, it is often used interchangeably with the organizations that in fact pre-existed it.

More to the point can you see from this pro-Hamas article that it is stating what I have stated, what was in fact supported by Israel was what they are referring to as a political or charitable arm, because as I said, what Israel was doing was just that funding charities, schools, hospitals or paying Palestinian teachers, social workers directly. As I stated Israel paid the salary of 11,000 Palestinian teachers an danother 8,000 Palestinians. The payments went through its military civil administration and they were meant to undermine not just Al Fatah but ANY other terrorist organization in Palestine. The payments would not go to "Hamas" which the above shows you is used inyer-changeably with what would have been charitable organizations supported by Hamas and thus referred to as Hamas. Hamas would not take the money directly. It came indirectly straight to the actual school or charity or mosque.

Now my other point is that the web-site you think is Israeli or Zionist is using precisely the words from Hamas. Go on to any pro-Hamas web-site and compare. Its the same words.

In this scheme of thing the only people who disagree with who Israel funded are not Hamas, Fatah or Israel but a few geniuses in Canada who think they know better. That is the point I was making.

Since you are bored with my books, I will hold off but if you want me to show you the wording of Hamas and how it describes itself so you can compare it to the alleged Zionist source I gave you so you can see its the same wording, I will. Israel and Hamas and Fatah do not argue over their origins. It is not something they disagree on.

Please check for yourself who funds and funded Hamas's terrorist cell and Fatah and the other terror organizations. Check for yourself. (hint-N. Korea, China, the former Societ Union, Deuxieme Bureau, Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Sudan, Iran)

[jbg]

"....it was I who mentioned that Hamas was originally funded and backed by the Israeli Admin to counter the PLO. ..."

And it was Figleaf and Higgly who couldn't resist getting in on the giggling and repeating what you said. But now that you have outed yourself welcome. The Three Stooegs are fully outed. Which one are you, Moe?

"This is simple historical fact "

Well "simple" yes, historic fact, no.

My vote is that even if it is historically true, it was necessary for Israel to divide its enemies. Israel is a country whose people want nothing more than to be left alone. Any and all of their military activities have been so that any peace it obtains is permanent, not the temporary peace springboarding to war that the Palestinian fighting groups of all identities want.

[sharkman]

"Rue, I'll say it again - you certainly are a piece of work!"

Now you want to heroworship moi? Oh how precious. a gushing teeny bopper.

"Can you manage to get my name right? Or just needed to insult again? uh...yah."

I am sorry Puffy.

Reported.

You've got to be kidding me. You are acting like a little baby.

[Figleaf]

"Rue, I'll say it again - you certainly are a piece of work!"

Now you want to heroworship moi? Oh how precious. a gushing teeny bopper.

"Can you manage to get my name right? Or just needed to insult again? uh...yah."

I am sorry Puffy.

Reported.

You've got to be kidding me. You are acting like a little baby.

No, Rue is acting like a baby, bringing down the tone of the forum by insulting and provoking people with peurile taunts.

[ScottSA]

"Rue, I'll say it again - you certainly are a piece of work!"

Now you want to heroworship moi? Oh how precious. a gushing teeny bopper.

"Can you manage to get my name right? Or just needed to insult again? uh...yah."

I am sorry Puffy.

Reported.

You've got to be kidding me. You are acting like a little baby.

He is a disruptive influence to this forum. I think if he absolutely has to run around tattling, that he ought to do it quietly and unobtrusively so that he doesn't plunk his silliness down in the middle of every thread every time someone says something he doesn't like..

[Guest chilipeppers]

Now my other point is that the web-site you think is Israeli or Zionist is using precisely the words from Hamas. Go on to any pro-Hamas web-site and compare. Its the same words.

In this scheme of thing the only people who disagree with who Israel funded are not Hamas, Fatah or Israel but a few geniuses in Canada who think they know better. That is the point I was making.

Since you are bored with my books, I will hold off but if you want me to show you the wording of Hamas and how it describes itself so you can compare it to the alleged Zionist source I gave you so you can see its the same wording, I will. Israel and Hamas and Fatah do not argue over their origins. It is not something they disagree on.

Please check for yourself who funds and funded Hamas's terrorist cell and Fatah and the other terror organizations. Check for yourself. (hint-N. Korea, China, the former Societ Union, Deuxieme Bureau, Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Sudan, Iran)

Thank you Rue for putting this straight, I am enjoying your posts. I don't understand why the borderline anti semitics would find any of it a laughing matter.

[Figleaf]

He is a disruptive influence to this forum. I think if he absolutely has to run around tattling, that he ought to do it quietly and unobtrusively so that he doesn't plunk his silliness down in the middle of every thread every time someone says something he doesn't like..

1. Your complaints about my reporting practices have become repetitive and tedious.

2. Liking a comment or not is not the measure. The measure is the rules (q.v.)

3. If I didn't tell someone when I report them, they might never learn what actions to avoid. And I might be accused of secrecy.

4. Your whinging responses each time I note a report are lengthier and therefore much more disruptive of the thread than is the initial note of a report.

5. Please explain why you think the forum rules should be ignored, and then explain why I should care.

[M.Dancer]

"Rue, I'll say it again - you certainly are a piece of work!"

Now you want to heroworship moi? Oh how precious. a gushing teeny bopper.

"Can you manage to get my name right? Or just needed to insult again? uh...yah."

I am sorry Puffy.

Reported.

You've got to be kidding me. You are acting like a little baby.

seconded

[M.Dancer]

2. Liking a comment or not is not the measure. The measure is the rules (q.v.)

That would be true if you reported everytime a rule had been bent, but it's ovious to anyone with half a brain that you don't, and it's equally obvious that you are selective and vindictive baby.

[ScottSA]

He is a disruptive influence to this forum. I think if he absolutely has to run around tattling, that he ought to do it quietly and unobtrusively so that he doesn't plunk his silliness down in the middle of every thread every time someone says something he doesn't like..

1. Your complaints about my reporting practices have become repetitive and tedious.

2. Liking a comment or not is not the measure. The measure is the rules (q.v.)

3. If I didn't tell someone when I report them, they might never learn what actions to avoid. And I might be accused of secrecy.

4. Your whinging responses each time I note a report are lengthier and therefore much more disruptive of the thread than is the initial note of a report.

5. Please explain why you think the forum rules should be ignored, and then explain why I should care.

1 Your tattling is becoming repetitive and tedious. Far more people are complaining about it than about me pointing it out.

2 The measure is minding one's own business and not puffing up as a self-appointed hall monitor.

3 Why is it up to you to run around warning people? Are you a member of the moderator youth? Are you trying to work toward Gruppkapitan 1st class? Greg is perfectly capable of admining this place without you derailing threads, and obviously no one likes it, or the complaint posts following every stupid "reported" post wouldn't exist.

4 Your ridiculous "reported" posts are disruptive, pointless, and aimed at nothing more than giving you the petty satisfaction of trying to get people in trouble.

5 Your premise is all haywire. Asking you to stfu is not an endorsement of rule breaking or rule ignoring, it's simply asking you to stfu. Greg is the admin here. If he gives me a warning, I listen to it and try to correct my behaviour. Your disruptive posts do nothing but disrupt. Why not hold a poll and see just how many people want you to continue with this childish inane behaviour? Do you actually imagine that you "help" people to see the error of their ways?

Greg is obviously of the common sense school of admining: if someone does nothing but slag others, they will be banned. If someone makes a mis-step, then it is ignored. If someone who is a valuable poster has a bad day and is overcome with the need to call fools fools, then they will be warned. By Greg, not you. Why not take a gander at all the people asking you to knock it off? It's not like you have to DO anything to comply, just stop reporting people, or if you must report them, do it quietly. What is so hard about that?

[Figleaf]

1 Your tattling is becoming repetitive and tedious. Far more people are complaining about it than about me pointing it out.

Your opinion on this is not very interesting to me. If my reporting seems tedious, imagine how tedious it is to keep seeing insults cluttering the forum!

2 The measure is minding one's own business and not puffing up as a self-appointed hall monitor.

As a regular visitor here, the continuation of forum discussions in accordance with the rules is of interest to me. It IS my business, along with everyone else's.

3 Why is it up to you to run around warning people?

I already explained that. Why are you asking me to repeat myself?

Greg is perfectly capable of admining this place without you...

Actually, Greg has told posters frequently that he can't read the whole forum and we should report violations to him. You should inform yourself mor thoroughly before spewing your errant opinions.

4 Your ridiculous "reported" posts are disruptive, pointless, and aimed at nothing more than giving you the petty satisfaction of trying to get people in trouble.

Once again, I'll point out that your opinion on this matter is of no real concern to me. What is more disruptive is your reacting like a spoiled child every time I do what the Admin here has specified as the proper course of action. Grow up and stop wasting everyone's time.

... Asking you to stfu is not an endorsement of rule breaking or rule ignoring, it's simply asking you to stfu.

About what?

Why not hold a poll and see just how many people want you to continue with this...

Because I don't care.

Do you actually imagine that you "help" people to see the error of their ways?

Yes.

Why not take a gander at all the people asking you to knock it off?

You and your little friend Dancer. Whoopee.

[M.Dancer]

1 Your tattling is becoming repetitive and tedious. Far more people are complaining about it than about me pointing it out.

Your opinion on this is not very interesting to me. If my reporting seems tedious, imagine how tedious it is to keep seeing insults cluttering the forum!

2 The measure is minding one's own business and not puffing up as a self-appointed hall monitor.

As a regular visitor here, the continuation of forum discussions in accordance with the rules is of interest to me. It IS my business, along with everyone else's.

3 Why is it up to you to run around warning people?

I already explained that. Why are you asking me to repeat myself?

Greg is perfectly capable of admining this place without you...

Actually, Greg has told posters frequently that he can't read the whole forum and we should report violations to him. You should inform yourself mor thoroughly before spewing your errant opinions.

4 Your ridiculous "reported" posts are disruptive, pointless, and aimed at nothing more than giving you the petty satisfaction of trying to get people in trouble.

Once again, I'll point out that your opinion on this matter is of no real concern to me. What is more disruptive is your reacting like a spoiled child every time I do what the Admin here has specified as the proper course of action. Grow up and stop wasting everyone's time.

... Asking you to stfu is not an endorsement of rule breaking or rule ignoring, it's simply asking you to stfu.

About what?

Why not hold a poll and see just how many people want you to continue with this...

Because I don't care.

Do you actually imagine that you "help" people to see the error of their ways?

Yes.

Why not take a gander at all the people asking you to knock it off?

You and your little friend Dancer. Whoopee.

And Guyser.....and sharkman

[Rue]

...the world of Figleaf where information is black and white and when it comes from different addresses it must be different because its from Zionists.

You're just astonishing. The dishonesty is incredible. You said a website was a Hamas website and it was not a Hamas website, it was owned by a group called the Zionist Organization of America. I made no comment on the INFORMATION, I was noting that YOU gave the wrong source for the information.

No the information is the same. You have decided to say the source of the information comes from "Zionists". It doesn't. It was repeated by these so called "Zionists but comes from the Hamas web-site then repeated on the "Zionist" web site and I referred to it as being a Hamas web site the same reason you refer to charities, and schools and municipal councils Israel funded as being Hamas.

If you can not detect the sarcasm Figleaf what can I do? If your brain is that rigid you can't decipher when someone is being sarcastic at the use of the word Hamas then so be it. But there is no smoking gun. The info on the so called Zionist web site comes from Hamas.

There now as much as you try act as if you "caught" me it doesn't dettract from the original point that you jumped on the band wagon with your usual Israel bad bad bad mantras and tried to infer that Israel supported not just Hamas but Hamas's terrorist wing. Then when I point out "Hamas" os often used inaccurately to describe organizations such as schools and charities that are funded by Hamas but not part of Hamas you still don't get it and say I am admitting Israel funded Hamas.

Bottom line-you are a Zionist Figleaf. Admit it.

[Rue]

...the world of Figleaf where information is black and white and when it comes from different addresses it must be different because its from Zionists.

You're just astonishing. The dishonesty is incredible. You said a website was a Hamas website and it was not a Hamas website, it was owned by a group called the Zionist Organization of America. I made no comment on the INFORMATION, I was noting that YOU gave the wrong source for the information.

No the information is the same. You have decided to say the source of the information comes from "Zionists". It doesn't. It was repeated by these so called "Zionists but comes from the Hamas web-site then repeated on the "Zionist" web site and I referred to it as being a Hamas web site the same reason you refer to charities, and schools and municipal councils Israel funded as being Hamas.

If you can not detect the sarcasm Figleaf what can I do? If your brain is that rigid you can't decipher when someone is being sarcastic at the use of the word Hamas then so be it. But there is no smoking gun. The info on the so called Zionist web site comes from Hamas.

There now as much as you try act as if you "caught" me it doesn't dettract from the original point that you jumped on the band wagon with your usual Israel bad bad bad mantras and tried to infer that Israel supported not just Hamas but Hamas's terrorist wing. Then when I point out "Hamas" os often used inaccurately to describe organizations such as schools and charities that are funded by Hamas but not part of Hamas you still don't get it and say I am admitting Israel funded Hamas.

Bottom line-you are a Zionist Figleaf. Admit it.

REPORTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rue]

"Rue, I'll say it again - you certainly are a piece of work!"

Now you want to heroworship moi? Oh how precious. a gushing teeny bopper.

"Can you manage to get my name right? Or just needed to insult again? uh...yah."

I am sorry Puffy.

Reported.

You've got to be kidding me. You are acting like a little baby.

I reported you to my cat.

[Rue]

2. Liking a comment or not is not the measure. The measure is the rules (q.v.)

That would be true if you reported everytime a rule had been bent, but it's ovious to anyone with half a brain that you don't, and it's equally obvious that you are selective and vindictive baby.

I reported you to my other cat.

My cats are Zionists too. They are. They like salami and lox.

[scribblet]

Sheez guys back to the topic.... Rue good work

I kinda get the feeling that some people would blame Katrina on Israel, (probably a conspiracy theory out there somewhere on that)

In an alternate universe, Arabs parties are completely without blame Israel is behind everything and completely at fault.

[buffycat]

Rue,

What about Fatah? What about the supplying of weapons to them - condoned both by the US and Israel? What about the original topic here, the occupation?

Instead of hurling your dripping insults at folk - can you even address these things in a civil fashion? From what I have witnessed - you can't. Even when you do supply info which is relevant, you still diverge and act really patronizing. Not an indicator of a winning debate on your front - it detracts from some of the truths you do actually manage to utter.

I thought that Carter raised some very valid points about the occupation and what it has meant to over a generation of Palestinian people. If the Israelis really want to keep breeding terrorism then keep doing what they have been, if they really want peace - which does mean sacrifice - then get off the pot.

Often I think that alot of this has to do with scarce resources in the alotted lands of Israel proper (within the green line). The wall itself has taken a decidedly nasty turn by looping into Palestinian lands for their watersheds - this even the Israel Courts see and have tried to make a small difference. Coupled with all the checkpoints and illegal settlements one can easily see why the native Palestinians are a little miffed. There are many Israelis who also feel ashamed of their governments actions with respect to the occupied territories - I have cited B'Tselem to you and not a peep.

Leaves me wondering why you post the way you do - are you here pretending to be a Jew and acting so rude as to give other Jews a bad name? Or are you simply a very angry individual? who knows... I wonder though.

I'll await your usual non-response.

[buffycat]

Sheez guys back to the topic.... Rue good work

I kinda get the feeling that some people would blame Katrina on Israel, (probably a conspiracy theory out there somewhere on that)

In an alternate universe, Arabs parties are completely without blame Israel is behind everything and completely at fault.

Scribbling as usual I see!

No one here said Arabs were completely without blame, nor is anyone here saying Israel is to blame for Katrina! Gosh you love to exaggerate and plant false paraphases! We are though, talking about an illegal occupation by Israel of Palestine - and how this occupation has effected life on both sides, granted mostly on how it effects lives within the refugee camps and Palestinian villages - the topic of Carter's book (which certainly does have its ups and downs).

Now, Scribbles can you manage to stay on topic - or are you just going to rush in where fools fear to tread?

[Guthrie]

after WWII, the Palestinians were minding their own business, tending their farms and raising their families --- they were certainly not to blame for the invasion that saw them murdered and driven off their farms by tanks

but NO, you're right, they are NOT Arabs

[DogOnPorch]

after WWII, the Palestinians were minding their own business, tending their farms and raising their families --- they were certainly not to blame for the invasion that saw them murdered and driven off their farms by tanks

but NO, you're right, they are NOT Arabs

Who was the Arab's leader during this period (before WW2 and well beyond)? What was his role in WW2? What was his role during the 1948 war?

Re: HAMAS

This site should help...

http://www.cfr.org/publication/8968/

------------------------------------------------------

Muslims responded to the call of Muslim leaders and joined our side because of their hatred of our joint Jewish-English-Bolshevik enemies, and because of their belief and respect for, above all...Our Fuehrer.

---Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler

[Guthrie]

after WWII, the Palestinians were minding their own business, tending their farms and raising their families --- they were certainly not to blame for the invasion that saw them murdered and driven off their farms by tanks

but NO, you're right, they are NOT Arabs

Who was the Arab's leader during this period (before WW2 and well beyond)? What was his role in WW2? What was his role during the 1948 war?

Re: HAMAS

This site should help...

http://www.cfr.org/publication/8968/

------------------------------------------------------

Muslims responded to the call of Muslim leaders and joined our side because of their hatred of our joint Jewish-English-Bolshevik enemies, and because of their belief and respect for, above all...Our Fuehrer.

---Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler

what does it matter?

but I do know who the CFR are -- and they have no connection to honesty nor decency nor truth -- no, I don't accept them as an authority to be cited on any subject - they are frauds