Non Muslim Kills 3 Girls

[JerrySeinfeld]

I assume this is impossible for you, but when you pose an hoinest question, I will answer it. Or are you seriously too stupid to see your own dishonesty?

The most disgusting part is that you're willing to forgo a woman's most basic human rights to make some kind of ideological point (not quite sure what it is). Keep closing your eyes, guys. Keep 'em closed to the reality around you. The first link is PBS. Find BBC and other links below.

http://www.pbs.org/speaktruthtopower/rana.html

http://www.gendercide.org/case_honour.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england...don/3149030.stm

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0707/p06s02-woeu.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml.../27/wturk27.xml

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=34836

http://www.boloji.com/wfs3/wfs312.htm

http://jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/008846.php

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3094736.stm

http://www.countercurrents.org/gender-dasgupta210204.htm

[Rue]

Yeah, yeah. But if it was a Muslim and Argus started going off about death cult goat herders raping women and killing indiscriminantly, you wouldn't have any objection.

We had this same sort of stupid, smirking post during the Boxing Day shooting threads. The point from the Left seems to be that if they post one or two crimes posted by Whites, well then, anyone talking about crime commited by other races or groups is clearly countered!

Of course there is crime by Whites. Eighty five percent of the population is White. No one has ever suggested there is not crime by Whites.

The suggestion is that a vastly disproportionate amount of crime is commited by non-whites.

Posting one or two White crimes to refute that is ludicrous. There were four very violent crimes commited in Ottawa over the last ten days involving four deaths. All involved ethnics. This is not unusual. Most murders - other than famiily related - commited in Toronto are by non-Whites. Most street crime is by non-whites.

And most complaints about Muslims are about religiously inspired violence, not general crime. Although, in the case cited above, statistics appear to be showing that Muslim immigrants in some nordic countries are responsible for a vastly disproportionate amount of crime, especially sex crimes against women. By some statistics the majority of rapists are Muslims.

Of course Argus you are dead on and spefically the point that this foolish poster is trying to compare general crime and probably acts inspired by what now appears to be a mentally ill man with sexual problems with

another completely different issue and that is religious inspired terrorism or violence. Nothing this man did was inspired by Christian clerics or Zionist Rabbiahs or Wide-eyed Buddist Monks or Crazed Hindu priests, The comparison is deliberately odious and it shows an appalling amount of ignorance.

This crime was in fact typical of a crime that has nothing to do with religious beliefs. The criminal is almost always a male, has unresolved sexual conflicts, feels alienated and hates himself, never feels he will be accepted by main stream society and has anger towards women who he blames for his feelings of inadequacy.

There is a reason women are targeted out and killed and there is a reason it is often young women in the prime of their life.

This is what happens when men do not learn to channel their anger and learn respect and boundaries during their early years.

To try turn this into a defence or political exercise to suggest people can not criticize the Muslim religion for being violent is pathetic and there was nothing witty or funny about it.

Intelligent people know you can criticize a religion or people acting in the name of a religion without hating Muslims as people. Then again these trendy leftists are so convinced they are right and everyone else is wrong that they act like fools trying to show us how superior to us they are when they disagree with us.

I am not as classic conservative like you Argus, I am probably have many more Liberal tendencies, but I appreciate sometimes you are susinct and dead on. Your comments calmed me down.

As for those relatives and the community what can any of us do but either pray for them of think positive things for them. Its disgusting like Dawson College and all the others. What a society we live in when we turn on our children and act like depraved psychoes and then try use such a tragedy to make arguements about something totally unrelated. It shows a remarkable lack of spirituality or undestanding of what violent death is and what causes it - and if anything we have to understand how this was in fact an act of sexual violence against young women as was the case with Dawson College and the other horrible shooting.

Rather then try get smug about it, let us define it for what it is, violence against women.

[M.Dancer]

This crime was in fact typical of a crime that has nothing to do with religious beliefs

Very good...well done....

No off you go and have a read and post even in the ramadan riots thread.....or if your will, the honour kiulling thread.......off you go...no lingering...you got work to do......

....nothing to do with religious beliefs...cn't for the life of me figure out why that took so long........

[M.Dancer]

To try turn this into a defence or political exercise to suggest people can not criticize the Muslim religion for being violent is pathetic and there was nothing witty or funny about it.

Gosh...just when I thought you were having an epiphany you go and ruin it......

........yeah....people aren't violent...religions are......not only that...it ain't some whack job interpretation...who is usually always a male, has unresolved sexual conflicts, feels alienated and hates himself, never feels he will be accepted by main stream society and has anger towards women who he blames for his feelings of inadequacy. .......it ain't that....it's religion.......

.......ain't no insidious racism here...no siree bob......

[JerrySeinfeld]

Listen.

Instead of making your best (unsuccessful) attempt to be a smartipants let's get down to fact.

Can I ask you a question because you seem to blindly support aspects of certain cultures that are clearly undesirable by western standards.

So let's be upfront here: If a society has a practise of systematically abusing, gang raping, opressing and even murdering women. Or perhaps blaming women for being raped...is this something that should be condoned in your eyes?

[Riverwind]

So let's be upfront here: If a society has a practise of systematically abusing, gang raping, oppression and even murdering women. Or perhaps blaming women for being raped...is this something that should be condoned in your eyes?

Blame the society and culture - not the religion or race. Some cultures are toxic and we should not apologize for criticizing the culture. However, we have to be extremely careful to avoid over generalizing -> a single society will have many sub-cultures only some of which are toxic.

[Shakeyhands]

It is a terrible tragedy. I can't help but think of those poor kids as they were being tied together to the board....then being executed at point blank.

I hope none of the girls' relatives see this thread.

Now that right there is funny!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JerrySeinfeld]

So let's be upfront here: If a society has a practise of systematically abusing, gang raping, oppression and even murdering women. Or perhaps blaming women for being raped...is this something that should be condoned in your eyes?

Blame the society and culture - not the religion or race. Some cultures are toxic and we should not apologize for criticizing the culture. However, we have to be extremely careful to avoid over generalizing -> a single society will have many sub-cultures only some of which are toxic.

Sure - but society and culture in the Islamic sense are all heavily indlunced by religion in Islamic countries.

You must understand - Islamists don't see borders.

For modern Islamists, the goal of having a worldwide Islamic Republic has nothing to do with having a flag and an Olympic team. It has to do with the level of influence teh religion has over the space.

For example, the Fatwa against Salmon Rushdie was basically a transnational bounty placed upon his head by Ayatollah Khomeini and to be carried out by Muslims worldwide.

The same is the case for Jihad or "a day of rage" over the pope's comments or the Danish Cartoons, or the Bruger King Chocolate Swirl.....or the......

Islamists think globally but act locally. All the lefties who were worried about "globalization" exploiting far away, backward countries are in for a big surprise.

Cultural Globalisation works in the opposite way too - and those far away, porr backward countries who saw off heads and shoot women in the back of the head for extra marital affairs are exporting to US as much as we export to them.

This is why we end up with a Muslim man in Paris who attacks his next door neighbour, shoots him six times in the chest and rips his face off with a fork...then walks back up the stairs shouting "now I can go to heavan, I have killed my jew."

Multiculturalism is a pleasant thought when it involves a good selection of restaurants and some new music. And that's how alot of lefties percieve it. But how do they reconcile the backwards atrocities that occur daily in our "free societies" in the name of intimidation and Allah?

[Michael Hardner]

It doesn't sound like that behavior is endemic to the religion, though.

I think that the Founding Fathers wanted to create a country with freedom. First the Christians came, then Jews, Buddhists, and others. But somehow, now Muslims aren't supposed to come over here and evolve like the rest of us ?

Why not ?

Your proof consists of horrifying anecdotes from the other side of the world. The same, and worse, comes from African superstitions. Should we keep Africans out too ?

If we're going to win, it won't be by building a wall around ourselves. It'll be because our way is better for everyone.

[JerrySeinfeld]

It doesn't sound like that behavior is endemic to the religion, though.

I think that the Founding Fathers wanted to create a country with freedom. First the Christians came, then Jews, Buddhists, and others. But somehow, now Muslims aren't supposed to come over here and evolve like the rest of us ?

Why not ?

Your proof consists of horrifying anecdotes from the other side of the world. The same, and worse, comes from African superstitions. Should we keep Africans out too ?

If we're going to win, it won't be by building a wall around ourselves. It'll be because our way is better for everyone.

You're missing my point.

If we are to win, it will be by having confidence in our culture and traditions - not by knuckling under to each and every demand of militant muslims - just for the sake of "sensitivity"

We need to draw a line.

It is NOT acceptable for religious groups to intimidate governments, organizations, media or private enterprise into editing any and everything they find offensive.

Since when do we have a right NOT TO BE OFFENDED anyway?

This isn't about building a REAL fence, it's about building a virtual one - around who we are and what we believe in - freedom of speech, women's rights, peaceful protest (as opposed to violent intimidation).

Did you know there was a Muslim MP in britain who came out after the London plane-plot arrests attributing the attack to “mounting frustration on the streets of the Arab world” over the west’s “perceived bias” on Iraq and Lebanon.

Lebanon? Hey, why not? Reuters laid the August Heathrow bomb plot at the feet of Tony Blair for “refusing to call for an immediate ceasefire” in Lebanon. That’s right, folks. You don’t have to invade anyone, you don’t have to be supporting one side or the other even rhetorically, you don’t have to say a word on the subject. Simply being tardy in issuing a press release demanding a ceasefire is a sufficient “root cause”. Tony Blair is the root cause of jihad, and so is the Iraq war. And though neither explains 9/11 or Bali, nor why non-Iraq combatants such as Canada and Germany have been targeted, it’s apparently not self-evidently risible to the hundreds of reporters who type it up every other day.

We need to stop our self-hatred of our own society - quickly looking at ourselves as the cause of every attack upon us or other innocent civilians.

Haven't you noticed the Muslim fanatics have caught onto this societal self hatred?

Keep in mind the old Arab saying "A FALLING CAMEL ATTRACTS MANY KNIVES" - and our attitudes of self-hatred and blame is percieved on their side as weakness. See the more we start to understand that they don't think the way we wo, the better chance we have of turning around this massive demongraphic trend before its too late- as it is in Europe.

[Charles Anthony]

If we're going to win, it won't be by building a wall around ourselves. It'll be because our way is better for everyone.

Precisely.

It is within closed societies that racism and bigotry grow.

This is disgusting:

Sure - but society and culture in the Islamic sense are all heavily indlunced by religion in Islamic countries.

You must understand - Islamists don't see borders.

Stop. I do not see borders either.

You know diddly-squat about Islam and you are fabricating paranoia. Your rant is either pure racism or it is childish.

Multiculturalism is a pleasant thought when it involves a good selection of restaurants and some new music. And that's how alot of lefties percieve it. But how do they reconcile the backwards atrocities that occur daily in our "free societies" in the name of intimidation and Allah?

I do not know how your "lefties" reconcile it but I will tell you how I do: the exact same way as I reconcile all violent crime. Some people are evil and some people do evil. I do not give a damn about blaming OTHER people who share similar ancestry or culture.

If we are to win, it will be by having confidence in our culture and traditions - not by knuckling under to each and every demand of militant muslims - just for the sake of "sensitivity"

We need to draw a line.

You are painting TOO MANY people with the same brush. Do you even know anybody who is Islamic???

People like you are part of the problem. Grow up and stop spreading hatred!!

[JerrySeinfeld]

If we're going to win, it won't be by building a wall around ourselves. It'll be because our way is better for everyone.

Precisely.

It is within closed societies that racism and bigotry grow.

This is disgusting:

Sure - but society and culture in the Islamic sense are all heavily indlunced by religion in Islamic countries.

You must understand - Islamists don't see borders.

Stop. I do not see borders either.

You know diddly-squat about Islam and you are fabricating paranoia. Your rant is either pure racism or it is childish.

Multiculturalism is a pleasant thought when it involves a good selection of restaurants and some new music. And that's how alot of lefties percieve it. But how do they reconcile the backwards atrocities that occur daily in our "free societies" in the name of intimidation and Allah?

I do not know how your "lefties" reconcile it but I will tell you how I do: the exact same way as I reconcile all violent crime. Some people are evil and some people do evil. I do not give a damn about blaming OTHER people who share similar ancestry or culture.

If we are to win, it will be by having confidence in our culture and traditions - not by knuckling under to each and every demand of militant muslims - just for the sake of "sensitivity"

We need to draw a line.

You are painting TOO MANY people with the same brush. Do you even know anybody who is Islamic???

People like you are part of the problem. Grow up and stop spreading hatred!!

aahhhh yes - i can hear the multiculti muzzak starting to play....ahhhhhhh ...goingggggggg baaaaack to sleeeeeeeeeeep...........eeeeeeverything ....willlll.beeeeee...........ok..............ignore.....the newsssssss....about daillllllyyyyyyyy.....suicide...........attaaaaaaackssss...............we're alllllllll......the sammmmmmeeee............everything.......is goinggggg.....to....be....okaaaaaaayyyyy...

[sharkman]

You are painting TOO MANY people with the same brush. Do you even know anybody who is Islamic???

People like you are part of the problem. Grow up and stop spreading hatred!!

The main part of the problem is there are Muslims killing people because the Koran tells them to do it, their leaders tell them to do it, Mohammad tell them to do it, and people like you shrug your shoulders and say,"What problem?"

If Christians had riots over things they find offensive, like 'art' that includes elephant dung and the Virgin Mary, liberals would be screaming about the wrongness of it and rightly so. (By the way, I'd like to see some of these 'artists' try something like that with pictures of Mohammad. They won't dare.) Said liberals can find nothing wrong with Muslims rioting over offensive cartoons or threatening the Pope's life over benign comments. That you can not see the double standard is a big part of the problem.

[Charles Anthony]

...goingggggggg baaaaack to sleeeeeeeeeeep...........

Please do so and keep your racism to yourself.

because the Koran tells them to do it,

Keep your bigotry to yourself too.

[JerrySeinfeld]

...goingggggggg baaaaack to sleeeeeeeeeeep...........

Please do so and keep your racism to yourself.

i think it's obtuse and lazy to use the word racism every time someone makes an obvious point about other cultures or religions.

keep your laziness to yourself

[Charles Anthony]

i think it's obtuse and lazy to use the word racism every time someone makes an obvious point about other cultures or religions.

You were not making "an obvious point about other cultures or religions" in the very least. You are being a disgusting racist by generalizing.

[JerrySeinfeld]

i think it's obtuse and lazy to use the word racism every time someone makes an obvious point about other cultures or religions.

You were not making "an obvious point about other cultures or religions" in the very least. You are being a disgusting racist by generalizing.

Ya - ok whatever.

If you wake up one morning and find your trash has been upended, you say "gosh - a raccoon went through my trash. oh well, one pesky raccoon."

But if you wake up EVERY day and find that a racoon has gone through your trash, eventually you make the comment that raccoons like to go through and you'd better do something to protect your trash from raccoons.

Now in your world, you'd say that not all raccoons go through all people's trash. Fair enough, but you still need to lock down your garbage to stop the ones who do.

[sharkman]

i think it's obtuse and lazy to use the word racism every time someone makes an obvious point about other cultures or religions.

You were not making "an obvious point about other cultures or religions" in the very least. You are being a disgusting racist by generalizing.

When people can no longer defend their positions, that's when the racism and bigotry cards get played. I am neither, and I resent your name calling. Surely you can do better than this.

[sharkman]

Here Charles, is the Koran telling muslims to carry out Holy War:

"Muhammad said, 'You are commanded to carry out jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.'" (Qur'ran 47:4)

Maybe you should read more before you play the knee jerk racist card. This, if nothing else is evidence that should be weighed.

[GostHacked]

i think it's obtuse and lazy to use the word racism every time someone makes an obvious point about other cultures or religions.

You were not making "an obvious point about other cultures or religions" in the very least. You are being a disgusting racist by generalizing.

Ya - ok whatever.

If you wake up one morning and find your trash has been upended, you say "gosh - a raccoon went through my trash. oh well, one pesky raccoon."

But if you wake up EVERY day and find that a racoon has gone through your trash, eventually you make the comment that raccoons like to go through and you'd better do something to protect your trash from raccoons.

Now in your world, you'd say that not all raccoons go through all people's trash. Fair enough, but you still need to lock down your garbage to stop the ones who do.

This also gets into your skull that you soon learn not to trust any racoon. I am going to equate Honour killings with just that. Not enough trust of faith in your family members. And also geneeral ignorance of what is right and what is wrong.

Now this asshole who killed those Amish girls to me just really pisses me off. I respect the Amish for the simple lifestyle they lead. Now someone has screwed that up forever for them. That guy is nothing more than a coward and should be dealt with the same way in which he handled those girls.

Jerry S.

It is NOT acceptable for religious groups to intimidate governments, organizations, media or private enterprise into editing any and everything they find offensive.

But when your government is founded or based on religion that poses a problem. Even for the moderninity of western society. The US is still One Nation Under God. See a problem there? Little hypocritical to talk about Muslim religion/government when everything the west has is really the same just a different 'god. Even the currencey for the US is 'In God We Trust' (or is it money?)

You may not take Jerry Fallwell or Pat Robertson seriously, but some politicians do. They themselves cannot differentiate between government and religion. And that can have a large impact on how they address issues that govern our lives.

I think reporting of killings need to reflect the nature of it. We can suspect that 'Islamofactists' (ya thanks O'Rielly) killed for the religion, but it might have been something different and a slant was put on it to show that we are civilized and they are crazy religious fanatical killers. Hell even I can put that kind of a twist on it. But that is the essence of the posters post. To show the bias in the news media when it covers this kind of thing. This guy may have been a nutcase fanatical Christian, but IF anything like that was present it was not reported.

[Charles Anthony]

Here Charles, is the Koran telling muslims to carry out Holy War:

----SNIP OUT BIGOTTED PROPAGANDA-----

Maybe you should read more before you play the knee jerk racist card.

Maybe I should. Where did you get that "quotation" from the Koran????!?!?!????? Please provide a link.

It looks like the common misrepresentation. Period.

From three different translations, the passage reads:

047.004

YUSUFALI: Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.

PICKTHAL: Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.

SHAKIR: So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/047.qmt.html

Maybe your quotation is a correct translation and my quotation is fudged translation. The difference indicates that not all Muslims should be painted with the same brush.

This, if nothing else is evidence that should be weighed.

No.

It is evidence that YOU read propaganda that you want to read to support YOUR racist misrepresntation of Islam.

I am curious, have Ma and Pa Kettle never encountered real live Muslims in their lives either???

[M.Dancer]

So let's be upfront here: If a society has a practise of systematically abusing, gang raping, opressing and even murdering women. Or perhaps blaming women for being raped...is this something that should be condoned in your eyes?

Was there a poster here (who was it) who was blaming Arar for his fate....for being Syrian born...Oh the irony......and another who was musing why lawyers couldn't look into a woman's sexual history in rapoe cases?

You see jerry....the things you say about the abuse of woman being wrong are true, but hardly confined to muslims.....We see enough of that in our own backyards.......gang rapes?

Murdering women? Try todays papers.......

[M.Dancer]

i think it's obtuse and lazy to use the word racism every time someone makes an obvious point about other cultures or religions.

You were not making "an obvious point about other cultures or religions" in the very least. You are being a disgusting racist by generalizing.

Here Here

[sharkman]

Maybe I should. Where did you get that "quotation" from the Koran????!?!?!????? Please provide a link.

It looks like the common misrepresentation. Period.

From three different translations, the passage reads:

047.004

YUSUFALI: Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.

PICKTHAL: Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.

SHAKIR: So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/047.qmt.html

Maybe your quotation is a correct translation and my quotation is fudged translation. The difference indicates that not all Muslims should be painted with the same brush.

This, if nothing else is evidence that should be weighed.

No.

It is evidence that YOU read propaganda that you want to read to support YOUR

REMOVAL OF BIGOTED HATE SPEECH...

Okay, Charles, I have done some my research and have found, as far as I can find, my quote is wrong, and I will not use that source again, because it is not trustworthy.

Here instead, is a link to a site that has reams and reams of Qur'an quotes, the body of which is far more unsettling than the few I have posted previously.

Here's a couple for you to scoff at:

Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an:9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”

Qur’an:8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”

Qur’an:8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”

Ishaq:324 “He said, ‘Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.’”

The truth shall set you free.

[Charles Anthony]

The truth shall set you free.

-- from a domain name entitled ProphetOfDoom.net ????

I am starting to get even more curious: do Ma and Pa Kettle even have internet service? or a computer?