Non Muslim Kills 3 Girls

[sharkman]

You still won't criticize Muslim terrorists. Okay, fine. I know I can't get you to see that with all the calls to Jihad in the Koran, Islam is a violent religion. So I thought I'd at least see if you would criticize Muslim terrorists. To be honest, I didn't think you would.

Can't you read English? This is not about criticizing terrorists. It is about you spreading hatred of an entire religion while you are pretending to 'criticize terrorists'. I and others have already demonstrated why your claims that the Islam is 'violent religion' are completely bogus yet you continue to insists that those claims are true. Then you try to turn around and acuse the people that point out your hypocrasy and contradictions as 'supporters of terrorism'. Why don't you just admit that you hate Mulsims and that you wish to exterminate all Mulsims.

You are a one trick pony, pal. You hatred of me shows that you can't understand basic concepts. It is possible to hold the opinion that Islam is a violent religion and not hate Muslims. If I am wrong, I am wrong. The evidence I have shown you in the Koran you have swatted aside without looking at all but a few verses, making the generalizations that they must ALL be taken out of context.

Further I never accused you anywhre of supporting terrorists. You make giant leaps of logic where it suits you, but can't look at the Koran with anything but adoration. You are a zealot. Any criticism of Islam is forbidden with you. Perhaps you should find some Muslim forums, they will appreciate your point of view.

[Charles Anthony]

Perhaps you should find some Muslim forums, they will appreciate your point of view.

Perhaps YOU should try to find some Muslim forums. I dare you to learn!

Is your mind open enough?

[M.Dancer]

Rant:

I disagree. I am a no man for my pet causes. And I hope you can also be a no man for your pet causes......like bigotry and ignorance.

Do you have what it takes to just say no?

[M.Dancer]

of context.

Further I never accused you anywhre of supporting terrorists.

Yes I am saying more than that but I was trying to point out that I haven't heard 1 iota of criticism from some posters on Muslim extremists. Only defense.

I am an anti semantic

[sharkman]

Rant:

I disagree. I am a no man for my pet causes. And I hope you can also be a no man for your pet causes......like bigotry and ignorance.

Do you have what it takes to just say no?

Not only are you a yes man, you are a lap dog. A dogmatist who has just proved my earlier comments that you add nothing to the forum. Way to go, keep underachieving!

[sharkman]

Perhaps you should find some Muslim forums, they will appreciate your point of view.

Perhaps YOU should try to find some Muslim forums. I dare you to learn!

Is your mind open enough?

This from someone who believes in conspiracy theories. The guvermunt did it! I advise you to stay away from conspiracy sites and maybe just stay away from the computer altogether. After all, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

[Michael Hardner]

Comparing the relative violence of various holy books out of the cultural context of the two regions is such a waste of time.

[M.Dancer]

Not only are you a yes man, you are a lap dog. A dogmatist who has just proved my earlier comments that you add nothing to the forum. Way to go, keep underachieving!

Yeah whatever bro........try talk radio....the audia only format is suited to people with myopia.

[Michael Hardner]

This is an okay thread we have going, but too many insults usually result in a report to the mod.

Just a word in your ear, there...

[Higgly]

This is an okay thread we have going, but too many insults usually result in a report to the mod.

Just a word in your ear, there...

No offense but this thread contains pretty much the type of anti-Moslem bigot rant that seems to be standard at MLW. You read these threads and you would be hard pressed to think that there are hundreds of millions of Moslems world wide who are doctors, lawyers, surveyors, teachers, accountants, street sweepers, cooks, salespeople, what have you. Apparently they are all wild-eyed terrorists.

[M.Dancer]

This is an okay thread we have going, but too many insults usually result in a report to the mod.

Just a word in your ear, there...

No offense but this thread contains pretty much the type of anti-Moslem bigot rant that seems to be standard at MLW. You read these threads and you would be hard pressed to think that there are hundreds of millions of Moslems world wide who are doctors, lawyers, surveyors, teachers, accountants, street sweepers, cooks, salespeople, what have you. Apparently they are all wild-eyed terrorists.

One of the wild eyed terrorists helped deliver my daughter, who was born premature weighing 1lbs 15 ozs.....it's part of their master plan....delivering and doctoring blonde blued eyed catholic girls....

[sharkman]

This is an okay thread we have going, but too many insults usually result in a report to the mod.

Just a word in your ear, there...

No offense but this thread contains pretty much the type of anti-Moslem bigot rant that seems to be standard at MLW. You read these threads and you would be hard pressed to think that there are hundreds of millions of Moslems world wide who are doctors, lawyers, surveyors, teachers, accountants, street sweepers, cooks, salespeople, what have you. Apparently they are all wild-eyed terrorists.

Nothing like sweeping generalizations to justify your love of the word bigot. For suggesting that Islam might condone violence and using Koran scriptures that advocate killing infidels, I have been called a bigot, racist, and a hater of Muslims who wants to exterminate all of them. No one who has disagreed with me thus far has been able to restrain their prejudice against me.

Posters like the one above simply can't fathom someone who disagrees with Islam on the matter of killing infidels without hate. Add to that list of professions terrorists who believe they are doing Allah's work. It's a fact of life, in the news every day. Blaming the messenger helps to avoid confronting the problem.

[JerrySeinfeld]

A LEADING imam in the mosque where the July 7 bombers worshipped has hailed their terrorist attack on London as a “good” act in a secretly taped conversation with an undercover reporter.

Hamid Ali, spiritual leader of the mosque in West Yorkshire, said it had forced people to take notice when peaceful meetings and conferences had no impact.

He also praised the bombers as the “children” of Abdullah al-Faisal, a firebrand Muslim cleric, who was convicted of inciting murder and racial hatred in 2003.

Ali revealed that the leader of the London suicide bombers had attended sermons in Yorkshire by al-Faisal and tapes of al-Faisal’s teachings were still circulating within his mosque.

Al-Faisal, who has branded non-Muslims as “cockroaches” ripe for extermination, is serving a seven-year prison sentence but is eligible for early release next week.

Evidence of continuing extremism and terrorist sympathisers in the bombers’ community has been exposed by a six-week investigation by The Sunday Times. It contrasts with the public statements of condemnation by community leaders — including Ali — in the immediate aftermath of the July 7 attacks.

[Riverwind]

Blaming the messenger helps to avoid confronting the problem.

Actually, I would say that people like you are a big part of the problem. Islam is a religion practiced by billions. No matter what we do we will have to live with Muslims next door. The only way we are going be able to live in peace is to reach out to Muslims that also wish to live in peace. We cannot reach out to these people by lecturing them about how inferior their religion is. For that reason alone any discussion of Islam must start with the presumption that Islam is a religion of peace and that the Muslims that use it to justify violence are going against the tenets of their religion. Insisting that Islam is a inherently violent religion will simply alienate the moderate Muslims that we need to build a better relationship with. This kind of stuff is human relationship and psychology 101 and it is disturbing that you would rather wallow in hatred instead of looking for real solutions to the problem of terrorism.

[sharkman]

Blaming the messenger helps to avoid confronting the problem.

Actually, I would say that people like you are a big part of the problem. Islam is a religion practiced by billions. No matter what we do we will have to live with Muslims next door. The only way we are going be able to live in peace is to reach out to Muslims that also wish to live in peace. We cannot reach out to these people by lecturing them about how inferior their religion is. For that reason alone any discussion of Islam must start with the presumption that Islam is a religion of peace and that the Muslims that use it to justify violence are going against the tenets of their religion. Insisting that Islam is a inherently violent religion will simply alienate the moderate Muslims that we need to build a better relationship with. This kind of stuff is human relationship and psychology 101 and it is disturbing that you would rather wallow in hatred instead of looking for real solutions to the problem of terrorism.

No, people that blow stuff up in the name of Allah are the problem. I don't care how many practice it. The ones that blow up innocents for Allah are dangerous. I also don't care anymore what you think. Calling me a hater of Islam who wants to exterminate all Muslims shows how bigoted you are. Go fly a kite.

[Argus]

Posting one or two White crimes to refute that is ludicrous. There were four very violent crimes commited in Ottawa over the last ten days involving four deaths. All involved ethnics. This is not unusual. Most murders - other than famiily related - commited in Toronto are by non-Whites. Most street crime is by non-whites.

And most complaints about Muslims are about religiously inspired violence, not general crime. Although, in the case cited above, statistics appear to be showing that Muslim immigrants in some nordic countries are responsible for a vastly disproportionate amount of crime, especially sex crimes against women. By some statistics the majority of rapists are Muslims.

Well, then, considering there are billions of muslims....how about I pretend I'm a slack jawed yokel

Shouldn't be much of a stretch.

[Argus]

...goingggggggg baaaaack to sleeeeeeeeeeep...........

Please do so and keep your racism to yourself.

because the Koran tells them to do it,

Keep your bigotry to yourself too.

Can I possibly suggest you keep your rampant ignorance to yourself, as well?

[Argus]

Anyway, you have not changed my mind, only revealed to me that some will not criticize Islam at any cost, even when murderers are involved. Am I wrong? I invite you to criticize them now.

Your friggen strawmen are rediculous. You have stated that it is wrong to criticize Christianity because a few Christians kill abortion doctors yet you insist on criticizing Islam because some Muslims engage in terrorist attacks.

What you and the other defenders of Islam ignore - deliberately, I suspect - is the vast difference between the indpendant actions of a very, very few Christian wackos who are supported by almost no one, and the huge, organized efforts of enormous numberes of Muslims which is supported by tens of millions of other Muslims.

Muslims from across the world made their way to Afghanistan by the thousands - a tremendous effort for a poverty stricken people - in order to join Osama bin Laden at his terrorist training base. He had ten thousand men under him - and you want to equate him with two loonies in Oklahoma? You have no difficult criticising the Pope because of a remark during an academic speech but you ignore the numerous viciously hateful statements which incite and encourage violence coming from MAINSTREAM Islamic leaders, both clerical and political.

The culture which is no prevelant throughout the Muslim world is, by our standards, cruel, barbaric, backward, violently mysogenistic, murderously homophobic, intollerent of all differences, and religiously extreme - even by the standards of the Christian fundamentalists you despise.

But you and the other lefties have to jump to defend it, and attack anyone criticising it. Why do I doubt you'd be nodding and chuckling if someone was posting offensive, anti-Christian opinions which talked about how stupid and ignorant and backward Christian fundamentalists are?

[Argus]

Comparing the relative violence of various holy books out of the cultural context of the two regions is such a waste of time.

The difference is that the violence of the Muslim holy book seems to inspire an awful lot more real life violence than the violence in any other holy book.

[Argus]

Blaming the messenger helps to avoid confronting the problem.

No matter what we do we will have to live with Muslims next door. The only way we are going be able to live in peace is to reach out to Muslims that also wish to live in peace. We cannot reach out to these people by lecturing them about how inferior their religion is. For that reason alone any discussion of Islam must start with the presumption that Islam is a religion of peace and that the Muslims that use it to justify violence are going against the tenets of their religion.

Even when their political and religious leaders preach hate and violence?

Insisting that Islam is a inherently violent religion will simply alienate the moderate Muslims that we need to build a better relationship with.

There are such people? Not many, I'd say.

True or false: If we instituted real democracy overnight in all Muslim states, and let the people vote for who should lead them and what kind of government they should have, Virtually ALL of them, and certainly all the ones in the middle east, would be led by clerics, and would become Muslim states with Sharia law.

Moderates, eh? Just what IS a Muslim moderate and how many of them are there?

[Riverwind]

True or false: If we instituted real democracy overnight in all Muslim states, and let the people vote for who should lead them and what kind of government they should have, Virtually ALL of them, and certainly all the ones in the middle east, would be led by clerics, and would become Muslim states with Sharia law.

Probably true. Tell me something Argus: what purpose does hating Islam accomplish? I will acknowledge that reaching out to Muslim moderates is likely a thankless task for at least the next generation, however, it is an approach that will deliver results in the long run. OTH, vilifying Islam and the people that practice it is guaranteed to ensure the current conflict never ends. Seems to me this is one situation where it is in our best interest to play the naive Pollyanna type even if our cynical selves suspect we are wasting our time.

[sharkman]

True or false: If we instituted real democracy overnight in all Muslim states, and let the people vote for who should lead them and what kind of government they should have, Virtually ALL of them, and certainly all the ones in the middle east, would be led by clerics, and would become Muslim states with Sharia law.

Probably true. Tell me something Argus: what purpose does hating Islam accomplish? I will acknowledge that reaching out to Muslim moderates is likely a thankless task for at least the next generation, however, it is an approach that will deliver results in the long run. OTH, vilifying Islam and the people that practice it is guaranteed to ensure the current conflict never ends. Seems to me this is one situation where it is in our best interest to play the naive Pollyanna type even if our cynical selves suspect we are wasting our time.

There you are you pesky fella! So anyway, when flying kites many people screw up right off the get go. Pay attention to the twine you get, Riverwind. I''ve seen many kites just flutter away as a hapless kite enthusiest hangs his head with half a roll of cheap twine in his hand. Sometimes they even take to throwing the twine down and stomping on it. I wouldn't want that to happen to you. Get good quality twine, and learn how to tie some effective knots. You want no weak links, my friend.

Next time we will go into the dangers of power lines. Perhaps you should read ahead.

[Argus]

True or false: If we instituted real democracy overnight in all Muslim states, and let the people vote for who should lead them and what kind of government they should have, Virtually ALL of them, and certainly all the ones in the middle east, would be led by clerics, and would become Muslim states with Sharia law.

Probably true. Tell me something Argus: what purpose does hating Islam accomplish?

Well, for one thing, recognize that it is that culture behind Muslims which I so dislike. Find me a sect of Muslims who are peace loving and respectful towards others and I will embrace it as much as I do any other religious group (mind you, that's for someone who doesn't particularly trust religions). Now then, the problem I have is not so much in what they are, but where they are. In particular, the influence they have on our society as their numbers grow here and throughout the West. There are some European nations which seem destined, through demographics, to become majority Muslim in a few short decades. It doesn't seem likely that will happen here soon, but we are still bringing in Muslims in their tens of thousands each year, and I would suggest this is not a good idea so long as the culture of Muslims is the way it is. I don't like the influence and affect they will have as their numbers grow.

I am more than willing to respect Muslim moderates, but there seem precious few of them around. The statements coming out of Muslim clerics, here and elsewhere, from Muslim organizations, here and elsewhere, are hardly indicative of tolerance and a love of peace and forgiveness. And I'm sorry, but I'm just not a "turn the other cheek" kind of guy. You think we should overlook their intollerance and wait a generation or more for them to change. I think they will not change without pressure from outside. There has to be pressure from somewhere, and there's precious little coming from within the Muslim world. Partly, that's because any criticisim of Islam, or more accurately, the way it is being interpreted and preached and lived today, is forbidden. Look at those Danish cartoons. They were, at worst, political commentary. The one which showed the bomb in Muhammed's turban was straight out political critisism of the kind we have long taken for granted here, but shocked Muslim sensibilities. To my mind, they need shocking, they need things like the contradiction between their self-image of a peaceful people, and the image others have of them, rubbed in their faces. Because I don't think they will change otherwise. At the very least, Muslims in Canada need to be shown that contradiction, and need to be challenged in their backward and intollerent attitudes and beliefs. Screaming at anyone who mocks them and calling them bigots and racists, trying to shut down criticism, like that of the Danish cartoons, is not conducive to convincing them to change.

So when I see people posting about how Muslims are just like anyone else, are people of peace, except for a "fringe" group, then yes, I feel the need to point out that this isn't necessarily true.

[Riverwind]

And I'm sorry, but I'm just not a "turn the other cheek" kind of guy. You think we should overlook their intolerance and wait a generation or more for them to change. I think they will not change without pressure from outside. There has to be pressure from somewhere, and there's precious little coming from within the Muslim world.

I can understand where you coming from but my concern is we don't have a lot of other practical options available. This is not a situation like WW2 where an authoritarian gov't took over otherwise civilized societies in Germany and Japan. In those situations we could knock out the military gov't and let the German and Japanese societies fix themselves with a minimal amount of prodding on our part. With Muslim societies there is a huge culture gap that is not going to be closed any time soon. The messes in Iraq and Afghanistan are a case in point. That is why I have come to the conclusion that avoiding confrontation and a lot of patience is the only way forward. And yes, we are talking about waiting generations for them to change. And that can be frustrating. I really want to crack some heads when I hear about Islamic religious bigots calling for the resignation of the Pope over what was unintentional insult. Especially after the Pope has been practically prostrating himself with his apologies. But I know that 'cracking some heads' would make the problem even worse in the long run.

[sharkman]

I can understand where you coming from but my concern is we don't have a lot of other practical options available. This is not a situation like WW2 where an authoritarian gov't took over otherwise civilized societies in Germany and Japan. In those situations we could knock out the military gov't and let the German and Japanese societies fix themselves with a minimal amount of prodding on our part. With Muslim societies there is a huge culture gap that is not going to be closed any time soon.

The messes in Iraq and Afghanistan are a case in point. That is why I have come to the conclusion that avoiding confrontation and a lot of patience is the only way forward. And yes, we are talking about waiting generations for them to change. And that can be frustrating. I really want to crack some heads when I hear about Islamic religious bigots calling for the resignation of the Pope over what was unintentional insult. Especially after the Pope has been practically prostrating himself with his apologies. But I know that 'cracking some heads' would make the problem even worse in the long run.

I seriously can't believe you said you want to crack some heads.

It appears to me that the Muslim countries are waiting for US to change, and they are getting impatient. Engineering change in European countries by overwhelming the population seems to be the technique to bring about the change they want. And this could be the blueprint for all countries, one at a time, as we wait for them to settle down.

Many of these Islamic countries are getting more dogmatic, not less. And the hatred of the Jews and the Great Satan (the West) seems to be on the rise as well. Whenever Israel has turned the other cheek, the outcome has been discouraging.