Fat Cat Canadians

[margrace]

Canadians are a bunch of fat cat hypocites. Makeing money is our only goal. Having the biggest car and the biggest house are our main priorities.

In the Rocky Mountains, for instance, the glaciers are melting and the amount of snow in the winter is dropping. These glaciers supply the water to your rivers, do you care, not really. In the spring the rivers provide the water that gives you back your rain, do you care? It takes something like 8 litres of water to produce I liter of oil from the tar sands. When you run out of water what will you live on? A big house, a big vehicle will not give you something to eat or drink.

In Ontario they are selling water off in expensive little bottles and stupid people are buying these. Why because it is cool. They do not seem to realize they are paying more for that water than they are for gas.

When all our water is controlled by a few rich supper companies and we have to pay that price for it will we care. I wonder.

In the US companies are already trying to figure out a way to divert more Canadian water for their golf courses and fancy lawns in California. Do we care, evidently not.

I have always made my own clothes. Now it has become nearly impossible to buy decent material to do this. Instead they are selling clothing in places such as Walmart that fall apart after one or two washings and then we throught them out.

Yes we are a bunch of idiot fat cats.

[Charles Anthony]

I have always made my own clothes. Now it has become nearly impossible to buy decent material to do this. Instead they are selling clothing in places such as Walmart that fall apart after one or two washings and then we throught them out.

Has it always been affordable for you AND everybody you know to make their own clothes?

I tried to make clothes once. They fell apart very quickly. The only ones that did not fall apart were the ones that I DID NOT wear.

[watching&waiting]

I do not know just how you think that the water will be controlled, but where I live the water table is very high and if the galiciers melt then it would be even higher. I drink water that comes from my well at the 100ft deep mark, and it is better then most bottled water on sale. It is just the way things work. Since I have a lawn that is 4 acres and during hot summer times I water it from a pond on my property and it never seems to fall by much even in dry times, I never fear water being in short supply. if Galciers melt the water table will rise and if those whpo are wise enough drill wells into the bedrock they will have the best filtering you cna get and the cleanest water. You only need to be careful not to drill thru the bedrock as water there while drinakable will have a high sulphur content. I would imagine this would be the same for most areas and with the exceptions of the Canadian sheild, there would be little to stop people from having wells.

As far as quality cloth goes, there still are manufacturer's around Canada making top quality cloth, but you will not find these in the dicount depeartment stores. You get what you pay for, and yes now with machines doing the work, they can lower the thread counts in clothes to values that will not survive a harsh wash cycle. But you must remember that is the way they can afford to procuce these at the lowest prices. This has also been the reason for Jobs going away as well. Production cost are much lower in places like India and China.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Try hemp cloth! Its a little stiff but wears damned well. Figure a way to soften it up some and you will make a bundle of cash. This stuff is like canvass only rougher its incredibly durable.

[geoffrey]

Don't shop at Walmart and clothes will last longer...

Glaciers melt anyways, what do you think provides water for the entire Western half of the country? Melting faster, maybe, but some are expanding too. Are we to blame for that as well?

You'll always have water from your tap, drink that, don't buy bottled water and you've made a first step. What does it matter if others decide to drink bottled water?

[Leader Circle]

Hey Chicken Little, "the sky is falling, the sky is falling".

This glacier melt would happen even if we weren't living here. Climates change, we can't stop it, but in the meantime if people make money off of oil, God forbid. Yeah it polutes to extract oil from the ground, but your VW diesel polutes like crazy too.(and it requires us to extract oil from the ground!) Toronto has a haze hanging over it because you all drive your cars to work. Being the most environmentally friendly people that you are, why not take public transit? The reason they don't do their part in the big TO is the good old reasoning "NIMBY". NOT IN MY BACKYARD" Where is all of the garbage going that you generate in Toronto?

So scream and holler about the bad things that oil does, but we are not alone in the oil craze, the whole world is doing it.

So Margrace, you may be right, we are all fat cats.

Apparently, the ideal way is to be poor, make your own clothes, use solar power, and go back to the stone age, but you'll be doing it all by yourself, with a few Amish folks!

Good luck! Tell me how happy you are 10 years from now.

Just had a thought mar, what are you doing with a computer? Shouldn't you be out there roughing it? Do you drive?

[August1991]

In Ontario they are selling water off in expensive little bottles and stupid people are buying these.

....

Yes we are a bunch of idiot fat cats.

By calling other people "stupid" and "idiot fat cats" you are engaging in the very thing you deplore: status. Your accusations are designed to make yourself feel superior.

Your rant has nothing to do with water or the environment and everything to do with you and your perception of your own station in life.

[geoffrey]

Apparently, the ideal way is to be poor, make your own clothes, use solar power, and go back to the stone age, but you'll be doing it all by yourself, with a few Amish folks!

It seems by today's news, even the Amish may have problems.

[Borg]

Canadians are a bunch of fat cat hypocites. Makeing money is our only goal. Having the biggest car and the biggest house are our main priorities.

In the Rocky Mountains, for instance, the glaciers are melting and the amount of snow in the winter is dropping. These glaciers supply the water to your rivers, do you care, not really. In the spring the rivers provide the water that gives you back your rain, do you care? It takes something like 8 litres of water to produce I liter of oil from the tar sands. When you run out of water what will you live on? A big house, a big vehicle will not give you something to eat or drink.

In Ontario they are selling water off in expensive little bottles and stupid people are buying these. Why because it is cool. They do not seem to realize they are paying more for that water than they are for gas.

When all our water is controlled by a few rich supper companies and we have to pay that price for it will we care. I wonder.

In the US companies are already trying to figure out a way to divert more Canadian water for their golf courses and fancy lawns in California. Do we care, evidently not.

I have always made my own clothes. Now it has become nearly impossible to buy decent material to do this. Instead they are selling clothing in places such as Walmart that fall apart after one or two washings and then we throught them out.

Yes we are a bunch of idiot fat cats.

Ho hum - thankfully not everyone is as stupid as you sound.

Or are you finished ranting?

Borg

[margrace]

Canadians are a bunch of fat cat hypocites. Makeing money is our only goal. Having the biggest car and the biggest house are our main priorities.

In the Rocky Mountains, for instance, the glaciers are melting and the amount of snow in the winter is dropping. These glaciers supply the water to your rivers, do you care, not really. In the spring the rivers provide the water that gives you back your rain, do you care? It takes something like 8 litres of water to produce I liter of oil from the tar sands. When you run out of water what will you live on? A big house, a big vehicle will not give you something to eat or drink.

In Ontario they are selling water off in expensive little bottles and stupid people are buying these. Why because it is cool. They do not seem to realize they are paying more for that water than they are for gas.

When all our water is controlled by a few rich supper companies and we have to pay that price for it will we care. I wonder.

In the US companies are already trying to figure out a way to divert more Canadian water for their golf courses and fancy lawns in California. Do we care, evidently not.

I have always made my own clothes. Now it has become nearly impossible to buy decent material to do this. Instead they are selling clothing in places such as Walmart that fall apart after one or two washings and then we throught them out.

Yes we are a bunch of idiot fat cats.

Ho hum - thankfully not everyone is as stupid as you sound.

Or are you finished ranting?

Borg

Judging by the replys on here I can only say yep we are killing our environment and we really don't give a damn.

[Remiel]

Borg, you are one of the last people on this board that should be insulting anyone.

I don't totally agree with August, but I see where he is coming from. That being said, I think you do have a some genuine concerns, but perhaps suffer from sub-optimal communication of those concerns, like I usually do (and know it). What I find really interesting, is how Geoffrey manages to point out a possibility for what could happen if the modern economy goes deep south. Wouldn't be the end of the world... just a lot blander, less luxurious...

[geoffrey]

Borg, you are one of the last people on this board that should be insulting anyone.

I don't totally agree with August, but I see where he is coming from. That being said, I think you do have a some genuine concerns, but perhaps suffer from sub-optimal communication of those concerns, like I usually do (and know it). What I find really interesting, is how Geoffrey manages to point out a possibility for what could happen if the modern economy goes deep south. Wouldn't be the end of the world... just a lot blander, less luxurious...

It's that pollution, industry and technology that gives margrace the forum to express her views. If we went back to non-polluting Amish type primative days, we also likely wouldn't have support for the academic project that started this forum.

Politics itself wouldn't be much of an issue, surviving would be though.

[August1991]

Judging by the replys on here I can only say yep we are killing our environment and we really don't give a damn.

Does this knowledge that you are enlightened and everyone else is ignorant really make you feel superior? Deriving status from self-delusion is rarely satisfactory in the long run.

Margrace, if you truly cared about the environment, and dropped this idea that people are stupid, then you might start to think about why we have environmental problems. I can assure you that they are not due to stupid greedy people.

[margrace]

Yes I was deliberatly insulting in my premis but if one was not guilty one would not have been so angry. That said the other idea may be that I have lived 71 years on this beautiful planet and I too thought all the technology was wonderful but as I grow older I realize that there may be no future for our grandchildren.

Cars and toys in the future will never replace water. We cannot live without it. When I was born my parents had to go to the neighbours to get their drinking water and that had sulpher in it but it was drinkable, the odor was awful thought. There were several wells on the property, one produced very little water and one was salt.

The animals had to go to the creek over the hill for water no matter what the weather was like. My parents built a cistern in the cellar and that provided us with working water, not drinking water. I was grown up and married before my parents had the luxury of the taps you so easily toss about.

The farm I went too also had no water in the house, not even a cistern but it did have a good well near the barn. All water for every operation had to be carried to the house. They too finally got water but It had to be husbanded carefully.

Ater several moves in my life finally into the near north we finally have wonderful water. The well is 425 ft. deep and if we had to pay for it it would have cost us $10,000 to drill. I value my water very much. Especially after having had our hydro out this last week for 3 and one half days, no way to get water. Thankfully we can store enough water for just such a situation.

Do any of you have any idea of what I am talking about, do you remember the dirty thirtys, surely some of you had parents who lost everything on the prairies at that time.

In reference to some other remarks, I do not shop at Walmart, I know how poor their stuff is. I no longer sew my own clothes and I do buy Canadian whenever possible. My husband and I also live on a fixed income and think we are very rich.

We have friends who are Amish and they do not seem to miss all the do das and gadgets. They drive their horses and grown beautiful gardens.

[sharkman]

Yes I was deliberatly insulting in my premis but if one was not guilty one would not have been so angry. That said the other idea may be that I have lived 71 years on this beautiful planet and I too thought all the technology was wonderful but as I grow older I realize that there may be no future for our grandchildren.

It sounded like you were angy and I'm not sure why you decided to be insulting, but one can catch more flies with honey I'm told.

As for technology, it's going to save our bacon. Battery powered cars, or some other technology will solve the dilema of transportation faster than mass transit, which is only practical for a minority of commuters. Actually building up the highway system would shorten commute times, thus lowering polution, but don't tell that to an NDPer unless you want to see a hissy fit.

[margrace]

Yes I was deliberatly insulting in my premis but if one was not guilty one would not have been so angry. That said the other idea may be that I have lived 71 years on this beautiful planet and I too thought all the technology was wonderful but as I grow older I realize that there may be no future for our grandchildren.

It sounded like you were angy and I'm not sure why you decided to be insulting, but one can catch more flies with honey I'm told.

As for technology, it's going to save our bacon. Battery powered cars, or some other technology will solve the dilema of transportation faster than mass transit, which is only practical for a minority of commuters. Actually building up the highway system would shorten commute times, thus lowering polution, but don't tell that to an NDPer unless you want to see a hissy fit.

Paving good farmland for the people who refuse to use rapid transit does not make much sense to me.

[sharkman]

Yes I was deliberatly insulting in my premis but if one was not guilty one would not have been so angry. That said the other idea may be that I have lived 71 years on this beautiful planet and I too thought all the technology was wonderful but as I grow older I realize that there may be no future for our grandchildren.

It sounded like you were angy and I'm not sure why you decided to be insulting, but one can catch more flies with honey I'm told.

As for technology, it's going to save our bacon. Battery powered cars, or some other technology will solve the dilema of transportation faster than mass transit, which is only practical for a minority of commuters. Actually building up the highway system would shorten commute times, thus lowering polution, but don't tell that to an NDPer unless you want to see a hissy fit.

Paving good farmland for the people who refuse to use rapid transit does not make much sense to me.

Driving 20 minutes to work when public transit takes 1 1/2 hours does not make much sense to me. Rapid transit indeed.

Widening existing highways does not involve the use of farmland, at least in the lower mainland of B.C. Again, shortening the commute times causes less fuel to be used in the commute. This would be most noticable for big trucks that spew diesel fumes. And many people have no choice as to using transit.

[MSH]

Canadians are a bunch of fat cat hypocites. Makeing money is our only goal. Having the biggest car and the biggest house are our main priorities.

Geeez, what triggered this big hate-on for your fellow Canadians? Not all Canadians are fat cats, nor all that hypocritical. Indeed, the vast majority of Canadians live quiet, sensible, non-hypocritical lives.

I live in the "land of the lumbering Lincoln Navigators" (AKA Calgary) and have a decent enough professional career and yet live in a modest home and drive a Chrysler Neon. When weather permits I prefer to walk if the destination is 15 minutes or less by foot. I compost and recycle and put out half as many garbage bags as my neighbours. I am not alone in this city either--witness the last election where the Green Party had amongst the stongest support out of almost every other area of the country.

Have any other baseless, offensive generalisations to share with us? Do you think "Jews are cheap" or "Natives are lazy" too?

In the Rocky Mountains, for instance, the glaciers are melting and the amount of snow in the winter is dropping. These glaciers supply the water to your rivers, do you care, not really. In the spring the rivers provide the water that gives you back your rain, do you care? It takes something like 8 litres of water to produce I liter of oil from the tar sands. When you run out of water what will you live on? A big house, a big vehicle will not give you something to eat or drink.

Well, it takes water to live, period. Out of curiosity you should look into how many litres of water it takes to, say, produce a tonne of grain, and compare that to your tarsands statistic. Also, keep in mind that Canada and other 1st world nations consume far less water in agricultural operations per unit of produced goods because of mechanisation--without petroleum-powered tractors and other machinery the world wouldn't be able to feed itself--hence petroleum indirectly helps feed the world. Because we DO have tractors (and petroleum to fuel them) not only can the world feed itself, there is actually a GLUT of food production globally. We have famines almost chiefly due to political corruption and artificial barriers to trade and distribution.

Can we do anything about warmer weather and disappearing glaciers? Personally, I think it is too late...about the best personal contribution you could make to minimise the environmental impact you have on this earth would be to die. Feel free to do so if you wish...that is not on my list of things to do--not voluntarily nor in the immediate future at least. I intent to live as sustainably and efficiently as possible within a modern and relativley comfortable suburban lifestyle.

In Ontario they are selling water off in expensive little bottles and stupid people are buying these. Why because it is cool. They do not seem to realize they are paying more for that water than they are for gas.

When all our water is controlled by a few rich supper companies and we have to pay that price for it will we care. I wonder.

Well, a fool and his money are soon parted I suppose. I purchase drinking water on a larger scale (19 litre bottles for the cooler). I do this not because it is "cool", but becasue I do not like the taste of the chlorine, fluoride and mineral solution the city calls "water" and puts through my taps. To say the least, I think this chemical soup is not the most healthy water for consumption. I do not by "expensive little bottles" becasue they are, well, expensive, bulkier to store and are more wasteful packaging--and I hate waiting in line at the bottle depot so the less bottles I empty the less often I have to go to the depot.

As it stands though, water is quite plentiful and will remain so for the next several human lifetimes. As is the case with food, the issue is with the potability and distribution of that water. The ability to make potable water out of undrinkable stuff doesn't require the resources of "rich supper companies" (whatever those are...bigger than "breakfast companies" I'd guess). The biggest challenge we face is making sure everyone has access to enough potable water to live healthy lives.

In the US companies are already trying to figure out a way to divert more Canadian water for their golf courses and fancy lawns in California. Do we care, evidently not.

So, we should hoarde our water then? Forget about "fancy lawns in California". What about if our friends to the south are suffering a drought? What about developing nations in South America or elsewhere? Canada has more water than we could ever hope to use, and some countries are seriously short of water (distribution problem...remember?). We have enough to address this and still water a few fancy Californian lawns to boot. All that matters to me is that THEY foot the bill to keep their lawn green, and that we make sure to keep OUR OWN supply sufficiently large and safe for consumption. Water is like any other resource and should be FAIRLY traded and shared with our global partners. That said, agriculture hasn't historically been a haven for FAIR, OPEN and FREE global trade, so we should approach international water agreements with extreme caution.

I have always made my own clothes. Now it has become nearly impossible to buy decent material to do this. Instead they are selling clothing in places such as Walmart that fall apart after one or two washings and then we throught them out.

Well, when you go to a cheap junky store to buy clothes then what do you expect? Anyways, Walmart isn't THAT cheap and junky--the clothes I've bought there tend to last a couple years. Perhaps that is because I use a washing machine and liquid soap. Perhaps you use a big bar of lye soap, a tin washtub and an old washboard then wring them out in an old crank wringer.

It is great that you make your own clothes, but that sort of skill is pretty rare nowadays, and most people choose to spend their time at other pursuits. We have factories that do a better job, more efficiently I might add, than pretty much everyone could to themselves anyways. Even rarer is the person who doesn't need to buy patterns. I had to go to the fabric store when I was reupholstering seats and saw the price of some of those patterns. Gadzooks! what is evident is that people don't sew to save money anymore--they do it for the enjoyment and extra creativity it affords in the ability to alter, chose fabrics and so on.

Yes we are a bunch of idiot fat cats.

And your self-loathing rant is soooo effective in improving our world isn't it? I find it interesting that you complain about hypocrites and conspicuous consumption brough about by modern conveniences on an INTERNET FORUM. What, do you have a hand-crank-powered computer? Do you send and receive internet packets via carrier pidgeon? You probably used a good amount of fossil fuel and the water required to process it just to power cour computer long enough to rant on about this crap!

I find it a rare thing when people actually WALK THE TALK instead of just going on b!tchfests. If even half of those "concerned about the environment" did that the world would be a MUCH better place.

[BubberMiley]

Actually building up the highway system would shorten commute times, thus lowering polution, but don't tell that to an NDPer unless you want to see a hissy fit.

Don't tell the NDP government in Manitoba, which is dumping an extra $300 million above the regular budget into highways this year.

[jdobbin]

Don't tell the NDP government in Manitoba, which is dumping an extra $300 million above the regular budget into highways this year.

It seems they were acting on polls that said the NDP government could lose if it it didn't put some money into roads.

[BubberMiley]

Driving 20 minutes to work when public transit takes 1 1/2 hours does not make much sense to me. Rapid transit indeed.

Ever take a subway or an L train through an actual urban area? They're way faster than cars, and you wind up with a livable urban environment rather than a bunch of surface parking lots and big boxes.

[geoffrey]

Yes I was deliberatly insulting in my premis but if one was not guilty one would not have been so angry. That said the other idea may be that I have lived 71 years on this beautiful planet and I too thought all the technology was wonderful but as I grow older I realize that there may be no future for our grandchildren.

It sounded like you were angy and I'm not sure why you decided to be insulting, but one can catch more flies with honey I'm told.

As for technology, it's going to save our bacon. Battery powered cars, or some other technology will solve the dilema of transportation faster than mass transit, which is only practical for a minority of commuters. Actually building up the highway system would shorten commute times, thus lowering polution, but don't tell that to an NDPer unless you want to see a hissy fit.

I, the ever vigilant anti-socialist, tend to agree. Building more roads only encourages more people to drive, it hasn't solved problems anywhere... Los Angles or New York are good examples, terrible traffic yet massive road networks. Everytime you build more capacity, more people drive as it becomes easier... for a little while. You'll never completely catch up with capacity though, until everyone is driving, and that's not the desired result.

[gc1765]

Driving 20 minutes to work when public transit takes 1 1/2 hours does not make much sense to me. Rapid transit indeed.

Widening existing highways does not involve the use of farmland, at least in the lower mainland of B.C. Again, shortening the commute times causes less fuel to be used in the commute. This would be most noticable for big trucks that spew diesel fumes. And many people have no choice as to using transit.

In theory, if more people took public transit then it would come more often and there would be more routes, thereby making it faster.

If you live in the suburbs, it's pretty hard to get to the city by transit. But where I live, in the city, I can get to work by bus in 10 minutes, plus 5 minutes waiting for a bus. Driving, by the time you find a parking spot and pay for parking, ends up taking about the same amount of time. Yet people around here drive to work anyways. I'm not sure why when it's easy to take the bus, and much cheaper.

Not to mention it's probably safer, better for the environment, causes less traffic jams and requires less road maintenance.

[Argus]

Driving 20 minutes to work when public transit takes 1 1/2 hours does not make much sense to me. Rapid transit indeed.

Ever take a subway or an L train through an actual urban area? They're way faster than cars, and you wind up with a livable urban environment rather than a bunch of surface parking lots and big boxes.

And there are how many such trains in Canada? Three? I can take a car to work (10 minutes) or take a bus (50 minutes including two transfers). Needless to say, I drive.

If you want to see moronic rapid transit people in action come to Ottawa and meet our mayor and city council. They've just approved a north-south transit train which will cost a billion dollars, NOT take people downtown, be slower then the present bus, and, by their own estimates, add only about 1100 people to the numbers of transit users each year. Future plans are for an east-west line - where the real delays and traffic jams are, but they're planning on running it on city streets, including downtown, like street cars, so it won't be any faster than your average car. That one is estimated at another billion and a half.

Meanwhile, tail pipes are pumping out pollution as cars idle along the overcrowded Queensway every rush hour.

[Charles Anthony]

Ater several moves in my life finally into the near north we finally have wonderful water. The well is 425 ft. deep and if we had to pay for it it would have cost us $10,000 to drill. I value my water very much. Especially after having had our hydro out this last week for 3 and one half days, no way to get water. Thankfully we can store enough water for just such a situation.

If all of the land mass in Canada was divided equally among all Canadians, not everybody would have equal land. Unfortunately, it is not possible for all Canadians to live as you do even if they wanted so.

Globally, Canadians might be considered lucky. Some people live in the desert and spend a lot of time transporting water daily. Our gift from God is the freedom to trade and take advantage of industrialization. Without those freedoms, the imbalances in wealth throughout the world would be more severe and the plight of many people would be more desparate. It is foolish to condemn the affluent without understanding everybody.

My husband and I also live on a fixed income and think we are very rich.

I think you are very rich too.