Northwest Passage

[bush_cheney2004]

Wrong pal, China is one of them.

And I can yap about my family all I want. It's my family.

Then please continue...in China are they?

Plus I think I recognize you train of thought and your writing style is verrry familiar. If you're who I think you are you not an American. Just a wanabe.

Plus it's hard to keep swinging at your yankee smoke. Too busy choking on it.

You sound like Denny Green....I am who you thought I was.

[james rahn]

Then please continue...in China are they?

You sound like Denny Green....I am who you thought I was.

Nobody is who they say they are on here. That's what makes it fun.

[james rahn]

Far better than good enough...the seeds of a superpower were planted. Meanwhile, back in the Evil Empire, Canada got some training wheels by 1867.

I appreciate that so many Americans died just so Canada could be a country. Now shove off and leave our Northwest Passage alone. :angry:

[bush_cheney2004]

I appreciate that so many Americans died just so Canada could be a country. Now shove off and leave our Northwest Passage alone. :angry:

Ha! You couldn't even find it without American GPS.....LOL!

[james rahn]

Ha! You couldn't even find it without American GPS.....LOL!

We have Chinese GPS up here...now available at WALMART!!!

[james rahn]

Okay, I'm bored now. I quit. Bye

[jbg]

I think your wrong on the cultural differences aspect of things. I wouldn't assume people in Alberta are culturally closer to the the people of Quebec than they are to the people of Montana. But I suppose you have to make a distinction between social cuture and material culture.

I've been to Calgary, Toronto, Montreal and Quebec City (and other places). Canada and the US are about as similar as bordering couintries Israel and Syria.

[james rahn]

I've been to Calgary, Toronto, Montreal and Quebec City (and other places). Canada and the US are about as similar as bordering couintries Israel and Syria.

Hardly.

Canada doesn't have the reputation for beligerance the US often has, but on a day-to-day basis and a person-to-person basis, I don't think the differences are anywhere that pronounced.

Edited January 26, 2008 by james rahn

[Guest American Woman]

Hardly.

Canada doesn't have the reputation for beligerance the US often has, but on a day-to-day basis and a person-to-person basis, I don't think the differences are anywhere that pronounced.

You're new here, James. After you've been here for awhile you'll realize that jbg posts his sarcastic "Canada and the U.S. have totally different cultures, languages, etc." responses ad nauseum.

QUOTE=james rahn: ...I think I recognize you train of thought and your writing style is verrry familiar. If you're who I think you are you not an American. Just a wanabe.

....I am who you thought I was.

So ... sounds as if you're not an American after all.

[james rahn]

So ... sounds as if you're not an American after all.

Not sure I follow you here. The tone of the person posting as Bush-Cheney sounds very much like someone I know from Chilliwack, BC who's very pro American.

I myself was born in Edmonton but my father's side of the family is from the US Midwest

[Guest American Woman]

Not sure I follow you here. The tone of the person posting as Bush-Cheney sounds very much like someone I know from Chilliwack, BC who's very pro American.

I myself was born in Edmonton but my father's side of the family is from the US Midwest

I was quoting Bush_cheney2004 there-- sounds to me as if he's saying that you're right in who you think he is, which would mean he's not an American.

[Drea]

I believe BC-2004 is a Canadian... perhaps a member of the Green party... he is a plant to get people to think that Americans are nasty buggers. No real human being could actually have his mentality and attitude. He's fake fer sure!

They would eat him ALIVE on Democratic Underground (actally they would eat all of you rightwingers alive!) Go DUer's! LOL

Edited January 26, 2008 by Drea

[james rahn]

I believe BC-2004 is a Canadian... perhaps a member of the Green party... he is a plant to get to hate Americans. No real human being could actually have his mentality and attitude. He's fake fer sure!

Weel if that doesn't beat all

[Alexandra]

I was quoting Bush_cheney2004 there-- sounds to me as if he's saying that you're right in who you think he is, which would mean he's not an American.

Bush Cheney:

You sound like Denny Green....I am who you thought I was.

You don't know who Denny Green is? Obviously you aren't an NFL fan.

As well, to be a 'submariner' in the U.S. Navy I doubt very much a Canadian would be accepted as an Officer on a boat unless he became a U.S. citizen?

`

[bush_cheney2004]

You don't know who Denny Green is? Obviously you aren't an NFL fan.

As well, to be a 'submariner' in the U.S. Navy I doubt very much a Canadian would be accepted as an Officer on a boat unless he became a U.S. citizen?

`

Well done....you have the right stuff. The Denny Green clue did not escape you.

[jbg]

They would eat him ALIVE on Democratic Underground (actally they would eat all of you rightwingers alive!) Go DUer's! LOL

I am no right-winger, and I lasted 10 minutes on DU. I posted, in response to someone contemplating suicide over Bush's 2004 victory "Bush won, Kerry lost, on to the next battle against the reactionaries". I was banned immediately.

[Ergonomic]

I am no right-winger, and I lasted 10 minutes on DU. I posted, in response to someone contemplating suicide over Bush's 2004 victory "Bush won, Kerry lost, on to the next battle against the reactionaries". I was banned immediately.

Yikes.

Re your signature. Have you ever been to Sweden?

[jbg]

Re your signature. Have you ever been to Sweden?

No. What does my signature have to do with Sweden?

[Rue]

I don't see the big deal about letting others pass through?

Goes back to what Leafless referred to. If you do not establish sovereignty by not allowing others passage and restricting their movement, under international law you may lose it forever.

Technically under international law, if you do not demonstrate uninterupted control over your lands, the part of the lands you do not demonstrate uniterupted control over are up for grabs.

We can legally argue that we have never willingingly abandon our land up north and the fact we do not have a huge military is not germaine. As long as we can argue one Inuit has lived up North continuously we have a solid arguement.

The second part of the above is contesting disputed land. Even if we can establish we have uniterupted sovereign rights to the North- we can also be deemed to have given them up if it can be shown we did not protect them and contest them when challenged by others. Our silence is legal precedent that can be used against us to say we have given up our rights.

The Americans know legally they will lose an international legal ruling after a very lengthy protracted battle. In the interim what they hope to do is pressure Canada into allowing them unimpeded access to all the North in return for them not pursuing it further. The Americans know they can't establish exclusive sovereignty for themselves and if they win their arguement against Canada then all their competitors have the same rights as them. That is the last thing they want.

What they want is for all the other competitors to be shut out because of Canadian soveriegnty and then have an exclusive relationship with Canada giving them the only other country other then Canada access to the North.

We are the least of the US's problem. Believe it or not Russia, China, Denmark, France, Norway and Britain are more of a problem to them right now then us.

For Canada to protect its sovereignty it has to physically show control-it doesn't have to be anything huge but continuous navy movement in all seasons, and some civilian presence moving about at all times.

Don't look now but Canada is in desperate need for its Inuit peoples to protect it up North.

So imagine that. Canada needs its aboriginals to survive. Hey now. That is ironic.

I myself would create a more pronounced mobile operations unit of Inuit Rangers and some RCMP and military forces patrolling the land, seas and air, combining its services for the Ministry of Fisheries and Natural Resources, Ministry of Defence and Ministry of Environment. I would deputize these personnel to enforce all three Ministry's laws and regulations as well as the criminal code and avoid overlapping jurisdictions working in duplication or cross purposes to one another.

In this manner we employ Inuit in meaningful work where they protect the earth and provide a valuable component to the police-military-environmental protection, fisheries and natural resources functions.

When establishing sovereignty an Inuit in a uniform on a kayak with a Canadian flag is just as valuable as a huge frigate or destroyer or jet fighter.

As it is now the only way Canada knows what goes on in terms of the Royal Navy, US Navy and Russian Navy

which regularly make a point of continually invading our Northern waters and travelling through them on purpose is through reports from Inuit hunters.

Oh Canada, we do not stand on guard for thee at the moment until we figure away to give back what we stole and apologize to those people we lied to and figure a way to get them to help us.

So which oen of you is calling Charter, Jennie or Joan and saying sorry...uh yah. I will not hold my breath. I have to them. It wasn't so bad. They said " that's nice" but until I get some more people to help remove the proverbial boot out of their collective bum bum while I mean well its hard for them to smile let alone stop standing up for their rights given the geometric positio of that boot.

So I say let's pull out the boot, givem them some disinfectant creams and help them heal then form an alliance real quick before all of the North melts and we find all kinds of Chinese, Americans, Ruskies and Lord knows who else turning out North into another garbage dump like they have in Antartica.

Edited February 8, 2008 by Rue

[Big Guy]

The Arctic Council is a high-level intergovernmental forum that addresses issues faced by the Arctic governments and the indigenous people of the Arctic. It has eight member countries: Canada, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, Russia, Sweden, and the United States.

http://www.arctic-council.org/index.php/en/

With climate change and ice melt, the Northwest Passage is becoming a viable transportation route - for commerce and also creates security issues.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/canadas-arctic-nightmare-just-came-true-the-northwest-passage-is-commercial/article14432440/

For example, A North Korea ship disguised as a commercial carrier could release missiles aimed at the USA.

At this point in time, the members states are co-operating but no one is conceding Canada's or any other claims. If right is might as it is in the rest of the world, it appears to me that Russia will have no problems establishing sovereignty with the ships and settlements it already has in the area. With the West treating Russia as a pariah, Russia may be selective as to who and what they will allow in the area.

Assuming that climate change will continue warming and making the Northwest Passage more navigational for a longer period of time, is this Canada's next battle - against Russia for control of the Passage?

What happens if the USA makes claims to it?

Ironically, this could soon become the next "hot spot" in confrontation between nations.

[bush_cheney2004]

Discussed at length here:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/6604-northwest-passage/

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/10058-strife-looms-between-america-canada-over-route/

Also see:

UNCLOS, PART II, Section 3, Subsection A ...."Innocent Passage".

[On Guard for Thee]

We need to keep our chunk of the arctic. With global warming we will soon be harvesting a lot of food there. And I have already made legal claim to the name Arctic Shores Yacht Club.

[Derek 2.0]

For example, A North Korea ship disguised as a commercial carrier could release missiles aimed at the USA.

Poor example, if the intent was such, a more likely scenario would be launching missiles in existing trade routes, closer to the Lower 48.........or detonate a nuke hidden inside an ISO container.

At this point in time, the members states are co-operating but no one is conceding Canada's or any other claims. If right is might as it is in the rest of the world, it appears to me that Russia will have no problems establishing sovereignty with the ships and settlements it already has in the area. With the West treating Russia as a pariah, Russia may be selective as to who and what they will allow in the area.

The Northwest passage runs through a section of the Arctic, bisected between the Canadian mainland and Victoria Island........there are no Russian settlements or ships in such waters......

Assuming that climate change will continue warming and making the Northwest Passage more navigational for a longer period of time, is this Canada's next battle - against Russia for control of the Passage?

There has been a barge shipment stranded in the ice (which came earlier last year) between Kugluktuk and Cambridge Bay since early last Fall.......commercial shipping transiting through the region will likely never be viable, with shipping to the Northern Canadian (from Hay River and Montreal) communities already curtailed by the pre-existing environmental conditions, only "free" for several months of the year (late July to early September).....

-------

With that said, control of the Arctic, as a whole, has been an ongoing diplomatic "battle" for decades.

What happens if the USA makes claims to it?

The Arctic or the Northwest passage? The Americans already control a portion of the "on-ramp" for the Northwest passage, with the Danes having partial control of the other bookend.......

Ironically, this could soon become the next "hot spot" in confrontation between nations.

The Arctic as a whole without a doubt, as its resource rich and still one of the namely virgin pieces of real estate left on the planet......but has been a focus, granted gaining far less attention then it deserves, for decades.......

[On Guard for Thee]

Weve already got the DEW line (now north warning system) on the lookout for missiles coming at us. BTW, Cape Parry has a kitchen in it I would die to have in my house.

[Derek 2.0]

Weve already got the DEW line (now north warning system) on the lookout for missiles coming at us. BTW, Cape Parry has a kitchen in it I would die to have in my house.

Cape Parry has been automated since the 1980s........as is the majority of the former DEW sites (now CAM-NWS), with only several such sites with military and civilian personal throughout the year.