bush_cheney2004 Posted September 13, 2009 Report Posted September 13, 2009 ....Pretty horrific if you ask me. Chretien's are the comments of a confused putz....years earlier, he wanted a massive "Western" intervention in Rwanda but failed to get international support. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jbg Posted September 14, 2009 Report Posted September 14, 2009 The truth hurts sometimes. As Chretien said "a truth is a truth". Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 14, 2009 Report Posted September 14, 2009 As Chretien said "a truth is a truth". Chretien's mouth wrote checks that he could never cash. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GostHacked Posted September 14, 2009 Report Posted September 14, 2009 I could never even begin to imagine the horror those people went through with the decision making. Each one seems to end in death. But what do you do, you are in a banged up burning building, and your access to the ground has been cut off. Those that went up thiking the roof would be a good idea were left stranded because there did not seem to be any attempt or plan to try and rescue people that way. Smoke, fire and destruction all around you. How the hell do you react, how do you come to your senses? Because it's not like this happens every day. Such a messed up day. My heart goes out to all those who had to make that decision to jump. Quote
eyeball Posted September 14, 2009 Report Posted September 14, 2009 911 was in the works for long before anyone knew Bush would be President. The west's interference in the regions the terrorists are from have been 'in the works' for decades. Are you calling Clinton a warmonger? I'm sure he played his part like many other western leaders have over the years. There's little to be gained now by trying to pin that catastrophe on any one person/country/interest. We're all guilty to some degree. How many more attacks has the U.S. suffered since 911? None yet thankfully, but I notice Bin Laden is still free so I wouldn't be surprised if something isn't in the works and I think its probably safe to assume there are even more people who'd be willing to try. Unfortunately for us I think Canada is now much higher on the list of likeliest places another big attack will occur. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 ....None yet thankfully, but I notice Bin Laden is still free so I wouldn't be surprised if something isn't in the works and I think its probably safe to assume there are even more people who'd be willing to try. Unfortunately for us I think Canada is now much higher on the list of likeliest places another big attack will occur. Much higher than what? You already posted that the "west's inteference" had sealed Canada's fate decades ago. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 ....My heart goes out to all those who had to make that decision to jump. Hmmm...I remember the black humor from that day....."Smoking or Non-smoking ? " Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jbg Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) The west's interference in the regions the terrorists are from have been 'in the works' for decades.No, centures. And it started with the need of the West to go through or around those areas.And why is it that the Muslims can "interfere" in the West by sending millions of their people here, and woe to anyone with the temerity to set up a state in the midst of Muslim lands? Or worse to emigrate to a Muslim land? Edited September 15, 2009 by jbg Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
eyeball Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 No, centures. And it started with the need of the West to go through or around those areas. Did we really need to be such dick-heads about how we did this though? Being dick-heads about how we meet this need of our's this century certainly hasn't helped. When will we ever learn our lesson I wonder? And why is it that the Muslims can "interfere" in the West by sending millions of their people here, and woe to anyone with the temerity to set up a state in the midst of Muslim lands? Or worse to emigrate to a Muslim land? I thought the west invited these millions, you know, send us your oppressed masses and all that other Shining Beacon stuff. As for Israel/Palestine...why anyone would choose to live there is beyond me and I know people who have emigrated to other places in the region so I don't know why that's an issue. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Oleg Bach Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 You see the images once, that's enough! Anyone needing to see them twice should go find some cheeze ball snuff films out of the 70s. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 Did we really need to be such dick-heads about how we did this though? Being dick-heads about how we meet this need of our's this century certainly hasn't helped. When will we ever learn our lesson I wonder? Of course "we" did....just because "we" have done it better than those that have gone before doesn't make it invalid. Did the Persians "ever learn" ? I thought the west invited these millions, you know, send us your oppressed masses and all that :lol:other Shining Beacon stuff. As for Israel/Palestine...why anyone would choose to live there is beyond me and I know people who have emigrated to other places in the region so I don't know why that's an issue. Cool.....you mean the First Nations invited "us" over too ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 Why are always you such a wierdo when it comes to "us" and "we"? Did the Persians "ever learn" ? Ever learn what? Cool.....you mean the First Nations invited "us" over too ? I suspect a handful or two who subscribed to the notion that the enemy of my enemy is my friend probably did. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 Why are always you such a wierdo when it comes to "us" and "we"? Because you use the term very loosely to support simple minded, collective assertions. Ever learn what? Whatever it is you think "we" are supposed to have learned by now. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Bonam Posted September 18, 2009 Report Posted September 18, 2009 Clearly, every tall office building constructed in the future needs non-flammable ropes to be available in every office, preemptively attached to some strong structural element, ready for people to evacuate through their windows without having to jump. This upgrade should also be retrofitted onto existing buildings. Quote
GostHacked Posted September 18, 2009 Report Posted September 18, 2009 Clearly, every tall office building constructed in the future needs non-flammable ropes to be available in every office, preemptively attached to some strong structural element, ready for people to evacuate through their windows without having to jump. This upgrade should also be retrofitted onto existing buildings. That is a tall and prohibitly expensive solution. Because eventhought there is a possibility of another 9/11 happening again, I don't think retrofitting every tall building in the US or even just in NYC is even feasible. You are going to need strong non flammable ropes, and a secure point of contact, and a harness/break system for each person in the building or on floors over a couple stories. Quote
eyeball Posted September 18, 2009 Report Posted September 18, 2009 Because you use the term very loosely to support simple minded, collective assertions. Term? Whatever it is you think "we" are supposed to have learned by now. "Who"? Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Bonam Posted September 18, 2009 Report Posted September 18, 2009 That is a tall and prohibitly expensive solution. Because eventhought there is a possibility of another 9/11 happening again, I don't think retrofitting every tall building in the US or even just in NYC is even feasible. You are going to need strong non flammable ropes, and a secure point of contact, and a harness/break system for each person in the building or on floors over a couple stories. Well it's not like the system would only be useful against a terrorist attack consisting of planes hitting the building. There could be any number of causes for a severe fire in which such an evacuation route would be useful. Also I think the cost of such a retrofit would not be prohibitively large. Ropes are not particularly expensive, nor are harnesses. Perhaps a couple hundred dollars per office... which is less than the person in that office earns every day. Heck I think if I worked in a tall office building I'd just bring in my own climbing gear and have it ready there. Quote
GostHacked Posted September 18, 2009 Report Posted September 18, 2009 Well it's not like the system would only be useful against a terrorist attack consisting of planes hitting the building. There could be any number of causes for a severe fire in which such an evacuation route would be useful. Also I think the cost of such a retrofit would not be prohibitively large. Ropes are not particularly expensive, nor are harnesses. Perhaps a couple hundred dollars per office... which is less than the person in that office earns every day.Heck I think if I worked in a tall office building I'd just bring in my own climbing gear and have it ready there. Those harnesses are a few hundred a piece. Maybe if your are high enough, grab a parachute !!! Quote
DogOnPorch Posted September 18, 2009 Report Posted September 18, 2009 Those harnesses are a few hundred a piece. Maybe if your are high enough, grab a parachute !!! Already exists... http://novatechgadgets.com/hohiofpaes.html Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted September 18, 2009 Report Posted September 18, 2009 Already exists...http://novatechgadgets.com/hohiofpaes.html Sweet, one of the most awesome things I ever done is skydiving. And those are a lot more expensive !! But, sign me up. Quote
Bonam Posted September 18, 2009 Report Posted September 18, 2009 Those harnesses are a few hundred a piece. Maybe if your are high enough, grab a parachute !!! A good idea too, and as pointed out above, already exists. As for the equipment: Climbing Harness: $40 Self-Belay Device: $280 Rope: $179/70m I'm sure you could find these things cheaper shopping around too, that's just like 2 minutes of looking. Anyway, would be well worth it at 5 times the price. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted September 18, 2009 Report Posted September 18, 2009 Sweet, one of the most awesome things I ever done is skydiving. And those are a lot more expensive !! But, sign me up. They made a big thing of systems like that just after 9-11. Instructions: hurl desk through window... Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Bonam Posted September 18, 2009 Report Posted September 18, 2009 QUOTEInstructions: hurl desk through window... I don't get why they don't build office buildings with windows that open. You shouldn't have to hurl your desk anywhere just to get some fresh air lol. Quote
M.Dancer Posted September 18, 2009 Report Posted September 18, 2009 I don't get why they don't build office buildings with windows that open. You shouldn't have to hurl your desk anywhere just to get some fresh air lol. A couple of reasons.... Air pressure. Opening a window on the 69th floor could get you sucked out.... Winds....opening a window on the 69th floor with the winds whipping by at 60km could blow out lots of windows.... I guess that's really only one reason... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Bonam Posted September 18, 2009 Report Posted September 18, 2009 A couple of reasons....Air pressure. Opening a window on the 69th floor could get you sucked out.... Winds....opening a window on the 69th floor with the winds whipping by at 60km could blow out lots of windows.... I guess that's really only one reason... Clearly these are simple engineering issues. In regards to air pressure, it is only the very tallest buildings that have pressurized and hermetically sealed upper floors. In a mere 69 floor building, the air pressure at any given height is the ambient pressure at that height. As for opening the windows causing damage, clearly, they can be designed in such a way as to not be damaged in whatever wind is reasonably expected to ever occur at that height. For one, they could be sliding windows rather than ones that stick out into the wind; that in itself would reduce the stress substantially. Quote
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