Pope scolds Canada on gay marriage, abortion

bradco · September 9, 2006

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/200...ope-canada.html

"In the name of tolerance, your country has had to endure the folly of the redefinition of spouse," the Pope told a group of bishops from Ontario

-damn tolerance... so is he openly admitting being an intolerant bigot?

Such laws, Benedict said, are the result of "the exclusion of God from the public sphere."

-yup sure is....thats the idea...religous beliefs are a personal, private issue not a public one

He lamented that Catholic politicians had yielded to "ephemeral social trends and the spurious demands of opinion polls."

-ya honestly opinion polls, giving a crap about what the majority has to say......damn democracy! how much better it would be if we were ruled by a totalitarian religous government....like some in the middle east!

what a tool

sharkman · September 9, 2006

I, for one, am glad and relieved that a Pope has the gumption to tell it like it is. Instead of name calling, if you don't like it why don't you turn the channel(or page).

Reminder: Religion is not a democracy. God doesn't ask us for our input on moral issues, kind of like the way mom didn't ask me for mine when I was a toddler and wanted to touch the hot stove.

bradco · September 9, 2006

I, for one, am glad and relieved that a Pope has the gumption to tell it like it is. Instead of name calling, if you don't like it why don't you turn the channel(or page).
Reminder: Religion is not a democracy. God doesn't ask us for our input on moral issues, kind of like the way mom didn't ask me for mine when I was a toddler and wanted to touch the hot stove.

well I for one refuse to follow your "gods" morality when it is so clearly immoral to me, and the majority of canadians

Personally, i think, god doesn't ask our input on moral issues simply because he doesn't exist

Slavik44 · September 9, 2006

I, for one, am glad and relieved that a Pope has the gumption to tell it like it is. Instead of name calling, if you don't like it why don't you turn the channel(or page).
Reminder: Religion is not a democracy. God doesn't ask us for our input on moral issues, kind of like the way mom didn't ask me for mine when I was a toddler and wanted to touch the hot stove.

Okay so I was worried for a second, but after looking at my driver's license, passport, birth certificate, social Insurance number, and every other official document I could find, I found no reference to me living in a country called Religion.

myata · September 9, 2006

Yeah, me too wonder what exactly he had in mind ...

"Hmm, dear constituents, it was a hard decision ...

but I have to follow my morals ... and the call of my priest ...

so I have decided ... here, bear with me another second ...

to indroduce a private member bill ...

(oh God) ... to prohibit ... CONTRACEPTION!"

I wouldn't question "why would anyone ..." because as someone already

pointed out, being a private matter, it would be no more polite

than "why do you wear green underwear". However, these ideas, in this time

and age, indeed sound quite out of date.

betsy · September 9, 2006

Good! I hope the Catholic leaders who had anything to do with those legislations are feeling the sting.

Leafless · September 9, 2006

-ya honestly opinion polls, giving a crap about what the majority has to say......damn democracy! how much better it would be if we were ruled by a totalitarian religous government....like some in the middle east!
what a tool

Opinion polls are more than sometimes worded to obtain a desired response and could be used to manipulate the masses.

If you believe you are in the fold replying or agreeing to an opinion poll ----please think again.

The PM in Canada has more power than a president and is on the same level as a monarch.

If you do not understand the damage done to Canada by previous federal governments behaving solely in a dictatorial manner and in the same manner as a totalitarian government, I really don't understand why you would be worried or object being ruled by a totalitarian religious government.

bradco · September 9, 2006

-ya honestly opinion polls, giving a crap about what the majority has to say......damn democracy! how much better it would be if we were ruled by a totalitarian religous government....like some in the middle east!

what a tool

Opinion polls are more than sometimes worded to obtain a desired response and could be used to manipulate the masses.

If you believe you are in the fold replying or agreeing to an opinion poll ----please think again.

The PM in Canada has more power than a president and is on the same level as a monarch.

If you do not understand the damage done to Canada by previous federal governments behaving solely in a dictatorial manner and in the same manner as a totalitarian government, I really don't understand why you would be worried or object being ruled by a totalitarian religious government.

granted opinion polls are manipulated.....Id still say in this case the majority of Canadians don't really mind if a couple of guys or a couple of girls get married

prime minister has more power than the president....less than a monarch

one difference Canadian governments of the past, present and future will always have with a dictatorship or totalitarian government.....they will eventually have to face the voters. A totalitarian religious government would never face the voters. Thats a pretty big difference you choose to ignore

Melanie_ · September 9, 2006

Such laws, Benedict said, are the result of "the exclusion of God from the public sphere."

The public sphere doesn't need The Magic Sky Pixie's version of morality.

sharkman · September 9, 2006

I don't think some of you get it. The Pope was not addressing you or your business. He was talking to some other religious guys who are part of the Catholic church. Unless you are a member of the Catholic church, his comments are of no purpose to you. Raising your hackles over this shows your intolerance.

As always, God doesn't force anybody to do anything. Last time I checked, Canada was not a Theocracy, therefore no church could dictate anything to anyone, except those like me who willingly submit to God.

Since 99% of all churches are against gay marriage I find it odd that some are surprised to hear that a church leader is against gay marriage. No duh, kind of like christmas is in December this year.

Follow any morals that you please or follow none. Your life is yours, a gift from God to do what you will and reap the benefits of your choices.

jbg · September 9, 2006

I, for one, am glad and relieved that a Pope has the gumption to tell it like it is. Instead of name calling, if you don't like it why don't you turn the channel(or page).
Reminder: Religion is not a democracy. God doesn't ask us for our input on moral issues, kind of like the way mom didn't ask me for mine when I was a toddler and wanted to touch the hot stove.

I'm Jewish, but I agree with the Pope on this one. Media is afraid to tell it like it is.

bradco · September 9, 2006

I don't think some of you get it. The Pope was not addressing you or your business. He was talking to some other religious guys who are part of the Catholic church. Unless you are a member of the Catholic church, his comments are of no purpose to you. Raising your hackles over this shows your intolerance.
As always, God doesn't force anybody to do anything. Last time I checked, Canada was not a Theocracy, therefore no church could dictate anything to anyone, except those like me who willingly submit to God.

Since 99% of all churches are against gay marriage I find it odd that some are surprised to hear that a church leader is against gay marriage. No duh, kind of like christmas is in December this year.

Follow any morals that you please or follow none. Your life is yours, a gift from God to do what you will and reap the benefits of your choices.

You couldn't be more wrong. How is his direct criticism of my country, of which I am immensely proud, not my business. If someone wants to criticize the policies of my country, no matter who he is talking to, I have every right to respond. On the one hand you say way to go to him for calling it as he sees it but criticize me when I call it as I see it???

His comments are no purpose to me if I am not a member of the catholic church? We might not share the same church but we share the same world and if someone wants to spread intolerance and hate Im going to call him on it everytime.

kimmy · September 9, 2006

I don't think some of you get it. The Pope was not addressing you or your business. He was talking to some other religious guys who are part of the Catholic church. Unless you are a member of the Catholic church, his comments are of no purpose to you. Raising your hackles over this shows your intolerance.

It's relevant that he was addressing biships and not politicians.

However, when he's advocating church activism in public policy, it becomes everyone's business.

-k

sharkman · September 9, 2006

You couldn't be more wrong. How is his direct criticism of my country, of which I am immensely proud, not my business. If someone wants to criticize the policies of my country, no matter who he is talking to, I have every right to respond. On the one hand you say way to go to him for calling it as he sees it but criticize me when I call it as I see it???
His comments are no purpose to me if I am not a member of the catholic church? We might not share the same church but we share the same world and if someone wants to spread intolerance and hate Im going to call him on it everytime.

I've got bad news for you. The Taliban and al quaida have said much worse things about Canada that the Pope ever has. Just FYI.

"We share the same world"? Come on, there's all kind of organizations right here in Canada that call for things like jail time for gay activities, punishment for educating woman and cutting off the hands of a thief. You don't have to look so far afield as Italy(or where ever those comments came from).

BTW, just because the almighty CBC claims the Pope lashed out at Canada, it doesn't make it true. He wasn't, it was just more typical knee jerking by the far left CBC.

Like I said, believe any moral you want or follow none. But don't act surprised when a religious leader comes out against gay marriage.

It's really nothing to get worked up about, he was just talking to members of his organization. If he comes to Canada and starts spouting off in the media, then you'll have some Pope lashing.

betsy · September 9, 2006

Such laws, Benedict said, are the result of "the exclusion of God from the public sphere."

The public sphere doesn't need The Magic Sky Pixie's version of morality.

Who says so?

The "magic sky pixie's" version of morality had always been the foundation of this country's values....if I'm not mistaken.

Perhaps the social ills and problems we see burgeoning now is the result of the decay of our moral fabric....

Renegade · September 9, 2006

Who says so?
The "magic sky pixie's" version of morality had always been the foundation of this country's values....if I'm not mistaken.

Based upon what do you say this? And even if the roots of the European peoples who conquered the country were, Chrisitian, is the morality vision not allowed to change over time? Even the Catholic's version of morality has changed over the last several hundred years.

Most people in Canada today, do not consider themselves religions fundamentalists. Even if they are affiliated with a religion, most Canadians are not dogmatic about adopting every religious policy for that religion. Most Canadians support a secular state and the tolerance for all religions beliefs and the ability to exercise freedom of religion

If you want to claim that the Popes' values speak for the Canadian people, show some evidence that today's Canadian society want Canada to be a Catholic Theocracy.

"In the name of tolerance, your country has had to endure the folly of the redefinition of spouse," the Pope told a group of bishops from Ontario. "In the name of freedom of choice, it is confronted with the daily destruction of unborn children."

The Pope is going beyond just lecturing Catholics on how to live their lives. He is even going beyond telling Catholic politicians that religion should dictate their legslative choices. He is now criticizing a secular state for not conforming to his religious view. Of course, he has the right to free speech and he can levy such criticism if he chooses, but it should then be fair game for states to openly criticize the Catholic church for their anti-Semitic and anti-Woman policies.

Leafless · September 9, 2006

A totalitarian religious government would never face the voters. Thats a pretty big difference you choose to ignore

Never mind the totalitarian religious government think of what democracy really means in Canada.

This is my point. How dictatorial or totalitarian a government in Canada is, is entirely in the hands of that party.

Most Canadians do not know or are not aware of what goes on behind the scenes.

How do you suppose for instance 'official bilingualism' was implemented and made policy??

All parties in Canada can rule in a totalitarian manner if they wish.

Back to the church.

How has the Catholic religion dictated the role of government in Canada outside of the controversial gay marriage controversy where gays stole the concept of marriage from the church. Christianity in general ( all denominations) were forced to defend that religiously attached traditional concept from being abused by a group not generally recognized with in the confines of most Christian domination's?

Michael Hardner · September 9, 2006

Leafless - were the Liberals totalitarian, or did they govern by polls ?

I've read both criticisms of their governments, but it seems to me any critic of the Liberals has to choose one tack or the other - either they did exactly what the polls told them to do, or they imposed their will on Canada.

Pick one.

Leafless · September 9, 2006

Leafless - were the Liberals totalitarian, or did they govern by polls ?
I've read both criticisms of their governments, but it seems to me any critic of the Liberals has to choose one tack or the other - either they did exactly what the polls told them to do, or they imposed their will on Canada.

Pick one.

That is a nonsensical question as it involves different interpretations concerning democracy.

In a free democratic society with some exceptions leaders rule by catering to majority interest.

In Canada the obvious advantageous use of polls which can be manipulated to the desires of a totalitarian government is the route the Liberals choose to take.

Michael Hardner · September 9, 2006

That is a nonsensical question as it involves different interpretations concerning democracy.
In a free democratic society with some exceptions leaders rule by catering to majority interest.

In Canada the obvious advantageous use of polls which can be manipulated to the desires of a totalitarian government is the route the Liberals choose to take.

How exactly were the polls manipulated ?

Either the Liberals followed public opinion or they did not. If they misrepresented the findings of the polls, then they weren't following public opinion and they were dictators - dictators who somehow got re-elected time after time. If they followed what the polls said, then they were catering to majority interest.

Which was it ?

Leafless · September 9, 2006

That is a nonsensical question as it involves different interpretations concerning democracy.
In a free democratic society with some exceptions leaders rule by catering to majority interest.

In Canada the obvious advantageous use of polls which can be manipulated to the desires of a totalitarian government is the route the Liberals choose to take.

How exactly were the polls manipulated ?

Either the Liberals followed public opinion or they did not. If they misrepresented the findings of the polls, then they weren't following public opinion and they were dictators - dictators who somehow got re-elected time after time. If they followed what the polls said, then they were catering to majority interest.

Which was it ?

Public opinions can be manipulated with carefully written questions relating to polls...

Could this be the Liberals key to success?

betsy · September 9, 2006

[ but it should then be fair game for states to openly criticize the Catholic church for their anti-Semitic and anti-Woman policies.

What is anti-semitic and anti-woman of the Catholic church?

Elder · September 9, 2006

Must we whine. It is the duy of any religious leader to represent their God, and if you don't believe in Him, at least their beliefs, and speak against practices that they consider to be immoral. In doing so, they invoke the same right that all y'all liberals use in criticizing him for it. What has been said has been said. Why on earth should you care, unless he happens too inspire a bit of guilt. People will say what they will.

It has been correctly pointed out that we are not in a theocracy, and as such, what the pope says is not politically relevant. He has the right to say what he will, just as you do, and those who wish to listen will listen. If you don't like it, fine. Please spare us the whining though.

Michael Hardner · September 9, 2006

Public opinions can be manipulated with carefully written questions relating to polls...
Could this be the Liberals key to success?

Ok. So they didn't really govern by polls, in that they didn't make decisions according to popular whim. That means they did what they thought was right.

Usually I hear conservatives describe this type of governing as being the style of PM Harper, but ok.

And Canadians rewarded them with four straight election whims despite the fact that they did the opposite of what the people wanted....

This is a strange take on things, but I guess it saves you from having to say anything positive about how the Liberals governed...

Leafless · September 10, 2006

And Canadians rewarded them with four straight election whims despite the fact that they did the opposite of what the people wanted....
This is a strange take on things, but I guess it saves you from having to say anything positive about how the Liberals governed...

Some Canadians rewarded them with four straight election wins.

You can go as far back as 1945 and find it was only the Conservatives who cracked the 50% popular vote barrier with one being John Diefenbaker in 1958 with 53.66% of the popular vote and Brian Mulroney in 1988 who broke the 50% barrier with 50.03% in 1984.

We are rewarding political parties with a faulty electoral system.