Carney faces ethics probe over Vancouver condo bailout questions

[eyeball]

For the record...according to google AI to my question;

Did Stephan Harper sell 800 thousand low income housing units to developers

Prime Minister Stephen Harper did not personally or directly sell 800,000 low-income housing units to developers.The figure of 800,000 affordable rental units stems from a highly criticized statistic used by political opponents—including the New Democratic Party (NDP) and the Liberal Party—and labor unions like CUPE. Rather than a direct mass sale of public property, the figure refers to a broader structural decline in Canada's affordable housing stock.

The Origin of the "800,000 Units" Claim

The 800,000 figure points to affordable, lower-rent units in the private market that were "lost" or converted into high-rent, luxury, or condominium spaces during the Conservative government's tenure. This erosion occurred due to several distinct policy decisions and market trends:

Expiration of Operating Agreements:

For decades, the federal government funded social housing through long-term operating agreements with providers. Under the Harper administration, many of these 25-to-35-year agreements reached their end dates. The government opted not to renew the subsidies, which housing advocates argue led to the eventual privatization or increased rental costs of those units.

The Private Financial Ecosystem: Critics point out that the federal regulatory environment at the time allowed corporate landlords and real estate investment trusts (REITs) to purchase older, lower-rent apartment buildings in bulk. These private buyers often initiated "renovictions" or "demo-evictions" to upscale the buildings and dramatically raise prices, effectively removing them from the affordable housing stock.

Decades of Federal Disengagement:

The decline of federally backed social housing in Canada did not start with Stephen Harper. It began in the early 1990s under Brian Mulroney's Conservative government and accelerated when Jean Chrétien's Liberal government completely withdrew federal funding for new social housing construction in 1993, downloading the responsibility to the provinces.

The Fact-Checking Reality

The accusation is frequently weaponized in modern political campaigns to target opposition leader Pierre Poilievre, who served briefly as Harper's Minister of Employment and Social Development (which oversaw housing policy at the time).

While it is historically accurate that Canada lost an estimated 800,000 market-affordable rental units to private sector gentrification and financialization during the Harper era, it is false to state that the government held ownership of these units and directly sold them off to corporate developers.

 

[LinkSoul60]

51 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

And lies are lies. You seem to prefer the second to the 1st

By almost every measure he was success

As we were recovering from the greatest recession in almost 100 years. Gosh  And he did better than almost all of his peers

But better than most countries. Again we're talking about the greatest recession in almost a hundred years

He was a wild success and it drives the liberals absolutely nuts. The Canadian recovery was almost twice the pace of Obama's, it led the world in many cases, and our recession was not as deep as long as other countries.

It's hard to imagine a prime minister doing better than he did in those economic times

I know that this is you off. But as you say the facts are the facts and your lies are lies

He was a failure.... and why the 2015 election was beat down for the Con's.

We were not as scathed because of our banking regulations and holding high risk mortgages and the fact our banks were/are well capitalized with no financial assistance needed there.  Add in the booming price of oil at the time and a savvy Bank of Canada Governor setting monetary policy and we skated through it okay.  

Harper was a failure though...

[LinkSoul60]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

1) So what's your issue, if taxpayer money wasn't given to developers?

2) FYI it was the Liberals who caused the bubble that burst on these developers, dummy.

1. Units were sold for what the market would bear. That's capitalism, dumbfack.
2. Are you really that comfortable in your socialist bubble that you're just going after capitalism now?
3. I'll type this really slowly for you so that you can read it:  HOMES WERE MORE AFFORDABLE UNDER HARPER. RENTS WERE MORE AFFORDABLE UNDER HARPER. That comes from comparing the rise in rents/prices vs the rise in incomes. 
4. The FAILURE AWARD of the last 20 years here in Canada goes directly to the LPoC, and it's not even close.
5. The LPoC made homes and rents less affordable, and they gave taxpayer money to "developers" who you think are evil. It's like the trifecta of sucking, donkey.

😂 That's just basic stupidity.

Prices have basically doubled every ten years in the lower mainland since 1950. 

No, one of the reasons Harper was voted out was because many felt that housing was becoming more unaffordable and not possible during his term, which it was for many.

His courting of Chinese investment is the reason LM and GTA housing prices went beyond stûpid in the early 2000's.

He was a failure...

 

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said:

How could taxpayer money be used to sell?  No, they sold affordable units to landlords and developers who profited from those purchases by taking those units off the market and seeing both rent and home prices further increase with lesser supply.

Personally, I think they should have stayed out of it and let the market price find it's own level without the governments assistance, but if they buy at cost or below it's a net positive for rent to own owners, and minimal risk to taxpayers with the mortgage being an asset, not a liability.

People in Metro Vancouver or populated areas of BC likely have little sympathy for your ~$375k - $400k average NB home price that has doubled in the last decade.  

How did Liberals help Liberals here?

So its not the same is it, Carney is buying condos with tax money at inflated prices bailing them out.....

Thats how the free market works....It has already been said they will buy at today prices, so contractors and bankers don't risk anything...again you don't understand it is tax payers money....how much do you affordable housing is worth....

I purchased my home for 375, 6 years ago sold it for 810.....it is like this in most of the Maritimes, unless you want to live in buck fu@k no where....

I'm pretty sure they are not conservative contractors or conservative banks.. what makes you think they are not liberal ? it has been discovered that many have donated to the liberal party, sorry conservatives don't do that...

[Goddess]

1 hour ago, LinkSoul60 said:

He was a failure...

Yet you have no problem with the Liberals doing WORSE.

[LinkSoul60]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

Yet you have no problem with the Liberals doing WORSE.

No, I had a big problem with Trudeau.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, LinkSoul60 said:

Sure it did....they allowed 800k affordable rental units to be sold to corporations.

Oh suddenly it's "allowed"   Here's you earlier:

 

3 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said:

No, I mean they sold affordable rental units to corporate landlords and developers so they could further profit.

 

Suddenly it's "they allowed"    Because you lied. and you know you lied and that never happened 

But  you're still lying. Lets take a look

did harper sell 800,000 low rental properties - Google Search

 

The claim that Stephen Harper's government sold 800,000 low-rental properties is a politically charged talking point frequently used by rival parties. [1, 2, 3]

However, this is not an accurate description of a direct government sell-off. Here are the facts:

• What the claim actually refers to: The figure stems from data highlighting the loss or conversion of approximately 800,000 private, "naturally occurring" affordable rental units in Canada between 2011 and 2016. These were not government-owned units. [1, 2, 3]
• The root cause: These units disappeared from the market due to private developers renovating properties (sometimes called "renovictions") or raising rents to unaffordable rates, rather than a direct government transfer or sale of public housing. [1, 2, 4, 5]
• The political context: Rival parties—such as the NDP and the Liberals—have used this data to criticize Pierre Poilievre (who served as Minister responsible for housing under Harper), arguing the government failed to intervene, supported policies that favored corporate landlords, and cut off funding for new social housing

The bolding wasn't me btw. 

So people sold or renovated their private property and you claim that this means harper sold it. 

People owned that property, people decided to fix up their places and rent it for more, and you blame harper because he didn't pass new laws that would deny people the right to renovate or sell their own property 

You're a lying sack of shit who just got exposed for what you are. 

Want to try again little guy? Or are you done looking like a steaming pile of diarrhea for the day?

 

In fact any such housing changes would have been provincial in any rate. Harper was easily one of the best prime ministers we have ever had and certainly the best when it comes to finance. Trudeau was the worst. Carney looks like he's taking a page out of Trudeau's Playbook

[LinkSoul60]

15 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

So its not the same is it, Carney is buying condos with tax money at inflated prices bailing them out.....

Thats how the free market works....It has already been said they will buy at today prices, so contractors and bankers don't risk anything...again you don't understand it is tax payers money....how much do you affordable housing is worth....

I purchased my home for 375, 6 years ago sold it for 810.....it is like this in most of the Maritimes, unless you want to live in buck fu@k no where....

I'm pretty sure they are not conservative contractors or conservative banks.. what makes you think they are not liberal ? it has been discovered that many have donated to the liberal party, sorry conservatives don't do that...

If it is as they say, buying at or below construction cost then that's not 'at inflated prices'.  There are still details needed though for what the cost of the units really is, how the financing works, etc...  so we'll hear more whenever that is.  I agree though... the market should set market pricing, not the government.  

You did well with the equity made from that sale.  I'm pretty sure though that the bank/s that cleared your mortgage and brought on the new one don't give a damn about your or their politics...  they/you/everyone only cares about the financial outcomes to themselves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[eyeball]

24 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

and you blame harper because he didn't pass new laws that would deny people the right to renovate or sell their own property 

No, people are criticizing Carney, and in the process we're finding that the housing shortages started decades ago under various governments for reasons that all helped reduce affordable housing stock.

We all get it you people have an insatiable need to absolve your precious Conservatives, and especially Harper, for absolutely anything they contributed to the problem. But why do you think that would prevent people from pointing out these omissions, like this one?

While the Harper administration did not actively put 800,000 public units up for sale, its policy to let affordable housing subsidies expire effectively forced hundreds of thousands of previously affordable units into the lucrative private market.

Harper was just carrying on with a policy to get Ottawa out of funding subsidized housing that started under Mulroney, accelerated under Chretien and was completed by Harper. Now the mess that created, no affordable housing stock at all anywhere, is in Carney's lap...or Ottawa's which is how I primarily choose to look at it. 

It is what it is.

 

[LinkSoul60]

44 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Oh suddenly it's "allowed"   Here's you earlier:

 

Suddenly it's "they allowed"    Because you lied. and you know you lied and that never happened 

But  you're still lying. Lets take a look

did harper sell 800,000 low rental properties - Google Search

 

The claim that Stephen Harper's government sold 800,000 low-rental properties is a politically charged talking point frequently used by rival parties. [1, 2, 3]

However, this is not an accurate description of a direct government sell-off. Here are the facts:

• What the claim actually refers to: The figure stems from data highlighting the loss or conversion of approximately 800,000 private, "naturally occurring" affordable rental units in Canada between 2011 and 2016. These were not government-owned units. [1, 2, 3]
• The root cause: These units disappeared from the market due to private developers renovating properties (sometimes called "renovictions") or raising rents to unaffordable rates, rather than a direct government transfer or sale of public housing. [1, 2, 4, 5]
• The political context: Rival parties—such as the NDP and the Liberals—have used this data to criticize Pierre Poilievre (who served as Minister responsible for housing under Harper), arguing the government failed to intervene, supported policies that favored corporate landlords, and cut off funding for new social housing

The bolding wasn't me btw. 

So people sold or renovated their private property and you claim that this means harper sold it. 

People owned that property, people decided to fix up their places and rent it for more, and you blame harper because he didn't pass new laws that would deny people the right to renovate or sell their own property 

You're a lying sack of shit who just got exposed for what you are. 

Want to try again little guy? Or are you done looking like a steaming pile of diarrhea for the day?

 

In fact any such housing changes would have been provincial in any rate. Harper was easily one of the best prime ministers we have ever had and certainly the best when it comes to finance. Trudeau was the worst. Carney looks like he's taking a page out of Trudeau's Playbook

I sent you the facts... tons of times.

Harper was a failure Kiddo...  accept it and move on.

[CdnFox]

Just now, eyeball said:

No, people are criticizing Carney, and in the process we're finding that the housing shortages started decades ago under various governments for reasons that all helped reduce affordable housing stock.

 

Nope. First off Carney is at fault for what he's doing which is bailing out developers. If he didn't they would have to sell their homes that are reduced rate or rent them out, either way lowering prices for people. Now those people are being bailed out on the government die with no guarantee the homes will ever be rented out to low income people or sold to needing families or be used to reduce prices as it would have been

This is a 100% carney thing it has absolutely nothing to do with the past

Second it off the only thing that the federal government has to do with housing availability historically is immigration. The liberals screwed up immigration over the last 11 years that's true not played a horrible role but that was not decades in the making that was only the liberals.

The rest of the problem falls on provincial and Municipal governments. They've increased the regulation around homes jacking up prices severely and limiting builds and extending build times to create a constant crisis. They become drunk on developer money. But that has nothing to do with the feds, although both trudeau and carney said they'd fix that and neither have. This certainly won't help 

So you're wrong across the board. The situation we're talking about is 100% carney and has nothing to do with the past. Federally the liberals are the only ones who can take a significant amount of blame for the housing crisis due to their immigration policy where they deliberately allowed in far more people then the number of homes being built and did so after their own people warned them not to

Swing in a miss kiddo

2 minutes ago, LinkSoul60 said:

I sent you the facts... tons of times.

 

You never sent anything of the kind and I just posted the facts which prove you were wrong. Along with the link.

Although it's certainly not surprising to see you transiting from lying about what harper did to lying about having provided the information  Lying is what you liberals are good at

[CdnFox]

7 minutes ago, eyeball said:

While the Harper administration did not actively put 800,000 public units up for sale, its policy to let affordable housing subsidies expire effectively forced hundreds of thousands of previously affordable units into the lucrative private market.

 

 

So the original poster lied when he said harper sold homes

And in fact what you appear to be saying is that the government was paying subsidies for housing and with those subsidies expired they didn't renew paying government money to subsidize cheap housing. But in fact there's absolutely no evidence whatsoever that most of those people wouldn't have simply gone ahead and done the same thing anyway given the increase in pricing for homes and rent. And in fact we know a lot of the housing that still received subsidies chose to go that route

Landlords choose to drop subsidies to upgrade Previously affordable homes for higher rent - Google Search

So even when the subsidies are still there a huge percentage of the landlords are dropping the subsidiesrenovating for higher rents

So in other words the idea that harper somehow put 800,000 homes out of play is absolute nonsense. Completely manufactured

[CdnFox]

9 minutes ago, LinkSoul60 said:

I sent you the facts... tons of times.

Harper was a failure Kiddo...  accept it and move on.

Harper was one of the best canada has ever seen. And that's why he always ranks in the top 3, frequently top 2, best prime ministers in history when people are polled. 

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said:

No, one of the reasons Harper was voted out was because many felt that housing was becoming more unaffordable and not possible during his term, which it was for many.

His courting of Chinese investment is the reason LM and GTA housing prices went beyond stûpid in the early 2000's.

He was a failure...

Buddy, he was voted out because CBC made his last 3 years all about Duffygate. CBC was calling the 2015 election "A referendum on Duffygate", not on housing affordability.

Housing unaffordability has gone way up since the Libs were elected. We had a whole thread devoted to it. 

House and rent prices both went up by a much wider margin than the minimum and average wages did. 

Also, the Libs moved immigration from 260,000 in 2014, under Harper, to 485,000 in 2024. Google it, doofus.

Last but not least, Canada had a $1.9B surplus in 2014. You don't even know what that word means, do you, imbecile? No leftists know what it means. It means that his budget was better than Carney's by about $50B? Maybe $60B?  

You're just a clueless ret4rd who will say things that are the exact opposite of the truth, regardless of how many times you're called out. 

[Legato]

27 minutes ago, LinkSoul60 said:

I sent you the facts... tons of times.

Harper was a failure Kiddo...  accept it and move on.

I see you're back on the payroll.

Harper was a success...accept it and move on.

[LinkSoul60]

20 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You never sent anything of the kind and I just posted the facts which prove you were wrong. Along with the link.

Although it's certainly not surprising to see you transiting from lying about what harper did to lying about having provided the information  Lying is what you liberals are good at

You need to look for better hero's Kid.  Your guy was a failure.

 

 

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, LinkSoul60 said:

You need to look for better hero's Kid.  Your guy was a failure.

 

 

LOL i can hear you crying from here kiddo  

It must absolutely suck that you know in your heart the best financial prime minister we've ever had was a conservative and that none of the liberals before or after have come even close. And that as much as people didn't like him he still in the top spots for best prime minister ever again and again and again when polls are taken.

Try harder kid. Love seeing those salty tears  

[eyeball]

9 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Nope. First off Carney is at fault for what he's doing which is bailing out developers.

Correct.

12 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The situation we're talking about is 100% carney and has nothing to do with the past.

No, 100% blame for a long term widespread problem is simply a partisan dodge all too commonly used to dump on incumbents in the present. This dodge has been with us for decades, it won't be going away anytime soon and it contributes nothing towards a solution.

32 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Federally the liberals are the only ones who can take a significant amount of blame for the housing crisis due to their immigration policy where they deliberately allowed in far more people then the number of homes being built and did so after their own people warned them not to

They certainly didn't make things any better. I didn't expect them to, why did you?

 

[eyeball]

41 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So the original poster lied when he said harper sold homes

It seems more like an oversight and you're ridiculously suspicious.

41 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So in other words the idea that harper somehow put 800,000 homes out of play is absolute nonsense. Completely manufactured

The idea was fabricated alright, by partisans seeking to blame an incumbent for everything that was going wrong. Do you see the pattern here, am I getting thru to you at all?

But the reality remains that 800,000 is the estimated number of affordable and social housing units across Canada that gradually lost federal funding and rent subsidies when Harper let long-term federal operating agreements run out.

He was just finishing a job that started long before anyone had heard of him.

Now it's Carney's turn to take the heat.  No one said the system is smart. It's certainly unable to cultivate much in the way of a forgiving temperament to avoid everything defaulting to endless acrimony and combat.

Edited 14 hours ago by eyeball

[LinkSoul60]

53 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Buddy, he was voted out because CBC made his last 3 years all about Duffygate. CBC was calling the 2015 election "A referendum on Duffygate", not on housing affordability.

Housing unaffordability has gone way up since the Libs were elected. We had a whole thread devoted to it. 

House and rent prices both went up by a much wider margin than the minimum and average wages did. 

Also, the Libs moved immigration from 260,000 in 2014, under Harper, to 485,000 in 2024. Google it, doofus.

Last but not least, Canada had a $1.9B surplus in 2014. You don't even know what that word means, do you, imbecile? No leftists know what it means. It means that his budget was better than Carney's by about $50B? Maybe $60B?  

You're just a clueless ret4rd who will say things that are the exact opposite of the truth, regardless of how many times you're called out. 

You're an idi0t, and he was a failure. 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

It seems more like an oversight and you're ridiculously suspicious.

It's literally what he said, how would that make me suspicious??

Starting to sound like you've been into the NyQuil again a little bit early. I suppose it is a day off tomorrow

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

The idea was fabricated alright, by partisans seeking to blame an incumbent for everything that was going wrong.

It really doesn't. It sounds like somebody childishly fabricating something in order to deflect from the wrongdoings of a current incumbent that they approve of. And that's a common theme with the left, if they can't make their fail leader look good then they'll try to make another leader look bad so that there's looks good by comparison.

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Do you see the pattern here, am I getting thru to you at all?

The pattern is that you're dishonest piece of crap who can't keep his story straight for 5 minutes. And yes I definitely see it

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

But the reality remains that 800,000 is the estimated number of affordable and social housing units across Canada that gradually lost federal funding and rent subsidies when Harper let long-term federal operating agreements run out.

But the fact also remains that many of them had were would have anyway converted away from social housing units. That's one of the reasons the Conservatives moved away from that model and spent the money on the Housing First initiative, which proved very successful and was vastly superior to the subsidized housing. 

In fact given the economics of the time it's quite fair to say that the majority and possibly all of those units would have been lost regardless.

So even the statement that harper's policy lost 800,000 units is a complete and utter fabrication.

Not to mention the fact He spent the money subsidizing people instead of properties and that worked out better

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

He was just finishing a job that started long before anyone had heard of him.

What are you even talking about. The people before him addressed homelessness in one way which was fine and harper came at it from a different direction that proved more successful. Neither party in that did anything wrong

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Now it's Carney's turn to take the heat.

No it's not. Carney has choices, he can do a good job or you can do a bad job. He only takes heat if he does a bad job

And he's doing a bad job. I see we've got new tariffs on us from china now for our agriculture which I predicted.

But you keep insisting daily that he's wonderful and doing an amazing job and we're so lucky and what a great guy etc etc

This isn't some sort of general criticism, you can point to specific things and say this is wrong. What he's doing with bailing out the developers is wrong. It has nothing to do with anything other than the fact that it's corruption and it's wrong

And yet once again you're here defending corruption on claiming how it's not Carney's fault for doing the corruption it's everybody else in history fault leading up to this that's made him corrupt or something

What he's doing is wrong. You should call evil out for being evil when you see it. Instead, you support it. 

[eyeball]

10 hours ago, CdnFox said:

you keep insisting daily that he's wonderful and doing an amazing job and we're so lucky and what a great guy etc etc

If it was only yesterday I said these things it should be a snap to point at one so we'll know what you're babbling about.