"Conservatives On The Defensive!"

Oddman · June 19, 2006

It is due to my experience inside Christianity why I now feel I am better off without it.

Understandable.

Just like an ex-smoker tends to be very anti-smoking more than anyone else.

Or someone who decided to become vegetarian....and now can't stand even the smell of meat.

Very well said. And I don't loathe people who identify themselves as Christian either. I do feel that some people just say they are Christian but do not act very Christ-like. Christ was not judgemental, he was forgiving. Being anti-gay is not a forgiving way of living one's life.

Jesus was very judging when he cast sellers out of the temple. Didn't he also have strong judgements on the Pharisees and the chief Priests? There is a place to say something is wrong, just as you have stated it's wrong to claim to be a Christian and then live without morals.

As for anti-gay, I don't know how you view the Bible, but in Romans 1:27 it clearly states homosexuality is an error. For believers of the Bible to state this does not make them judgemental.

I guess you have to be a believer in the Bible to agree with Romans 1:27. But prostitution is illegal, and Jesus was able to spare her life.

Why did he cast sellers from the temple? It seems to me that there are times when Jesus took a stand, and yet there is nothing in the Bible that relates Jesus directly with the subject of homosexuality.

sharkman · June 19, 2006

Jesus also didn't deal with white color crime, masterbation, S&M, or saying you believe in the Sabbath but then going out and eating food in a restaurant, making other people work on a Sabbath.

But it's easy to work your way through these issues if you follow the weight of the bible's teachings, if you see what I mean. I suppose I am getting off track and I don't mean to preach at anyone, so...

By the way, Jesus didn't spare her life, He saved it.

Michael Hardner · June 19, 2006

The discussion is drifting, but I agree with the earlier posts that pointed out that Harper's statement is non-denominational, and would be welcomed by practicing people of most faiths.

The idea that Harper is GWB's idealogical twin is such a lazy argument. The CPC is to the left of the Democrats on many issues, social-wise. I think that it's a shame that such an innocuous and positive statement would be the subject of so much debate. We seem to spend more time arguing symbols and signifiers than actual policy.

Leader Circle · June 19, 2006

It is due to my experience inside Christianity why I now feel I am better off without it.

Understandable.

Just like an ex-smoker tends to be very anti-smoking more than anyone else.

Or someone who decided to become vegetarian....and now can't stand even the smell of meat.

Very well said. And I don't loathe people who identify themselves as Christian either. I do feel that some people just say they are Christian but do not act very Christ-like. Christ was not judgemental, he was forgiving. Being anti-gay is not a forgiving way of living one's life.

Jesus was very judging when he cast sellers out of the temple. Didn't he also have strong judgements on the Pharisees and the chief Priests? There is a place to say something is wrong, just as you have stated it's wrong to claim to be a Christian and then live without morals.

As for anti-gay, I don't know how you view the Bible, but in Romans 1:27 it clearly states homosexuality is an error. For believers of the Bible to state this does not make them judgemental.

I guess you have to be a believer in the Bible to agree with Romans 1:27. But prostitution is illegal, and Jesus was able to spare her life.

Why did he cast sellers from the temple? It seems to me that there are times when Jesus took a stand, and yet there is nothing in the Bible that relates Jesus directly with the subject of homosexuality.

Still carrying that gay cross oddman? You feeling oppressed again...poor guy/girl/shemale?

Oddman · June 19, 2006

I'm a straight male, thanks for being mature about the debate.

Leader Circle · June 20, 2006

I'm a straight male, thanks for being mature about the debate.

Well for being a straight male, you certainly carry that burden for the whole gay community!

Oddman · June 20, 2006

I am for equal rights Leader CIrcle, that's all.

sharkman · June 20, 2006

The discussion is drifting, but I agree with the earlier posts that pointed out that Harper's statement is non-denominational, and would be welcomed by practicing people of most faiths.
The idea that Harper is GWB's idealogical twin is such a lazy argument. The CPC is to the left of the Democrats on many issues, social-wise. I think that it's a shame that such an innocuous and positive statement would be the subject of so much debate. We seem to spend more time arguing symbols and signifiers than actual policy.

Well said, and an earlier post included results to a poll saying 65% of Canadians find nothing wrong with Harper using the phrase under question. Actual policy deserves scruntiny, but this?

Oddman · June 20, 2006

I think those who have a problem with Harper invoking God in his speeches do so because his background gives the impression that he is trying to push a religious view/agenda. It is a microcosmic example of how the beginning of a polarized nation may soon exist.

betsy · June 20, 2006

Being anti-gay is not a forgiving way of living one's life.

Being a true Christian in every sense of the word is a tremenduous struggle to achieve, for it is so easy to stray from the straight and narrow. No one is perfect. We all sin.

When we want to suit our own needs, and have things go the way we want to, or the way we think they should....do we invoke His name and His teachings to contradict His own?

Do we assume that God changes with the times? That His book's interpretation ought to follow political correctness? Modernization?

Believing that homosexuality is un-natural and forbidden (the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha is one referral to that), is merely believing in and following the teachings of our faith. It is the act. Not the person.

We all have our own crosses to bear...our own trials in life.

But it is not for any of us to forgive. It is God's.

sharkman · June 20, 2006

I think those who have a problem with Harper invoking God in his speeches do so because his background gives the impression that he is trying to push a religious view/agenda. It is a microcosmic example of how the beginning of a polarized nation may soon exist.

I can see your point, but after over a decade of pushing an anti-religion stance under the Liberals, some small steps the other way do not begin to compare. If in 10 years, we have the same gov, I could understand concern, but not now.

newbie · June 20, 2006

I'm still waiting for Harper to say, "I love Canada."

Oddman · June 20, 2006

I can see your point, but after over a decade of pushing an anti-religion stance under the Liberals, some small steps the other way do not begin to compare. If in 10 years, we have the same gov, I could understand concern, but not now.

How did the Liberals push anti-religion? Was it really anti-religion, or was it that they promoted social issues that did not jive with Christianity? It seems to me there is a huge difference.

August1991 · June 20, 2006

I'm still waiting for Harper to say, "I love Canada."

Did he ever say he hated Canada?

(I think this is called a false dichotomy.)

sharkman · June 20, 2006

I can see your point, but after over a decade of pushing an anti-religion stance under the Liberals, some small steps the other way do not begin to compare. If in 10 years, we have the same gov, I could understand concern, but not now.

How did the Liberals push anti-religion? Was it really anti-religion, or was it that they promoted social issues that did not jive with Christianity? It seems to me there is a huge difference.

However you want to define it, the CPC is moving in a more traditional family/sensitive to religion direction than the Liberals were. Again, after 12 years of one direction from the Liberals, it would take a very long time to negate that with going in the opposite direction. Surely, at least you can understand what I'm saying.

Leader Circle · June 20, 2006

Being anti-gay is not a forgiving way of living one's life.

Being a true Christian in every sense of the word is a tremenduous struggle to achieve, for it is so easy to stray from the straight and narrow. No one is perfect. We all sin.

When we want to suit our own needs, and have things go the way we want to, or the way we think they should....do we invoke His name and His teachings to contradict His own?

Do we assume that God changes with the times? That His book's interpretation ought to follow political correctness? Modernization?

Believing that homosexuality is un-natural and forbidden (the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha is one referral to that), is merely believing in and following the teachings of our faith. It is the act. Not the person.

We all have our own crosses to bear...our own trials in life.

But it is not for any of us to forgive. It is God's.

Well put betsy, you said it better than I could imagine.

Thank you

I doubt anyone will argue with you here.

Oddman · June 20, 2006

SHarkman,

I do see where you are coming from, but I do not believe that any political party should cater to a religious point of view. In a multi cultural society how do we sustain ourselves if we cater to just one religion? And before you cite that Canada is traditionally a Christian country, I suggest you consult with Natives to see what their religious beliefs are. Either that, or lobby the CPC to revoke the religious priveledges of new immigrants because in 50 years we may see Christianity is on par with another religion.

Then what?

newbie · June 20, 2006

But it is not for any of us to forgive. It is God's.

I don't want to get into a scriptural argument, but these are Jesus' words.

For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses neither will your father forgive your trespasses. Matthew 6:14-15

If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him; and if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times saying ‘I repent’, forgive him. Luke 17:3-4

So also my heavenly Father will do to you if you do not forgive your brother from your heart. Matthew 18:35

Oddman · June 20, 2006

OK, I am not religious at all, but I can guarantee there are hardly any homosexuals who are asking for forgiveness for being who they are.

So I therefore do not see why you would cite a passage that deals with a sinner repenting...just my two cents.

Riverwind · June 20, 2006

I doubt anyone will argue with you here.

Christians are hardly unified on correct the interpretation of the cryptic text in the Bible. Many of the rules and prohibitions were intended for semi-nomadic tribes of sheep headers living 4000 years ago and cannot practically be followed today.

newbie · June 20, 2006

I'm still waiting for Harper to say, "I love Canada."
Did he ever say he hated Canada?
(I think this is called a false dichotomy.)

I think you remember when a reporter asked Harper the question during the campaign. All he had to say was "Yes."

newbie · June 20, 2006

OK, I am not religious at all, but I can guarantee there are hardly any homosexuals who are asking for forgiveness for being who they are.
So I therefore do not see why you would cite a passage that deals with a sinner repenting...just my two cents.

I'm only addressing Betsy's comment in that post.

Oddman · June 20, 2006

Didn't Betsy refer to homosexuality in her post? If so, when did any homosexuals repent? I think we believe the same thing, only I do not see how any homosexuals have repented...