Fluffypants Posted April 16 Report Posted April 16 (edited) It will cost 30 million dollars and 3 years to open a 9000 square foot grocery store on land the city owns in an area where there are a ton of other grocery stores. Large grocery stores cost 10 million to build. I have seen them build a giant Walmart from the ground up in 6 months. This is government bloat in action. https://nypost.com/2026/04/14/us-news/zohran-mamdanis-city-owned-grocery-stores-will-only-guarantee-lower-prices-for-a-core-basket-of-goods/ Edited April 16 by Fluffypants 1 Quote
Barquentine Posted April 16 Report Posted April 16 12 hours ago, Fluffypants said: This is government bloat in action. In itself it won't be profitable and may not last. But if causes the private stores to lower their prices it will be worth it. Don't know about the US but in Canada the major chains price-gouge and keep getting caught colluding and cheating customers. Quote
Hodad Posted April 16 Report Posted April 16 1 hour ago, Barquentine said: In itself it won't be profitable and may not last. But if causes the private stores to lower their prices it will be worth it. Don't know about the US but in Canada the major chains price-gouge and keep getting caught colluding and cheating customers. Grocery retail is a notoriously low margin industry. Prices in NYC aren't because of gouging, but rather natural economic incentives and conditions. National (and international) chains have great buying power and can make their money on high volume, low margin. But local and local-ish stores don't have that same kind of buying power, and that creates a couple of problems. 1. Smaller neighborhood stores can't compete on price with the big stores. The big stores draw customers based on price. The local stores have to raise prices to stay open with fewer customers--rinse repeat. (It's a death spiral.) 2. The big stores can't/won't open multiple locations too close together, so gaps appear in the supply. We end up, in some instances, with "food deserts." The Mamdani plan won't accomplish anything positive if they plop a city store across from a Wegmans. There just isn't much margin to pressure. But it could address issues of access and availability by filling in the gaps with prices more like the big stores. The consequence of that though will be smaller, higher priced private stores will likely suffer and close. That's not necessarily great either. The need is real, but I think there are probably better ways to address it. Quote
Deluge Posted April 16 Report Posted April 16 14 hours ago, Fluffypants said: It will cost 30 million dollars and 3 years to open a 9000 square foot grocery store on land the city owns in an area where there are a ton of other grocery stores. Large grocery stores cost 10 million to build. I have seen them build a giant Walmart from the ground up in 6 months. This is government bloat in action. https://nypost.com/2026/04/14/us-news/zohran-mamdanis-city-owned-grocery-stores-will-only-guarantee-lower-prices-for-a-core-basket-of-goods/ Leftoids think communist dictatorships are the apex of civilized society. Quote
User Posted April 16 Report Posted April 16 People on the left continue to act like the market is some big evil force and that those big evil stores put all the small ones out of business and now the poor people have no fresh fruits or produce. The reality is that the market serves demand. There is no demand in these so-called food deserts. If all the people in these food deserts really wanted fresh fruits and produce, there would be people down there in a hearbeat standing on the corners selling it from the back of their carts until a local store popped up to offer it to them. The reality is that we are a far more mobile society, online orders, fast food, junk food, convienence food eating people and the reason there is no grocery store on the street corner anymore is because no one would buy anything in it. The fresh produce would rot. So, we have convenience stores that sell packaged foods. The stuff people want and buy. The people who want more hop on public transit or get in their cars and leave the food desert to go get it themselves. Quote
robosmith Posted April 16 Report Posted April 16 17 hours ago, Fluffypants said: It will cost 30 million dollars and 3 years to open a 9000 square foot grocery store on land the city owns in an area where there are a ton of other grocery stores. Large grocery stores cost 10 million to build. I have seen them build a giant Walmart from the ground up in 6 months. This is government bloat in action. https://nypost.com/2026/04/14/us-news/zohran-mamdanis-city-owned-grocery-stores-will-only-guarantee-lower-prices-for-a-core-basket-of-goods/ It's NOT "bloat" if it solves a real problem. What is YOUR BETTER solution? Here we have multiple Aldi which is half the size of a major grocery store and has prices 10-20% less. NYC could build those in few months. Or make a deal with Aldi. Quote
herbie Posted April 16 Report Posted April 16 A city run grocery store is such an awful idea, it is being considered by plenty of cities in many countries. Maybe ask Loblaws to open there and price fix, short weigh and mislabel products as made in USA. Quote
Fluffypants Posted April 17 Author Report Posted April 17 (edited) 8 hours ago, robosmith said: It's NOT "bloat" if it solves a real problem. What is YOUR BETTER solution? Here we have multiple Aldi which is half the size of a major grocery store and has prices 10-20% less. NYC could build those in few months. Or make a deal with Aldi. Did you read the article at all? It's going to take them 3 years to build the first of these and cost 3xs what they would cost anyone else in an area that is not a food desert, there is literally a full service grocery store 1 block away. If they put it in a food desert it will fail due to theft like every single one of these built does. Its has been tried and has failed over and over again. The lower prices wont be as much as you think. Edited April 17 by Fluffypants Quote
User Posted April 17 Report Posted April 17 8 hours ago, robosmith said: It's NOT "bloat" if it solves a real problem. What is YOUR BETTER solution? Here we have multiple Aldi which is half the size of a major grocery store and has prices 10-20% less. NYC could build those in few months. Or make a deal with Aldi. Speaking of your quest for logic... Something can solve a problem and still be bloat. Bloat is excessive, wasteful, and inefficient. You can do all those things - build a grocery store that is excessively expensive, wasteful in spending, and not efficient and still end up with a grocery store "solving" the alleged "real" problem of not having a grocery store. Quote
robosmith Posted April 17 Report Posted April 17 4 hours ago, Fluffypants said: Did you read the article at all? It's going to take them 3 years to build the first of these and cost 3xs what they would cost anyone else in an area that is not a food desert, there is literally a full service grocery store 1 block away. If they put it in a food desert it will fail due to theft like every single one of these built does. Its has been tried and has failed over and over again. The lower prices wont be as much as you think. Really? Then how does Aldi do it? You've FAILED to answer my QUESTION, because you have NONE. 12 hours ago, robosmith said: It's NOT "bloat" if it solves a real problem. What is YOUR BETTER solution? Here we have multiple Aldi which is half the size of a major grocery store and has prices 10-20% less. NYC could build those in few months. Or make a deal with Aldi. Quote
User Posted April 17 Report Posted April 17 2 hours ago, robosmith said: Really? Then how does Aldi do it? You've FAILED to answer my QUESTION, because you have NONE. What a stupid point. If Aldi does it... Why is NYC building a government-run grocery store? Yes, of course Aldi does it... in some locations. They also serve a more niche client base that is focused on discount shopping for a very select range of products that Aldi buys cheaply in bulk. Quote
Nationalist Posted April 17 Report Posted April 17 My wife likes to shop at Food Basics for cheaper products. I go along with her for things like breakfast cereals and packaged stuff. But if im looking for meat or produce, I go to one of the more expensive stores 'cause I find the quality is better. Mucking with the markets the way Mamdani wants, will not produce good results. It'll produce stores filled with low quality products and out dated cans of Ravioli. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Fluffypants Posted April 17 Author Report Posted April 17 7 hours ago, robosmith said: Really? Then how does Aldi do it? You've FAILED to answer my QUESTION, because you have NONE. You want a real solution? Start prosecuting criminals, all the places with these problems have one thing in common high crime and prosecutors unwilling to do their jobs and/or laws that essentially make shoplifting damn near legal. Quote
Barquentine Posted April 17 Report Posted April 17 On 4/16/2026 at 11:20 AM, Hodad said: Smaller neighborhood stores can't compete on price with the big stores. Except these would be non-profit stores, likely losing money. Here in Canada the 2 major store's prices rose far beyond inflation, with some items we often bought rising by as much as 100% in 2 or 3 years. Quote
Barquentine Posted April 17 Report Posted April 17 57 minutes ago, Nationalist said: But if im looking for meat or produce, I go to one of the more expensive stores 'cause I find the quality is better. You're lucky you can do that. A lot of people can't afford to. Whenever I go into our Loblaws early in the morning, there are always a lot of seniors in the bakery and meat sections buying the 50% off products because that's all they can afford. Quote
Hodad Posted April 17 Report Posted April 17 3 minutes ago, Barquentine said: Except these would be non-profit stores, likely losing money. Here in Canada the 2 major store's prices rose far beyond inflation, with some items we often bought rising by as much as 100% in 2 or 3 years. Grocery is typically estimated at a 1-3% margin. Everything is made on volume. A 1-3% savings isn't going to change anyone's life. If they are subsidizing prices, that's a different story, but I haven't seen that discussed. Quote
Deluge Posted April 17 Report Posted April 17 21 hours ago, robosmith said: It's NOT "bloat" if it solves a real problem. What is YOUR BETTER solution? Here we have multiple Aldi which is half the size of a major grocery store and has prices 10-20% less. NYC could build those in few months. Or make a deal with Aldi. The first step in the solution is to get government OUT of the grocery store business. They have no business being in business. Government's job is to protect our rights, not take over the private sector. The next step is to let competition thrive. The stores with the best deals gets the business. that's how it should be. After that it's an all out war for consumer dollars. Quote
Barquentine Posted April 17 Report Posted April 17 34 minutes ago, Deluge said: The next step is to let competition thrive. The stores with the best deals gets the business. that's how it should be. If only that actually worked. Price fixing, collusion, monopolies, scale... Quote
Deluge Posted April 17 Report Posted April 17 38 minutes ago, Barquentine said: If only that actually worked. Price fixing, collusion, monopolies, scale... Yup, it's a f*cking mess, alright. But it's still better than communists taking over the private sector. Quote
robosmith Posted April 17 Report Posted April 17 3 hours ago, Fluffypants said: You want a real solution? Start prosecuting criminals, all the places with these problems have one thing in common high crime and prosecutors unwilling to do their jobs and/or laws that essentially make shoplifting damn near legal. Too bad you have ZERO EVIDIDENCE for ^this BULLSHIT. Quote
User Posted April 17 Report Posted April 17 46 minutes ago, robosmith said: Too bad you have ZERO EVIDIDENCE for ^this BULLSHIT. More of your logical debate… Quote
Fluffypants Posted April 18 Author Report Posted April 18 (edited) 20 hours ago, robosmith said: Too bad you have ZERO EVIDIDENCE for ^this BULLSHIT. https://www.kcur.org/news/2025-08-12/kansas-city-grocery-store-sun-fresh-closed-despite-18-million-city-investments-food-desert https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/city-owned-missouri-grocery-store-closes-mamdani-campaigns-some-new-york Edited April 18 by Fluffypants 1 Quote
robosmith Posted April 19 Report Posted April 19 12 hours ago, Fluffypants said: https://www.kcur.org/news/2025-08-12/kansas-city-grocery-store-sun-fresh-closed-despite-18-million-city-investments-food-desert https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/city-owned-missouri-grocery-store-closes-mamdani-campaigns-some-new-york Meanwhile Aldi keeps expanding in San Diego. Last year they opened a new store 2 blocks from my house despite the fact that there is another store just 3 miles away. I'll bet they could make a go of it in NYC with a subsidy from the city. Quote
Fluffypants Posted April 19 Author Report Posted April 19 11 hours ago, robosmith said: Meanwhile Aldi keeps expanding in San Diego. Last year they opened a new store 2 blocks from my house despite the fact that there is another store just 3 miles away. I'll bet they could make a go of it in NYC with a subsidy from the city. There are Aldi's in NYC. Aldi's is cheaper because its mostly generic products and you have to bring your own bags. 1 Quote
robosmith Posted April 19 Report Posted April 19 6 hours ago, Fluffypants said: There are Aldi's in NYC. Aldi's is cheaper because its mostly generic products and you have to bring your own bags. Not here. They sell reusable bags just like EVERYONE ELSE. They are also cheaper when there's a Walmart in the area. They are cheaper because they have their own brands and don't offer rainchecks. AKA stock is unreliable. But the FACT is, they are 10-20% cheaper than major grocery stores because their staff is not unionized. Quote
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