robosmith Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 The Political Logic of Trump's Violent Lawlessness Quote The moral horror wrought by president trump’s second administration is incontrovertible. the killing of Alex pretti, a 37year-old intensive care unit nurse and US citizen, by border patrol agents in minneapolis was recorded from all angles by brave observers and seen by people around the world. it follows the public killing earlier this month of Renee Nicole good, a 37-year-old minneapolis mother and fellow US citizen, and an untold number of unseen deaths and disappearances in American detention centers like “Alligator Alcatraz.” given this, the radical has become the pragmatic. trump, and everyone else responsible for these outrages, should be impeached and convicted. immigration and customs Enforcement should be disbanded, as should its parent agency, the Department of homeland Security. And the people who have killed — both publicly and privately — should be investigated and hauled before judges and juries. but the logic of the killings is as important as the killings themselves. while a truth in itself, the moral horror is also a sign of the administration’s lies and lawlessness, a political logic known from 20th-century Soviet and Nazi totalitarian regimes and from attempts to replace the rule of law with personal tyranny. in a constitutional republic like the United States, the law applies everywhere, at all times, to everyone. for that logic of law to be undone, the aspiring tyrant looks for cracks in the system that can be pried open. One of these cracks is the border, where the country ends. because the law ends there, too, an obvious move for the tyrant is to turn the whole country into a border, where no rules apply. Soviet leader Joseph Stalin did this in the 1930s, with border zones and deportations preceding the great terror. Adolf hitler did it, too, in 1938 germany, with immigration raids that targeted undocumented Jews and forced them to flee the country. trump, by his own admission and that of his cabinet members, is following the same playbook. he is using ice, nominally a border authority, to enforce his own whims on a US state of his choosing — a Democratic party stronghold with deep-rooted civic idealism. it is not legal to attack a city over its politics, or to flood its streets with federal agents to gain information about a state’s voters in exchange for withdrawing ice agents. the border becomes the pretext to undo the law everywhere, at all times, and against anyone. it is the crack that can be opened. the wedge is constructed with lies, which begin as cliches and memes that the government pounds into our heads, and which the media repeat, mindlessly or with malice. One of these cliches is “law enforcement,” which is uttered over and over like an incantation. “Law enforcement” is not a noun like “table” or “house”; it is not a fixed thing. it is an action, a process that Americans have a right to see and judge for themselves. people enforcing the law do not wear masks, nor do they trespass, assault, batter, and kill at will. public killings carried out by trump’s goons do a great disservice to the local, state, and federal authorities whose job is to police effectively, particularly when such state terror is defined as “law enforcement.” the lies continue as provocative inversions, or what i called “dangerous words” in my book “On tyranny.” in this case, the trump administration is using “terrorist” and “extremist” — terms long favored by tyrants — to defame those killed by their policies. their “messaging” reflects what hannah Arendt called “the banality of evil” — or, as Václav havel put it, the evil of banality. words turn into reality with the collaboration of those who hear them. in this sense, those who actively lie are complicit in the killings in minnesota and any more to come. but those in the media who choose to treat propaganda as the story, who begin from lies rather than from events, are also complicit. the border is the crack, the lies are the wedge, and the people who accept those lies are opening it wider. words matter, whether uttered first or repeated. they create an atmosphere, they normalize — or they do not. we must choose to see, to call things by their proper names, to condemn people who lie. behind the moral horror of these public killings is a political logic. those who resist the trump administration’s lawlessness and the lies understand this. in minneapolis and many other places, they are doing right — and giving the endangered American republic its best chance of survival. 2 1 1 Quote
Hodad Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 Article is spot on. The terror isn't an accident, it's the objective. Trump is following the playbook, and his cultists will follow him anywhere. Fortunately, Trump is driven by ego rather than true idealism. That may be our salvation. He won't change course because his actions are evil, but he might be persuaded if they make him more unpopular. That's a chance we wouldn't have with a true believer. 2 1 1 Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 Eventually the furnace... That is stoked by anger will grow cold.. How does having federal police shoot protesters in Minnesota help the USA? MAGA supporters might be asking themselves that now. Trump's polling is really about the worst of his one year in office at this point. He's trying everything. Even invading countries, firing his minions.. Nothing is getting better. 1 1 Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
John Stone Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 Fear is the greatest of motivators. To be powerful - a need to demonstrate power is essential.................. The age of Liberal-democracy is over ............ or soon will be ..... maybe it was all a facade - a system of norms - not laws. When a well known dictator was told that the Pope opposed him? Well known dictator reply, 'how many Divisions can the Pope field"? What power does SCOTUS have? What enforcement - really any court? It's a house of cards ready to be kicked over. Quote
gatomontes99 Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 5 hours ago, robosmith said: The Political Logic of Trump's Violent Lawlessness 1. You are violating fair use with this post. 2 wtf is the conversation here? Quote Don't you think that if I were wrong that I would know it?
User Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: Eventually the furnace... That is stoked by anger will grow cold.. How does having federal police shoot protesters in Minnesota help the USA? MAGA supporters might be asking themselves that now. Trump's polling is really about the worst of his one year in office at this point. He's trying everything. Even invading countries, firing his minions.. Nothing is getting better. No one is having federal police shoot protestors. This statement is so absurdly broad and woefully lacking any substance. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 1 minute ago, User said: No one is having federal police shoot protestors. This statement is so absurdly broad and woefully lacking any substance. I didn't put it on a person... that's what happened. Maybe you don't want to acknowledge that, not sure. 2 hours ago, John Stone said: The age of Liberal-democracy is over ............ or soon will be ..... Based on ? A stumbling dictator-to-be who can't assemble a team smart enough to get around the existing framework ? He's highly unpopular. I would say, at a minimum, the jury is out on liberal-democracy's next act. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Legato Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: Eventually the furnace... That is stoked by anger will grow cold.. How does having federal police shoot protesters in Minnesota help the USA? MAGA supporters might be asking themselves that now. Trump's polling is really about the worst of his one year in office at this point. He's trying everything. Even invading countries, firing his minions.. Nothing is getting better. How does having paid protestors use violence to obstruct government officials in the execution of their duty help Minnesota and the USA? How come we don't see the same violent protests in other states where ICE is doing the exact same job. Your selective outrage is noted. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 1 minute ago, Legato said: 1. How does having paid protestors use violence to obstruct government officials in the execution of their duty help Minnesota and the USA? 2. How come we don't see the same violent protests in other states where ICE is doing the exact same job. 3. Your selective outrage is noted. 1. Disparaging the protesters in this way and moving the spotlight... sure, go ahead. It won't matter. 2. Has ICE been killing people ? I haven't heard of it. I would say that's why. 3. I'm not outraged, I am just sad that it has come to this. The damage of this movement has gone beyond the public sphere, relationships, families and so on... it's actually damaged the epistemic integrity of language and logic. Maybe it's not surprising... big Revolutions try to do this... the French Revolution changed the names of months and Romania changed how winter temperatures were announced. Reality tends to win out though, and that is doom for current Democrats and Republicans IMO. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
User Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 41 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: I didn't put it on a person... that's what happened. Maybe you don't want to acknowledge that, not sure. No, that is not what happened. Your statement is so comically absurdly lacking any substance or specifics, it would be just as true for me to say your country is having people shot. I mean, there are police shootings in your country, right? So Canada is having people shot! 9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 2. Has ICE been killing people ? I haven't heard of it. I would say that's why. ICE had not "been killing" people in Minneapolis before the agitators showed up to obstruct them... So, why would you say that is why? Quote
Legato Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. Disparaging the protesters in this way and moving the spotlight... sure, go ahead. It won't matter. 2. Has ICE been killing people ? I haven't heard of it. I would say that's why. 3. I'm not outraged, I am just sad that it has come to this. The damage of this movement has gone beyond the public sphere, relationships, families and so on... it's actually damaged the epistemic integrity of language and logic. Maybe it's not surprising... big Revolutions try to do this... the French Revolution changed the names of months and Romania changed how winter temperatures were announced. Reality tends to win out though, and that is doom for current Democrats and Republicans IMO. Disparaging violent protest ???? You trying to imply they're not violent? Wake up and smell the roses. Nice failed attempt as sidestepping, everyone knows why, except you it seems Of course you are outraged it's embedded in your DNA. Hence the long drift into some nonsensical word salad. You're using the an incorrect caliber for the bullet pionts. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 8 minutes ago, User said: 1. No, that is not what happened. 2. Your statement is so comically absurdly lacking any substance or specifics, it would be just as true for me to say your country is having people shot. 3. I mean, there are police shootings in your country, right? So Canada is having people shot! 1. Police shot 2 protesters. That's the end. Whatever kind of garland you want to put on it doesn't change the facts and facts don't care about your feelings. 2. You go into the tickle truck to haul our your bag of semantic costumes... go ahead. I will read it and give you a LIKE for your troubles, so be sure to make it very long 3. Yes and people tend to get upset about that kind of thing, especially if they perceive a pattern. Politics is perception. Go read the polls on this, and explain why Trump himself is switching the deck chairs on the boat... Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
User Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 Just now, Michael Hardner said: 1. Police shot 2 protesters. That's the end. Whatever kind of garland you want to put on it doesn't change the facts and facts don't care about your feelings. Me putting garland on it? YOU were the one who made no effort to provide any substance to make it sound as if the federal government were just having protestors shot. I am the one demanding facts from you here, you are not interested in them. Even now, you want to only say police shot 2 protestors. They were not "protesting" when they were shot and that is not why they were shot. 2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Politics is perception. Go read the polls on this, and explain why Trump himself is switching the deck chairs on the boat... Except, you are knowingly and willfully engaged in distorting the perception here, you are not merely commenting on it. 1 Quote
robosmith Posted January 29 Author Report Posted January 29 1 hour ago, Legato said: How does having paid protestors use violence to obstruct government officials in the execution of their duty help Minnesota and the USA? How come we don't see the same violent protests in other states where ICE is doing the exact same job. Your selective outrage is noted. You posting ^these fantasies here doesn't help anyone but Trump's ambitions. 1 Quote
robosmith Posted January 29 Author Report Posted January 29 56 minutes ago, Legato said: Disparaging violent protest ???? You trying to imply they're not violent? Wake up and smell the roses. Post the roses here. Your opinions don't matter. 56 minutes ago, Legato said: Nice failed attempt as sidestepping, everyone knows why, except you it seems Everyone knows why you don't post EVIDENCE, CLOWN. 56 minutes ago, Legato said: Of course you are outraged it's embedded in your DNA. Hence the long drift into some nonsensical word salad. Denialism of reality and "jokes" which are not funny is embedded in your DNA. 56 minutes ago, Legato said: You're using the an incorrect caliber for the bullet pionts. You spelled "points" wrong. Quote
Legato Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 1 minute ago, robosmith said: You posting ^these fantasies here doesn't help anyone but Trump's ambitions. My my, more eye's wide shut nonsense generated by the illogical pressure of stage 4 TDS. Do tell us Oh Great Enlightened One why other states are not seeing the same level of violence. Quote
Deluge Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 9 hours ago, robosmith said: The Political Logic of Trump's Violent Lawlessness robocult worships in opposite world: crime is justice, illegal immigration is legal immigration, trannies NOT sexualizing kids is evil and should be a felony, etc.. Quote
gatomontes99 Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 I clicked on it and Holly castrated cow is it bad. Even basic capitalization was not followed. This clearly is not the work of a professional. It is not even the work of a respectable adult. What a joke. 1 Quote Don't you think that if I were wrong that I would know it?
Legato Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 3 minutes ago, robosmith said: Post the roses here. Your opinions don't matter. Everyone knows why you don't post EVIDENCE, CLOWN. Denialism of reality and "jokes" which are not funny is embedded in your DNA. You spelled "points" wrong. Again what a terrible display of nonsensical blubbering. Try some maple syrup on your pacifier. Wot piont are you triing to make ear. 1 Quote
robosmith Posted January 29 Author Report Posted January 29 51 minutes ago, Legato said: My my, more eye's wide shut nonsense generated by the illogical pressure of stage 4 TDS. Do tell us Oh Great Enlightened One why other states are not seeing the same level of violence. Do tell us CLOWN, that you completely missed where Trump said he would train his GOONS in blue cities. WATCH: Trump suggests using U.S. cities as 'training grounds ... YouTube · PBS NewsHour Sep 30, 2025 YouTube · PBS NewsHour 7:22 I told Pete we should use some of these dangerous cities as training grounds for our military National Guard but military. 52 minutes ago, Legato said: Again what a terrible display of nonsensical blubbering. Try some maple syrup on your pacifier. Wot piont are you triing to make ear. That you are NOTHING but a CLOWN. Thanks for proving that. Quote
Goddess Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 5 hours ago, gatomontes99 said: 1. You are violating fair use with this post. 2 wtf is the conversation here? I don't understand why this person has to start like 8 topics on the same thing. It's better to keep discussions on the same thread and let them evolve on their own. It's easier to go back and read, too. Quote "There are two different types of people in the world - those who want to know and those who want to believe." ~~ Friedrich Nietzsche ~~
robosmith Posted January 29 Author Report Posted January 29 36 minutes ago, Goddess said: I don't understand why this person has to start like 8 topics on the same thing. Do you need someone to explain the differences to you? 36 minutes ago, Goddess said: It's better to keep discussions on the same thread and let them evolve on their own. It's easier to go back and read, too. Some thread OPs are so important they need their own thread to avoid getting lost. 1 Quote
Goddess Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 1 minute ago, robosmith said: Do you need someone to explain the differences to you? More like nuances. It could all be kept on the same thread. 2 minutes ago, robosmith said: Some thread OPs are so important they need their own thread to avoid getting lost. 1 1 Quote "There are two different types of people in the world - those who want to know and those who want to believe." ~~ Friedrich Nietzsche ~~
John Stone Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: I didn't put it on a person... that's what happened. Maybe you don't want to acknowledge that, not sure. Based on ? A stumbling dictator-to-be who can't assemble a team smart enough to get around the existing framework ? He's highly unpopular. I would say, at a minimum, the jury is out on liberal-democracy's next act. .......... the intrigue re: SCOTUS ruling on Trump's tariffs is building. Ya think Does he have the chutzpah to ignore a ruling? If not I'm sure he has a Plan B If not, by ignoring the ruling the demise of the Constitution is greatly NOT exaggerated. Quote
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