Canadian First Nations financial Data

[eyeball]

15 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

At the end of the day there are some things that even the left and the right can agree on in principle even if they don't always agree on the best solution

No, there is no at the end of the day.  

No one is getting out of this alive. Not now, its way way too late for that.

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No, there is no at the end of the day.  

 

Of course there's an end of the day. What did you think night time was? Do you think you just go blind for 12 hours a day? LOL

Quote

No one is getting out of this alive. Not now, its way way too late for that.

Dude, i've told you before how to work those chinese finger traps, just bring your fingers closer together.  Yeash, you're such a drama queen. 

[Moonbox]

46 minutes ago, eyeball said:

We need to set a better example by demanding more transparency and going after our own governments first.  

This is a non-sequitur. An ill-defined level of transparency from the federal government is not a pre-requisite for transparency from the First Nations chieftains towards their members.  If anything, transparency should be much easier to achieve.  The scope and the scale is far smaller, more tangible and thus easier to digest, and the people in charge are local(ish).

Regardless, federal, provincial and even municipal finances are generally already head and shoulders more transparent than what we see from a lot of the First Nations bands.  There are certainly lots of issues in terms of transparency and accountability, but let's not pretend we're even in the same ballpark here.  Nobody has to sue the federal government to get basic financial records.  

[eyeball]

33 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

An ill-defined level of transparency from the federal government is not a pre-requisite for transparency from the First Nations chieftains towards their members

I was simply hoping for greater willingness of Canadian non-natives to demand it, the last thing I expect is some promise from the government to deliver it because its the right thing to do.

35 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

If anything, transparency should be much easier to achieve.  The scope and the scale is far smaller, more tangible and thus easier to digest, and the people in charge are local(ish).

You would think so but you're perhaps discounting the efforts Ottawa puts into keeping natives divided on one level and how much that unites them on another.

38 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Regardless, federal, provincial and even municipal finances are generally already head and shoulders more transparent than what we see from a lot of the First Nations bands.  There are certainly lots of issues in terms of transparency and accountability, but let's not pretend we're even in the same ballpark here.  Nobody has to sue the federal government to get basic financial records.

Let's also not pretend how much perception exists of widespread corruption and how toxic that perception is in terms of public trust.  I honestly don't think corruption is as bad as its said to be and like I said the main goal of greater transparency now is to save our system from collapsing under the weight of profound mistrust bearing down on it.

There is a direct line from that mistrust to conspiracy theories that border on psychosis.  It's only getting worse and I fail to see how our system of governance can survive long under such conditions.  The only cure is...a level of transparency that would make Orwell blush.

Personally I think it's too late because so much has been left to fester for far too long.

[Moonbox]

16 hours ago, eyeball said:

I was simply hoping for greater willingness of Canadian non-natives to demand it, the last thing I expect is some promise from the government to deliver it because its the right thing to do.

Well they're already getting accountability and transparency galaxies ahead of what many of the First Nations members  are from their leadership, so the relevance of your point is questionable.  

The absurdity of refusing to provide even basic accounting of tax dollars spent cannot be understated.  Even worse is the fact that many of these First Nations need to be sued by their membership to enforce this disclosure.  That suggests tin-pot dictator levels of corruption.  

 

[Nationalist]

On 1/5/2026 at 5:22 PM, eyeball said:

This is how human governance rolls everywhere, all the time.

A better preamble to our Constitution would have been;

God, grant us the serenity to accept the things we cannot change, courage to change the things we can, and the wisdom to realize there's probably fùck all we can do after all.

Says the limp Libbie.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Well they're already getting accountability and transparency galaxies ahead of what many of the First Nations members  are from their leadership, so the relevance of your point is questionable.

I think it's safe to say we're at least worlds apart on what constitutes accountability and transparency.

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

The absurdity of refusing to provide even basic accounting of tax dollars spent cannot be understated.  Even worse is the fact that many of these First Nations need to be sued by their membership to enforce this disclosure.  That suggests tin-pot dictator levels of corruption.

At least they're trying to do something. We should take a cue. I'm not surprised there's tin-pot dictator levels of corruption in Canada given the white-collar levels that exist.

[Moonbox]

28 minutes ago, eyeball said:

At least they're trying to do something. We should take a cue. I'm not surprised there's tin-pot dictator levels of corruption in Canada given the white-collar levels that exist.

Yes, it's good they're trying to do something.  Points for that.  Finally acknowledging and pushing back against the absolute absurdity that their leadership wasn't required to even go through the pretense of financial transparency and accountability is a really noteworthy step we should all take a cue from.  🙄

Except, haven't we always required our governments to provide financial records, and don't we already have the RCMP investigating and trying to catch white-collar criminals?  

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Yes, it's good they're trying to do something.  Points for that.  Finally acknowledging and pushing back against the absolute absurdity that their leadership wasn't required to even go through the pretense of financial transparency and accountability is a really noteworthy step we should all take a cue from.  🙄

It's odd how this disdain for greater transparency in our systems of governance is also common amongst posters who are convinced corruption is rampant. 

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Except, haven't we always required our governments to provide financial records, and don't we already have the RCMP investigating and trying to catch white-collar criminals?

And yet the perception that even institutions like the CBC are routinely used to help interfere in investigations continues to grow while fuelling a deep public mistrust in government.

It's kind of surreal actually.

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

It's odd how this disdain for greater transparency in our systems of governance is also common amongst posters who are convinced corruption is rampant. 

 

Like yourself?

You're extremely tolerant of corruption that you are aware is occurring and for some reason think harper should be responsible for

There's no point to transparency if you're going to keep voting for them when they're caught doing bad things

[Zeitgeist]

On 1/2/2026 at 1:04 PM, ironstone said:

Pierre Trudeau and Jean Chretien had proposed 'The White Paper' back in 1969.

"The 1969 White Paper (officially entitled Statement of the Government of Canada on Indian Policy) was a policy paper proposal set forth by the Government of Canada related to First Nations. Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau and his Minister of Indian Affairs, Jean Chrétien, issued the paper in 1969. The White Paper proposed to abolish all legal documents that had previously existed, including (but not limited to) the Indian Act, and all existing treaties within Canada, comprising Canadian Aboriginal law. It proposed to assimilate First Nations as an ethnic group equal to other Canadian citizens. The White Paper was met with widespread criticism and activism, causing the proposal to be officially withdrawn in 1970.

The White Paper proposed legislation to eliminate Indian status. Indigenous people would be granted full rights as citizens instead of being regarded as wards of the state. First Nations Peoples would be incorporated fully into provincial government responsibilities as equal Canadian citizens, and reserve status would be removed; laws of private property would be imposed in Indigenous communities. Any special programs or considerations that had been allowed to First Nations people under previous legislation would be terminated. The Government believed that such special considerations acted to separate Indian peoples from other Canadian citizens."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_White_Paper

Just imagine how things might be today if they didn't back down with this more sensible proposal.

 

The implementation of this would’ve turned Indigenous from renters into owners and provided the kind of accountability that goes with enfranchisement.  Instead, the activists chose continued dependency.  Why take pride in anything if others are paying for its upkeep and you don’t have to contribute anything towards it (taxes)?  

Edited January 8 by Zeitgeist

[CdnFox]

13 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The implementation of this would’ve turned Indigenous from renters into owners and provided the kind of accountability that goes with enfranchisement.  Instead, the activists chose continued dependency.  Why take pride in anything if others are paying for its upkeep and you don’t have to contribute anything towards it (taxes)?  

Activists don't have a job if the problem gets solved

[Zeitgeist]

24 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Activists don't have a job if the problem gets solved

It’s a gravy train.  Sadly there are some real problems on some of the remote reserves with regard to water quality and basic infrastructure, but far too much attention and money goes where it’s not needed.  When the TRC recommendations extend into areas like universal basic income and when courts are using UNDRIP to justify taking away private property, you can see that the government and courts have lost the plot and it’s harder (impossible?) to put the genie back in the bottle. We have an Indigenous Grievance Complex in Canada that’s a growing money pit with little to show for it except more guilt-mongering and funding demands.  Business is good for those who know how to play the game.

Edited January 8 by Zeitgeist

[Moonbox]

7 hours ago, eyeball said:

It's odd how this disdain for greater transparency in our systems of governance is also common amongst posters who are convinced corruption is rampant. 

I think I was pretty clear that my disdain was for First Nations' leadership, particularly those that feel even the barest minimum standards of financial transparency shouldn't apply to them. 

Since that's the topic of the discussion, I'm not following why you keep wanting to redirect the focus of the topic away from the First Nations and instead towards the RoC, which is already passing this "lofty" bar.  

[eyeball]

15 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

I think I was pretty clear that my disdain was for First Nations' leadership, particularly those that feel even the barest minimum standards of financial transparency shouldn't apply to them.

I'm not saying they shouldn't apply, I'm just saying I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for ordinary First Nations under their leadership to rock the boat just because a bunch of fed up non-natives think they should.

Then I suggested what we might do to inspire them as opposed to pissing them off.

22 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Since that's the topic of the discussion, I'm not following why you keep wanting to redirect the focus of the topic away from the First Nations and instead towards the RoC, which is already passing this "lofty" bar.  

It's like I said above about transparency and accountability our definition of what a lofty bar means is different too.

I guess it's just a subjective sense of satisfaction. I don't feel as satisfied as you with the status quo.