Why will BC not play ball with Canada to create an energy supper power...

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

So there is love for Smith in BC.....it all comes down to that...that's what this is all about the hate for Alberta....

 

You are dumber than robosmith if you think there's widespread hatred of alberta in bc.  Half of bc CAME from alberta at one point or another, we are the only province that has net immigration FROM instead of TO alberta most years, except when the ndp is in power here historically  

Try not to act like a child if you can avoid it.  There's no hatred of alberta, at best lots of people find their incessant whining annoying.  But it's more like watching a younger brother who hasn't quite grown up yet, you still love your brother. 

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Saying no to pipelines and oil is just an excuse, to get more money ?..

They won't get any more money.  There's no money in this, Alberta isn't asking for money from the feds.  Eby raises money as a distraction but nobody is getting any money. 

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

mean how many pipelines are there in BC, and how many bils of dollars has it cost to grease the pockets of BC citizens.

from alberta? Lots and we didn't get any of the money. Sorry to burst your bubble.

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

personally i hope BC continues to say no perhaps that energy east pipelines would become more viable....we love to have high paying jobs and a larger oil and gas industry here in NB....

To be honest that would seem to me to be the pipeline we're missing.  And possibly a gas line to churchill. 

So why doesn't smith ask for those when there's other options to get more oil to bc?  Simple. She is not currently shooting for a pipeline to be built. She does not WANT this to succeed.  She wants it to fail and for that failure to be perceived as being carney's fault. 

That's where we're at. 

[eyeball]

34 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

She does not WANT this to succeed.  She wants it to fail and for that failure to be perceived as being carney's fault. 

That's where we're at. 

Machiavelli himself would blush.

[CdnFox]

23 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Machiavelli himself would blush.

I think we're a long way away from any kind of grand scheme  

Conflict with ottawa has always been one of Smith's Corps policies. It keeps Alberta focused. Let's not forget that they went something like 6 leaders in a row who did not finish their term before they were thrown out. Albertans are a rough group to keep happy sometimes.

And suddenly after years of establishing that here comes some jerk who's saying he'll give Alberta what exactly they want and build more pipelines etc.

She would look stupid if she started criticizing the guy for agreeing with her.

So she plays the game and praises him and says how great it is that he's here and understands them and so on and so forth and then creates a situation where he's going to have an impossible choice.  He can't agree to move forward and honk off key elements of bc who voted for him and half his caucus who are still 'climate control liberals',  and he can't afford to look like he's crapping on the energy sector like trudeau did. 

They're both playing a bit of a game, he had no intent to do another pipeline unless the public demanded it and she never thought he was going to respect alberta despite all her high praise. 

Politicians gonna politic. 

[Army Guy]

23 hours ago, CdnFox said:

You are dumber than robosmith if you think there's widespread hatred of alberta in bc.  Half of bc CAME from alberta at one point or another, we are the only province that has net immigration FROM instead of TO alberta most years, except when the ndp is in power here historically  

Try not to act like a child if you can avoid it.  There's no hatred of alberta, at best lots of people find their incessant whining annoying.  But it's more like watching a younger brother who hasn't quite grown up yet, you still love your brother. 

They won't get any more money.  There's no money in this, Alberta isn't asking for money from the feds.  Eby raises money as a distraction but nobody is getting any money. 

from alberta? Lots and we didn't get any of the money. Sorry to burst your bubble.

To be honest that would seem to me to be the pipeline we're missing.  And possibly a gas line to churchill. 

So why doesn't smith ask for those when there's other options to get more oil to bc?  Simple. She is not currently shooting for a pipeline to be built. She does not WANT this to succeed.  She wants it to fail and for that failure to be perceived as being carney's fault. 

That's where we're at. 

You can call it what ever you like, Killing a major pipeline through BC without seeing the plus side of things does not sound like love to me...trying to kill a major Albertan project that is in its infancy, before it gets off the ground does not sound like brotherly love but rather more like an ex wife...

There is lots of money out there, like every other pipeline that has been built in BC...all it takes is bags of money...and everyone likes money...Feds have not ruled out fed money, EBY is worried that this proposed pipeline will take money away from his projects... he does not care about the nations energy corridor...just BC...

SO no jobs, no port facilities, BC did not get anything , i find that hard to believe...

She is asking for the smallest pipeline first because she knows the liberals have a long history of promising stuff then forgetting all about it....and if we can't get one through BC, what's the odds of getting one across the country...We both know the liberals are not going to build any oil pipelines talk is cheap.......maybe natural gas ones...so yes smith is waiting to see what happens....

[CdnFox]

41 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

You can call it what ever you like, Killing a major pipeline through BC without seeing the plus side of things does not sound like love to me..

That's because for some bizarre reason you've emotionally attached yourself to the idea of this pipeline on our behaving in an irrational fashion

As I have already provided proof to you specifically for the majority of British Columbians support the idea of a pipeline. So let's knock it off with the whole "BC Doesn't love alberta anymore SNIF" routine 

however the environmentalists who make up the core of David eby's support hate Pipelines and the first nations who are the real linchpin to any project hate Pipelines. Oil pipeline specifically. Its' a risk to them and they don't see the benefit. 

So regardless of how they feel about Alberta, they're not excited about another pipeline showing up in their backyard and presenting a risk that wasn't there before.

43 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

There is lots of money out there, like every other pipeline that has been built in BC...all it takes is bags of money...and everyone likes money..

Okay you're sounding like some sort of weird cartoon character here or something.

In order for money to have value it has to be worth more than what you're giving up to get the money. That is something that the first nations will need to be convinced of. And smith is going out of her way to say "screw you we don't care what you think get out of our way", which is about the worst way possible to try to convince them 

And there isn't bags of money out there, the money that's out there wants to know that the return on their investment will be good. They can't just hand out bags and bags of money. That's why they walked away from the trans mountain pipeline that the government had to take over. So there is a very limited amount of money and it has to make sense to the people that are going to spend it.

And no, BC got next to nothing. As I said temporarily there was a significant increase in jobs and money while the pipeline was being built. The final number of permanent jobs we got we're like next to none, not worth mentioning. we don't even make revenue off of it at all. 

It was touted to have been supposed to make us tons of money, and it did make a fair bit during the construction phase. But most of the long-term jobs and revenue and investment and so on and so forth just never materialized.

So the pipeline isn't a benefit to bc directly. And the first nations feel they will be at risk.

 

I stand by what I said, I don't think she wants this to go forward. I think she's playing a longer game. But we will see

 

[herbie]

So maybe I'm off target here, but it seems Danielle Smith thinks it's easier to bully BC and too chickenshit to try that with Quebec or Ontario.
You'd think once beaten, twice shy.

[LinkSoul60]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

You can call it what ever you like, Killing a major pipeline through BC without seeing the plus side of things does not sound like love to me...trying to kill a major Albertan project that is in its infancy, before it gets off the ground does not sound like brotherly love but rather more like an ex wife...

There is lots of money out there, like every other pipeline that has been built in BC...all it takes is bags of money...and everyone likes money...Feds have not ruled out fed money, EBY is worried that this proposed pipeline will take money away from his projects... he does not care about the nations energy corridor...just BC...

SO no jobs, no port facilities, BC did not get anything , i find that hard to believe...

She is asking for the smallest pipeline first because she knows the liberals have a long history of promising stuff then forgetting all about it....and if we can't get one through BC, what's the odds of getting one across the country...We both know the liberals are not going to build any oil pipelines talk is cheap.......maybe natural gas ones...so yes smith is waiting to see what happens....

Nobody is killing anything... Smith is doing nothing more than playing politics with this so-called 'test'.

This is written by Andrew Coyne Globe & Mail, who is very much a conservative but doesn't seem too impressed with how Smith has approached this...

Danielle Smith’s pipeline ransom note to Mark Carney is using Canada as her hostage

 

Here’s the to-do list Danielle Smith has set for Mark Carney. He has to:

[] approve her proposal to build a pipeline from Alberta to the northern coast of British Columbia that has no private sector sponsor and no declared route;

[] push it through over the strenuous objections of the government of B.C., environmental organizations, and the affected Indigenous groups, all of whom are sure to do everything they can to stop the project: legally, politically, and physically; and

[] sweep away a raft of federal laws and regulations said to be responsible for the lack of private sector interest, including the cap on oil-sands emissions, the Impact Assessment Act and the ban on large oil tankers off the B.C. coast.

And he has to commit to doing all this inside of five weeks – in time to include the pipeline on a list of “major projects” receiving federal backing, to be released mid-November. The proposal will not be submitted to the federal Major Projects Office until May. Still, the Alberta Premier says she needs “a signal” of federal intentions before then.

Oh, one more thing: If he does not agree to every line of this ultimatum, it will not only be the Prime Minister’s credibility that is in question, according to Ms. Smith, but Canada itself. “This is a test,” she declared, “of whether Canada works as a country.”

Smith calls Eby’s pipeline criticism ‘un-Canadian and unconstitutional’

From the East and West, Alberta’s pipeline ambitions face pushback

As blackmail notes go, this is right up there. Do as I say – risk your government, Canada’s international climate commitments, relations with Indigenous groups, and God knows what else – or we blow up the country. Well, not “we,” exactly, but you know, those other groups I’ve been furiously winking at the past six months.

Were it not for the implied threat to the country, one might say: fair enough. Since entering politics, Mr. Carney has been playing a double game, suggesting he was open to building pipelines even as he promised no pipeline would be “imposed” on anyone. Ms. Smith wants to flush him out, and pin him down — to force him to choose.

To now, Mr. Carney and his ministers have been able to fend off any questions about their ultimate commitment by insisting “there’s no proposal in front of them. Ms. Smith has sought to close off that escape route by presenting her own proposal. That’s a gamble on her part: were Mr. Carney to do as she asks, and still no private sponsor emerged, she would be left looking foolish. But to get to that point he’d have to spend large amounts of political capital – existential amounts, possibly.

What Ms. Smith is asking of him is not just to clear away any federal regulatory obstacles to its construction, but to back it in the face of determined B.C and Indigenous opposition. While some Indigenous groups are in favour, it is enough that any of those whose territory the line would cross are opposed to pose a major political risk.  

Then there’s the matter of the laws Ms. Smith wants scrapped. The emissions cap would be no loss: it’s a terrible policy – costly, intrusive, and selective to boot. Offset by a tightening system of industrial carbon pricing, the result would be a net gain for the economy, and for national unity. Likewise, the Impact Assessment Act could surely be modified in ways that made it more acceptable to Alberta.

But the tanker ban? The north coast of B.C. is legitimately fragile. A large spill would be catastrophic, not only for the environment, but for the socio-cultural heritage of Indigenous people in the region. Mere repeal of the ban – or a one-time carve-out – is not on.

(Don’t U.S. tankers ply those same waters, unhindered, as former B.C. premier Christy Clark claimed the other day? No. The ban applies to tankers calling at ports in the region. But U.S. ships bearing oil from Alaska are obliged to steer clear of the area altogether via the “voluntary” Tanker Exclusion Zone, and have been since 1985.)

Could it be replaced, however, by regulation: multiple layers of prevention, preparedness and liability? Drawing on reforms implemented in Alaska after the Exxon-Valdez disaster, these might include double hulls (already the norm), mandatory two-tug escorts, traffic monitoring, plus robust response capacity and stringent, enforceable liability, among a long list.

At any rate, two points should be emphasized. One, the regulation of interprovincial pipelines is a federal responsibility: B.C. has no legal power to stop it. Whatever the feds decide, only they have the authority to decide it.

But two: their responsibility is to decide, not necessarily to approve. It’s fair for Ms. Smith to put pressure on Mr. Carney to decide the matter her way. It’s not fair – it is unacceptable – to threaten Canada in the process.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

So maybe I'm off target here, but it seems Danielle Smith thinks it's easier to bully BC and too chickenshit to try that with Quebec or Ontario.
You'd think once beaten, twice shy.

Like I said, I don't think she intends to win this one. I don't think this is the pipeline she wants, and I know that she knows that this isn't how you get it through.

I think carney doesn't back her on this and she starts some shiite saying canada is broken and i' tried but carney abandoned us and so on. Then with a more real threat of separation she lays out her demands and pressures carney to agree.

Say what you like about smith, she's not stupid. She has to know the way she went about this would fail

[Army Guy]

20 hours ago, CdnFox said:

That's because for some bizarre reason you've emotionally attached yourself to the idea of this pipeline on our behaving in an irrational fashion

As I have already provided proof to you specifically for the majority of British Columbians support the idea of a pipeline. So let's knock it off with the whole "BC Doesn't love alberta anymore SNIF" routine 

however the environmentalists who make up the core of David eby's support hate Pipelines and the first nations who are the real linchpin to any project hate Pipelines. Oil pipeline specifically. Its' a risk to them and they don't see the benefit. 

So regardless of how they feel about Alberta, they're not excited about another pipeline showing up in their backyard and presenting a risk that wasn't there before.

Okay you're sounding like some sort of weird cartoon character here or something.

In order for money to have value it has to be worth more than what you're giving up to get the money. That is something that the first nations will need to be convinced of. And smith is going out of her way to say "screw you we don't care what you think get out of our way", which is about the worst way possible to try to convince them 

And there isn't bags of money out there, the money that's out there wants to know that the return on their investment will be good. They can't just hand out bags and bags of money. That's why they walked away from the trans mountain pipeline that the government had to take over. So there is a very limited amount of money and it has to make sense to the people that are going to spend it.

And no, BC got next to nothing. As I said temporarily there was a significant increase in jobs and money while the pipeline was being built. The final number of permanent jobs we got we're like next to none, not worth mentioning. we don't even make revenue off of it at all. 

It was touted to have been supposed to make us tons of money, and it did make a fair bit during the construction phase. But most of the long-term jobs and revenue and investment and so on and so forth just never materialized.

So the pipeline isn't a benefit to bc directly. And the first nations feel they will be at risk.

 

I stand by what I said, I don't think she wants this to go forward. I think she's playing a longer game. But we will see

 

Very true, I'm not a liberal supporter but i do agree on this energy corridor, i mean even the conservatives have signed off on the most of it , shit it is there idea......The fact that all the premiers agreed to all of it....And EBY knew before agreeing to this corridor he would not support OIL pipelines....You can't have an energy corridor without OIL....end of story....

And right now BC premier is standing in the way....

 

[Army Guy]

19 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said:

Nobody is killing anything... Smith is doing nothing more than playing politics with this so-called 'test'.

This is written by Andrew Coyne Globe & Mail, who is very much a conservative but doesn't seem too impressed with how Smith has approached this...

Danielle Smith’s pipeline ransom note to Mark Carney is using Canada as her hostage

 

Here’s the to-do list Danielle Smith has set for Mark Carney. He has to:

[] approve her proposal to build a pipeline from Alberta to the northern coast of British Columbia that has no private sector sponsor and no declared route;

[] push it through over the strenuous objections of the government of B.C., environmental organizations, and the affected Indigenous groups, all of whom are sure to do everything they can to stop the project: legally, politically, and physically; and

[] sweep away a raft of federal laws and regulations said to be responsible for the lack of private sector interest, including the cap on oil-sands emissions, the Impact Assessment Act and the ban on large oil tankers off the B.C. coast.

And he has to commit to doing all this inside of five weeks – in time to include the pipeline on a list of “major projects” receiving federal backing, to be released mid-November. The proposal will not be submitted to the federal Major Projects Office until May. Still, the Alberta Premier says she needs “a signal” of federal intentions before then.

Oh, one more thing: If he does not agree to every line of this ultimatum, it will not only be the Prime Minister’s credibility that is in question, according to Ms. Smith, but Canada itself. “This is a test,” she declared, “of whether Canada works as a country.”

Smith calls Eby’s pipeline criticism ‘un-Canadian and unconstitutional’

From the East and West, Alberta’s pipeline ambitions face pushback

As blackmail notes go, this is right up there. Do as I say – risk your government, Canada’s international climate commitments, relations with Indigenous groups, and God knows what else – or we blow up the country. Well, not “we,” exactly, but you know, those other groups I’ve been furiously winking at the past six months.

Were it not for the implied threat to the country, one might say: fair enough. Since entering politics, Mr. Carney has been playing a double game, suggesting he was open to building pipelines even as he promised no pipeline would be “imposed” on anyone. Ms. Smith wants to flush him out, and pin him down — to force him to choose.

To now, Mr. Carney and his ministers have been able to fend off any questions about their ultimate commitment by insisting “there’s no proposal in front of them. Ms. Smith has sought to close off that escape route by presenting her own proposal. That’s a gamble on her part: were Mr. Carney to do as she asks, and still no private sponsor emerged, she would be left looking foolish. But to get to that point he’d have to spend large amounts of political capital – existential amounts, possibly.

What Ms. Smith is asking of him is not just to clear away any federal regulatory obstacles to its construction, but to back it in the face of determined B.C and Indigenous opposition. While some Indigenous groups are in favour, it is enough that any of those whose territory the line would cross are opposed to pose a major political risk.  

Then there’s the matter of the laws Ms. Smith wants scrapped. The emissions cap would be no loss: it’s a terrible policy – costly, intrusive, and selective to boot. Offset by a tightening system of industrial carbon pricing, the result would be a net gain for the economy, and for national unity. Likewise, the Impact Assessment Act could surely be modified in ways that made it more acceptable to Alberta.

But the tanker ban? The north coast of B.C. is legitimately fragile. A large spill would be catastrophic, not only for the environment, but for the socio-cultural heritage of Indigenous people in the region. Mere repeal of the ban – or a one-time carve-out – is not on.

(Don’t U.S. tankers ply those same waters, unhindered, as former B.C. premier Christy Clark claimed the other day? No. The ban applies to tankers calling at ports in the region. But U.S. ships bearing oil from Alaska are obliged to steer clear of the area altogether via the “voluntary” Tanker Exclusion Zone, and have been since 1985.)

Could it be replaced, however, by regulation: multiple layers of prevention, preparedness and liability? Drawing on reforms implemented in Alaska after the Exxon-Valdez disaster, these might include double hulls (already the norm), mandatory two-tug escorts, traffic monitoring, plus robust response capacity and stringent, enforceable liability, among a long list.

At any rate, two points should be emphasized. One, the regulation of interprovincial pipelines is a federal responsibility: B.C. has no legal power to stop it. Whatever the feds decide, only they have the authority to decide it.

But two: their responsibility is to decide, not necessarily to approve. It’s fair for Ms. Smith to put pressure on Mr. Carney to decide the matter her way. It’s not fair – it is unacceptable – to threaten Canada in the process.

What is Alberta main source of income, OIL and GAS, which Canadian industry provides the most towards our GDP...OIL and GAS....It also provides for most of Alberta....So why would she not want to increase that....why would anyone want to stop that....

Is she holding Canada hostage, it may seem so, I think she is holding Carney feet to the fire due to the promises HE has made to her and Alberta...And it ios not like any of the other provinces have not done so, see Quebec....

It has not sponsor right now , but lets not forget this project was already approved....and according to media sources 31 out of the 40 indigenous players have already agreed to this project before Justin canceled it...these 31 have lost over 2 bil in pay outs togate....and i'm sure if approached again today they would jump at the opportunity...

As for the conditions i agree with all of them, they are past liberal policies put in place to punish oil and gas...the one industry we depend on...and some how that makes sense to the old liberals...

Carney should not have made any promises he can not keep....and if he did what is wrong with calling him out on it...

Look if this crises blows up and the nation ....that's who your going to blame...Alberta and smith...Carney and EBY have no hand in any of that ....OK...If the nation can not stand up to this little crises of a pipeline then we are in serious trouble and should fold out tents up now...  

[LinkSoul60]

8 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

What is Alberta main source of income, OIL and GAS, which Canadian industry provides the most towards our GDP...OIL and GAS....It also provides for most of Alberta....So why would she not want to increase that....why would anyone want to stop that....

Is she holding Canada hostage, it may seem so, I think she is holding Carney feet to the fire due to the promises HE has made to her and Alberta...And it ios not like any of the other provinces have not done so, see Quebec....

It has not sponsor right now , but lets not forget this project was already approved....and according to media sources 31 out of the 40 indigenous players have already agreed to this project before Justin canceled it...these 31 have lost over 2 bil in pay outs togate....and i'm sure if approached again today they would jump at the opportunity...

As for the conditions i agree with all of them, they are past liberal policies put in place to punish oil and gas...the one industry we depend on...and some how that makes sense to the old liberals...

Carney should not have made any promises he can not keep....and if he did what is wrong with calling him out on it...

Look if this crises blows up and the nation ....that's who your going to blame...Alberta and smith...Carney and EBY have no hand in any of that ....OK...If the nation can not stand up to this little crises of a pipeline then we are in serious trouble and should fold out tents up now...  

She's a self-serving politician that cares only about her needs, which is typical and understandable.  So is Eby who is concerned that she's trying to blow up FN's trust by running roughshod which could potentially affect LNG projects BC has on the coast, which FN's support.

Carney never promised anything.  He said he would support pipelines if the consensus exists for one... which there obviously isn't here.  It doesn't matter if those FN's support it, it matters that the Coastal FN's whose land it is doesn't support it. 

[CdnFox]

39 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Very true, I'm not a liberal supporter but i do agree on this energy corridor, i mean even the conservatives have signed off on the most of it , shit it is there idea......The fact that all the premiers agreed to all of it....And EBY knew before agreeing to this corridor he would not support OIL pipelines....You can't have an energy corridor without OIL....end of story....

 

 

And honestly i think that's her long game.  For sure the cpc would back it, and suddenly we're talking LNG, oil, and something we desperately need to share but is rarely talked about - electricity.  

That would truly be a nation building project, i think you're dead right there. 

It is what is needed, and for alberta the most.  They already have the ability to get oil to market to the west, the BIG money is in being able to supply europe and get away from being reliant on china, and that means a corridor to the atlantic  or at LEAST a corridor to hudson's bay for oil and gas. 

And i think that's what smith is going to push. "WHAT?!?!? YOU SHOT DOWN THE EASY PIPELINE TO BC"S COAST?!!? BUT YOU PROMISED US YOU WOULD BE DIFFERENT!  Now albertans want to split again and it's your fault so what are you going to do to fix this? How about......"

As for the northern gateway pipeline, i think that'll happen eventually but it's going to be much lower value to alberta than an eastern pipeline and it can wait till we have a sympathetic bc gov't which probably won't be long based on how badly eby's doing,  and when that time comes then sensible negotiations with the first nations can happen and it'll get worked out.