Donnie strikes three Iranian nuclear sites

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, paxamericana said:

To give you a perspective, the US produces around 14million barrels a day. Iran around 3 million barrels a day. The oil prices will go up yes but not by much. Infact, it's beneficial for the United States for oil prices to go up. Point being, we no longer need the Middle East. If anything the middle east oil producer are competitors. 

If 3 million barrels is taken off the market, the worldwide price of oil will increase substantially and US consumers WILL PAY MORE.

The oil companies will charge all of us the worldwide price. Only good for the oil companies. 🤮

In the long run, it will hasten the switch to renewables which are already cheaper than fossil fuels for many applications.

[paxamericana]

54 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Gee...do us all a favor and don't get into global markets as a career.

You forget, the president has the power to stop all export, meaning even if Canadian oil prices sky rocket, the us could under go a oil price crash as excess production exceed internal demand. Quite literrally a Trump card. Contrary to popular opinion, the US president does have power to control energy prices. 

Edited 16 hours ago by paxamericana

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, paxamericana said:

It's not just about the affect to target that I'm referring to. It's the abillity to completely mitigate Iran's Oil chip. The United States is now a net exporter of oil. Even if Iran take all of their crude offline, we would still be able to bring into market American Shale. It's a much bigger picture. The US is completely self sufficient and there isn't much in the Middle East that we need. Everyone else on the otherhand does need the middle east, specifically China. The Russian can't care less, they would actually prefer if oil prices skyrocket. American Might is on full display.

Not really, american production even if it were to ramp up wouldn't come even close to replacing iranian oil. Which would mean there would be a worldwide shortage, which would mean that prices everywhere including America would shoot up pretty radically and have a very negative impact on the economy. The other problem is that shale and fracking produce a type of oil that isn't necessarily compatible with most of the refining processes as they are today.

I ran still has its oil chip. On the other hand it needs that oil chip in order to make money to survive, so it's a bit of a Mexican standoff in that respect

[Legato]

13 minutes ago, robosmith said:

In the long run, it will hasten the switch to renewables which are already cheaper than fossil fuels for many applications.

Which are?

[User]

15 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

The US refinery are world class, it's designed to process oil with high impurities (sour). The sweet crude is actually easier to refine not harder. In other words, it's can process all flavors. 

Us refineries are a mixed bag, they are not all designed or process heavy sour oil and some are in fact as I said, optimized for light sweet oil. 

 

[paxamericana]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

The other problem is that shale and fracking produce a type of oil that isn't necessarily compatible with most of the refining processes as they are today.

This is actually wrong. Sour crude oil has higher impurities which only very few refineries in the world has the capacity to process, mainly the United States. We export sweeter crude because it's easier to refine, profitting from the difference since sweeter crude is higher grade. The refineries in the united states can and does process sweet crude. 

[CdnFox]

9 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

You forget, the president has the power to stop all export, meaning even if Canadian oil prices sky rocket, the us could under go a oil price crash as excess production exceed internal demand. Quite literrally a Trump card. Contrary to popular opinion, the US president does have power to control energy prices. 

That is absolutely not true. In any president Who tried would be thrown out at the next midterms for sure.

I'm afraid you have a slight lack of understanding how this works.

And just as a reminder you import 8.5 million barrels of oil per day from 80 some odd different countries. The US can export certain types of oil and there's a market for it and at certain times they have small surpluses but even if they were to ramp up production radically the US still cannot produce enough oil to meet its needs without importing.

So unless the president was willing to nationalize the oil industry and take it over out of private hands they would not be able to avoid massive price increases and still need to be importing oil

[paxamericana]

1 minute ago, User said:

Us refineries are a mixed bag, they are not all designed or process heavy sour oil and some are in fact as I said, optimized for light sweet oil. 

 

No this is also wrong. US refineries are able to process all crudes world wide, including our own sweet shale crude. 

Just now, CdnFox said:

And just as a reminder you import 8.5 million barrels of oil per day from 80 some odd different countries.

We refine 8.5millioin crude oil. We don't actually need it. 

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, paxamericana said:

This is actually wrong. Sour crude oil has higher impurities which only very few refineries in the world has the capacity to process, mainly the United States. We export sweeter crude because it's easier to refine, profitting from the difference since sweeter crude is higher grade. The refineries in the united states can and does process sweet crude. 

No, sorry I am quite correct. There were a number of write-ups about this including an American papers when Canada was threatening to put tariffs on when just a few months ago.

It would take much time and cost much money to convert american refineries. This was discussed in length, I'm sorry you weren't aware of it

[robosmith]

2 minutes ago, Legato said:

Which are?

Residential power production by wind and solar.

The far biggest part of my utilities is distribution and that goes away with solar panels on the roof.

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, paxamericana said:

No this is also wrong. US refineries are able to process all crudes world wide, including our own sweet shale crude. 

We refine 8.5millioin crude oil. We don't actually need it. 

No, you're dead wrong

Here's an an summary (specifically about canadian oil) 

While it's theoretically possible, a large-scale switch by U.S. refineries away from Canadian crude oil would be extremely difficult and costly, and would likely lead to significant disruptions in the oil market. Canadian oil, particularly the heavy crude used by many U.S. refineries, is not easily substituted with other sources. Retooling refineries to handle different types of crude oil would require massive investments and take years to complete, and could lead to shortages and price increases in the short term. 

 

Here's why:

• Refinery configuration:

  Many U.S. refineries are specifically designed to process heavy, high-sulfur crude, which is abundant in Canada. These refineries would need significant upgrades to process lighter, sweeter crudes produced in the U.S. or elsewhere. 

   
• Infrastructure limitations:

  The U.S. lacks sufficient pipeline capacity and other infrastructure to transport enough alternative crude oil to all the refineries currently reliant on Canadian supply. 

   
• Economic costs:

  Re-tooling refineries and building new infrastructure would require massive investments, and the transition could take years to complete, leading to significant economic disruptions. 

   
• Potential for shortages and price increases:

  If Canadian oil supply is suddenly cut off, there could be shortages of certain types of refined products and a resulting increase in prices, particularly in the Midwest where many refineries are heavily reliant on Canadian crude. 

   
• North American energy security:

  Canadian crude is a key component of North American energy security, and limiting access could have negative consequences for the entire region. 

   

While some U.S. refineries could potentially switch to other sources of crude oil, a complete shift away from Canadian oil would be a complex and disruptive process, with significant economic and logistical challenges. 

[User]

21 minutes ago, robosmith said:

What "obligations"? Those ENDED when Trump tore up the JCPOA treaty.

What about Israel's "obligations" which developed nuclear bombs in complete SECRECY?

Israel's slogan is not death to Iran... Israel doesn't support a terror network surrounding Iran like they do to Israel.

Also, try to keep up on current events if you want to talk about them here:

Global watchdog finds Iran failing to meet nuclear obligations

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce3v6w2qr12o

"It says Iran's "many failures" to provide the IAEA with full answers about its undeclared nuclear material and activities constitutes non-compliance. It also expresses concern about Iran's stockpile of enriched uranium, which can be used to make reactor fuel but also nuclear weapons."

[CdnFox]

Just now, robosmith said:

Residential power production by wind and solar.

The far biggest part of my utilities is distribution and that goes away with solar panels on the roof.

That's been tried and it's been another failure. Turns out the sun goes down at night where you live   And battery tech just isn't up to speed to be able to deal with it

Seems to be the case we wind up finding ourselves just a tiny bit short of the technology necessary to make it happen. If battery technology advances to the point where we can effectively store energy much better than we do today then sure, when did solar may very well wind up being permanent sources of energy that can replace other forms. But we are a long way from being there just yet and while the wind doesn't always blow and the sun doesn't always shine adams always split and oil always burns

[paxamericana]

Just now, CdnFox said:

No, sorry I am quite correct. There were a number of write-ups about this including an American papers when Canada was threatening to put tariffs on when just a few months ago.

It would take much time and cost much money to convert american refineries. This was discussed in length, I'm sorry you weren't aware of it

Not to get into detaills of how oil refineries work but essentially it has to do with the distillation towers. In the 1980s the american has already predicted that crude oil were going to become more sour with higher impurities. They buillt their refining capcity based on this assessment. This is not a major retooling is actually more like shutting off a few a few valve as distillation process for sweeter crude requires less processing. 

[User]

7 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

No this is also wrong. US refineries are able to process all crudes world wide, including our own sweet shale crude. 

No, you are wrong. You are speaking in generalities and ignoring that not all refineries are currently designed for heavy sour which is why we still import oil from the Middle East. 

 

[paxamericana]

3 minutes ago, User said:

No, you are wrong. You are speaking in generalities and ignoring that not all refineries are currently designed for heavy sour which is why we still import oil from the Middle East. 

 

Sweet crude is easier to process not harder. That's how physics work. The sweet crude specific gravity are much lower compared to the sour stuff. It actually flows better and is easier to distill. having a taller distillation tower allows you to process sour crude as well as sweet, it does not mean that your sweeter crude requires any major retooling. 

Edited 16 hours ago by paxamericana

[User]

Just now, paxamericana said:

Sweet crude is easier to process not harder. That's how physics work. The sweet crude specific gravity are much lower compared to the sour stuff. It actually flows better and is easier to distill. having a taller distillation tower allows you to process sour crude, it does not mean that your sweeter crude requires any major retooling. 

Thanks for saying something that has nothing to do with anything we were discussing. 

We IMPORT light sweet crude from places like the Middle East and export our heavy sour... so, thanks for making my point for me. 

[paxamericana]

Just now, User said:

Thanks for saying something that has nothing to do with anything we were discussing. 

We IMPORT light sweet crude from places like the Middle East and export our heavy sour... so, thanks for making my point for me. 

??? No, the sweet stuff I'm referring to is the Shale oil that are extracted here locally in the US. The iranian crude is sour with higher sulphur content. The US refinery are able to refine all grade of oil. 

[User]

1 minute ago, paxamericana said:

??? No, the sweet stuff I'm referring to is the Shale oil that are extracted here locally in the US. The iranian crude is sour with higher sulphur content. The US refinery are able to refine all grade of oil. 

Had that backwards. The point is that the refineries tooled to refine Middle East Oil can't just flip a swicth and start refining light sweet. 

They are not just able to refine all grades as you assert here. 

 

[Legato]

23 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Residential power production by wind and solar.

The far biggest part of my utilities is distribution and that goes away with solar panels on the roof.

Which require government subsidies.

In the United States, new Treasury Department figures show that subsidies for wind and solar dwarf all other energy-related provisions in the tax code, costing $31.4 billion in 2024, and are expected to cost taxpayers $421 billion more between 2025 and 2034 based on the subsidies in the Biden-Harris climate bill, the Inflation Reduction Act. The 10-year cost of federal tax expenditures for wind and solar has increased 21-fold since 2015. Federal tax expenditures for the investment tax credit (ITC) and production tax credit (PTC), which are the primary drivers behind the deployment of wind and solar energy, are, by far, the most expensive energy-related provisions in the federal tax code. Between 2025 and 2034, the ITC and PTC will account for more than half of all energy-related tax provisions. That total does not include the tax credits for electric vehicles, which amounted to $14 billion in 2024 and are expected to cost $105.7 billion between 2025 and 2034. 

So much more expensive.

Porky Pie.

[CdnFox]

26 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Not to get into detaills of how oil refineries work but essentially it has to do with the distillation towers. In the 1980s the american has already predicted that crude oil were going to become more sour with higher impurities. They buillt their refining capcity based on this assessment. This is not a major retooling is actually more like shutting off a few a few valve as distillation process for sweeter crude requires less processing. 

Kid, you're wrong. I posted some basic evidence as to why you're wrong. It's your right to be wrong, you are free to be as stupid and as much of a twat as you personally would like but you are absolutely wrong and this isn't a point for discussion. This is well documented, this is agreed upon by experts on both sides of the border and we just went through big discussions about this a couple months ago

You are 100% incorrect just like people who claim the earth is flat are 100% incorrect. Read a book

18 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

??? No, the sweet stuff I'm referring to is the Shale oil that are extracted here locally in the US. The iranian crude is sour with higher sulphur content. The US refinery are able to refine all grade of oil. 

The very fact that you need to lie to yourself about this in order to try and make your point proves that you know you're in the wrong 

But that's okay. It would have been better if you had taken the time to educate yourself on this first but if you insist on making yourself look like a fool that certainly something that is within your rights

[paxamericana]

6 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Kid, you're wrong. I posted some basic evidence as to why you're wrong. It's your right to be wrong, you are free to be as stupid and as much of a twat as you personally would like but you are absolutely wrong and this isn't a point for discussion. This is well documented, this is agreed upon by experts on both sides of the border and we just went through big discussions about this a couple months ago

You are 100% incorrect just like people who claim the earth is flat are 100% incorrect. Read a book

The very fact that you need to lie to yourself about this in order to try and make your point proves that you know you're in the wrong 

But that's okay. It would have been better if you had taken the time to educate yourself on this first but if you insist on making yourself look like a fool that certainly something that is within your rights

Canadians aren't able to refine their own crude much less blow a gasket. Regardless of your opinion, the US does and produces it's own refined oil product making it one of the cheapest location in the world for unsubsidzied electricity. You may not like it but this is what Energy Independence looks like. The Middle East just does not matter to the United States all that much. Nuclear winter or otherwise. 

[User]

Just now, paxamericana said:

Canadians aren't able to refine their own crude much less blow a gasket. Regardless of your opinion, the US does and produces it's own refined oil product making it one of the cheapest location in the world for unsubsidzied electricity. You may not like it but this is what Energy Independence looks like. The Middle East just does not matter to the United States all that much. Nuclear winter or otherwise. 

Again... we STILL import oil from the Middle East. 

Oil is a GLOBAL market. 

 

[paxamericana]

2 minutes ago, User said:

Again... we STILL import oil from the Middle East. 

Oil is a GLOBAL market. 

 

We import Crude to refine it. We don't actually need to* . We can refine our own oil which we do do. It's a simple math problem we sell more crude than we consume. The oil no longer has the geopoliltical leverage it once did to the United States. This is not true however, for the rest of the world. The American never reallly participated globally from an economics point of view FYI

[User]

1 minute ago, paxamericana said:

We import Crude to refine it. We don't actually need to* . We can refine our own oil which we do do. It's a simple math problem we sell more crude than we consume. The oil no longer has the geopoliltical leverage it once did to the United States. This is not true however, for the rest of the world. The American never reallly participated globally from an economics point of view FYI

This is not some video game, like the United States is just one blob on a map. 

Oil refining capacity is strategically located based on where the supply is as well as geared to refine certain types of oil at those locations. 

There is no magic off/on switch or magic pipeline delivery system to instantly get all oil we produce to any refinery and for that refinery to then process it. 

If it were so simple... we wouldn't be importing any oil right now.