Have Trump and his ICE agents become a terrifying Fascist state?

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

I believe in the free enterprise and capitalism system.

Yes, I believe in it too.  The problem is we live next door to a very powerful country and in some things like agriculture, we just can't work in the same way as Americans.  I don't agree with Socialism either and I agree government meddles in the economy way too much.

The situation with a powerful country like America next door to us means we can't just allow them to completely take over our economy.  So having some tools too protect ourselves from the powerful U.S. corporations and power is necessary in certain areas.  I wouldn't call that Socialism.  It is just acting in self defence in a few areas that are essential to us.

If we let America do what it wants with our economy and businesses, we will get hammered.  We need to have some walls or barriers to protect our economy from takeover.

[User]

24 minutes ago, blackbird said:

If we let America do what it wants with our economy and businesses, we will get hammered.  We need to have some walls or barriers to protect our economy from takeover.

So... you sit here arguing America should be overrun by mass illegal immigration that is hammering our economy, hammering our businesses, hammering our economic systems... while you then turn around and argue your own damn country should have protective barriers in place?

 

[taxme]

19 hours ago, User said:

So... you sit here arguing America should be overrun by mass illegal immigration that is hammering our economy, hammering our businesses, hammering our economic systems... while you then turn around and argue your own damn country should have protective barriers in place?

 

These lieberals don't know what they want. They keep supporting big government, big and more taxes, more wokeism and could careless about freedom and freedom of speech. The problem with Canada is that there is just way too much government in our lives and lieberal minded buffoons keep voting for that same problem that plagues us all. 

With three socialist, environmental and lieberal political party's in Canada, competing against one conservative party, the conservative party is doomed to always be the official opposition party in Canada. Approx. 60% of those three political party's will always run and of course ruin Canada forever and they have done a great job of destroying the old Canada. 

I know that there is lots of talk these days about Alberta wanting out of Canada, but i would much prefer and see the four western provinces join together and separate from the french communist Quebec eastern elite that have been running and ruining Canada for decades now.

Those four provinces together would become a real power house and all westerners could potentially become filthy rich. Marxist programs and agendas like multiculturalism, bilingualism, metric, massive 3rd world immigration and wokeism would be gone in the west for good. 

Canadian businesses would do just fine if the government would just get off of their backs. It is hard to compete and own a business here in Canada because we have way too many lieberal socialism rules and regulations and taxes and permits stifling growth and freedom. Four more years of globalist lieberalism and Canada will become burnt toast. 

RIP Canada is what i am hoping for. Hey, we never know, eh? 😇

 

Edited Friday at 09:36 PM by taxme

[taxme]

On 6/4/2025 at 2:16 PM, CdnFox said:

But as I understand it all of these people are genuinely unlawfully in the US. If that's not true they can still exercise their legal options outside of the US.

If that understanding is correct, then there's nothing totalitarian or fascist. If people don't like the law then they should change the law, but if these people are genuinely unlawfully in the country then they should be removed.

I'm more interesting conversation would be is this wise considering it's going to discourage virtually anyone from showing up to their hearings? It could make the problem go deeper underground and make it that much harder to resolve.

But no, sovereignty over one's national borders is not fascist in the slightest

Every illegal refugee living in America illegally today must know by now that they have broken the American immigration laws and they cannot believe that this is okay and that they can just stay in America as an illegal. Trump has told those illegals that if they leave America voluntarily they will get a free plane ride home and given a thousand dollars to boot and will have a chance to apply to America at a later date.

Tens of thousand have taken Trump on his offer. For those who do not take the offer, when they get caught, they will be expelled from America for good and will not be allowed to ever come back to America. Did CNN or MSNBC or the CBC ever tell us this little tid bit? Nope, that i am pretty sure of. Instead, they just went and blew everything out of proportion to try and make Trump look like a meanie.

These leftist lieberals like blackbird and other lieberals here are just way too gullible and always will believe the MSM leftist lies and bull chit. If it were not for FOX NEWS i would not know anything about what was going on in America in regards to immigration. If i only listened to CNN or CBC i too would despise merciless Trump and think of him as a tyrant and a fascist. The lieberal MSM is just plain full of horse crap. They lie all the time. 🤮

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

Every illegal refugee living in America illegally today must know by now that they have broken the American immigration laws and they cannot believe that this is okay and that they can just stay in America as an illegal. Trump has told those illegals that if they leave America voluntarily they will get a free plane ride home and given a thousand dollars to boot and will have a chance to apply to America at a later date.

Tens of thousand have taken Trump on his offer. For those who do not take the offer, when they get caught, they will be expelled from America for good and will not be allowed to ever come back to America. Did CNN or MSNBC or the CBC ever tell us this little tid bit? Nope, that i am pretty sure of. Instead, they just went and blew everything out of proportion to try and make Trump look like a meanie.

These leftist lieberals like blackbird and other lieberals here are just way too gullible and always will believe the MSM leftist lies and bull chit. If it were not for FOX NEWS i would not know anything about what was going on in America in regards to immigration. If i only listened to CNN or CBC i too would despise merciless Trump and think of him as a tyrant and a fascist. The lieberal MSM is just plain full of horse crap. They lie all the time. 🤮

If we're being honest I think a lot of them have been legitimately sent mixed messages. I think they hear democrats say yeah you broke the law but it's perfectly okay and don't worry about it and we're going to make it right and we'll find a path for you to become citizens and you don't have to worry etc

I think many of them are probably very confused that all of a sudden somebody is enforcing the law

But that is the fault and responsibility of the democrats. They have to take ownership of that. The republicans aren't the bad guy for enforcing the law the democrats are the bad guys for sending the message that it's okay to break the law in the first place.

[blackbird]

On 6/19/2025 at 4:45 PM, taxme said:

Tariffs and marketing and more government getting involved with everything is what is causing more problems then they are worth.

I don't think you really know anything at all about supply management or marketing boards in Canada.  It is very complex and it is not Socialism.  

You might compare it to the traffic control system in a busy city.  You have various signs and right of ways, traffic lights, speed limits vary, crosswalks, and rules and regulations.

The supply management system is a controlling system in the same way as traffic control in a city.  It's purpose is to prevent anarchy in the agricultural production industry and prevent harm to producers and consumers.  So in that way it is similar to the traffic control system in a city which is meant to protect society.  That is not Socialism.  

There are some here who like to talk big, but they don't know what they are talking about.  I would advise you not to follow them.

So before disparaging it and calling it Socialism, you really need to do some studying and learn a bit about what you are talking about.  I know it takes time and effort, but you might learn something.

Edited Saturday at 02:04 AM by blackbird

[User]

31 minutes ago, blackbird said:

There are some here who like to talk big, but they don't know what they are talking about.  I would advise you not to follow them.

You cowards, you come on here and push your warped ideology but then have to run and hide when you get called out and then act all big. 

 

[CdnFox]

40 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I don't think you really know anything at all about supply management or marketing boards in Canada.  It is very complex and it is not Socialism.  

You might compare it to the traffic control system in a busy city.  You have various signs and right of ways, traffic lights, speed limits vary, crosswalks, and rules and regulations.

The supply management system is a controlling system in the same way as traffic control in a city.  It's purpose is to prevent anarchy in the agricultural production industry and prevent harm to producers and consumers.  So in that way it is similar to the traffic control system in a city which is meant to protect society.  That is not Socialism.  

There are some here who like to talk big, but they don't know what they are talking about.  I would advise you not to follow them.

So before disparaging it and calling it Socialism, you really need to do some studying and learn a bit about what you are talking about.  I know it takes time and effort, but you might learn something.

That's mostly wrong. 

It is absolutely nothing remotely like traffic control in a city at all. 

And it is socialistic. Just because one particular thing is socialist in nature doesn't mean the whole government is social ist  and not all socialism is inherently bad and evil if so facto

The purpose of supply management is to guarantee a lack of competition. The reason that we would consider that is it was believed that if we didn't do that the Americans would be able to flood our markets and wipe out our producers because american farm products are heavily subsidized by their gov't AND are often of lower quality and quality control. 

Which would mean that shortly the us would wipe out that food supply production in canada and we would be at the mercy of the us for critical food.  Which was deemed to be bad.  Look at what's happening now, can you imagine if they also controlled all our milk eggs and chicken?

Other food production could stand on it's own without protection. 

So the government agreed to a socialist model whereby the means of production are extraordinarily controlled by the government for a public benefit in this particular case. 

It would be much BETTER if we didn't have to, but it would mean risking losing control over our food in this case. 

 

It's got squat all to do with traffic lights. It's a socialist model being used to protect an industry we consider to be of national interest. Yeash 

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

That's mostly wrong. 

It is absolutely nothing remotely like traffic control in a city at all. 

 I see traffic control as a good comparison.  I say that in the sense of control to maintain a stable and reliable system.

The idea is both traffic control and the agricultural industry from production to delivery to the consumer are complex operations which need to be controlled for the good of society.  Both require regulation to maintain an orderly operation.  That's all I am saying. 

Just looked up the definition of Socialism.  So yes, it could fall under the definition as Socialism.  Socialism is also defined as a form of government control.  Supply management is a form of government control.   However I don't think it is a form of wealth redistribution.  Supply management is for the purpose of maintaining order in the production of the food supply, which I think most people would agree with rather than the anarchy of no control of food production.

We do need government to do a few things which are communal in nature in order to maintain basic services and law and order.  Whether someone wants to call everything government does Socialism Is personal preference.

[blackbird]

7 hours ago, taxme said:

Trump has told those illegals that if they leave America voluntarily they will get a free plane ride home and given a thousand dollars to boot and will have a chance to apply to America at a later date.

Trump under the direction of his MAGA supporters are trying to deport every undocumented migrant in America even if they arrived decades ago and have families who are U.S. citizens and if they are not criminals.

That doesn't make any sense.  There are likely millions of them who are not criminals.  Trump makes much out of the idea that they are criminals as if they are all criminals.  But any rational person knows that is false.  There is no proof.  He doesn't even follow any due process in what he is doing.

Splitting up families and deporting a hard-working bread winner and leaving a wife and kids to try to support themselves is totally wrong.  The people doing this have no conscience.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

 I see traffic control as a good comparison.

It's not. Traffic controls purpose is to allow for the orderly flow of traffic so that all vehicles can get to their locations as quickly as possible without incident or accident. The purpose of supply management is to prevent products from ever getting to market in order to ensure that local products are produced instead. There's no comparison

 

Quote

I say that in the sense of control to maintain a stable and reliable system.

uh huh. 

 

Quote

The idea is both traffic control and the agricultural industry from production to delivery to the consumer are complex operations which need to be controlled for the good of society.  Both require regulation to maintain an orderly operation.  That's all I am saying. 

All right, well, lets put a pin in that for now.  We can both agree that supply management is a system that controls a process.

Quote

Just looked up the definition of Socialism.  So yes, it could fall under the definition as Socialism.  Socialism is also defined as a form of government control.  Supply management is a form of government control.   However I don't think it is a form of wealth redistribution.  Supply management is for the purpose of maintaining order in the production of the food supply, which I think most people would agree with rather than the anarchy of no control of food production.

Actually not a bad argument. 

From a strictly technical point of view it's generally accepted that the definition of a socialist model that all socialist models have in common is the control of the means of production or production of wealth either by the state or a collective and either by direct ownership or in some models a market system that is very strictly controlled by regulation.

However it is reasonable to say that almost all of them have some species of wealth distribution as well, either in the form of direct wealth distribution or assets or benefits to the society at large. So while that may not be an official requirement to be considered socialist it's arguable that without it the model may be controlling but not necessarily socialist.  It's a strong position. 

While supply management isn't a directly wealth sharing or wealth through the provision of services etc or the like i would argue that it DOES represent a direct benefit to the members of society and to the society at large and that does represent an element of weath redistribution. The purchasers of the product are paying more than they should in order to guarantee that the society as a whole has access to the products when needed. In other words it represents a tax to achieve a goal that the state considers to be a net national benefit. 

Still... fair point. Control is not ipso facto socialist and the 'wealth' or benefit redistribution angle is a little thin in this case 

Quote

We do need government to do a few things which are communal in nature in order to maintain basic services and law and order.  Whether someone wants to call everything government does Socialism Is personal preference.

Oh for sure. As i mentioned previously just because one gov't program uses a 'socialist' model doesnt' make it evil.  I mean even welfare is in its nature socalistic and even the states has that. 

Like most things in life, it's all about moderation and portion control 😆

Edited Saturday at 07:19 AM by CdnFox

[August1991]

On 6/4/2025 at 5:02 PM, blackbird said:

What is happening in a country which was once supposed to be a leading country for human rights and freedoms is shocking.

...

Strongly disagree.

The United States is not a fascist state

[blackbird]

19 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Strongly disagree.

The United States is not a fascist state

1.  Repeating a word or two does not prove anything.  Factual evidence is what counts.

2.  The subject speaks more about the actions of one leader and his agents in the mass roundup and deportation of people.   A large portion of the population disagree with what is going on. 

Edited Saturday at 09:12 AM by blackbird

[taxme]

19 hours ago, CdnFox said:

If we're being honest I think a lot of them have been legitimately sent mixed messages. I think they hear democrats say yeah you broke the law but it's perfectly okay and don't worry about it and we're going to make it right and we'll find a path for you to become citizens and you don't have to worry etc

I think many of them are probably very confused that all of a sudden somebody is enforcing the law

But that is the fault and responsibility of the democrats. They have to take ownership of that. The republicans aren't the bad guy for enforcing the law the democrats are the bad guys for sending the message that it's okay to break the law in the first place.

They say over approx. 12 - 15 million crossed into America illegally from Mexico. All under Bidumb's democratic party approval. Shameful.  

17 hours ago, blackbird said:

I don't think you really know anything at all about supply management or marketing boards in Canada.  It is very complex and it is not Socialism.  

You might compare it to the traffic control system in a busy city.  You have various signs and right of ways, traffic lights, speed limits vary, crosswalks, and rules and regulations.

The supply management system is a controlling system in the same way as traffic control in a city.  It's purpose is to prevent anarchy in the agricultural production industry and prevent harm to producers and consumers.  So in that way it is similar to the traffic control system in a city which is meant to protect society.  That is not Socialism.  

There are some here who like to talk big, but they don't know what they are talking about.  I would advise you not to follow them.

So before disparaging it and calling it Socialism, you really need to do some studying and learn a bit about what you are talking about.  I know it takes time and effort, but you might learn something.

Government "IS" the problem and not the solution. 😇

[taxme]

13 hours ago, blackbird said:

Trump under the direction of his MAGA supporters are trying to deport every undocumented migrant in America even if they arrived decades ago and have families who are U.S. citizens and if they are not criminals.

That doesn't make any sense.  There are likely millions of them who are not criminals.  Trump makes much out of the idea that they are criminals as if they are all criminals.  But any rational person knows that is false.  There is no proof.  He doesn't even follow any due process in what he is doing.

Splitting up families and deporting a hard-working bread winner and leaving a wife and kids to try to support themselves is totally wrong.  The people doing this have no conscience.

Shit happens, mac. 🫠

[robosmith]

14 hours ago, August1991 said:

Strongly disagree.

The United States is not a fascist state

It wasn't until Trump's goons started going around demanding papers from random (or racially profiled) persons.

3 hours ago, taxme said:

They say over approx. 12 - 15 million crossed into America illegally from Mexico. All under Bidumb's democratic party approval. Shameful.  

Government "IS" the problem and not the solution. 😇

You gotta stop listening to FOS LIES no matter how they comfort you. LMAO

[blackbird]

4 hours ago, taxme said:

They say over approx. 12 - 15 million crossed into America illegally from Mexico.

I already posted an article refuting that.  Migrants have been coming in for decades under both Republican and Dem administrations.  The numbers have been exaggerated by certain Republicans.

[User]

33 minutes ago, robosmith said:

It wasn't until Trump's goons started going around demanding papers from random (or racially profiled) persons.

Leftists like you on January 6th: We love the police!

Leftists like you now: The police are goons!

 

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, User said:

Leftists like you on January 6th: We love the police!

Leftists like you now: The police are goons!

 

It's the rampant hypocrisy that really kind of pisses me off

[User]

20 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I already posted an article refuting that.  Migrants have been coming in for decades under both Republican and Dem administrations.  The numbers have been exaggerated by certain Republicans.

It doesn't matter if it is 20 million or 5 million, they are here illegally. You support them breaking the law. You are here arguing against enforcing the law. 

 

[CdnFox]

29 minutes ago, User said:

It doesn't matter if it is 20 million or 5 million, they are here illegally. You support them breaking the law. You are here arguing against enforcing the law. 

 

Well and there's the answer. It's fundamentally wrong to blame Trump for enforcing the law. If you don't like the law then demand that the law be changed and propose a new law. Otherwise the law should be enforced

[Matthew]

On 6/19/2025 at 5:07 PM, taxme said:

My rationale tells me that illegals have no right to due process. They entered America illegally and are now seen as criminals for doing so.

So you're rationale here is that committing a criminal act reliquishes someone's legal rights? 

On 6/19/2025 at 5:07 PM, taxme said:

Of course convicted American murderers have certain rights in the USA, including due process because they are  American citizens.

But now here you're admitting the reality that committing a crime does not relinquish one's legal rights. Instead you're resorting back your other flawed rationale that only US citizens have legal rights in the US, which I've already demonstated to be false.

1. The 14th Amendment distnguishes between citizens and persons under a state's juristiction.

2. Obviously it would be illegal to murder or steal the property of a non-citizen. Because all people standing on US soil have certain basic rights. 

[User]

14 minutes ago, Matthew said:

So you're rationale here is that committing a criminal act reliquishes someone's legal rights? 

This whole argument is a silly hypothetical that doesn't even exist. 

You have run away from our discussion pages ago now where I refuted your arguments so this is what you are left with. 

The reality is that folks are in fact getting due process. 

 

[blackbird]

On 6/21/2025 at 5:17 PM, CdnFox said:

Well and there's the answer. It's fundamentally wrong to blame Trump for enforcing the law. If you don't like the law then demand that the law be changed and propose a new law. Otherwise the law should be enforced

Trump doesn't always follow the law.  That has been well reported in the news.

He also illegally sent people to the dangerous and harmful CECOT prison in El Salvador.  That is a serious violation of human rights.

 So no Trump goes against human rights and due process.  It is dumb to claim he enforces the law.

This is what a law school says:

quote

Legal Rights of Undocumented Immigrants in the U.S.

Are undocumented immigrants treated the same under the law as lawful residents of the U.S.?

By Ilona Bray, J.D.·University of Washington School of Law

Updated: Jan 27th, 2025

Why Trust Us?

Undocumented (sometimes called "illegal") immigrants living and perhaps working in the United States have some rights under the U.S. Constitution, despite their unlawful immigration status. Aspects of the Constitution that address certain basic human rights apply to all people, even those who lack proper documentation. Examples of these rights include:

the right to due process (fair treatment according to established rules and principles) in legal proceedings

the right to have the laws protect you in the same way they do everyone else

the right to a jury trial and to defend yourself if arrested (including arrests by immigration authorities) or sued

the right to organize or be part of a labor union

the right to be protected against unlawful search and seizure

the right not to testify against yourself in court

the right to file a civil lawsuit if you've been harmed, and

the right not to be discriminated against.

Some states grant illegal immigrants various rights as well, such as to apply for a drivers' license (discussed below). California is among those states, and also offers Medi-Cal (a state run health-insurance program for extremely low-income people) to undocumented persons.

If you are an undocumented immigrant in the United States, keep reading to learn more about your rights.

In this article:

Constitutional Rights That Apply to Undocumented Persons

Undocumented Immigrants' Rights to Defense Against Removal

Drivers' Licenses Are Available to Undocumented Immigrants in Some U.S. States

No Right for Undocumented Immigrants to Work in the United States

Employment-Related Rights If Undocumented Immigrant Is Working in the United States

Protections Against Discrimination for Undocumented Immigrants

Possibilities for Undocumented Immigrants to Obtain Legal Status in the U.S.

An Immigration Lawyer Can Help Analyze Your Legal Rights and Possibilities

Constitutional Rights That Apply to Undocumented Persons

Even if you are in the United States without permission or proper immigration documents, various sections of the U.S. Constitution apply to you.

There is a particularly important provision of the Fourteenth Amendment stating that, "No state shall...deprive any person of life, liberty or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

An undocumented immigrant is definitely a "person." In brief, this means you are owed such procedural rights as a jury trial and the right to defend yourself against the criminal charges if arrested.

It also means that if someone sues you over a civil matter (for example, alleging that you owe money for having breached a contract or done damage to the other person's property), that you have the right to receive notice and to defend yourself in court. Also see "Defense Against Removal," below.

Various criminal charge-related amendments to the Constitution (including the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth and 14th) also apply to undocumented persons. These protect against things like unlawful search and seizure by law enforcement authorities (without probable cause and a warrant for such an action). They allow you to stay silent and avoid self-incrimination (testify against your own interests) when in court or custody.

Undocumented immigrants also have the right to file lawsuits, such as discrimination suits, in federal court. State laws vary, but some jurisdictions give an undocumented immigrant the right to sue others in state court, as well.

Undocumented Immigrants' Rights to Defense Against Removal

In most situations, you have the right to a hearing in immigration court and to defend yourself against deportation or removal from the United States.

There are exceptions, however. One known as "expedited removal" allows arriving aliens to be sent back without seeing an immigration judge, except in narrow circumstances such as if they assert a credible fear of return and wish to apply for asylum. The definition of "arriving aliens" is broader than one might think. Under the second Trump administration, it is said to include anyone not inspected by an immigration officer at the border who has been caught anywhere within 100 miles within two years of entry.

Another exception is made if you have returned to the United States after a previous order of deportation. In this case, no further hearings are available to you, and the previous order can be immediately acted upon.

If you are scheduled for a hearing before an immigration judge (in the Executive Office for Immigration Review or EOIR) you can challenge the grounds on which you are being deported or assert various defenses. In presenting your case, you can testify, submit supporting documents, and call witnesses. You also have the right to representation in immigration court by an attorney, but the U.S. government doesn't have to pay for one on your behalf. You may be able to find low-cost legal help from a charitable organization serving immigrants.

unquote

Illegal Immigrant Rights

I know stubborn people like Taxme and User won't read this because they prefer to remain in the dark and act like Nazis.

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, Matthew said:

On 6/19/2025 at 3:07 PM, taxme said:

My rationale tells me that illegals have no right to due process. They entered America illegally and are now seen as criminals for doing so.

So you're rationale here is that committing a criminal act reliquishes someone's legal rights? 

On 6/19/2025 at 3:07 PM, taxme said:

Of course convicted American murderers have certain rights in the USA, including due process because they are  American citizens.

But now here you're admitting the reality that committing a crime does not relinquish one's legal rights. Instead you're resorting back your other flawed rationale that only US citizens have legal rights in the US, which I've already demonstated to be false.

Taxme has a history of anti-Israel anti-Semitic posts.  So of course he thinks undocumented migrants have no rights.  He doesn't even believe the Hamas attack on Oct. 7th happened and rejects any news reports that go against his Nazi ideology.