Happy “Liberation Day” aka Economic Disaster Day

[Aristides]

[Aristides]

Quote

Taxation without representation is tyranny, Conservatives used to understand that tariffs are taxes on the American people."

What happened? Did we all of a sudden give up all the things we used to believe in?

 

 

Rand Paul.

MAGA's are not conservatives, nor do they believe in checks and balances or democracy.

Edited Thursday at 03:05 PM by Aristides

[Hodad]

2 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Rand Paul.

MAGA's are not conservatives. 

Rand Paul is right that conservatives did used to understand that tariffs are taxes on the people, and that, yes, they gave up all the things they used to believe in. 

But still an ldiot, because these taxes came specifically through representation. The fools voted for this. They brought it upon us. You can't support an agent of chaos and then complains when it bites you. 

[gatomontes99]

5 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Rand Paul is right that conservatives did used to understand that tariffs are taxes on the people, and that, yes, they gave up all the things they used to believe in. 

But still an ldiot, because these taxes came specifically through representation. The fools voted for this. They brought it upon us. You can't support an agent of chaos and then complains when it bites you. 

The ridiculous assumption here is that all taxes are bad. When you take money away from consumers that is bad. When you incentivize buying from American workers, that is good.

[Hodad]

54 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

The ridiculous assumption here is that all taxes are bad. When you take money away from consumers that is bad. When you incentivize buying from American workers, that is good.

Lol. So, some sort of wealth transfer through taxation is now good? 🤪 Did someone hit you on the head with a mallet recently?

The problem in this case is that it's taking from the working class to give to the working class rather than the CEOs making 500x as much as their employees. 

 

Edited Thursday at 04:10 PM by Hodad

[Hodad]

If you'd like to see an actual conservative intellectual (like hunting for an endangered species) you might give this a watch. The partisan defense is still there, but there is thinking behind it. 

Oren Cass - Understanding Trump Tariffs Through the Lens of “The New Conservatives”

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

The Falkland Islanders better mend their ways, all three thousand of them:

• Falkland Islands: 41% (charges U.S. 82%)

And those nasty-radical-left penguins on the Heard and McDonald Islands are asking for it. No more will they mock us:

• Heard and McDonald Islands: 10% (charges U.S. 10%)

Edited Thursday at 04:20 PM by SpankyMcFarland

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

Winning!

[BeaverFever]

3 hours ago, gatomontes99 said:

No. You are just against Trump. That's it. No other reason.

I am against incompetent and dishonest people crashing the global economy which is happening as we speak turn on the news to any channel and look at markets crashing. 
 

3 hours ago, gatomontes99 said:

Not necessarily. You are excluding the price elasticity. Unless you know what Americans are willing and able to pay for products, you can't predict what the price will go to.

If the cost to make something goes up, the price goes up. If a new tax is added onto something you pay more. How donyou mot get that?

3 hours ago, gatomontes99 said:

Well, which is it? Did the US ban dairy from Canada or buy it? Meanwhile, if the US exports enough dairy products, Canada will charge us 200% plus in tariffs. Hypocrite much?

Nobody is a hypocrite except Trump I explained this already. Under USMCA US and Canada BOTH AGREED to only allow a limited amount of each other’s dairy. Ok?  Mutual agreement. Both agreed. Trump agreed. He called USMCA “the greatest deal ever” Now he is comparing about Canada while USA is even worse and he doesn’t want you to know about it. Canada isn’t complaining about USA because it’s a mutual agreement and Canadians can live with it. 

USA says any Canadian dairy above their import limit is BANNED. Illegal. Verboten. Import it and you are a US lawbreaker. Meanwhile Canada says any US dairy above their limit is not banned but the Canadian importer just has to pay a tariff. Its not 200% it’s a sliding scale that starts at something low like 5% and goes up that high depending on how much the limit is exceeded by.

I also mentioned that US subsidizes the shit out of US dairy so American farmers massively outproduce market demand and want to dump their subsidized surplus on foreign markets. And as I already said Canada imports more US dairy than US imports Canadian dairy. We take your shitty, hormone and pharmaceutical-filled, subsidized crap  and use it mostly for industrial purposes  

But Trump doesn’t tell you any of those facts, does he?

 

 

3 hours ago, gatomontes99 said:

After forcing Colombia to back down, White House claims America is respected again

Trump reverses new tariffs threat on Canada after Ontario rescinds electricity charges

Canada and Mexico beefed up border enforcement to try to avoid the tariffs.

Colombia. Ooh. A banana republic. Some victory 

Trump has had his ass handed to him by Canada. Remember the phoney fentanyl tarriffs were supposed to goninto efect Feb 1 on our entire economy then we hit back and he pushed it to Feb 4 then March 4 then april 2 as we continued to fight back and win over the American public including most republicans. Now the phoney fentanyl tariffs are gone completely and yesterday he walked back a little of the threatened auto tariffs and gave one of the lowest tariffs of any country (except Russia) Even UK which has been kissing his ass got worse tariffs assigned.  And we still announced new counter-tariffs on him today for the shit he has left.  
 

The border measures were already announced under Biden, we simply repeated them and made some cosmetic changes to try amd appease Trump, which failed. Only after we responded with counter-tariffs and Trump and Vance called Trudeau yelling and swearing in a failed attempt to get him to surrender did  they back off their tariff threats. We punched the bully in the nose and he backed off.
 

3 hours ago, gatomontes99 said:

The island you refer to is an Australian territory, so it was included. I'm guessing it will never see a tariff charged. So why are your panties in a wad?

Yes, Russia was left off. But we are negotiating an end to a war. Is it a good idea to poke that bear in the middle of negotiations? Of course not. There's plenty of time to institute tariffs AFTER the war comes to an end. For now, new tariffs would be counter productive.

It just goes to show they left no stone unturned in naming countries to tariff, to the point they are naming uninhabited rocks that aren’t even countries…..except Russia and Belarus  Belarus isn’t party to that war and Ukraine is included on the tariff list so your theory that it’s for a peace deal appears to be wrong. 
 

By the way Trumps propaganda falsely said that uninhabited island “charges USA” a 10% tariff 

Edited Thursday at 04:34 PM by BeaverFever

[I am Groot]

17 hours ago, gatomontes99 said:

The economic disaster is doing nothing. The uneducated and uninformed think this will start and economic war. The rest of us know the first strike has already happened.

•     China charges 67% tariffs to the US. Its new tariff will be 34%.
•     The European Union charges 39% tariffs to the US. Its new tariff will be 20%.
•     Vietnam charges 90% tariffs to the US. Its new tariff will be 46%.
•     Taiwan charges 64% tariffs to the United States. Its new tariff will be 32%.
•     Japan charges 46% tariffs to the US. Its new tariff will be 24%.
•     India charges 52% tariffs to the US. Its new tariff will be 26%.
•     South Korea charges 50% tariffs to the US. Its new rate will be 25%.
•     Thailand charges 72% tariffs to the US. Its new rate will be 36%.
•  

Sooo, none of the above is remotely true.

I watched Steve Liesman on CNBC this morning trying to figure out where the Trumpsties came up with these numbers. Apparently, what they did was to take any country with a trade surplus with the US, deduct US exports to that country, and the resulting figure becomes their 'tariff rate against the US. For example, if US exports to X are 100b but it only imports 50b then they say X has a 50% tariff on America, and so slap a 25% tariff back on that country. It simply assumes that all surpluses others have are the result of cheating in some way, and so must be punished.

BUT... it ignores US trade surpluses in services. The US often has very large trade surpluses in services due to its megacap tech companies. The Trumpsties complete ignore that. Also, if the US actually already has a trade surplus or no deficit with a country then it slaps a flat 10% tariff on them.

Edited Thursday at 04:49 PM by I am Groot

[User]

22 minutes ago, Hodad said:

If you'd like to see an actual conservative intellectual (like hunting for an endangered species) you might give this a watch. The partisan defense is still there, but there is thinking behind it. 

Oren Cass - Understanding Trump Tariffs Through the Lens of “The New Conservatives”

Hunting for them? You would hide from them on this forum just like you do me. 

Trump is not a Conservative and plenty of Conservatives do in fact disagree with him on tariffs, like Ben Shapiro. 

 

[gatomontes99]

27 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Lol. So, some sort of wealth transfer through taxation is now good? 🤪 Did someone hit you on the head with a mallet recently?

The problem in this case is that it's taking from the working class to give to the working class rather than the CEOs making 500x as much as their employees. 

 

My eyes rolled so far back in my head that I saw my neck hair.

You are just making shit up. Stop. In the first term, Trump levied tariffs on China and various goods. The end result was job growth, wage growth (including minorities that saw the biggest gain in wages) and price stability. They worked. Despite all the same left wing nut job economists (i.e. Krugman) saying it would bring on massive job losses, inflation and recession. It never happened.

[BeaverFever]

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Lol...your panic is amusing. 

"Goods from Mexico and Canada that comply with the USMCA will continue to be exempt.

• USMCA-compliant goods will also remain exempt from tariffs tied to fentanyl-related issues."

https://www.forexlive.com/news/white-house-goods-from-mexico-and-canada-that-comply-with-the-usmca-continue-to-be-exempt-20250402/

USA is still going to suffer from the tariffs it applied to the rest of the world as well the tariffs it continues to illegally apply to steel and aluminum which are USMCA compliant, and to  other sectors that Trump said he would announce in the future.   Stock markets continue to free fall, sucker. 

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

Lol. So, some sort of wealth transfer through taxation is now good? 🤪 Did someone hit you on the head with a mallet recently?

The problem in this case is that it's taking from the working class to give to the working class rather than the CEOs making 500x as much as their employees. 

No, it's not. This is taking from the working class and giving to the rich. The idea, as I understand it, is to have more taxes paid by those who import stuff thus lowering income taxes. Income taxes are disproportionately paid by the rich. Any cut to income taxes thus disproportionately benefit the rich. Now the rich do import goods, but the cost is largely a big 'meh' to them. And the great mass of imports is cheap stuff made in China, Indonesia, Vietnam, India, Mexico, etc. Cheap toys, tools, cars, appliances, etc. The tariffs are going to hit all of that and will be no 'meh' to the working class or even the middle class.

If you slap a 50% tax on something that's not, as Liesman said on CNBC going to discourage purchase, it's basically shutting down that trade. That will mean more products are made in the US, but they will cost more. Not just because it costs more to make things in the US but because American companies will be able to largely ignore foreign competition. Historically, see how crappy US cars were until Japanese and then German cars began to export to the US. People were amazed at how they actually worked and didn't need constant repairs and lasted so long.

So Americans will have to pay more for their toys, their cars, their dishes, their appliances, computers, cell phones, clothing, hell, even their plastic trash cans. The rich won't care. The drop in their taxes will more than make up for it. Not so for the working classes.

Edited Thursday at 05:08 PM by I am Groot

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, BeaverFever said:

USA is still going to suffer from the tariffs it applied to the rest of the world as well the tariffs it continues to illegally apply to steel and aluminum which are USMCA compliant, and to  other sectors that Trump said he would announce in the future.   Stock markets continue to free fall, sucker. 

Good luck with that...Loser.

[gatomontes99]

10 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Sooo, none of the above is remotely true.

I watched Steve Liesman on CNBC this morning trying to figure out where the Trumpsties came up with these numbers. Apparently, what they did was to take any country with a trade surplus with the US, deduct US exports to that country, and the resulting figure becomes their 'tariff rate against the US. For example, if US exports to X are 100b but it only imports 50b then they say X has a 50% tariff on America, and so slap a 25% tariff back on that country. It simply assumes that all surpluses others have are the result of cheating in some way, and so must be punished.

BUT... it ignores US trade surpluses in services. The US often has very large trade surpluses in services due to its megacap tech companies. The Trumpsties complete ignore that.

It does make that assumptio. And it isn't wrong. Take Canada and dairy as an example. Wisconsin produces more dairy products than all of Canada. But, if we exceed a certain limit, our tariffs on dairy go up to +200%. Why do you think we don't reach that limit?

 

Edited Thursday at 04:45 PM by gatomontes99

[Aristides]

4 hours ago, gatomontes99 said:

 

Well, which is it? Did the US ban dairy from Canada or buy it? Meanwhile, if the US exports enough dairy products, Canada will charge us 200% plus in tariffs. Hypocrite much?

Fact: Tariffs are only charged on amounts in excess of quotas negotiated in USMCA. They apply to both sides. Do you really think your stable genius would negotiate an agreement that gave only Canada the ability to charge tariffs on dairy?

Fact: Canada imports more than twice as much dairy from the US than it exports to the US.

Get off the Trump Kool  Aid for awhile. It's rotting your brain.

[I am Groot]

6 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

It does make that assumptio. And it isn't wrong. Take Canada and dairy as an example. Wisconsin produces more dairy products than all of Canada. But, if we exceed a certain limit, our tariffs on dairy go up to +200%. Why do you think we don't reach that limit?

 

Canada's moronic dairy supply management system was part of the last trade negotiations with the US and the US agreed to ignore it in exchange for Canada giving way on other trade items.

[gatomontes99]

8 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Fact: Tariffs are only charged on amounts in excess of quotas negotiated in USMCA. They apply to both sides. Do you really think your stable genius would negotiate an agreement that gave only Canada the ability to charge tariffs on dairy?

Fact: Canada imports more than twice as much dairy from the US than it exports to the US.

Get off the Trump Kool  Aid for awhile. It's rotting your brain.

Wow. We negotiated down from NAFTA that destroyed our manufacturing to a less bad deal. Now we are coming back for a fair deal. To you that means we were wrong? No. It means we got half the loaf yesterday and we are getting the rest today.

5 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Canada's moronic dairy supply management system was part of the last trade negotiations with the US and the US agreed to ignore it in exchange for Canada giving way on other trade items.

That's not even remotely related to what we were talking about. We were talking about the effect of tariffs.

[I am Groot]

2 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

Wow. We negotiated down from NAFTA that destroyed our manufacturing to a less bad deal. Now we are coming back for a fair deal. To you that means we were wrong?

Again, this presupposes that all trade deficits are the result of cheating somehow. So let's look at Canada. Its trade surpluses with the US are, as everyone knows, because we sell them a lot of oil. And we actually sell it at below world prices! Somehow, this is cheating. But if Canada says "Okay, we'll build another couple of pipelines to the coast and ship all our oil to someone else so we no longer have any trade surpluses with you" the US would then go "No way! I'm putting even higher tariffs on you for refusing to sell us your oil!"

Explain to me the logic, never mind fairness in that?

[SpankyMcFarland]

The US still runs a large trade surplus with us on dairy products and a truly YUGE one on agricultural products overall. How do they manage that despite all our nasty, unfair trade practices? Might it have anything to do with the large subsidies paid to farmers down there or the army of illegal workers who do the milking and picking? I didn’t hear much talk from Trump about all that in yesterday’s deranged borefest.  

[Nationalist]

These Libbies...so freaked out by this rather large nothingburger.

[SpankyMcFarland]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

Nobody is a hypocrite except Trump I explained this already.

And I very much fear you will have to explain it again. You’re a bit of a saint in your spare time, BF, with tousands of patience as we say on the Rock. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

2 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

The Falkland Islanders better mend their ways, all three thousand of them:

• Falkland Islands: 41% (charges U.S. 82%)

And those nasty-radical-left penguins on the Heard and McDonald Islands are asking for it. No more will they mock us:

• Heard and McDonald Islands: 10% (charges U.S. 10%)

And we’ve just obtained exclusive footage of White House negotiations with a Heard Islander:

 

Edited Thursday at 06:32 PM by SpankyMcFarland

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

And I very much fear you will have to explain it again. You’re a bit of a saint in your spare time, BF, with tousands of patience as we say on the Rock. 

And Beaver Fever...

Edited Thursday at 06:51 PM by Nationalist