The Protestant Reformation was a major force that brought freedom and human rights to the west

[blackbird]

I believe this fact is not widely known.  The Reformation which took place four to five hundred years ago in some areas of Europe led to the Holy Roman Empire run by Rome being broken up in a number of countries of Europe.  In some countries, after a long struggle, freedom from the total control by Rome was finally brought to an end and individual freedom was gradually born.

Foxe's Book of Martyrs tells us in the introduction:

"In all ages, we find that a disposition to persecute for opinion’s sake, has been manifested by wicked men, whatever may have been their opinions or sentiments on religious subjects. The intolerant jew, and the bigoted pagan, have exhibited no more of a persecuting spirit, than the nominal professor of Christianity, and the infidel and the avowed atheist. Indeed, it seems to be an “inherent vice,” in unsanctified nature to endeavour by the pressure of physical force, to restrain obnoxious sentiments, and to propagate favourite opinions. It is only when the heart has been renewed and sanctified by divine grace, that men have rightly understood and practised the true principles of toleration."

Persecution was practiced for the past 2,000 years throughout the world and resulted in the loss of countless lives.  Those were the martyrs described in the book Foxe's Book of Martyrs available from many sellers on Amazon and also available to read online at some websites.  The Holy Roman Inquisition is also recounted in many books available on Amazon and also available online to read on the archive.org website.

The Reformation which resulted in a struggle in certain countries of Europe over a long period of time beginning in the 14th to 16th centuries resulted in a number of countries in northern Europe breaking free from the shackles of Rome which previously had dominated everyone's life through their control of kings, queen, emperors, and local government authorities and church clergy.  The accused sometimes received the death penalty if convicted of heresy.  Rome used the tool of the Holy Roman Inquisition for four hundred years to enforce Rome's totalitarian system on the western world through the middle ages.  The Reformation eventually led these countries to adopt democratic systems, human rights such as freedom of religion, freedom of conscience and freedom of speech.  These freedoms were essentially non-existent in the western world for at least a thousand years in the 16th century.  The Bible had been banned from the common people and all teachings had to come from the church clergy and hierarchy.  The Reformation changed everything and people demanded the right to believe what they themselves determined and the right to speak what they believed.  Many lost their lives in this struggle for freedom and we should take the time to acknowledge those who suffered and gave their lives for the freedom we enjoy today.  We should never take it for granted.  There are powers that be that would if they had the chance take away our freedoms and bring us under their system.

Edited March 20, 2025 by blackbird

[August1991]

On 3/19/2025 at 6:27 PM, blackbird said:

....

The Reformation which resulted in a struggle in certain countries of Europe over a long period of time beginning in the 14th to 16th centuries resulted in a number of countries in northern Europe breaking free from the shackles of Rome which previously had dominated everyone's life through their control of kings, queen, emperors, and local government authorities and church clergy.

.....

And endless wars for the rest of us.

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, August1991 said:

And endless wars for the rest of us.

Could you explain what you mean?  It doesn't sound like you understand that the Reformation gave us three vitally important things.  Yes, it resulted in 200 years of wars and struggle to break free from the totalitarian system of Romanism and its vice grip control of every one's personal and public life.  But look what it gave us.  It brought the western world out of the dark ages and gave us freedom.  The price of the freedom was a heavy price paid by many and we are the beneficiaries.

1.  Free enquiry.

2.  Democracy

3.  Limited government.

This article goes into that in detail and explains what it all means.

"

Editor’s Note: Alec Ryrie is the author of “Protestants: The Faith That Made the Modern World” and professor of Christian history at Durham University in England.

CNN — 

If you’re a Protestant, the anniversary of the revolution Martin Luther set in motion 500 years ago this Tuesday is a big deal. But even if you’re not, it should be. The Reformation was one of the decisive events that made the world we live in, for better or worse.

Luther and his followers weren’t trying to reshape the world: they were trying to save it. They had a gospel to proclaim and thought the end was near. But in their urgency they trampled down the walls that had kept life in Western Christendom neatly ordered.

Luther outflanked the power of the Catholic Church hierarchy with a new communications technology, the printing press, that allowed him to speak directly to the people. When he was finally dragged before the assembled majesty of church and empire in 1521 and ordered to renounce his errors, he refused, insisting that his conscience was captive to the Word of God, a higher authority than any pope, bishop or king.

Suddenly, everyone had a voice and no one could tell anyone else what to believe. Luther’s radical appeal to the total supremacy of personal faith would trigger nearly 200 years of religious warfare.

If you’re inclined to believe that our modern divisions go back to the way Luther smashed all order and authority: well, no one can tell you you’re wrong. But if you think modern life is more than an endless bad-tempered argument, you may concede that Luther’s Reformation gave us a few useful, if largely, unexpected gifts. Let me propose three:"

For the full article and elaboration of how the Reformation changed the world:

3 surprising ways the Reformation changed the world | CNN

 

[August1991]

25 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Could you explain what you mean?  It doesn't sound like you understand that the Reformation gave us three vitally important things.  Yes, it resulted in 200 years of wars and struggle to break free from the totalitarian system of Romanism and its vice grip control of every one's personal and public life.  But look what it gave us.  It brought the western world out of the dark ages and gave us freedom.  The price of the freedom was a heavy price paid by many and we are the beneficiaries.

1.  Free enquiry.

2.  Democracy

3.  Limited government.

....

 

blackbird, are you from Iran? One of those Shi'ite Muslims?

Most Sunnite Muslims tolerate the "Protestant" Christians. 

[blackbird]

21 minutes ago, August1991 said:

blackbird, are you from Iran? One of those Shi'ite Muslims?

Most Sunnite Muslims tolerate the "Protestant" Christians. 

False diversion attempt.  Why don't you answer the question instead of making up phony claims?  If you don't want to deal with the subject, why are you wasting time on here?

[SpankyMcFarland]

The churches of Italy remain the gold standard where beauty is concerned. The Anglican ones aren’t bad but my goodness things go down from there. 

Any fair description of Luther has to mention his peculiar obsession with the Jewish people. In that respect he certainly didn’t do the causes of progress, tolerance and secularism any favours. 
 

[TreeBeard]

On 3/19/2025 at 3:27 PM, blackbird said:

freedom

The reformation did nothing for the freedom of enslaved people.  It took a move toward secular laws to do that. 
 

The Catholic church owned and traded in slaves.  And, of course, other Christian sects justified slavery with bible passages.    
 

 

[herbie]

But we're free to choose Chocolate, Strawberry, Banana and even Neopolitan flavoured nonsense now.

Why dem people don't even get off their butts until the 11:00 service, Billy. They're not like us, don't even go to IHOP after, they go to Dennys, and don't even wear there best clothes. We gotta kill 'em and all their generations.

[Edwin]

By the time Martin Luther Exposed the criminality of the Vatican, and when German noblemen protected Martin Luther, The Vatican started a 30 year war and a 100 year war against Germany for the crime of protecting Martin Luther.

But the Criminality began long before that. One place to start the search is around 150 B.C. when the King of Yehuda (judah) conquered Edom and offered them life if the converted to His way of seeing the "gospel". So, Edom pretended to follow the doctrines of that  King and His priests. Eventually these Edomites got control of the Priesthood, temple, and the Kingship with Herrod.

Skipping to 70 A.D. when The Roman Army conquered Yerusalem, the Edomites incorporated into the Roman system in Italy got so many Christians tormented and killed that they were able to take of the Christian Church in Rome.....And they did what they did under Herrod: They pretended to be Noble, and perfect followers of what they called "The Law" and gradually they mastered the Pretence of being "Christians" and owned the Church at Rome. About 500 years ago, they created the Letter 'J'.

They tricked all of Christendom into supposing that Christ is "Jesus" and that the Edomite Jews are Biblical Israel.

[blackbird]

On 7/4/2025 at 12:23 PM, TreeBeard said:

The reformation did nothing for the freedom of enslaved people.  It took a move toward secular laws to do that. 
 

The Catholic church owned and traded in slaves.  And, of course, other Christian sects justified slavery with bible passages.    
 

 

Before the Reformation in the 1500s, people were under the total control of the Papacy, which controlled Kings, Queens, and dominions throughout the western world.  There was no freedom of thought or beliefs. 

The primary purpose of the Reformation was to break free from the shackles of Rome.  Reformation leaders believed man should be free to believe in God according to his own conscience and his own belief on what the Bible says and not be controlled by the Papacy and its clergy through the mass and all its sacraments and rules.

The Reformation was not specifically for the purpose of abolishing slavery, but it certainly led to abolishing slavery in the following centuries.  The purpose of the Reformation was to obtain freedom from the control by Rome for everyone. 

Don't forget slavery had been going on in many places in the world in various forms for countless centuries and still goes on in some forms in various places.

quote

At the founding of the United States, all of the original thirteen states permitted slavery.  Originally, every state was a slave state. However, as Christians increasingly recognized that American, race-based slavery differed significantly from the indentured servitude many European colonists had experienced and from the slavery described in the Bible, they began to see it as a blatant violation of the Lord Jesus’ “golden rule”: do unto others as you would have them do to you (Matthew 7:12).

As American slavery became more prominent, its true nature became more apparent. Christians began to oppose it. So arose leaders like the Quakers Moses Brown (1738 –1836), John Woolman (1720 –1772), and Benjamin Lundy (1789-1833), editor of the Genius of Universal Emancipation; and the Puritan Samuel Sewall (1652 – 1730) who authored The Selling of Joseph (1700), one of the earliest anti-slavery texts; Samuel Hopkins (1721-1803) who led his church to become the first recorded organized church to openly preach against slavery; Presbyterian pastor Jacob Green (1722-1790) identified slave-holding as contrary to the ideals of the Revolution; early Baptist leader Isaac Backus (1724-1806) declared “No man abhors that wicked practice [of slavery] more than I do”; Baptist pastor David Barrow (1753–1819) founded the Kentucky Abolition Society; Lyman Beecher (1775 –1863) championed the abolition of slavery, influencing leading abolitionist William Lloyd Garrison (1805-1879); George Bourne (1780–1845) a Presbyterian pastor in Virginia, authored The Book and Slavery Irreconcileable (sic) (1815); Francis Wayland (1796-1865), Baptist pastor and president of Brown University, wrote anti-slavery books which influenced Abraham Lincoln; and the many converts of the revivalism of the early nineteenth century were taught, by leaders like Charles Finney (1792-1875), that opposing slavery was a moral obligation. Hence, entire denominations officially denounced slavery, such as the Methodist Episcopal Church, the Quakers, The Reformed Presbyterian Church, The Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church, Presbyterian General Assembly, Triennial Board of Foreign Missions (the, then, major Baptist organization), and others.   unquote

Blog: The Christian Role in Ending American Slavery | Christian History Institute

There are a number of countries that still have slavery.  They are not western countries where there has been a Judeo-Christian culture or civilization.  So while ending slavery was not the main message of Christianity, it did have an influence to help end it over time.  The teaching to love thy neighbour probably was a major factor and the belief that God created man in his image and every person's humanity and dignity must be respected.  That also helped to recognize the importance of human rights.

Some countries that still practice slavery:

India  

11,050,000

China

5,771,000

North Korea

2,696,000

Pakistan

2,349,000

Russia

1,899,000

 

Edited August 6, 2025 by blackbird

[TreeBeard]

13 hours ago, blackbird said:

Before the Reformation in the 1500s, people were under the total control of the Papacy, which controlled Kings, Queens, and dominions throughout the western world.  There was no freedom of thought or beliefs. 

The primary purpose of the Reformation was to break free from the shackles of Rome.  Reformation leaders believed man should be free to believe in God according to his own conscience and his own belief on what the Bible says and not be controlled by the Papacy and its clergy through the mass and all its sacraments and rules.

The Reformation was not specifically for the purpose of abolishing slavery, but it certainly led to abolishing slavery in the following centuries.  The purpose of the Reformation was to obtain freedom from the control by Rome for everyone. 

Don't forget slavery had been going on in many places in the world in various forms for countless centuries and still goes on in some forms in various places.

quote

At the founding of the United States, all of the original thirteen states permitted slavery.  Originally, every state was a slave state. However, as Christians increasingly recognized that American, race-based slavery differed significantly from the indentured servitude many European colonists had experienced and from the slavery described in the Bible, they began to see it as a blatant violation of the Lord Jesus’ “golden rule”: do unto others as you would have them do to you (Matthew 7:12).

As American slavery became more prominent, its true nature became more apparent. Christians began to oppose it. So arose leaders like the Quakers Moses Brown (1738 –1836), John Woolman (1720 –1772), and Benjamin Lundy (1789-1833), editor of the Genius of Universal Emancipation; and the Puritan Samuel Sewall (1652 – 1730) who authored The Selling of Joseph (1700), one of the earliest anti-slavery texts; Samuel Hopkins (1721-1803) who led his church to become the first recorded organized church to openly preach against slavery; Presbyterian pastor Jacob Green (1722-1790) identified slave-holding as contrary to the ideals of the Revolution; early Baptist leader Isaac Backus (1724-1806) declared “No man abhors that wicked practice [of slavery] more than I do”; Baptist pastor David Barrow (1753–1819) founded the Kentucky Abolition Society; Lyman Beecher (1775 –1863) championed the abolition of slavery, influencing leading abolitionist William Lloyd Garrison (1805-1879); George Bourne (1780–1845) a Presbyterian pastor in Virginia, authored The Book and Slavery Irreconcileable (sic) (1815); Francis Wayland (1796-1865), Baptist pastor and president of Brown University, wrote anti-slavery books which influenced Abraham Lincoln; and the many converts of the revivalism of the early nineteenth century were taught, by leaders like Charles Finney (1792-1875), that opposing slavery was a moral obligation. Hence, entire denominations officially denounced slavery, such as the Methodist Episcopal Church, the Quakers, The Reformed Presbyterian Church, The Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church, Presbyterian General Assembly, Triennial Board of Foreign Missions (the, then, major Baptist organization), and others.   unquote

Blog: The Christian Role in Ending American Slavery | Christian History Institute

There are a number of countries that still have slavery.  They are not western countries where there has been a Judeo-Christian culture or civilization.  So while ending slavery was not the main message of Christianity, it did have an influence to help end it over time.  The teaching to love thy neighbour probably was a major factor and the belief that God created man in his image and every person's humanity and dignity must be respected.  That also helped to recognize the importance of human rights.

Some countries that still practice slavery:

India  

11,050,000

China

5,771,000

North Korea

2,696,000

Pakistan

2,349,000

Russia

1,899,000

 

AI cut and paste. 

[blackbird]

On 8/6/2025 at 8:36 AM, TreeBeard said:

AI cut and paste. 

Perhaps, but still factual. Don't forget AI must still be programmed by men or women.  It doesn't pull facts out of thin air. 

So it's all still facts.

[blackbird]

Luther led the greatest revolution in 1,500 years that set a large part of mankind free from false Christianity.

 

[TreeBeard]

23 hours ago, blackbird said:

Perhaps, but still factual. Don't forget AI must still be programmed by men or women.  It doesn't pull facts out of thin air. 

So it's all still facts.

What does AI say about climate change?  If it confirms it’s real, will you believe it?

[blackbird]

On 8/9/2025 at 9:44 PM, TreeBeard said:

What does AI say about climate change?  If it confirms it’s real, will you believe it?

I have always believed in climate change.  That is different than believing man is the cause of it.  Climate change has always occurred.  Man has never been the cause of it.  Now many are saying man is contributing to it by doing things that release CO2 into the atmosphere, but there is no real proof of it.  It is something that cannot be proven because of the size of the planet and it cannot be replicated in a laboratory.

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

I have always believed in climate change.  That is different than believing man is the cause of it.  Climate change has always occurred.  Man has never been the cause of it.  Now many are saying man is contributing to it by doing things that release CO2 into the atmosphere, but there is no real proof of it.  It is something that cannot be proven because of the size of the planet and it cannot be replicated in a laboratory.

Ask AI if climate change is caused by humans.  It’ll tell you the facts, right?

[blackbird]

6 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Ask AI if climate change is caused by humans.  It’ll tell you the facts, right?

No, AI cannot tell you anything other than what man programs into it to say.  That is simple logic.

[TreeBeard]

Just now, blackbird said:

No, AI cannot tell you anything other than what man programs into it to say.  That is simple logic.

So how do you know the other facts you believe that AI spits out are correct?

[blackbird]

On 8/16/2025 at 2:01 AM, TreeBeard said:

So how do you know the other facts you believe that AI spits out are correct?

You don't unless you have done or do a lot of studying from other sources.

[TreeBeard]

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You don't unless you have done or do a lot of studying from other sources.

 

On 8/8/2025 at 10:05 PM, blackbird said:

It doesn't pull facts out of thin air. 

You are contradicting yourself.  

[blackbird]

On 8/18/2025 at 11:29 AM, TreeBeard said:

 

You are contradicting yourself.  

Nonsense.  Look at yourself.  I posted lots of facts, but you just post negativity with nothing supporting it.  This is why you have to be ignored much of the time.  Waste of time.

Edited October 9, 2025 by blackbird

[eyeball]

On 8/16/2025 at 2:00 AM, blackbird said:

No, AI cannot tell you anything other than what man programs into it to say.  That is simple logic.

AI has been programmed to learn. Christians, not so much.

[blackbird]

19 hours ago, eyeball said:

AI has been programmed to learn. Christians, not so much.

Brilliant!  Hey, you showed how little it takes to entertain you and Michael.