myata Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 Investigations in some possibly faraway future will answer the question with hard, documented evidence. But here's an observation: if Russia indeed happened to own a high level asset installing a total chaos, ruining as much as possible quickly and decisively would be their preferred and quite possibly, the only strategy with a chance of success. Take it fast and take all. Overwhelm and paralyze the resistance before it begins. Before democratic forces in the society had the chance to understand what's happening and unite to resist. The previous term showed them that the slow takeover wouldn't work: democracy is too messy too many processes, courts, takes too long, way too long and then the pueblo wants a change. So, a new radical idea: take it over from the top fast and decisively, the only course with a chance of success. And now: find one difference, between this obvious logic and the reality. See? Russian asset or not, it just looks the same, no difference. How do we interpret that fact? And the last point is on the so called "checks and balances": just like in Germany last century they are proving themselves dysfunctional and useless. Till the last moment, the formal political bunch will hang on to and scramble to the illusion that they can control something or anything. That something still depends on them and needs them when the rising dictator already plays in his sick mind how he will wipe his a$$ with their cries and whimpers remembering every word and each transgression. Nope: no chance of waking up, nobody is home to answer. And I don't mean only Republicans. A total, accomplished cave in and a collapse. 1 1 Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
gatomontes99 Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 10 minutes ago, User said: Dear diary... Wild speculation, fantasy and hope pass for facts in the liberal lala land. 3 Quote The Rules for Liberal tactics: If they can't refute the content, attack the source. If they can't refute the content, attack the poster. If 1 and 2 fail, pretend it never happened. Everyone you disagree with is Hitler. A word is defined by the emotion it elicits and not the actual definition. If they are wrong, blame the opponent. If a liberal policy didn't work, it's a conservatives fault and vice versa. If all else fails, just be angry.
myata Posted March 5 Author Report Posted March 5 Truth exists. Maga lies. Facts exist, they are objective, facts are not "speculation". 1 Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
Legato Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 14 minutes ago, myata said: Truth exists. Maga lies. Facts exist, they are objective, facts are not "speculation". That depends upon which factory produced the facts. The current Democrat factory only produces amorphous pseudo tales, sold under the "fact" name. 1 Quote
BeaverFever Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 Look. Just because Trump says everything a Russian asset would say and does everything a Russian asset would do doesn’t mean he’s a Russian asset. Lots of these people are just nothing more than gullible id1ots. 1 Quote
Legato Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 1 minute ago, BeaverFever said: Look. Just because Trump says everything a Russian asset would say and does everything a Russian asset would do doesn’t mean he’s a Russian asset. Lots of these people are just nothing more than gullible id1ots. Case in point. Quote
BeaverFever Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 1 minute ago, Legato said: That depends upon which factory produced the facts. The current Democrat factory only produces amorphous pseudo tales, sold under the "fact" name. Hmm who is falsely claiming fentanyl is a pouring over the border from Canada? Who is falsely claiming US banks are banned from Canada? 2020 election lies? Obama’s Kenyan birth lie? Saddam’s WMD lie?There are literally tens of thousands of false claims from Republicans like this. Trump and his minions and mouthpieces are by far the most prolific liars in western politics since 1945 4 minutes ago, Legato said: Case in point. Case in point 1 2 Quote
User Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 11 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: Look. Just because Trump says everything a Russian asset would say and does everything a Russian asset would do doesn’t mean he’s a Russian asset. Lots of these people are just nothing more than gullible id1ots. Trump doesn't say everything a Russian asset would say or do everything a Russian asset would do. Quote
Legato Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 14 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: Hmm who is falsely claiming fentanyl is a pouring over the border from Canada? Who is falsely claiming US banks are banned from Canada? 2020 election lies? Obama’s Kenyan birth lie? Saddam’s WMD lie?There are literally tens of thousands of false claims from Republicans like this. Trump and his minions and mouthpieces are by far the most prolific liars in western politics since 1945 Case in point Russia? Case in point. Quote
robosmith Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 47 minutes ago, Legato said: That depends upon which factory produced the facts. The current Democrat factory only produces amorphous pseudo tales, sold under the "fact" name. When facts exist, everyone in touch with reality agress what they are. Trolls however, are NOT cause they and you are a charade and not serious. Quote
User Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 17 minutes ago, robosmith said: When facts exist, everyone in touch with reality agress what they are. Trolls however, are NOT cause they and you are a charade and not serious. No, when people like me start hammering you with facts, you put them on ignore. Quote
Legato Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 15 minutes ago, robosmith said: When facts exist, everyone in touch with reality agress what they are. Trolls however, are NOT cause they and you are a charade and not serious. If facts and democrats are used in the same sentence, that's a major grammatical error. Even the lowly troll knows that. 1 Quote
myata Posted March 5 Author Report Posted March 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, BeaverFever said: Look. Just because Trump says everything a Russian asset would say and does everything a Russian asset would do Just as stated right in the title. Still the coincidences are troubling and need to be looked at very carefully. Can we afford the innocence in such cases, when the fate of democracy itself can be at stake? Edited March 5 by myata Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
Aristides Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 Trump has been busy telling Zelensky that he can't hope for anything more than he has and Russia is going to get everything it wants and Trump is going to do everything he can to force this on Ukraine. Putin hasn't had to say a word so who is Trump acting for? Trump's idea of a peace treaty is for one side to surrender. Any fvcking id!ot can come up with that. 2 Quote
Radiorum Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 Trump is on the side of Putin and Russia over democratic allies. How much more of an asset could you be? 2 2 Quote
User Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 39 minutes ago, Aristides said: Trump has been busy telling Zelensky that he can't hope for anything more than he has and Russia is going to get everything it wants and Trump is going to do everything he can to force this on Ukraine. Putin hasn't had to say a word so who is Trump acting for? Trump's idea of a peace treaty is for one side to surrender. Any fvcking id!ot can come up with that. Ukraine and Russia coming to peace with Ukraine continuing to exist is not surrender. You know what people like you can't come up with? Any other plan. You are just fine with Russia grinding down Ukraine every day for years to come until Ukraine is conquered, so long as we all keep funneling money into that you can feel good about yourselves. That is not a plan. That is not a path to victory. 15 minutes ago, Radiorum said: Trump is on the side of Putin and Russia over democratic allies. How much more of an asset could you be? No, he is not on the side of Putin or Russia. He is on the side of ending this war. Quote
Radiorum Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 6 minutes ago, User said: No, he is not on the side of Putin or Russia. Yes, he is. 7 minutes ago, User said: He is on the side of ending this war. He is on the side of enriching his own wealth and power. Putin is his role model. 1 2 Quote
User Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 2 minutes ago, Radiorum said: Yes, he is. No, he isn't. 2 minutes ago, Radiorum said: He is on the side of enriching his own wealth and power. Putin is his role model. How does peace in Ukraine enrich his own wealth and power? How do you know that is his motivation? What do you base any of these asinine assertions on? Quote
Aristides Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 (edited) 22 minutes ago, User said: Ukraine and Russia coming to peace with Ukraine continuing to exist is not surrender. You know what people like you can't come up with? Any other plan. You are just fine with Russia grinding down Ukraine every day for years to come until Ukraine is conquered, so long as we all keep funneling money into that you can feel good about yourselves. That is not a plan. That is not a path to victory. No, he is not on the side of Putin or Russia. He is on the side of ending this war. Trump does want to end this war and his idea of peace is to give Putin everything he wants. Ukraine isn't eve invited to the table. As I said, any fvcking id!ot can come up with that and all it will do is lead to another war, probably the invasion of one or more of the Baltic states because Putin knows the US can no longer be relied on to honour NATO Article 5. Trump isn't acting as a mediator, he is acting as Putin's flunky. Edited March 5 by Aristides 1 1 Quote
User Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 6 minutes ago, Aristides said: Trump does want to end this war and his idea of peace is to give Putin everything he wants. Really... everything? How do you know that? 6 minutes ago, Aristides said: Ukraine isn't eve invited to the table. This is simply not true. Trump has been talking to both Ukraine and Russia on this. 6 minutes ago, Aristides said: As I said No, you didn't say. You, like most of the others, have no plan. You just want to criticize this one. Quote
Radiorum Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 27 minutes ago, Radiorum said: Yes, he is. Trump takes Russia’s side (e.g. the UN vote) and spreads their propaganda. He’s been an asset since the 1980s, when he became a target of a KGB spying operation. In 1987, he traveled to Moscow, where he was fed KGB talking points and flattered. An ex-major involved in the operation recalled: Quote “For the KGB, it was a charm offensive. They had collected a lot of information on his personality so they knew who he was personally. The feeling was that he was extremely vulnerable intellectually, and psychologically, and he was prone to flattery. “This is what they exploited. They played the game as if they were immensely impressed by his personality and believed this is the guy who should be the president of the United States one day: it is people like him who could change the world. They fed him these so-called active measures soundbites and it happened. So it was a big achievement for the KGB active measures at the time.” After that trip, Trump came home and spread skepticism about NATO, even taking out full-page ads in the New York Times, Washington Post, and Boston Globe “on why America should stop paying to defend countries that can afford to defend themselves.” Look, if you can’t see that Trump wants to be Putin, your understanding is very shallow. 26 minutes ago, User said: How does peace in Ukraine enrich his own wealth and power? How do you know that is his motivation? What do you base any of these asinine assertions on? Oh, you simple, simple mind.... 1 Quote
User Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 1 minute ago, Radiorum said: Trump takes Russia’s side (e.g. the UN vote) and spreads their propaganda. He’s been an asset since the 1980s, when he became a target of a KGB spying operation. The UN vote? Then Ukraine is on Russia's side too. You are pushing nothing but baseless conspiratorial garbage with no evidence on him being some asset since the 1980's that the facts here with Ukraine do not even support. Putin invaded on Biden's watch, not Trumps. 3 minutes ago, Radiorum said: Look, if you can’t see that Trump wants to be Putin, your understanding is very shallow. I see truth, facts, and logic. You offer none of that. 3 minutes ago, Radiorum said: Oh, you simple, simple mind.... Come back when you can defend your BS assertions. Quote
Aristides Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 (edited) 23 minutes ago, User said: Really... everything? How do you know that? This is simply not true. Trump has been talking to both Ukraine and Russia on this. No, you didn't say. You, like most of the others, have no plan. You just want to criticize this one. He has publicly berated Zelensky and has cut off all aid and intelligence to Ukraine. That is not the action of a mediator, it is a bully trying to impose his will by intentionally weakening one side and putting it's citizens in danger, which also happens to be Putin's. Edited March 5 by Aristides 1 2 Quote
User Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 Just now, Aristides said: He has publicly berated Zelenski and has cut off all aid and intelligence. That is not the action of a mediator, it is a bully trying to impose his will, which also happens to be Putin's. Right, as Zelensky has also publically disagreed and gone against Trump as well. We are not Ukrainians piggy bank forever and for Zelensky to presume that was a bad move. Especially when he knows what Trump wants. Yet again... you have nothing to offer as to what the alternative is here. 1 Quote
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