Say her name, lefties, because your vote contributed to this young woman's death

[WestCanMan]

On 11/20/2024 at 1:22 PM, robosmith said:

If only you right wingers cared as much about EVERY SCHOOL child killed by your beloved AR-15 style rifles, as you claim to care about one victim of an immigrant escaping drug gangs in Latin America. 🤮

Got news for you perverts, a lot more young women are killed by citizen gun nuts than a rapist from Latin America.

The Fentanyl that Biden let in in the last 4 years will kill more American kids than all the AR-15s ever made will kill in the next 1,000 years, statistically speaking. 

[Deluge]

"Laken Riley", perverts. Say it. 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, User said:

I already told you why. You ignored it. You explicitly said you stopped reading before it. Then I told you again that you ignored it. 

 

Ok, since you are being civil I'll re-open this.  It's not a "game"... I can't proceed past the premise but if you say you explained it further on let's see...

"A single murder is evidence of a problem with the policy. 

The issue is not my foundation. 

If a person dies in a manufacturing plant after getting trapped in an oven... guess what happens? Policy review. How did that person get trapped? What can we do to prevent that? OSHA shows up and checks policy. "

 

 

Ok, well workplace accidents are investigated differently than murders with regards to root causes.  We can examine immigration policy on the whole in terms of costs/effects and we indeed DO that with industrial safety but it's not a good analogy.

Workplace safety is part of industrial and economic sphere, healthcare sphere but the flow of people into/out of the country is broader.  If course if you let people into the country in any sense then some of them will cause problems.  I saw a piece about a camp of Afghan refugees who were brought in after the US pulled out, and these were people who were friendly to the US.  There was an egregious assult in a large camp which some pointed to as evidence that Afghanis shouldn't be allowed in.

I take huge exception to framing arguments this way, which is why I stopped reading your post where I did.

Is a single assault in a camp enough to trigger a policy review on bringing over Afghannis who helped us over there ?

Now, I'm NOT trying to say you're wrong here - I would rather just ask you honest questions and try to figure out the parameters you use in making decisions about a large and complicated topic such as this.  I have disarmed myself... 

Over to you.

 

[User]

49 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Ok, since you are being civil I'll re-open this.  It's not a "game"... I can't proceed past the premise but if you say you explained it further on let's see...

You say you can't proceed past the premise but want me to explain why I have the premise... yes, that is a game. 

50 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Ok, well workplace accidents are investigated differently than murders with regards to root causes.  We can examine immigration policy on the whole in terms of costs/effects and we indeed DO that with industrial safety but it's not a good analogy.

What is the difference here that impacts the point of the comparison?

What specifically makes this a poor analogy?

Your underlying argument is that a single murder is not a problem that constitutes a need for a policy review. 

1. I showed you how in fact, single incidents involving the death of a person are a cause for policy review

2. It is not a single murder. Illegal immigration has resulted in thousands of deaths to include murders and other tragedies from things like DUI's, not even including the violent crimes that result in rape or severe bodily harm. 

This is just one example. 
 

54 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Workplace safety is part of industrial and economic sphere, healthcare sphere but the flow of people into/out of the country is broader.  If course if you let people into the country in any sense then some of them will cause problems.  I saw a piece about a camp of Afghan refugees who were brought in after the US pulled out, and these were people who were friendly to the US.  There was an egregious assult in a large camp which some pointed to as evidence that Afghanis shouldn't be allowed in.

We are not merely talking about immigration. We are very specifically talking about illegal immigration and the refusal to deport illegal immigrants who engage in criminal activity and are caught. 

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

I take huge exception to framing arguments this way, which is why I stopped reading your post where I did.

Good thing I did not frame my argument that way. 

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Is a single assault in a camp enough to trigger a policy review on bringing over Afghannis who helped us over there ?

Yes. 100% yes. 

It is worth understanding who that person was, did they have a violent past, did we miss that, is there a better screening process, were they a repeat offender and why didn't we do anything the first times they were caught...

These are all easy common sense questions to ask and review to ensure other people are not victimized when we can make common sense and easy changes to the policy and process. 

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Now, I'm NOT trying to say you're wrong here - I would rather just ask you honest questions and try to figure out the parameters you use in making decisions about a large and complicated topic such as this.  I have disarmed myself... 

This is not complicated. The problem is only as large as we have allowed it to become. The killer of Laken Riley was here illegally. He had already been arrested for several other crimes and let go. Let go by people more interested in protecting criminals from deportation. People more interested in advancing open borders madness, no matter the cost. Laken Riley would be alive today had this illegal immigrant been deported. Had our Immigration laws been enforced from the outset and this person been deported. 

All the other victims out there who have been raped, violently attacked, and murdered should not have been. 

[CdnFox]

8 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

Give me a break. Manitoba is poor lol. Not like Ontario at all.

 

All i'm saying is that if yuo'd tried a little harder maybe you could have gone somewhere a little more prestigious  and respectable than THAT. LIke MooseJaw Tech or something.  Or like been a hooker. 

 

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

Basic knowledge: If a country's population grows, the crime rate will grow. It will parallel the growth rate of said country.

Actually that's not necessarily true. We frequently see that higher density populations have lower per capita crime. It's frequently true in the Americas as well as in Canada that rural areas for example have higher crime rates per capita then more densely populated urban areas.

But none of that would be relevant. There's still no way to determine whether or not the illegal aliens would commit more crimes than natural Born Americans, and given the fact that they have already demonstrated that they're willing to break the law it's reasonable to assume that they might be more willing to break other laws per capita

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, User said:

1. You say you can't proceed past the premise but want me to explain why I have the premise... yes, that is a game. 

1. Ok - I will read your entire post and respond in good faith if you like.  I'm backtracking and withdrawing my stubborn refusal to engage with you.

But if you don't trust me to do this in good faith then we should just not bother because why engage with someone you think is trolling you.

Do you believe I can read your post and give an honest assessment, and that we can just discuss what we think or no ?  Your call on this, I can understand completely if not.

[User]

20 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Ok - I will read your entire post and respond in good faith if you like.  I'm backtracking and withdrawing my stubborn refusal to engage with you.

Fair enough, and I will do my best to engage with you earnestly and try to avoid any personal comments. 

 

21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

But if you don't trust me to do this in good faith then we should just not bother because why engage with someone you think is trolling you.

I will give you shot. 

21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Do you believe I can read your post and give an honest assessment, and that we can just discuss what we think or no ?  Your call on this, I can understand completely if not.

I believe you have that capability. 

[NAME REMOVED]

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

 

But none of that would be relevant. There's still no way to determine whether or not the illegal aliens would commit more crimes than natural Born Americans, 

I just published a link from the US Government that clearly states undocumented immigrants are less likely to commit crime than people born in America. *sigh*

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

I just published a link from the US Government that clearly states undocumented immigrants are less likely to commit crime than people born in America. *sigh*

You did not. Publish a link saying that there is very limited research that depends extremely on a number of guesses and assumptions that suggests undocumented immigrants get caught committing less crimes specifically in texas only. 

As was pointed out to you at the time that is hardly proof that undocumented immigrants in general actually do. 

So the fact you'd need to lie about that strongly suggests you know you're wrong and are trying to cover it. 

[Legato]

8 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

I just published a link from the US Government that clearly states undocumented immigrants are less likely to commit crime than people born in America. *sigh*

That's a poor argument. If the illegals were not there in the first place then no crime could have been committed.

[NAME REMOVED]

4 minutes ago, Legato said:

 If the illegals were not there in the first place then no crime could have been committed.

 If the US citizens were not there in the first place then no crime could have been committed.  

9 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You did not. Publish a link saying that there is very limited research that depends extremely on a number of guesses and assumptions that suggests undocumented immigrants get caught committing less crimes specifically in texas only. 

As was pointed out to you at the time that is hardly proof that undocumented immigrants in general actually do. 

So the fact you'd need to lie about that strongly suggests you know you're wrong and are trying to cover it. 

You can't admit that you are wrong. 

 

Sad.

[Legato]

5 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

 If the US citizens were not there in the first place then no crime could have been committed.  

You can't admit that you are wrong. 

 

Sad.

But the US citizens have a right to be there, illegals do not. Your argument like all of them are moot.

[CdnFox]

7 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

 

You can't admit that you are wrong. 

sure I can. And if occasion ever arises I will   

The problem is you can't refute my points and now your butthurt about it.

[NAME REMOVED]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

sure I can. And if occasion ever arises I will   

The problem is you can't refute my points and now your butthurt about it.

You never have any valid points, so it would be challenging to do so....

4 minutes ago, Legato said:

But the US citizens have a right to be there, illegals do not. Your argument like all of them are moot.

Elon Musk entered the country illegally. Why not deport him?

[CdnFox]

Just now, DUI_Offender said:

You never have any valid points, so it would be challenging to do so....

Sure sure kid    I get it. Every time you say something stupid I wind up pointing it out. Or even when you make a half-ass decent argument that's just wrong it gets pointed out to you. And rather than getting stronger or learning to make better arguments you want to pout and cry and snivel and try somehow to make it my fault.

Everything I said was 100% accurate and Verifiable according to the links you yourself posted. Next time you need to think a little bit more before simply doing a quick Google search and posting it without actually reading the material. And if you do screw up like that then you need to learn to address that and come at your argument a different way without doubling down on being stupid and pretending that the evidence says something it doesn't.

At the end of the day getting mad at me for being right achieves nothing for you. Acknowledging that I am right at least in your mind and learning how to do better so that next time I won't have the opportunity to point out you're wrong would make more sense

[NAME REMOVED]

7 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

The Fentanyl that Biden let in in the last 4 years will kill more American kids than all the AR-15s ever made will kill in the next 1,000 years, statistically speaking. 

The new data show overdose deaths involving opioids decreased from an estimated 84,181 in 2022 to 81,083 in 2023. While overdose deaths from synthetic opioids (primarily fentanyl) decreased in 2023 compared to 2022, cocaine and psychostimulants (like methamphetamine) increased.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2024/20240515.htm

The CDC's data shows that gun violence claimed 46,728 lives in 2023, marking the third-highest number of gun-related deaths ever recorded in the United States. The overall gun death rate did see a 3% decline from 2022, resulting in 1,476 fewer deaths.

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/center-for-gun-violence-solutions/2024/continuing-trends-five-key-takeaways-from-2023-cdc-provisional-gun-violence-data#:~:text=The CDC's data shows that,resulting in 1%2C476 fewer deaths.

 

----- Once again, @WestCanMan is proven wrong...

Edited November 22, 2024 by DUI_Offender

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, DUI_Offender said:

The new data show overdose deaths involving opioids decreased from an estimated 84,181 in 2022 to 81,083 in 2023. While overdose deaths from synthetic opioids (primarily fentanyl) decreased in 2023 compared to 2022, cocaine and psychostimulants (like methamphetamine) increased.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2024/20240515.htm

The CDC's data shows that gun violence claimed 46,728 lives in 2023, marking the third-highest number of gun-related deaths ever recorded in the United States. The overall gun death rate did see a 3% decline from 2022, resulting in 1,476 fewer deaths.

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/center-for-gun-violence-solutions/2024/continuing-trends-five-key-takeaways-from-2023-cdc-provisional-gun-violence-data#:~:text=The CDC's data shows that,resulting in 1%2C476 fewer deaths.

 

----- ONce again, @CdnFox is proven wrong...

I would be wrong ...  if the CDC was in canada  

But you were arguing with @WestCanMan  not me .  And what he said is that in the states drugs would kill more people than guns. 

And you just proved he was right. 

So not only did you fail to make an argument against the guy you THOUGHT you were arguing against, you lost the argument with the guy you were ACTUALLY arguing with, 

 Well done   

[NAME REMOVED]

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I would be wrong ...  if the CDC was in canada  

But you were arguing with @WestCanMan  not me .  And what he said is that in the states drugs would kill more people than guns. 

And you just proved he was right. 

 

My bad.

You two are so much alike that even I mix you guys up. After all, I even created a thread for you lovebirds;

 

Secondly, I was responding to this:

"The Fentanyl that Biden let in in the last 4 years will kill more American kids than all the AR-15s ever made will kill in the next 1,000 years, statistically speaking."

---

If opioids (mainly fentanyl) don't even kill twice as many people as guns in the average year, how on earth is fentanyl going to kill more Americans in 4 years, than guns will killl in 1,000 years. 

Do the math, cupcake.  Or better yet, read the look "Little Timmy discovers statistics in Grade 6"

Just for you, I also suggest the book "Debate skills for Junior High Students." 

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said:

My bad.You two are so much alike that even I mix you guys up.

 

I'm telling Mom on you.

 

1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said:

If opioids (mainly fentanyl) don't even kill twice as many people as guns in the average year, how on earth is fentanyl going to kill more Americans in 4 years, than guns will killl in 1,000 years. 

I think you misread that a little. I admit it's not written entirely clearly because this is the internet and who bothers, but the way I read it is that even if we were to look at the statistics for the next thousand years if we let fentynal in at the rates we've seen in the last 4 years it  would still kill more people than guns each year., Rather than the way you read it which appears to be the four year supply of fentynal will kill more over the next 1000 years.   I mean i doubt it even lasts 1000 years. 

 

[NAME REMOVED]

7 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

 

I think you misread that a little. I admit it's not written entirely clearly because this is the internet and who bothers, but the way I read it is that even if we were to look at the statistics for the next thousand years if we let fentynal in at the rates we've seen in the last 4 years it  would still kill more people than guns each year., Rather than the way you read it which appears to be the four year supply of fentynal will kill more over the next 1000 years.   I mean i doubt it even lasts 1000 years. 

 

 

This is what I responding to:

9 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

The Fentanyl that Biden let in in the last 4 years will kill more American kids than all the AR-15s ever made will kill in the next 1,000 years, statistically speaking. 

 

For Christmas, I have a book suggestion for you:

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

 

This is what I responding to:

I know. Because you only have grade school English and are unable to be a free thinker outside of a very narrow context you read it to mean one thing. I advised you that it is possible to read it to mean something different than the way you took it and that the way you read it doesn't actually make sense.

You might want to thumb through that book yourself there kiddo    The only thing stupider than bugging somebody about their english comprehension is to screw up while you're doing it because of your weak english comprehension   

[Michael Hardner]

22 hours ago, User said:

You say you can't proceed past the premise but want me to explain why I have the premise... yes, that is a game. 

What is the difference here that impacts the point of the comparison?

What specifically makes this a poor analogy?

Your underlying argument is that a single murder is not a problem that constitutes a need for a policy review. 

1. I showed you how in fact, single incidents involving the death of a person are a cause for policy review

2. It is not a single murder. Illegal immigration has resulted in thousands of deaths to include murders and other tragedies from things like DUI's, not even including the violent crimes that result in rape or severe bodily harm. 

This is just one example. 
 

We are not merely talking about immigration. We are very specifically talking about illegal immigration and the refusal to deport illegal immigrants who engage in criminal activity and are caught. 

Good thing I did not frame my argument that way. 

Yes. 100% yes. 

It is worth understanding who that person was, did they have a violent past, did we miss that, is there a better screening process, were they a repeat offender and why didn't we do anything the first times they were caught...

These are all easy common sense questions to ask and review to ensure other people are not victimized when we can make common sense and easy changes to the policy and process. 

This is not complicated. The problem is only as large as we have allowed it to become. The killer of Laken Riley was here illegally. He had already been arrested for several other crimes and let go. Let go by people more interested in protecting criminals from deportation. People more interested in advancing open borders madness, no matter the cost. Laken Riley would be alive today had this illegal immigrant been deported. Had our Immigration laws been enforced from the outset and this person been deported. 

All the other victims out there who have been raped, violently attacked, and murdered should not have been. 

I think that there enough reason to curtail illegal immigration law n the basics: overcrowding, economic reasons etc.  I find that emotional starting points are used. Cynically. 

If a single unnecessary death is enough of a threshold to trigger a policy discussion then almost any policy can be triggered in this way. FDA, security, education, identity politics...

[User]

57 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I think that there enough reason to curtail illegal immigration law n the basics: overcrowding, economic reasons etc.  I find that emotional starting points are used. Cynically. 

If a single unnecessary death is enough of a threshold to trigger a policy discussion then almost any policy can be triggered in this way. FDA, security, education, identity politics...

Well... first, you completely ignored everything I said and every point I made. You made some comments, and I responded directly to every single one of them. 

You are just back to saying one death is not enough to care about making policy discussion over. Even worse, you bring up other organizations that do in fact make policy discussions around one death. As I already brought up OSHA as an example. 

Finally, I already addressed that this is not just one death, just one example. If you actually bothered to respond to anything I said and not just ignore it, that would help. 

I gave you a chance, and you squandered it. 

 

[Michael Hardner]

4 hours ago, User said:

 

I gave you a chance, and you squandered it. 

 

All I did is explain my take on it. Sorry it wasn't up to snuff for you...

 

There are people who say that someone being treated badly LED them to suicide and so words hurt... We should do something about bad words. Etc

Edited November 23, 2024 by Michael Hardner