The Very Real Scenario Where Trump Loses and Takes Power Anyway

[Moonlight Graham]

6 hours ago, Fluffypants said:

Which swing states are currently controlled by the GOP? Michigan isn't, Georgia has shown they won't do it, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, Wisconsin aren't either.

I think it would be far more likely that the Dems would pull that stuff rather than the Republicans.

 

The Dems have never pulled that stuff, and neither have the GOP before Trump.  Even the state GOP wouldn't go along with it.  It's just Trump.  He's a danger to democracy.  It's a failure of the system he's even able to run in the election.  His cheerleaders hate democracy.

[User]

30 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The Dems have never pulled that stuff, and neither have the GOP before Trump.  Even the state GOP wouldn't go along with it.  It's just Trump.  He's a danger to democracy.  It's a failure of the system he's even able to run in the election.  His cheerleaders hate democracy.

What?

Lets skip over Gore trying to steal the election back in 2000 and just about every Democrat I have ever met saying the SCOTUS stole it from him...

What the Democrats did to Trump on day one is unforgivable. They lied about the whole Russian collusion thing and weaponized every aspect of the government to oppose and hinder Trump as President. What the Obama DOJ and FBI did to spend years dragging him through the mud was an outrage and far worse than anything Trump did. 

The notion that somehow everyone was just all unicorns and rainbows before Trump came along is just pure BS. 

[Moonlight Graham]

2 minutes ago, User said:

What?

Lets skip over Gore trying to steal the election back in 2000 and just about every Democrat I have ever met saying the SCOTUS stole it from him...

What the Democrats did to Trump on day one is unforgivable. They lied about the whole Russian collusion thing and weaponized every aspect of the government to oppose and hinder Trump as President. What the Obama DOJ and FBI did to spend years dragging him through the mud was an outrage and far worse than anything Trump did. 

The notion that somehow everyone was just all unicorns and rainbows before Trump came along is just pure BS. 

Gore conceded and honoured the decision of the SCOTUS.  Gore didn't have White House lawyers create fake electoral college ballot schemes and try to convince state legislators to go along with the voter fraud, hmm?  And call Clinton a traitor for not going along with it?  Or tweet nothing until 3 hours after rioters started ransacking Capitol Hill trying to confirm Dubya's nomination?

Trump's campaign was in contact with Russian government officials throughout his 2015 election campaign.  Sounds a little suspicious don't you think?  Should have some investigation don't you think?  Anyone who believes these were innocent contacts is an imbecile.

[Fluffypants]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The Dems have never pulled that stuff, and neither have the GOP before Trump.  Even the state GOP wouldn't go along with it.  It's just Trump.  He's a danger to democracy.  It's a failure of the system he's even able to run in the election.  His cheerleaders hate democracy.

Lets see how this goes if and when Trump wins. How much do you bet they have articles of impeachment drawn up before he even takes the oath.

 

[CdnFox]

7 hours ago, SkyHigh said:

I agree? I think, but with some pretty big caveats.

First, this kind of rhetoric is prevalent on both sides. In this case it's a politico article, which I know, you know, doesn't compare to Trump calling Harris things like Marxist 

Second, Trump is maybe the least qualified person to run for office in my life time and regardless of his hyperbole wasn't very effective in implementing policies he ran on. 

Third, I don't think project 2025 should be dismissed that easily. I don't think trump was involved in or even understands the  inner workings of government (or tariffs, health care, taxes, the constitution, etc, etc etc.) but It was written by many former Trump staffers, through the heritage foundation, who we know were very influential particularly in the selection of supreme Court justices. (Another thing he doesn't understand)

First - sure. But it's gotten excessive or perhaps more accurately to the exclusion of everything else on the dem side, in the sense that it's all they talk about. 

Where most parties might say "his plans are horrible his track record abysmal oh and he's also a poopy-head" the dems these days are completely focused on wilder and wilder crazy personal stuff and theories about how this will be the last election if he wins. etc.   

I'm not really saying they're bad for doing it tho, my point was it's not effective. 

Second - trump's term in office was pretty good.  Certainly not as good as HE thinks it was  but a hell of a lot better than most dems would claim. If you look at the raw numbers he did pretty well.  Economy up (sharper than obama had it),  world peace up, allies spending on military up, peace deals up, inflation stable, jobs strong, etc etc.  If i took the numbers and the world events and showed them to you without you knowing it was trump you'd probably say 'well this president wasn't bad". 

 

third - when trump claims 2025 is his policy, then it'll be relevant. The fact that people that worked for trump like it means nothing. Trump has NO problem saying what he believes in (even if it does change fairly frequently  ) .   If he thought it was a good idea he'd say so loud and proud and expect you to be happy about it. Say what you like about the guy but you' can't say he's afraid to toot his own horn, that's for sure. 

 

 

[SkyHigh]

2 hours ago, Hodad said:

The only reason that he failed to throw us into an unprecedented (and highly combustible) constitutional crisis is that Mike Pence found his backbone and upheld his oath. Everyone else went along. They tried to hand him the fake electors on the floor of the Senate.-- This was not an idle threat. It was a very near miss.

And don't mistake the situation now. The OP covered it, so I don't need to rehash, but because of our near miss they clarified that law regarding the VPs responsibility and eliminate the specious Eastman argument. But that also binds Harris. If those alternate electors come to her backed by state officials (some of whom are friendly to the effort) it creates a gray area where we could very easily end up in contingent election.

Ask yourself this, if that threat is a "straw" then why did the MAGA acolytes spend 4 years and millions of dollars to put their people in key positions? It clearly matters to them, so it should be of concern to everyone else. 

Many otherwise educated voters DO NOT understand how close we came to losing the republic 4 years ago. You are educated, and you don't take that incident seriously.🤷‍♂️

I don't think I would really consider myself an educated voter when it comes to the USA and am not saying that this is impossible (yes I did say improbable) I just don't think this line of argument is effective and the best way to prevent what the op predicts is to motivate the reasonable people to vote and I don't think this is the way to do it 

[User]

3 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Gore conceded and honoured the decision of the SCOTUS.  Gore didn't have White House lawyers create fake electoral college ballot schemes and try to convince state legislators to go along with the voter fraud, hmm?  And call Clinton a traitor for not going along with it?  Or tweet nothing until 3 hours after rioters started ransacking Capitol Hill trying to confirm Dubya's nomination?

Trump's campaign was in contact with Russian government officials throughout his 2015 election campaign.  Sounds a little suspicious don't you think?  Should have some investigation don't you think?  Anyone who believes these were innocent contacts is an imbecile.

Yeah... Gore conceded over a MONTH after the election only after he pushed it to the SCOTUS. Gore was livid that his VP running mate threw him and his campaign under the bus on the military ballots. 

Guess what, Trump conceded after his efforts failed to. 

Sounds suspicious? 

So lets try to derail his whole presidency with trumped up lies...

Here we are years later, you got no better argument than to ask a question about seems suspicious... that is the kind of crap an imbecile would do. 

[Moonlight Graham]

5 hours ago, User said:

Yeah... Gore conceded over a MONTH after the election only after he pushed it to the SCOTUS. Gore was livid that his VP running mate threw him and his campaign under the bus on the military ballots. 

Guess what, Trump conceded after his efforts failed to. 

Sounds suspicious? 

The 2000 election was actually extremely close in Florida though.  Almost 6 million votes were cast and Bush won by only 537 votes LOL.  Media had called the state and the election for Gore and then the recount flipped it.  17 counties flipped from Democrat to GOP after the recount, with "hanging chads" and other issues.  Bush won by 1 single electoral college vote.  How is that any way comparable to Trump rambling about vague "election fraud" with no evidence?  He still says the election was stolen to this day when there's no evidence.  At least Gore could make some kind of argument that was somewhat understandable and at least he didn't try to fraud his way to a win when he lost.
 

Quote

 

So lets try to derail his whole presidency with trumped up lies...

Here we are years later, you got no better argument than to ask a question about seems suspicious... that is the kind of crap an imbecile would do. 

 

Please tell me why members of the Trump campaign were SECRETLY meeting hundreds of times with Russian government officials?  Just having a friendly brunch and talking about the weather and the latest sports scores?

Edited October 26, 2024 by Moonlight Graham

[User]

11 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The 2000 election was actually extremely close in Florida though. 

"extrmely close" is subjective. The 2020 election was extremely close in key battleground states too. So what?

That doesn't make what Gore did great. 

11 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Media had called the state and the election for Gore and then the recount flipped it. 

What kind of revisionist history is this?

The recount did not flip it. The count always showed Bush won. The recount showed Bush won. 

If anything, the media skewed that election for Gore. They said the polls closed an hour before they did when the Panhandle voters still had an hour to vote. The panhandle was also more Conservative as well. Who knows how many people didn't vote because they thought the election was over when they still had time. 

11 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

How is that any way comparable to Trump rambling about vague "election fraud" with no evidence?

Gore was trying to selectively recount counties in a way most advantageous to him. He was not interested in counting all the votes, he was interested in how he could scheme to count them in a way he won. 

THAT is why what he did was no better than Trump. 

11 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

He still says the election was stolen to this day when there's no evidence. 

Yes, and Gore has publically questioned the results as well, as do Democrats to this day, who say the SCOTUS stole the election from him. 

Do you believe Gore should have won and that the SCOTUS stole this from him?

11 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Please tell me why members of the Trump campaign were SECRETLY meeting hundreds of times with Russian government officials?  Just having a friendly brunch and talking about the weather and the latest sports scores?

You tell me. This is your dumb argument. The guy I know who everyone makes a big deal about was on the campaign team for a few months and then fired. 

Does that justify Democrats like Adam Schiff coming out every week saying they have the evidence, Trump is guilty, and just you wait, it will all come out this week! Then next week Adam Schiff is out doing it again with Democrats cheering him on. 

Give me a break, even now you are playing this same dumb game YEARS AFTER we know there is no evidence of Trump doing something evil and nefarious with Russia to steal the election from Clinton. You are STILL pushing the innuendo that he was. 

Pathetic. 

You have no room to sit here complaining about anything Trump has done. You are just fine pushing the same games and defending them. 

[Moonlight Graham]

@Michael Hardner said:
 

Quote

Graham I don't dislike you.

In fact, I like you very much as a poster which is why I get more irritated when I disagree with your manner of thinking (not your opinions but how you arrive at them) and more irritated than when a chud just grunts out some inconsidered opinion.

Your take on social progressivism, as it is today, just comments on our public morality.  People have freedom to pursue what they want in an open society.  I don't like a lot of the choices they make either, chiefly when it comes to people refusing to challenge themselves, to sacrifice anything, to think carefully, to empathize etc.  But this is what it is, and we have to work with how people are as much or more as we try to shape behaviour as ... undesirable or negative.

It's a pretty deep topic though, and comes down to asking who we are, what is right/wrong, and such...

And I didn't have time to re-read my 10-point response either... too many chores with the family.   It's a shame because I would really enjoy exploring the topic but sadly my time is no longer my own in this life.

I want to open-mouth kiss you while fingering your stink hole.  But sincerely, thanks for the compliments.

I don't think you fully realize what's happening to our society.  The threat that leftism is socially and culturally, and what is taking hold, slowly, over many decades.  This goes far beyond "wokeness" or what race the actress in The Little Mermaid remake is.  It is an ideology that's a suicidal death cult.  It is the Jimmy Carter's and Neville Chamberlain's of the world taking the reigns and leading us into battle.  The progressives criticize the patriarchy, and sometimes with good reason, but nobody messed with Winston Churchill or Dwight Eisenhower.   The progressives brainwashed me into their belief system growing up.  It took me decades but I've broken out of it.  Free your mind Michael.  I'm trying to make you see the light.  In a world filled with wolves, nice guys finish last.  You're far too indoctrinated and compliant to ever get it though.  Oh well.

You need a strong assertive "masculine" type to defend a country.  It doesn't have to be a man (see Margaret Thatcher).  Trudeau behaves like a woman (feminine).  Putin would eat him alive.  Let's stop worrying about everyone's feelings and call a spade a spade.  Truth > feelings.

At some point we have to stand up for ourselves and take pride in who we are.  The left is much too crippled with guilt to do that.

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

@Michael Hardner said:
 

1. I want to open-mouth ...

2. But sincerely, thanks for the compliments.

3. I don't think you fully realize what's happening to our society.  The threat that leftism is socially and culturally, and what is taking hold, slowly, over many decades.  This goes far beyond "wokeness" or what race the actress in The Little Mermaid remake is.  It is an ideology that's a suicidal death cult.  It is the Jimmy Carter's and Neville Chamberlain's of the world taking the reigns and leading us into battle.  The progressives criticize the patriarchy, and sometimes with good reason, but nobody messed with Winston Churchill or Dwight Eisenhower.   The progressives brainwashed me into their belief system growing up.  It took me decades but I've broken out of it.  Free your mind Michael.  I'm trying to make you see the light.  In a world filled with wolves, nice guys finish last.  You're far too indoctrinated and compliant to ever get it though.  Oh well.

4. You need a strong assertive "masculine" type to defend a country.  It doesn't have to be a man (see Margaret Thatcher).  Trudeau behaves like a woman (feminine).  Putin would eat him alive.  Let's stop worrying about everyone's feelings and call a spade a spade.  Truth > feelings.

5. At some point we have to stand up for ourselves and take pride in who we are.  The left is much too crippled with guilt to do that.

1. You are gross.
2. Whatever.  I give them begrudgingly.

Edited to add: I am sincere, and I think congeniality has its place on these forums.  But the begrudging part is that there's too much personal interaction on here IMO. I guess I have to accept the positive at least, given that there's so much negative so thanks for that.

An independent web forum like this is maybe what saves us in the future. Unlike Facebook, Twitter, threads, there is no algorithm from the central control deciding what we can see.

3. This is what I mean by paranoia.  You can't draw a line around the freedoms that come from progressivity and things that don't because it's all part of something called social change.   I challenge you to explain to me where the line can be drawn ... in the end I suspect you will just circle particular aspects of social change that you don't like.
And I don't like all aspects of social change either: the creeping laziness,  death of respect for thought leaders, abject materialism and yes the decline of religion too.  But that's freedom.
You want to put it all under 'progressivism' but it's a ghost because you embrace lots of aspects of progressivism just as progressives embrace lots of aspects of capitalism.
4.  I'm pretty sure Trudeau could kick your ass in a boxing ring.  Truth > feeling also when the feelings are blind stupid anger and ignorance.
5. How can we take pride in ourselves when we're a generation who orders sandwiches delivered to our home for $20 ?  When our political leaders get on stage and make dick jokes about each other ?

 

I'm hoping with #5 you may start to realize that I actually hold the same level of disgust with our collective morality ... but I think it's across the board in our culture.  Nostaligia for a bygone time won't fix it.  I do think strong leadership and personal responsibility will.  

Edited October 27, 2024 by Michael Hardner

[Moonlight Graham]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. You are gross.
2. Whatever.  I give them begrudgingly.

Edited to add: I am sincere, and I think congeniality has its place on these forums.  But the begrudging part is that there's too much personal interaction on here IMO. I guess I have to accept the positive at least, given that there's so much negative so thanks for that.

An independent web forum like this is maybe what saves us in the future. Unlike Facebook, Twitter, threads, there is no algorithm from the central control deciding what we can see.

3. This is what I mean by paranoia.  You can't draw a line around the freedoms that come from progressivity and things that don't because it's all part of something called social change.   I challenge you to explain to me where the line can be drawn ... in the end I suspect you will just circle particular aspects of social change that you don't like.
And I don't like all aspects of social change either: the creeping laziness,  death of respect for thought leaders, abject materialism and yes the decline of religion too.  But that's freedom.
You want to put it all under 'progressivism' but it's a ghost because you embrace lots of aspects of progressivism just as progressives embrace lots of aspects of capitalism.
4.  I'm pretty sure Trudeau could kick your ass in a boxing ring.  Truth > feeling also when the feelings are blind stupid anger and ignorance.
5. How can we take pride in ourselves when we're a generation who orders sandwiches delivered to our home for $20 ?  When our political leaders get on stage and make dick jokes about each other ?

 

I'm hoping with #5 you may start to realize that I actually hold the same level of disgust with our collective morality ... but I think it's across the board in our culture.  Nostaligia for a bygone time won't fix it.  I do think strong leadership and personal responsibility will.  

3.  Social change is a choice.  It's based on our beliefs of right and wrong.  Collective morality, but each decision is made by the individual.  Having a career instead of having children is not a collective choice, its made one couple and one woman at a time.  As I originally stated, not all aspects of progressive morality or feminism is bad.  But a bunch of it is, and its destroying western civilization.  Prove me wrong.

4.  My arguments are well thought-out, not based on blind stupid anger and ignorance.  I think a lot about these issues.  I'm not a chud.  Trudeau makes me mad.  That's because he's been harming this country for a decade, not because he crosses his legs when he sits down.

5.  I'm a proud Canadian and won't apologize for it.  I'm not ashamed to be white, I don't feel guilty for being white in any way whatsoever.  White people have done many bad things in history.  But compared to who?  Are Africans and Arabs and Asians or first nations any better either now or through history?  It's fine to criticize "white people" for past wrongs, but if e.g. an African-American thinks we're some unique evil to be resented then go look at sub-saharan Africa right now and see how they treat each other.  And maybe ask why west Africans invaded nearby villages and kidnapped their men and women and sold them into slavery to the white man.  Ask an indigenous person why indigenous men are raping and killing so many indigenous women.  Is that all the white man's fault.  No.  This whole leftwing oppressor-victim ideology is toxic.  This rant would get me fired today.   #woke #PC #doublestandards #whiteguilt

6.  Ok great.  Our leadership right now sucks.  What's the problem then?  The visa removals were a bad policy.  Prove me wrong.  Stop looking for excuses.

Trudeau isn't just a bad policy maker, he's also a bad person.  A selfish and corrupt and unethical person.  Just like Donald Trump is.  It's ok to say these things.  It's ok to be angry at unethical leaders damaging our countries.  This is the place to express those feelings.

Edited October 27, 2024 by Moonlight Graham

[Michael Hardner]

25 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1. ...its destroying western civilization.  Prove me wrong.

2.  My arguments are well thought-out, not based on blind stupid anger and ignorance.  I think a lot about these issues.  I'm not a chud.  Trudeau makes me mad.  That's because he's been harming this country for a decade, not because he crosses his legs when he sits down.

3.  Are Africans and Arabs and Asians or first nations any better either now or through history?

4.  It's fine to criticize "white people" for past wrongs, but if e.g. an African-American thinks we're some unique evil to be resented then go look at sub-saharan Africa right now and see how they treat each other.  And maybe ask why west Africans invaded nearby villages and kidnapped their men and women and sold them into slavery to the white man.  Ask an indigenous person why indigenous men are raping and killing so many indigenous women.  Is that all the white man's fault.  No.  This whole leftwing oppressor-victim ideology is toxic.  This rant would get me fired today.   #woke #PC #doublestandards #whiteguilt

5.  Ok great.  Our leadership right now sucks.  What's the problem then?   

1. Destroying because the growth economy can't be sustained ?  And how is this manifesting itself as a problem for most people ?  Lower wages ?  Fewer options ?  Some of these things may be cracks in our economic model itself.  Do you think we could go back to the good old days if women started withdrawing from the workplace as a social trend ?  Because that would be a lot of economic activity that would disappear.

2. Ok.  

3. I think they're all doing better, don't you?

4. Blaming or crediting any group of people for history is dumb.  You can't excuse white people from genocides and colonization and also praise them for being on top of the world.  I will neither praise nor condemn any race or ethnic group for how they fared through history.

5. We don't have moral or intellectual leadership.  Tiny building blocks to create such things exist, such as this board.  But they exist to enable sniping and bickering for entertainment clicks.