Nationalist Posted September 29, 2024 Report Posted September 29, 2024 1 hour ago, robosmith said: Hey tell us again how you don't understand it was Trump's disastrous handling of the pandemic that disrupted the supply chains THAT CAUSED the inflation AFTER demand soared under Biden. Are you completely CLUELESS about how much more rapidly demand can soar than supply? LMAO Of course you are completely ignorant about Trump's economy COLLAPSING in 2020 due to his disastrous handling of the pandemic. See numerous super-spreader events. 🤮 Lol...just...lol... 13 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said: Then to make up for the cuts, increase taxes on the working class and middle class, which is a recipe for disaster considering less Americans will be able to afford anything but the basic necessities. The businesses who count on consumers buying their luxury items will suffer. Do Putin's bidding, considering it was Russian oligarchs that bailed Trump out of bankruptcy in the early 2000s. Again...who said any taxes would go up? Oh right...Kamala. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Rebound Posted September 29, 2024 Author Report Posted September 29, 2024 (edited) 2 hours ago, CdnFox said: I love that your best rebuttal was to be a grammar nazi "You use AJECTIVES?!?!!? AND YOU"RE ASSUMING THE ECONOMY'S PRONOUNS!!!!!!" Kid, the stock market, unemployment and GDP ( i assume the n was a typo, GNP would be a weird number to refer to in that context). all did well under trump. They were good. Trump did just fine. Deficit spending is a valid criticism but the other things were not. Sure. Biden is inflating it artificially with massive spending and deficits. JUST SO people like you could make that ridiculous claim I've written about this before with you with charts and graphs and all kinds of explanations. But the problem is that creates a false economy at at some point you can't just keep increasing borrowing and spending forever. First off - it leads to inflation and the only way to beat that is to then hurt the economy, which is what everyone's concerned about right now. And second it tends to lead to economic development that's not following the natural market forces and therefore when that stimulus stops it hurts the economy worse than it would when companies evolved and grew based on natural market forces. And of course even if your claim was true that the stock market represents biden doing really well... that would NOT mean trump did badly. So. that's 3 misses kid, yer ou Once again, nothing but Bull-fu*king-shlt out of you. “I’ve got the greatest biggerest bestest plan! But I can’t show you, it’s secret, but it’s so good!” Show us these “wonderful” stock market, unemployment, and gdp figures. They all TANKED under Trump. Just like Bush, Trump passed off a COLLAPSED ECONOMY to a Democrat successor who turned it around completely. The Dow was 20,000 under Trump and it’s over 42,000 today. And Trump racked up far larger deficits than Biden. The only economic statistic that’s bad for Biden is inflation, which is a GLOBAL phenomenon today. And by the way, the dumb motherfu*ker you’re supporting, Trump, has not explained in any way how he will reduce inflation. I can tell you that across the board 20% tariffs and a 60% across the board China tariff will vastly increase prices, FAR MORE than the inflation under Biden. Harris’ plan of targeting manufacturing in the USA is a far better way to create economic growth in the USA and without the tariffs we’ll be able to export those goods. Edited September 29, 2024 by Rebound 1 Quote @reason10: “Hitler had very little to do with the Holocaust.”
User Posted September 29, 2024 Report Posted September 29, 2024 5 minutes ago, Rebound said: Show us these “wonderful” stock market, unemployment, and gdp figures. They all TANKED under Trump. Just like Bush, Trump passed off a COLLAPSED ECONOMY to a Democrat successor who turned it around completely. The Dow was 20,000 under Trump and it’s over 42,000 today. And Trump racked up far larger deficits than Biden. You are just going to keep pushing the same lie over and over and over again and run away from when it is called out. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."
Rebound Posted September 29, 2024 Author Report Posted September 29, 2024 3 minutes ago, User said: You are just going to keep pushing the same lie over and over and over again and run away from when it is called out. The figures are all published. Easy to find. You know they all are better for Biden than Trump, that’s why you never pull them out. Biden’s only economy failing is inflation. 1 Quote @reason10: “Hitler had very little to do with the Holocaust.”
User Posted September 29, 2024 Report Posted September 29, 2024 2 minutes ago, Rebound said: The figures are all published. Easy to find. You know they all are better for Biden than Trump, that’s why you never pull them out. Biden’s only economy failing is inflation. Yes, the figures are published... and you are here pushing this lie. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."
DUI_Offender Posted September 29, 2024 Report Posted September 29, 2024 23 minutes ago, Nationalist said: I haven't heard Trump intends on raising anyone's taxes. You're making sh1t up now. You libbies just don't understand macroeconomics at all. All you care about is how much free money you can spend. Man y'all would love shopping with my wife and our niece. Ok then. Tell me about macro economics.... Quote
CdnFox Posted September 29, 2024 Report Posted September 29, 2024 8 minutes ago, Rebound said: The figures are all published. Easy to find. You know they all are better for Biden than Trump, that’s why you never pull them out. Biden’s only economy failing is inflation. Kid, the numbers are published and they show you're wrong Lets just take deficits. Federal Surplus or Deficit [-] (FYFSD) | FRED | St. Louis Fed (stlouisfed.org) Trumps worst pre covid year - 983000 in borrowing Biden's best post covid year? 1,375,000 in borrowing. Biden's best was far worse than trump's worse, and he's had worse since. That's just one. All of the metrics you mention are the same. Biden had a poor economy. Not a complete disaster as some have said but it wasn't good. He borrowed insane amounts of money which lead to massive inflation which lead to higher interest rates and now people have less in spending power than they did when trump was in charge. 1 Quote
Nationalist Posted September 29, 2024 Report Posted September 29, 2024 (edited) 12 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said: Ok then. Tell me about macro economics.... Well first of all, when you create a favorable base for businesses to invest, they will. More employment results in more tax revenue. Bank rates come down and mortgages are more reasonable. We'll start with that... Edited September 29, 2024 by Nationalist Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Rebound Posted September 29, 2024 Author Report Posted September 29, 2024 13 minutes ago, User said: Yes, the figures are published... and you are here pushing this lie. No sir. I provided a chart of Trump’s dismal stock market performance. It’s a clear failure, like his casinos, his airline, his steak business, and on and on. Quote @reason10: “Hitler had very little to do with the Holocaust.”
Rebound Posted September 29, 2024 Author Report Posted September 29, 2024 1 minute ago, Nationalist said: Well first of all, when you create a favorable base for businesses to invest, they will. More employment results in more tax revenue. Bank rates come down and mortgages are more reasonable. We'll start with that... That is why Kamala Harris proposes plans to invest in American manufacturing and industry. Trump doesn’t. Biden has already done this in the semiconductor industry with his CHIPS act. Trump’s plan is to raise massive tariffs. This does not work because it raises prices that Americans pay on nearly everything while obstructing American companies from exporting the goods they manufacture. 1 Quote @reason10: “Hitler had very little to do with the Holocaust.”
Nationalist Posted September 29, 2024 Report Posted September 29, 2024 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Rebound said: That is why Kamala Harris proposes plans to invest in American manufacturing and industry. Trump doesn’t. Biden has already done this in the semiconductor industry with his CHIPS act. Trump’s plan is to raise massive tariffs. This does not work because it raises prices that Americans pay on nearly everything while obstructing American companies from exporting the goods they manufacture. Invest? Print more dough-rae-mee dollars more like. You can't buy your way out of a recession. Oh BTW...well done tariffs work. That's why trump's China tariffs are still in place. Edited September 29, 2024 by Nationalist Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
DUI_Offender Posted September 29, 2024 Report Posted September 29, 2024 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Well first of all, when you create a favorable base for businesses to invest, they will. Mor employment results in more tax revenue. Bank rates come down and mortgages are more reasonable. We'll start with that... When huge businesses like Walmart, Costco, etc. have their taxes cut from 23% to 8%, it creates a problem for the Government. They now have all these big businesses that would have paid literally trillions in taxes, paying 1/3 of what they have historically paid. That means the US Government has to find way to recuperate the losses. The Trump administration wants to raise taxes for the poorest working people. That will not help the economy. In fact, this is what many 3rd World countries do. They tax big businesses as little as possible. Only in their cases, the trade off is no workers rights, no old age security, no medical benefits, no social system, cuts in infrastructure, health, and education. The money has to come from somewhere, and by virtually eliminating taxes for the wealthiest corporations, it will be placed on the working and middle class to make up for the loss. Either that, or the USA will be forced to do what other 3rd World countires have done- kill off health care, infrastructure, education, social services, old age security, etc. Edited September 29, 2024 by DUI_Offender Quote
DUI_Offender Posted September 29, 2024 Report Posted September 29, 2024 6 minutes ago, Rebound said: That is why Kamala Harris proposes plans to invest in American manufacturing and industry. Trump doesn’t. Biden has already done this in the semiconductor industry with his CHIPS act. Trump’s plan is to raise massive tariffs. This does not work because it raises prices that Americans pay on nearly everything while obstructing American companies from exporting the goods they manufacture. Exactly. If he places a 40% tariff on China, it will not only create a trade war, that will drive the World into a great depression, but consumers who go to Walmart, Costco, or other stores to buy affordable items from China, will be faced with 40% markups. Which in turn, will make them spend far more on necessities, and less on luxury items (which happen to be American made). It's not smart to declare a trade war on your leading trade partner. 1 Quote
CdnFox Posted September 29, 2024 Report Posted September 29, 2024 1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said: I've posted links to the actual statistics before, but you choose to ignore them, and lie and tell the World that Trump is the greatests jobs President ever. This is reality: From the US Bureau of Labour & Statistics 2023. No ignoring. I pointed out before that you're lying about it. For example under jobs you include the covid shutdowns that trump was forced to do as if that is somehow actual job loss Likewise you include everyone going back to work after covid as being job gains for biden We both know that's a lie. The covid job losses weren't part of the economy. But you're going to try and pretend that somehow trump is personally responsible for covid existing. The fact that you have to be this dishonest proves Beyond a doubt that you are aware that you are lying. And that trump had a better record than Biden for the most part. He certainly had a much better record than Obama. When you can get by without lies then we can have a reasonable conversation but obviously you realize you were in the wrong and that the statistics show that trump's economy pre-covid was strong and healthy Quote
Nationalist Posted September 29, 2024 Report Posted September 29, 2024 7 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said: When huge businesses like Walmart, Costco, etc. have their taxes cut from 23% to 8%, it creates a problem for the Government. They now have all these big businesses that would have paid literally trillions in taxes, paying 1/3 of what they have historically paid. That means the US Government has to find way to recuperate the losses. The Trump administration wants to raise taxes for the poorest working people. That will not help the economy. In fact, this is what many 3rd World countries do. They tax big businesses as little as possible. Only in their cases, the trade off is no workers rights, no old age security, no medical benefits, no social system, cuts in infrastructure, health, and the social security system. The money has to come from somewhere, and by virtually eliminating taxes for the wealthiest corporations, it will be placed on the working and middle class to make up for the loss. Either that, or the USA will be forced to do what other 3rd World countires have done- kill off health care, infrastructure, education, social services, old age security, etc. Dude...breath. in...out...in...out. that's it. Nobody is gonna "kill off health care"...quit making sh1t up. 1 Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
CdnFox Posted September 29, 2024 Report Posted September 29, 2024 6 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said: Exactly. If he places a 40% tariff on China, it will not only create a trade war, that will drive the World into a great depression, but consumers who go to Walmart, Costco, or other stores to buy affordable items from China, will be faced with 40% markups. Which in turn, will make them spend far more on necessities, and less on luxury items (which happen to be American made). It's not smart to declare a trade war on your leading trade partner. well no. Again you don't really understand this stuff. There will be no trade war driving anything into a depression in the slightest. And us manufacturers will spool up to begin supplying the market with various replacement goods, which will benefit the us economy. And they may be able in many cases to produce those things at only 20 percent more than the chinese with investment in equipment which they weren't going to make with the chinese around. further, the chinese will eat some of that tarriff one way or another so the actual pricing doesn't reflect the tarrif one on one. And tremendous pressure will be brought on the chinese to come to the table. Which is why you have tarrifs. Which is why BIDEN had tarrifs. You're acting like there's no tarrifs right now. Quote
DUI_Offender Posted September 29, 2024 Report Posted September 29, 2024 8 minutes ago, CdnFox said: And us manufacturers will spool up to begin supplying the market with various replacement goods, which will benefit the us economy. This statement is so hilarious, since it demonstrates the fact that you have no idea how the World economy works. Sure, people can start to buy America goods. However, they will be far more expensive. The wages in North America are far higher than China. Unless workers agree to make products for $2.50 an hour, the essential products the average American family buys will be dramatically more expensive. Quote
Guest Posted September 29, 2024 Report Posted September 29, 2024 17 minutes ago, CdnFox said: When you can get by without lies then we can have a reasonable conversation Echo? 🤡 Quote
DUI_Offender Posted September 29, 2024 Report Posted September 29, 2024 (edited) 23 minutes ago, CdnFox said: And they may be able in many cases to produce those things at only 20 percent more than the chinese with investment in equipment which they weren't going to make with the chinese around. further, the chinese will eat some of that tarriff one way or another so the actual pricing doesn't reflect the tarrif one on one. And tremendous pressure will be brought on the chinese to come to the table. ..and China will then retaliate by placing tariffs on US-based goods the Chinese buy. The Chinese will also be looking an increased trade in other nations like Russia, India, Europe, Canada, South America, etc. No doubt the Chinese will suffer economically if trump puts ridiculous tariffs in place. However, the US will suffer worse, since it will drive up the price of goods dramatically. Aside from that, you are becoming intolerable. I am putting you on "ignore" again... Edited September 29, 2024 by DUI_Offender Quote
Nationalist Posted September 29, 2024 Report Posted September 29, 2024 1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said: ..and China will then retaliate by placing tariffs on US-based goods the Chinese buy. The Chinese will also be looking an increased trade in other nations like Russia, India, Europe, Canada, South America, etc. No doubt the Chinese will suffer economically if trump puts ridiculous tariffs in place. However, the US will suffer worse, since it will drive up the price of goods dramatically. Aside from that, you are becoming intolerable. I am putting you on "ignore" again... Oh nooo...ignorrrrree.... Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Rebound Posted September 29, 2024 Author Report Posted September 29, 2024 3 hours ago, User said: You are just going to keep pushing the same lie over and over and over again and run away from when it is called out. ”The economy is so bad, you can't afford eggs and bacon“, but please buy my digital cards, my Bible, my ugly sneakers, and yes, my watch too. WTF are you for real, bro Quote @reason10: “Hitler had very little to do with the Holocaust.”
CdnFox Posted September 29, 2024 Report Posted September 29, 2024 2 hours ago, Perspektiv said: Echo? 🤡 If you're hearing an echo, it's most likely because your head is hollow Quote
CdnFox Posted September 29, 2024 Report Posted September 29, 2024 2 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: This statement is so hilarious, since it demonstrates the fact that you have no idea how the World economy works. You think so? Every time you say something like that you wind up looking dumb. Right park boy? It's a better idea to assume i'm probably right and then do your research and be sure before opening your mouth. Lets see if that's what you did. Quote Sure, people can start to buy America goods. However, they will be far more expensive. Oh dear. Nope just dove straight into the stupid. Quote The wages in North America are far higher than China. Unless workers agree to make products for $2.50 an hour, the essential products the average American family buys will be dramatically more expensive. Well no. I'll go through it with you. Let's say china currently makes a widget for 10 dollars. This is due to cheap labour as well as the fact that they've got a lot of factories already built so tooling one of them to make widgets is not a problem. So - an american company can use automation to make the same widget for 10.00. But - why the hell would they? China's already doing it so there's no value. Plus they'd have to buy the equpment and there's no guarantee china wouldn't drop their price to 9.50 long enough to run them out of business. OR - the could also go to another country like the philipines or mexico and set up a shop there and make them for 10 dollars because of the cheap labour - but again that costs money to get started and why would they when they can already get them from the chinese? But now..... the chinese product is going to cost 14 dollars. Suddenly there's an opportunity. They can afford to buy the gear or set up a factory because they will be able to sell for 10.50 and jump into that market and get it for themselves! China's out of the game. MEANWHILE - china in order to get the tarrif reduced will have to agree to access to the chinese market for more and more us goods or agree to things like not invading tiawan. In the meantime the competition is up and running in the states and now the market isn't reliant on china. And that is the super simple dumbed down easy to read version. THe economy is 4 d chess, and you're playing checkers. Quote
Rebound Posted September 29, 2024 Author Report Posted September 29, 2024 23 minutes ago, CdnFox said: You think so? Every time you say something like that you wind up looking dumb. Right park boy? It's a better idea to assume i'm probably right and then do your research and be sure before opening your mouth. Lets see if that's what you did. Oh dear. Nope just dove straight into the stupid. Well no. I'll go through it with you. Let's say china currently makes a widget for 10 dollars. This is due to cheap labour as well as the fact that they've got a lot of factories already built so tooling one of them to make widgets is not a problem. So - an american company can use automation to make the same widget for 10.00. But - why the hell would they? China's already doing it so there's no value. Plus they'd have to buy the equpment and there's no guarantee china wouldn't drop their price to 9.50 long enough to run them out of business. OR - the could also go to another country like the philipines or mexico and set up a shop there and make them for 10 dollars because of the cheap labour - but again that costs money to get started and why would they when they can already get them from the chinese? But now..... the chinese product is going to cost 14 dollars. Suddenly there's an opportunity. They can afford to buy the gear or set up a factory because they will be able to sell for 10.50 and jump into that market and get it for themselves! China's out of the game. MEANWHILE - china in order to get the tarrif reduced will have to agree to access to the chinese market for more and more us goods or agree to things like not invading tiawan. In the meantime the competition is up and running in the states and now the market isn't reliant on china. And that is the super simple dumbed down easy to read version. THe economy is 4 d chess, and you're playing checkers. Yes, a tariff makes sense IF AND WHEN an America steps up to build those $10 widgets, but not across the board on every import, including components used to build the widgets. Quote @reason10: “Hitler had very little to do with the Holocaust.”
CdnFox Posted September 30, 2024 Report Posted September 30, 2024 27 minutes ago, Rebound said: Yes, a tariff makes sense IF AND WHEN an America steps up to build those $10 widgets, but not across the board on every import, including components used to build the widgets. Well it's a question of chicken and the egg. Or I suppose more accurately if you build it they will come. And it still leaves the issue of what china will have to do in order to get those restrictions lifted. So it depends a little on what your goal is. You may very well find that your domestic products benefit in the long run significantly, or you may find that china must give concessions to regain access to the market that are beneficial in ways that may not even be economic. Or it could be a giant mistake and nothing comes of it that's good. Let's face it, economic sanctions are a scalpel, not a hammer. They are not always good. But the point was they're not always bad and the fact that they're being widely applied doesn't change that fact. It depends on what the end goal is and your paths to get there. But you can't make a statement like it's going to be guaranteeing that consumers will face significant economic hardships or that it isn't a benefit to the economy in general. You'd have to know a little bit more about what he's thinking. Quote
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