The Leftard Cultist Talking Point of the Century

[impartialobserver]

Back to the topic...

Real average hourly earnings are up. Nationally, it is up 1.5 percent. In NV, it is up 1.9%. Is this due to Harris or Biden.. not even a little bit. It is due to construction employment being up in certain states. 


https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2024/real-average-hourly-earnings-increased-1-5-percent-from-september-2023-to-september-2024.htm

Edited October 22, 2024 by impartialobserver

[Black Dog]

46 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Jews are not a race kiddo. They're an ethnicity. The nazi's didn't care about accuracy they just hated jews  But we know that jews are not a race. As i demonstrated to you.  I notice you can't deny the source

Your source is irrelevant, I have no idea why you're harping on this.

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The expansion part is completely separable.  Sorry.  

"The Nazi usages of the term Lebensraum were explicitly racial."

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And as far as England goes they knew damn well England was going to be at war with them the moment they invaded poland. They just didn't care. Because the expansion was the important part and if expansion meant going to war with races they liked well so be it.

This isn't entirely true. Hitler was convinced that England would back down over Poland just as they had over Czechoslovakia. He was surprised off when they declared war because he assumed the western powers were Germany's natural allies against Judeo-Bolshevism. 

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The vast vast vast majority of actual Nazi policy was not racial. It was based on their theory of expanding their empire which pre-existed the Nazis had been around for ages, controlling their economics and industry to provide for that war, And reducing inflation and providing social benefits for people.

They were horribly racist, but their policies were not based on race. They were based on the longstanding german belief of expansion of the empire, socialistic control of the market and the provision of services to the people. That is what concerned them 90% of the time

I've countered each of these points already, repeating them won't make them true. It all comes back to race with the Nazis, lying about it repeatedly won't change that.

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You can lie, you can twist, you can pretend, but at the end of the day it's true.

So now we're at the point where you know you're wrong and you're going to hissy fit about it by just simply repeating lies over and over and over again.

You're projecting again. You're clearly incapable of addressing the "why" the Nazis did the things they did while pretending in spite of all evidence that their racial beliefs were somehow separate from or tangential to their political program, even though everything you listed above flows from those beliefs.

Like the fact you can sit here and talk about their economic, social welfare and family policies while ignoring the purpose of those policies, who benefitted and who did not shows you aren't a serious person.

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I've already proven that the expansion policy predated the germans and that the policy may have tied well in with the racism of the Nazis but that wasn't the cause of it or the source of it or even what it was all about. It wasn't about destroying the other races it was about expansion and if the other races they didn't like happened to be in the way so much the better. And if the races they had to fight weren't once they didn't like too bad

You haven't proven jack shit. Again, your own source makes it clear the Nazi's version of lebensraum was inextricably tied to Hitler's belief in the superiority of the German Volk and its natural right to conquer whatever it chose. I have no idea why you're so interested in whitewashing the centrality of the Nazi's racial views to their political and military actions, but it's really a step away from outright denialism.

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Sorry kiddo, I know you really wanted to be right at least once but you're just not. The Nazis themselves were extremely racist but their policies for the most part weren't based on that

This is just comical at this point, you'll be telling me the Holocaust didn't happen next.

 

Edited October 22, 2024 by Black Dog

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Black Dog said:

Your source is irrelevant, I have no idea why you're harping on this.

"The Nazi usages of the term Lebensraum were explicitly racial."

This isn't entirely true. Hitler was convinced that England would back down over Poland just as they had over Czechoslovakia. He was surprised off when they declared war because he assumed the western powers were Germany's natural allies against Judeo-Bolshevism. 

I've countered each of these points already, repeating them won't make them true. It all comes back to race with the Nazis, lying about it repeatedly won't change that.

You're projecting again. You're clearly incapable of addressing the "why" the Nazis did the things they did while pretending in spite of all evidence that their racial beliefs were somehow separate from or tangential to their political program, even though everything you listed above flows from those beliefs.

Like the fact you can sit here and talk about their economic, social welfare and family policies while ignoring the purpose of those policies, who benefitted and who did not shows you aren't a serious person.

You haven't proven jack shit. Again, your own source makes it clear the Nazi's version of lebensraum was inextricably tied to Hitler's belief in the superiority of the German Volk and its natural right to conquer whatever it chose. I have no idea why you're so interested in whitewashing the centrality of the Nazi's racial views to their political and military actions, but it's really a step away from outright denialism.

This is just comical at this point, you'll be telling me the Holocaust didn't happen next.

 

LOL  

Still can't counter any of the sources or info huh   Still playing the 'twist what was said and ignore the evidence' game? Well... guess that's how you cope. 

Sorry kiddo. Better luck next time   the nazis were racist but most of their actual policies weren't about race   Sorry that losing leaves you so butthurt but you should try researching before you post next time.

[Black Dog]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

LOL  

Still can't counter any of the sources or info huh   Still playing the 'twist what was said and ignore the evidence' game? Well... guess that's how you cope. 

What sources and info? The wiki page I posted that proves you wrong? You haven't posted anything else, as per usual. Not a link

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Sorry kiddo. Better luck next time   the nazis were racist but most of their actual policies weren't about race  

lol every time

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 Sorry that losing leaves you so butthurt but you should try researching before you post next time.

 

I understand this is an important a survival mechanism because if you had to confront the reality of what a massive loser b!tch you are, you'd probably kill yourself.

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, Black Dog said:

What sources and info? The wiki page I posted that proves you wrong? You haven't posted anything else, as per usual. Not a link

lol every time

I understand this is an important a survival mechanism because if you had to confront the reality of what a massive loser b!tch you are, you'd probably kill yourself.

Ooops - your dementia set in again   And now you're reduced to memes, never a good sign  

I like your attempt at mimicry tho, makes a nice break from your weird fantasizing. 

[Black Dog]

12 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Ooops - your dementia set in again   And now you're reduced to memes, never a good sign  

I like your attempt at mimicry tho, makes a nice break from your weird fantasizing. 

It's not a meme, it's an accurate representation of your posting style. Just repeating the same shit over and over and over like a NPC from a shitty RPG. It's where you always end up because you're a loser who can't resist losing.

In fairness I will give you the fact you posted a source for your claim that Jews are not a race, a completely irrelevant point that no one was even disputing.

Edited October 22, 2024 by Black Dog

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, Black Dog said:

It's not a meme, it's an accurate representation of your posting style.

It's a meme. It's really all you've got left.

And you were absolutely 100% disputing that Jews were not a race   But I'm glad that you have now realized that I was once again correct.

The Nazis were horrible racist people and a racist party but most of their actual policies didn't involve racism. It was mostly about dealing with inflation and the economy and improving social services  controlling industry to provide for the states needs (which they saw as being imperial expansion) and pursuing that expansion.  Regardless of the motivations, those were the primary policies that took up most of their time 

[Black Dog]

12 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

It's a meme. It's really all you've got left.

And you were absolutely 100% disputing that Jews were not a race   But I'm glad that you have now realized that I was once again correct.

I'd ask to back this up but we know how that would go (nowhere, because you're lying).

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The Nazis were horrible racist people and a racist party but most of their actual policies didn't involve racism. It was mostly about dealing with inflation and the economy and improving social services  controlling industry to provide for the states needs (which they saw as being imperial expansion) and pursuing that expansion.  Regardless of the motivations, those were the primary policies that took up most of their time 

Yeah see I was right: you have to ignore the motivations and intentions of most of these policies because if you consider the whys and what-fors, your whole argument crumbles into dust in the face of the simple cold logic that the purpose of the Nazis entire political project was the advancement of the Aryan Volk and subjugation of other races. You've created some fantasy world where laws prohibiting Jews and other groups from participating in the economic and social life of the country, where policies to promote Aryan families and racial purity (such as eugenics programs), and a plan to carry out the large-scale ethnic cleansing/genocide of Slavs, Eastern European Jews, and other indigenous peoples of Eastern Europe were all somehow race-neutral. It's laughable, you're a joke.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

I'd ask to back this up but we know how that would go (nowhere, because you're lying).

 

LOL everyone can see it!! It's in this very thread, you insisted otherwise  

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

you have to ignore the motivations and intentions of most of these policies

The motivations and intentions are utterly pointless to this discussion.

I've already said that Nazis are racist. But their policies are not. I doubt very much the racism played any role in their economic policy, or their fight against the treaty obligations, and Regardless of whether or not it appealed to their racism for the expansion of the empire that was policy before that and it would have been policy regardless of it. And it was still policy when it didn't involve races they didn't like

 

This is why you keep desperately and frantically trying to turn it back to the motivations. I don't care what their motivations were. What I said was their policies themselves were not focused on racism. They were focused on expansion of the empire, control of industry, Improvement of the economy and provision of social services.

And you never been able to dispute any of that. Which is why you keep desperately and hopelessly trying to make it about something else  

Honk honk kiddo   You lost again  

[Black Dog]

15 hours ago, CdnFox said:

LOL everyone can see it!! It's in this very thread, you insisted otherwise  

Nope. I said the Nazis considered the Jews a race. If you have any evidence of me saying something else, let's see it. Put up for once. Not that it matters since whether they are or aren't is entirely irrelevant here.

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The motivations and intentions are utterly pointless to this discussion.

LMAO, that's retarded. Laws and policies don't exist in a vacuum, they are instruments of a vision or political agenda. 

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I've already said that Nazis are racist. But their policies are not. I doubt very much the racism played any role in their economic policy, or their fight against the treaty obligations, and

Conceding that the Nazis were racist but denying that informed any of their policies is utterly insane. 

Also calling the Nazis "racist" is actually underselling the centrality of race to the entire Nazi Weltanschauung.

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Regardless of whether or not it appealed to their racism for the expansion of the empire that was policy before that and it would have been policy regardless of it. And it was still policy when it didn't involve races they didn't like

Lon no, this is completely inaccurate. It's not like they were like "hey we should expand our borders for more living space" and later realized they could also do genocide as a treat.

The ENTIRE point was to reclaim territory they considered to be historically theirs from lesser races. The race thing was central to the whole concept as I've shown you time and again. At this point I have no idea why you're even arguing this when the Nazis weren't exactly shy about their motivations:

The plan, prepared in the years 1939–1942, was part of Adolf Hitler's and the Nazi movement's Lebensraum policy and a fulfilment of the Drang nach Osten (English: Drive towards the East) ideology of German expansion to the east, both of them part of the larger plan to establish the New Order. More than economic calculations, ideological fanaticism and racism played a central role in Nazi regime's implementation of extermination programs such as the GPO. Hitler's doctrine of Lebensraum envisaged the mass-killings, enslavement and ethnic cleansing of Slavic inhabitants of Eastern Europe, followed by the colonization of these lands with Germanic settlers.

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This is why you keep desperately and frantically trying to turn it back to the motivations. I don't care what their motivations were.

Well obviously because considering the motivations and ideology destroys your argument so you have to pretend the motivations and polices are separate, which is nonsense.

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What I said was their policies themselves were not focused on racism. They were focused on expansion of the empire, control of industry, Improvement of the economy and provision of social services.

Huh I wonder why they wanted to do all these things i guess we'll never know.

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And you never been able to dispute any of that. Which is why you keep desperately and hopelessly trying to make it about something else  

Honk honk kiddo   You lost again  

 

No I dispute all that and maintain it is impossible to separate the letter of the law from the intent of its creators and its real world effects.

You should spend less time being an insufferable twat and more time actually making good arguments.

Edited October 23, 2024 by Black Dog

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

Nope. I said the Nazis considered the Jews a race. If you have any evidence of me saying something else, let's see it. Put up for once. Not that it matters since whether they are or aren't is entirely irrelevant here.

LMAO, that's retarded. Laws and policies don't exist in a vacuum, they are instruments of a vision or political agenda. 

Conceding that the Nazis were racist but denying that informed any of their policies is utterly insane. 

Also calling the Nazis "racist" is actually underselling the centrality of race to the entire Nazi Weltanschauung.

Lon no, this is completely inaccurate. It's not like they were like "hey we should expand our borders for more living space" and later realized they could also do genocide as a treat.

The ENTIRE point was to reclaim territory they considered to be historically theirs from lesser races. The race thing was central to the whole concept as I've shown you time and again. At this point I have no idea why you're even arguing this when the Nazis weren't exactly shy about their motivations:

The plan, prepared in the years 1939–1942, was part of Adolf Hitler's and the Nazi movement's Lebensraum policy and a fulfilment of the Drang nach Osten (English: Drive towards the East) ideology of German expansion to the east, both of them part of the larger plan to establish the New Order. More than economic calculations, ideological fanaticism and racism played a central role in Nazi regime's implementation of extermination programs such as the GPO. Hitler's doctrine of Lebensraum envisaged the mass-killings, enslavement and ethnic cleansing of Slavic inhabitants of Eastern Europe, followed by the colonization of these lands with Germanic settlers.

Well obviously because considering the motivations and ideology destroys your argument so you have to pretend the motivations and polices are separate, which is nonsense.

Huh I wonder why they wanted to do all these things i guess we'll never know.

No I dispute all that and maintain it is impossible to separate the letter of the law from the intent of its creators and its real world effects.

You should spend less time being an insufferable twat and more time actually making good arguments.

Yawn!

The jews were not a race. Trying to argue with me that im' right is weird. 

Laws absolutely do exist in a vacuum.  That is part of the problem with them.  That's why activist judges have such an easy time "reinterpreting" the laws and changing their original meeting. That's why it's so important to make sure laws that can be abused are not put in place because once theyre in place they don't care about what your original reasons were. 

Policies are similar.  Sure there may be a reason behind it, but the policy itself is stand alone. If you're cutting the GST then whether you're doing it because you hate liberals or because you think it doesn't work or for populist reasons or because you think it'll mess the jews over or whatever doesn't matter - the policy itself is a tax cut.  THat's what it is.  

 

The laws and policies of the nazis mostly had nothing to do with race. That is an absolute truth. I get you're trying to say the reasons BEHIND the laws were racist (honest!) but ... the laws and policies themselves for the most part were not.

As we've looked at 1000 times  lebensraum predated the nazis, it wasn't a "nazi policy" as much as it was a continuation of an existing policy, and while it played into the nazi's racism nicely it's a policy of expansion that was there before the nazis came to power and was about expanding the empire. They didn't think france or the netherlands were "low people"  but they sure as heck attacked them.  

The extermination programs might be considered racist, but again - that's a tiny part of thier overall economic and expansionist planning.  I never said NONE of their policies were racist.  AND considering MOST of their extermination policies were focused on jews (not a race) even then it was a pretty small part of the war effort. 

 

 I know it makes you big mad to be wrong, but you're wrong.    MOST of the nazi policy and lawmaking was not racist.  Most of it was expansionist, economic and control of industry. The nazis were very racist but most of their policies were not racial. 

Thanks for playing   Always fun to make you look stupid again  

[Black Dog]

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Yawn!

The jews were not a race. Trying to argue with me that im' right is weird. 

The Nazis considered the Jews a race, that's all that's relevant. But again, I have no idea why you're fixated on this point.

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Laws absolutely do exist in a vacuum.  That is part of the problem with them.  That's why activist judges have such an easy time "reinterpreting" the laws and changing their original meeting. That's why it's so important to make sure laws that can be abused are not put in place because once theyre in place they don't care about what your original reasons were. 

Lmao, you have no idea how this actually undermines your point, do you? If a law can be reinterpreted by someone with a different intention for a different purpose than its creators', that just proves intention and purpose are inextricable from the law itself. The law is merely an instrument for carrying out a given agenda.

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Policies are similar.  Sure there may be a reason behind it, but the policy itself is stand alone. If you're cutting the GST then whether you're doing it because you hate liberals or because you think it doesn't work or for populist reasons or because you think it'll mess the jews over or whatever doesn't matter - the policy itself is a tax cut.  THat's what it is.  

That's actually the first decent example you've come up with of a policy that could be seen as ideologically neutral. The problem is, we're not talking about Harper cutting taxes, we're talking about the goddamned Nazis. They literally had race laws. 

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The laws and policies of the nazis mostly had nothing to do with race. That is an absolute truth. I get you're trying to say the reasons BEHIND the laws were racist (honest!) but ... the laws and policies themselves for the most part were not.

These are not the same thing, you know that right? I've already demonstrated how objectively race-neutral laws or policies could be used for racist purposes. 

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As we've looked at 1000 times  lebensraum predated the nazis, it wasn't a "nazi policy" as much as it was a continuation of an existing policy, and while it played into the nazi's racism nicely it's a policy of expansion that was there before the nazis came to power and was about expanding the empire.

This is false. It was an idea that originated in human geography that the Nazis turned into an explicit (and explicitly racist) policy. They're the only ones who took the idea of and actually put into action and they did so, again quite explicitly, for racist reasons.

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The extermination programs might be considered racist, but again - that's a tiny part of thier overall economic and expansionist planning.

I knew you'd get into Holocaust denial sooner or later loooool.

Also no, it was not a "tiny part" since the entire idea of colonizing the east depended on eliminating the people already there. Again:

Hitler's doctrine of Lebensraum envisaged the mass-killings, enslavement and ethnic cleansing of Slavic inhabitants of Eastern Europe, followed by the colonization of these lands with Germanic settlers.

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 I never said NONE of their policies were racist.  AND considering MOST of their extermination policies were focused on jews (not a race) even then it was a pretty small part of the war effort.

They systematically murdered 17 million people as part of the Holocaust, including 11 million non-Jewish victims, mostly Poles and Russians. That's more than the entire death toll on both sides, including civilians, on the western front. the idea that that was just a sidebar or something is beyond farcical and again crosses into Holocaust denialism.

[Hodad]

On 10/22/2024 at 1:29 PM, impartialobserver said:

Back to the topic...

Real average hourly earnings are up. Nationally, it is up 1.5 percent. In NV, it is up 1.9%. Is this due to Harris or Biden.. not even a little bit. It is due to construction employment being up in certain states. 


https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2024/real-average-hourly-earnings-increased-1-5-percent-from-september-2023-to-september-2024.htm

Eh, I'd argue that yes, they deserve some of the credit. A.for creating (or not destroying) conditions for recovery, and B. for aggressive support of specific legislation like the IRA and the CHIPS act. That kind of specific, targeted legislation is very effective as spurring relatively short-term action. We have a major construction boom in several states due to massive economic investments from tech companies. Construction jobs are booming today, with manufacturing and tech jobs to fill those facilities once they are built. 

 

Edited October 23, 2024 by Hodad

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Black Dog said:

The Nazis considered the Jews a race, that's all that's relevant. But again, I have no idea why you're fixated on this point.

Lmao, you have no idea how this actually undermines your point, do you? If a law can be reinterpreted by someone with a different intention for a different purpose than its creators', that just proves intention and purpose are inextricable from the law itself. The law is merely an instrument for carrying out a given agenda.

That's actually the first decent example you've come up with of a policy that could be seen as ideologically neutral. The problem is, we're not talking about Harper cutting taxes, we're talking about the goddamned Nazis. They literally had race laws. 

These are not the same thing, you know that right? I've already demonstrated how objectively race-neutral laws or policies could be used for racist purposes. 

This is false. It was an idea that originated in human geography that the Nazis turned into an explicit (and explicitly racist) policy. They're the only ones who took the idea of and actually put into action and they did so, again quite explicitly, for racist reasons.

I knew you'd get into Holocaust denial sooner or later loooool.

Also no, it was not a "tiny part" since the entire idea of colonizing the east depended on eliminating the people already there. Again:

Hitler's doctrine of Lebensraum envisaged the mass-killings, enslavement and ethnic cleansing of Slavic inhabitants of Eastern Europe, followed by the colonization of these lands with Germanic settlers.

They systematically murdered 17 million people as part of the Holocaust, including 11 million non-Jewish victims, mostly Poles and Russians. That's more than the entire death toll on both sides, including civilians, on the western front. the idea that that was just a sidebar or something is beyond farcical and again crosses into Holocaust denialism.

Blah blah fail fail whine whine .....

 

Most of the policies of the nazis had nothing to do with race. 

Laws stand alone from the original intent. And if someone else can manipulate the law based on THEIR intent then it's YOUR claim that the law is tied to the original intent that is completely destroyed. 

The fact that some EXISTING policies meshed well with the nazis' thinking didn't change anything.

Repeating a lie doesn't make it true. 

Jews are not a race. Wiping out jews is not a racial policy.  Its ethnic cleansing, not racial cleansing. 

Lebensraum was a policy of expansion.  Always was even before the nazis, was during the nazis.  If it wasn't, they'd just have killed people and moved on.  And even your own quote refers to it as ethnic cleansing, not racial cleansing and notes it's for the purpose of emptying the land for german expansion. 

 

LOL sorry kid.  You failed hard and trying to fail harder doesn't' help.    

[Black Dog]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Blah blah fail fail whine whine .....

Most of the policies of the nazis had nothing to do with race. 

Laws stand alone from the original intent. And if someone else can manipulate the law based on THEIR intent then it's YOUR claim that the law is tied to the original intent that is completely destroyed. 

I didn't say anything about "original intent." I said "intention and purpose are inextricable from the law itself" and the fact that the same law can be used for different ends for different purposes proves that. The purpose is what gives the law meaning.

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The fact that some EXISTING policies meshed well with the nazis' thinking didn't change anything.

It wasn't an existing policy, stupid. It was a theory, a concept, an idea.

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Repeating a lie doesn't make it true. 

So why do you keep doing it?

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Jews are not a race. Wiping out jews is not a racial policy.  Its ethnic cleansing, not racial cleansing. 

The Nazis considered the Jews a race, you dumbshit, get it through your skull.

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Lebensraum was a policy of expansion.  Always was even before the nazis, was during the nazis.  If it wasn't, they'd just have killed people and moved on. 

I've never disputed that it was about colonization, that was always self-evident. But they did want the land because they thought it would be a nice place to build a second home. It was an ideologically and racially motivated plan of conquest.

The "Master Race" doctrine of Nazi ideology condemned Slavs to permanent domination by Germanic peoples, since it viewed them as primitive people who lacked the ability to undertake autonomous activities. Generalplan Ost evolved from these racist, imperialist ideas and was formulated by the Nazi regime as its official policy during the course of the Second World War.

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And even your own quote refers to it as ethnic cleansing, not racial cleansing and notes it's for the purpose of emptying the land for german expansion. 

Imagine thinking there's a meaningful difference between ethnic cleansing and racial cleansing as practiced by the Nazis, lol what a goof. 

Nazis: "We are a master race, which must remember that the lowliest German worker is racially and biologically a thousand times more valuable than the population here."

CdnFox: "Uh well akshually Germans are an ethnicity not a race."

Nazis: "Very interesting, now get in the ditch."

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LOL sorry kid.  You failed hard and trying to fail harder doesn't' help.    

Cope and seethe.

Edited October 23, 2024 by Black Dog

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

I didn't say anything about "original intent." I said "intention and purpose are inextricable from the law itself" and the fact that the same law can be used for different ends for different purposes proves that. The purpose is what gives the law meaning.

It wasn't an existing policy, stupid. It was a theory, a concept, an idea.

So why do you keep doing it?

The Nazis considered the Jews a race, you dumbshit, get it through your skull.

I've never disputed that it was about colonization, that was always self-evident. But they did want the land because they thought it would be a nice place to build a second home. It was an ideologically and racially motivated plan of conquest.

The "Master Race" doctrine of Nazi ideology condemned Slavs to permanent domination by Germanic peoples, since it viewed them as primitive people who lacked the ability to undertake autonomous activities. Generalplan Ost evolved from these racist, imperialist ideas and was formulated by the Nazi regime as its official policy during the course of the Second World War.

Imagine thinking there's a meaningful difference between ethnic cleansing and racial cleansing as practiced by the Nazis, lol what a goof. 

Nazis: "We are a master race, which must remember that the lowliest German worker is racially and biologically a thousand times more valuable than the population here."

CdnFox: "Uh well akshually Germans are an ethnicity not a race."

Nazis: "Very interesting, now get in the ditch."

Cope and seethe.

Oh look who has to resort to lying about what he said again in order to cover his stupidity     LOLOLOL

Well now that we have eliminated the idea that the law doesn't stand on its own we can get back to reality. Most of the nazi policies and laws had nothing to do with race. 

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Generalplan Ost evolved from these racist, imperialist ideas

So in other words the Nazi expansion which was always their policy even before the Nazis showed up tied in nicely with their racism.

LOL  that's what i said about 12 posts ago  LOLOLOL   The actual plan was about expanding the empire and was policy before the nazis showed up but sure, their racism loved the idea as well.  But it's an expansionist policy, not a racist one.    Whomever was there would have been taken over. 

And once again you've managed to argue your way back to my origianl position    The nazis were very racist but their policies and laws were largely not based on race   They'd have expanded their country anyway, and it's just icing that they got to beat up some people they don't like.  When it was people they DO like then they STILL tried to beat them up   

 

LOLOL wow.    You done or you still want to make an ass of yourself?       Tell you what, i say that 2+24, why not fight with yourself till you agree with me for a few pages    ROFLMAO!!!!   honestly you really are absolutely a treat to read every day

[eyeball]

12 hours ago, Black Dog said:

Conceding that the Nazis were racist but denying that informed any of their policies is utterly insane.

He's trying to deny he's a dolt because he knows that babbling social services are even more evil than Nazi racism is ridiculous.

But it is what he believes, that doling out welfare was the worst thing Hitler ever did.

[Black Dog]

19 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Oh look who has to resort to lying about what he said again in order to cover his stupidity     LOLOLOL

Oh look who can't back up his claims with ebvidence again, lol you a fake b!tch.
 

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Well now that we have eliminated the idea that the law doesn't stand on its own we can get back to reality. Most of the nazi policies and laws had nothing to do with race. 

 

Then you should be able to list one but everything you have listed ties directly to the Nazi's racial vision.

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So in other words the Nazi expansion which was always their policy even before the Nazis showed up tied in nicely with their racism.

The policy was the Nazi's policy before the Nazis? 

LOL.

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LOL  that's what i said about 12 posts ago  LOLOLOL   The actual plan was about expanding the empire and was policy before the nazis showed up but sure, their racism loved the idea as well.  But it's an expansionist policy, not a racist one.   

1. Again, lebensraum wasn't policy before the Nazis, it was an idea.

2. The idea itself was rooted in racism, as I've shown about 500 times now.

3. The Nazi's execution of their policy was explicitly and fundamentally racial.

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Whomever was there would have been taken over. 

Except we live in the reality where they wanted to take over what they considered their rightful territory because of their racial superiority. We know because they said so.

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And once again you've managed to argue your way back to my origianl position    The nazis were very racist but their policies and laws were largely not based on race   They'd have expanded their country anyway, and it's just icing that they got to beat up some people they don't like.  When it was people they DO like then they STILL tried to beat them up   

Again with repeating the same tired an already debunked nonsense with cope emojis. Get a new schtick dude.

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LOLOL wow.    You done or you still want to make an ass of yourself?       Tell you what, i say that 2+24, why not fight with yourself till you agree with me for a few pages    ROFLMAO!!!!   honestly you really are absolutely a treat to read every day

It's very funny watching you lie to yourself. Sorry, I meant pathetic.

Edited October 24, 2024 by Black Dog

[Black Dog]

13 hours ago, eyeball said:

He's trying to deny he's a dolt because he knows that babbling social services are even more evil than Nazi racism is ridiculous.

But it is what he believes, that doling out welfare was the worst thing Hitler ever did.

I don't think he has any coherent beliefs at all. He's a reflexive, unthinking contrarian. If that means he has to deny the Holocaust to try and "win" an argument, well he'll do it.

[CdnFox]

50 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Oh look who can't back up his claims with ebvidence again, lol you a fake b!tch.
 

Then you should be able to list one but everything you have listed ties directly to the Nazi's racial vision.

The policy was the Nazi's policy before the Nazis? 

LOL.

1. Again, lebensraum wasn't policy before the Nazis, it was an idea.

2. The idea itself was rooted in racism, as I've shown about 500 times now.

3. The Nazi's execution of their policy was explicitly and fundamentally racial.

Except we live in the reality where they wanted to take over what they considered their rightful territory because of their racial superiority. We know because they said so.

Again with repeating the same tired an already debunked nonsense with cope emojis. Get a new schtick dude.

It's very funny watching you lie to yourself. Sorry, I meant pathetic.

lie lie whine whine fail fail cry

yaaawwn  

I backed up my flames perfectly. In fact most of what you posted backed up my claims as well which is always hilarious.

lebensraum was in fact a policy before the Nazis

The ideas rooted in expansion, not racism. It is all about expanding the german empire. Racism plays into it nicely but the point was expanding the empire.

The execution of their policy was explicitly and fundamentally military, and focused on the expansion of the empire. They did not attack racial groups, they attacked countries and ethnic groups including ones that they actually liked in order to guarantee the success of the expansion. World war II was a military operation designed  to seize land and assets.

Even the ethnic cleansing, rather than racial cleansing, was designed to empty the land and create a Workforce for the purpose of expanding the german empire and allowing germans to live there

. All of this has been proven. All this is demonstrable.

And all of that means you failed yet again  

Want to keep going? It's always fun to watch you chase your tail and whimper and cry  

[Black Dog]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

lie lie whine whine fail fail cry

yaaawwn  

I backed up my flames perfectly. In fact most of what you posted backed up my claims as well which is always hilarious.

You seem to be under the impression that repeating the same shit over and over is the same thing as providing evidence. It is not. You claimed i said Jews were a race, now prove it.

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The ideas rooted in expansion, not racism. It is all about expanding the german empire. Racism plays into it nicely but the point was expanding the empire.

The execution of their policy was explicitly and fundamentally military, and focused on the expansion of the empire. They did not attack racial groups, they attacked countries and ethnic groups including ones that they actually liked in order to guarantee the success of the expansion. World war II was a military operation designed  to seize land and assets.

Even the ethnic cleansing, rather than racial cleansing, was designed to empty the land and create a Workforce for the purpose of expanding the german empire and allowing germans to live there

All of this has been proven. All this is demonstrable.

And all of that means you failed yet again  

All of this is bullshit. The Nazis would laugh their heads off if you told them their campaign to conquer the east and wipe out the peoples of Eastern Europe they considered Untermenschen was not motivated by their racial beliefs. The expansion of Germany eastward and the destruction or subjugation of lesser races went hand-in-hand. There was no similar vision for western European nations, which Hitler viewed completely differently than the Slavic peoples, no plan to genocide or cleanse the French or Belgians and colonize their territory. It's all in Hitler's writings, in Generalplan Ost, in statements by Nazi officials, and, crucially, in the conduct of the Nazis on the eastern front being completely different from the traditional military campaign they waged in in the west. Your inability to grasp the implications of these distinctions betrays your stupidity and incuriosity.

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Want to keep going? It's always fun to watch you chase your tail and whimper and cry  

You haven't done anything here but reinforce to everyone how stupid you are, but what do you expect from a Holocaust denier.

Edited October 24, 2024 by Black Dog

[CdnFox]

8 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

You seem to be under the impression that repeating the same shit over and over is the same thing as providing evidence. It is not. You claimed i said Jews were a race, now prove it.

Already done long ago. This is your usual method, I prove something, you deny it, I prove it again, you deny it, and then I just keep repeating the truth and you keep denying it

9 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

All of this is bullshit. The Nazis would laugh their heads off if you told them their campaign to conquer the east and wipe out the peoples of Eastern Europe they considered Untermenschen was not motivated by their racial beliefs.The expansion of Germany eastward and the destruction or subjugation of lesser races went hand-in-hand. There was no similar vision for western European nations, which Hitler viewed completely differently than the Slavic peoples, no plan to genocide or cleanse the French or Belgians and colonize their territory. It's all in Hitler's writings, in Generalplan Ost, in statements by Nazi officials and in the actions on the ground with the conduct of the Nazis on the eastern front being completely different from the traditional military campaign they waged in in the west. Your inability to grasp the implications of these distinctions betrays your stupidity and incuriosity.

The Nazis would have expanded their empire  regardless of who was there. The fact that some of it was people they didn't like was gravy.

The military campaigns were specifically set out to target needed assets and take land that they wanted, it wasn't based on who they hated the most or which ethnic group they thought should be destroyed first

. And Jews still aren't a race. In fact according to their own documents in your own accounts this was at least as much about ethnicity than it was about race as far as that goes. 

Sorry kid, you're wrong

Oh and by the way the germans absolutely did have plans for purging the french and the English if they took them over. They did the same thing that they did in the Slavic Nations, capturing jews and other people they didn't care for and killing them or making them slaves.

And jews still aren't a race. 

You really should read more  

 

[Black Dog]

42 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Already done long ago. This is your usual method, I prove something, you deny it, I prove it again, you deny it, and then I just keep repeating the truth and you keep denying it

Let me put it this way: you're f*cking lying.

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The Nazis would have expanded their empire  regardless of who was there. The fact that some of it was people they didn't like was gravy.

I know how much you love retarded counterfactuals, but we're dealing with what actually happened here in the real world and the reality is the Nazis viewed their campaign in the east as a racial crusade, as the overwhelming body of evidence I've presented shows. 

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The military campaigns were specifically set out to target needed assets and take land that they wanted, it wasn't based on who they hated the most or which ethnic group they thought should be destroyed first

Except it literally was.

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And Jews still aren't a race. In fact according to their own documents in your own accounts this was at least as much about ethnicity than it was about race as far as that goes. 

Irrelevant distinction in this context. 

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Oh and by the way the germans absolutely did have plans for purging the french and the English if they took them over.

Liar. They planned to conquer and rule the states of western Europe, but only the people of the eastern nations were to be exterminated.

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They did the same thing that they did in the Slavic Nations, capturing jews and other people they didn't care for and killing them or making them slaves.

Yeah they rounded up Jews and other "undesirables" but they didn't conduct a genocidal scorched earth campaign with mass deportations and starvation measures against the general population the way they did as a matter of policy in the east. Because they didn't view the French et al as subhumans the way they saw the Slavs, Jews, etc.

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And jews still aren't a race. 

Who cares.

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You really should read more  

Why do you have more self-published e-books by faux historians to recommend?

[CdnFox]

42 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Let me put it this way: you're f*cking lying.

I know how much you love retarded counterfactuals, but we're dealing with what actually happened here in the real world and the reality is the Nazis viewed their campaign in the east as a racial crusade, as the overwhelming body of evidence I've presented shows. 

Except it literally was.

Irrelevant distinction in this context. 

Liar. They planned to conquer and rule the states of western Europe, but only the people of the eastern nations were to be exterminated.

Yeah they rounded up Jews and other "undesirables" but they didn't conduct a genocidal scorched earth campaign with mass deportations and starvation measures against the general population the way they did as a matter of policy in the east. Because they didn't view the French et al as subhumans the way they saw the Slavs, Jews, etc.

Who cares.

Why do you have more self-published e-books by faux historians to recommend?

awww little guy    Butt hurt again because you can't handle the truth  

Everything i said was true and evidence was provided, sometimes by you yourself. It's not my fault you can't read.

lebensraum was an expansionist policy first and foremonst. The term literally means living space. 

Again from wikipedia:

Lebensraum (German pronunciation: [ˈleːbənsˌʁaʊm] ^ⓘ, living space) is a German concept of expansionism and Völkisch nationalism, the philosophy and policies of which were common to German politics from the 1890s to the 1940s. First popularized around 1901,^[2] Lebensraum became a geopolitical goal of Imperial Germany in World War I (1914–1918), as the core element of the Septemberprogramm of territorial expansion.^[3] The most extreme form of this ideology was supported by the Nazi Party and Nazi Germany. Lebensraum was a leading motivation of Nazi Germany to initiate World War II, and it would continue this policy until the end of the conflict.^[4]

Remember when you said that it was just a concept before the Nazis? I do. It was like 5 minutes ago.   

 

No matter how many times I prove you're wrong you just come back and pretend that the proof was never given. All of this has been explained before. The germans had this policy for ages before the Nazis came along, and while it missed nicely with the Nazi racism the fact is is it was a expansionist policy first and foremost.

 

wahh wahhh waaaaaaaahhhh     awww little guy, it must hurt to be so stupid when everyone around you is smarter. Including the cat.    

Edited October 24, 2024 by CdnFox

[Black Dog]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

awww little guy    Butt hurt again because you can't handle the truth  

Everything i said was true and evidence was provided, sometimes by you yourself. It's not my fault you can't read.

lebensraum was an expansionist policy first and foremonst. The term literally means living space. 

Again you claimed I said Jews were a race, but of course you have no proof.

But onto the bold, as I said and all my sources how, you cannot separate the living space angle from the belief in German racial superiority. It's baked in.

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Again from wikipedia:

Lebensraum (German pronunciation: [ˈleːbənsˌʁaʊm] ^ⓘ, living space) is a German concept of expansionism and Völkisch nationalism, the philosophy and policies of which were common to German politics from the 1890s to the 1940s. First popularized around 1901,^[2] Lebensraum became a geopolitical goal of Imperial Germany in World War I (1914–1918), as the core element of the Septemberprogramm of territorial expansion.^[3] The most extreme form of this ideology was supported by the Nazi Party and Nazi Germany. Lebensraum was a leading motivation of Nazi Germany to initiate World War II, and it would continue this policy until the end of the conflict.^[4]

Remember when you said that it was just a concept before the Nazis? I do. It was like 5 minutes ago.   

 

lmao

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The Septemberprogramm was based on suggestions from Germany's industrial, military, and political leadership. However, since Germany did not win the war, it was never put into effect. As historian Raffael Scheck concluded, "The government, finally, never committed itself to anything. It had ordered the Septemberprogramm as an informal hearing in order to learn about the opinion of the economic and military elites."

So not an actual government policy of Imperial Germany.

Meanwhile, your same link says this about the application of this philosophy by the Nazis:

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The bio-geo-political nature of Nazi Weltanschauung was the core ideological force that instigated Nazi Germany to launch its violent project in pursuit of a new global order. This scheme aimed to dissolve the contradictions between the Nazi conceptualizations of "race" and "space" through the creation of a Germanic Lebensraum and achievement of world domination by the Nordic people. This combination of biopolitical and geo-political agenda of the Nazi Reich became the basis for its Germanization policies, the mission of what it regarded as the "purification of the Volksgemeinschaft", as well as its state-sponsored genocidal apparatus.

...

Nazi Germany's pursuit of its bio-geo-political ambitions was carried out through fanatical perpetration of a racist war of annihilation (Vernichtungskrieg) which inflicted industrial-scale terrorism against entire populations. These policies resulted in the genocide of numerous ethnic groups in German-occupied territories, including the Jews, Poles, Russians, Romani people, etc. and also contributed to the failure of German war aims.[69] Nazi policies in German-occupied territories were marked by spontaneous adaptation, on-the-fly modifications, and bureaucratic competition, underscoring the impulsive nature of Hitlerism.

Once again, your own source undermines your point. You absolutely f*cking suck at this.

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No matter how many times I prove you're wrong you just come back and pretend that the proof was never given. All of this has been explained before. The germans had this policy for ages before the Nazis came along, and while it missed nicely with the Nazi racism the fact is is it was a expansionist policy first and foremost.

Every source I've provided has shown that the racial aspect was a central component of the Nazi's philosophy. Every source you've provided has shown that the racial aspect was a central component of the Nazi's philosophy. The Nazis themselves said that the racial aspect was a central component of the Nazi's philosophy. And yet here you sit insisting that the racial aspect was merely tangential and not because you believe it, but because admitting you were wrong about something you've argued for for such a long time (to the point of engaging in a little light Holocaust denial) would be too much for your sad, fragile little ego to handle. You are truly one of the saddest characters I've ever encountered online.

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wahh wahhh waaaaaaaahhhh     awww little guy, it must hurt to be so stupid when everyone around you is smarter. Including the cat.    

Pitiful stuff.

Edited October 24, 2024 by Black Dog