Who Hates the USA?

[geoffrey]

I don't think booing anyone's anthem is respectful. Show a little dignity please people.

[moderateamericain]

Actually it is probably more along the lines of putting the visiting team off their game. Most of the people there are sports fans not political junkies, the same as the Americans who flew the Canadian flag upside down at a ball game a few years back. More of an unintended compliment to a worthy opponent.

Collective America is out of touch with reality, and being, to put it mildly overbearing, in it's relations with most of the other nations on the planet. Other empires have achieved that status in the past. Hate might be too strong a word for it but disgust mixed with despair for the future can look awfully similar.

You defend that action?

[Biblio Bibuli]

Actually it is probably more along the lines of putting the visiting team off their game.

You defend that action?

[Metal Jam]

Canada seems to further itself from her allies and sleep with her enemies.

Although there is something to be proud of and that is our extremely quiet and peaceful border.

[Machinations]

I suspect hard core anti-U.S. sentiments in Canada is actually quite low and is often confused by the media with some Canadians disliking U.S. foreign policy as opposed to hate and animosity being associated with anti-Americanism.

I would agree. I think that some Americans conflate criticism of current policy decisions with anti-USA sentiment - but then again, in America these same people would accuse many of their own countrymen for being 'Anti-American' for wanting to pull troops out of Iraq.

[Naci Sey]

There's a big difference between anti-Americanism as we see it in some of the Islaamic countries, and the anti-Bush-ism we see in Canada. As I stated previously, I am no fan of GWB, but I have no ill feelings whatsoever towards America or her people. I think too many people look at anti-Bush folks, and simply paint them with the anti-America brush.

Astute comments. I agree that most Canadians who might be labelled anti-USian are instead anti-GWB and that the latter really took off after 9/11. However, there has been a growing lack of respect for USians since Bush's 2004 re-election. It's the old Chinese proverb: Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

[lost&outofcontrol]

It's the old Chinese proverb: Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

I thought it was fool me once, shame on you. fool me ?? you can't get fooled again.

[Liam]

There's a big difference between anti-Americanism as we see it in some of the Islaamic countries, and the anti-Bush-ism we see in Canada. As I stated previously, I am no fan of GWB, but I have no ill feelings whatsoever towards America or her people. I think too many people look at anti-Bush folks, and simply paint them with the anti-America brush.

Astute comments. I agree that most Canadians who might be labelled anti-USian are instead anti-GWB and that the latter really took off after 9/11. However, there has been a growing lack of respect for USians since Bush's 2004 re-election. It's the old Chinese proverb: Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

"Anti-American" can be such a vague term... does it mean anti-US policy, anti-US individuals, anti-stereotype of US individuals, anti-Hollywood, anti-Coke/McDonalds/globalist (etc.)...?

I can recognize anti-Bush statements and behavior. Believe me, I live in a blue state, I'm fairly well educated (and, hopefully, mostly literate), I am gay, I am liberal-leaning, I am a Democrat -- what could I possibly agree on with my current government?! -- yet, even I am occasionally offended by some of the anti-(whatever) statements that non-US people hurl about.

The problem I have is when valid criticism of Bush devolves -- and it *always* devolves -- to personal attacks against US stereotypes or individuals: "you're all fat, you all carry guns in one arm and a Bible in the other, you are gluttons with the world's resources, when you travel French waiters spit in your food so you had better sew a maple leaf on your backpack, you're mean, you're ignorant, you love NASCAR and shop at WalMart, you're always boasting that you're Number 1, you have no sense of community, you have no culture, you drive everywhere, everyone in the world hates you but tell them you're Canadian and they'll be buying you lagers all night, you are stupid, none of you have passports, you have no healthcare, you are obnoxious, you wear baseball caps in the Louvre, your cities are all ugly and soulless compared to [Canadian, Italian, wherever] cities, you invaded us in 1812, you are all warmongers, I won't go to the US because I know I'll get shot, blah blah blah..."

Normally, such criticism reflects more on the speaker than on the object of his tirade, but such tirades do become personal when heard often enough and particularly so when they come from the least expected source, like from foreign nationals where we have some common cultural touchstones (Canadians, Britons, Aussies, Irishmen, etc.). I'm not playing victim here -- I get quite angry when I see or hear such ignorance and am more than willing push back -- but such slanders are meant to be hurtful and they sometimes hit their mark squarely and deeply even though they don't reflect the target.

As far as 2004 goes, you have to remember that over 55,000,000 Americans told Bush they wanted him gone. That's twice as many people as live in all of Canada. 55 million people essentially gave him the finger, and yet through some form of lazy thinking out there in the world, we're all accused of being Bush-disciples. Hog wash.

[geoffrey]

Anti anything is a ridiculous way to live a life. If your anti-GWB, anti-American, anti-Democrat, whatever, you really fit in with the ignorant segement of the population.

It's dangerous when we get into the situation of discrediting ideas because of who's they are. I know many people that no matter what GWB says, it would be wrong. Same with GOP supporters that say anything from democrats must be false too.

This is ridiculous. Open minds solve problems, not this division between the left in the right, in Canada and the US. If you discredit any idea because of its source and not because of the idea/issue, then the level of ignorance is just astounding.

I've heard good ideas from socialists, while I'm very conservative. I've heard good ideas from libertarians. My opinions on many issues have switched due to listening to arguments from opponents. I've also somewhat came up with an interesting compromise position on SSM with input from both sides, even though personally I find it a little morally shakey.

I really hope people aren't ok with being anti-GWB, anti-Liberal, anti-anything. That's just a bad attitude to have.

[Argus]

America is like Ginger, a once beautiful, but now old and faded whore who still thinks that she's "the" best.

Canada is like Maryanne, all fresh and young and pretty without all the makeup.

(For those who've ever watched the old Gilligan's Island series)

Someone told me that analogy the other day and it really made me laugh.

If you were a little more mature or thoughtful, it might have made you think instead.

You see, the problem with that analogy was that Ginger wasn't faded. In every story where the question of female attractiveness arose the men all went gaga over Ginger, and pretty much ignored Mary Ann. Ginger had the beauty, the wealth, the fame, and everone wanted her or wanted to be her. Mary Ann was sort of an also ran, and a distant one at that.

[KrustyKidd]

Ginger had the beauty, the wealth, the fame, and everone wanted her or wanted to be her. Mary Ann was sort of an also ran, and a distant one at that.

There's a guy who posted early this morning who didn't like either but probably had fantasys about getting raped by the skipper.

[Black Dog]

Anti anything is a ridiculous way to live a life. If your anti-GWB, anti-American, anti-Democrat, whatever, you really fit in with the ignorant segement of the population.

The problem is, those who chalk up anti-Bush sentiment to "irrational hatred" don't know the difference between irrational hatred and righteous anger. People are pissed at Bush, they are pissed at his policies and they are pissed at the arrogance and ineptitude of his regime. Now if you want irrational hatred, head over to the right-wing side of things and read about immigration. Better yet, stick around here and witness certain poster's sphincter-clenching rage over failed Democratic presdiential candidates ferchrrissakes. As I've said before, there's a small fraction of the left that chosoes to use anonimity to snipe and make outrageous comments and threats. But threats, anger, and hate are de rigueur among the upper echelons of the right wing.

You see, the problem with that analogy was that Ginger wasn't faded. In every story where the question of female attractiveness arose the men all went gaga over Ginger, and pretty much ignored Mary Ann. Ginger had the beauty, the wealth, the fame, and everone wanted her or wanted to be her. Mary Ann was sort of an also ran, and a distant one at that.

No way, man. Ginger was the fantasy ideal, but MaryAnn was the accessible girl-next-door.

[Liam]

There's a guy who posted early this morning who didn't like either but probably had fantasys about getting raped by the skipper.

As I am sure you are intimately aware, it's really only the self-loathing closet cases who think about the Skipper in such a manner.

[Naci Sey]

As far as 2004 goes, you have to remember that over 55,000,000 Americans told Bush they wanted him gone. That's twice as many people as live in all of Canada. 55 million people essentially gave him the finger, and yet through some form of lazy thinking out there in the world, we're all accused of being Bush-disciples.

I caution you not to engage in the kind of generalization you talk about elsewhere in your post.

Re the 2004 election, anyone whose head wasn't in the sand knew there was a risk that GWB would be voted in for a second term. Yes, 55 million USians voted for other than GWB. But what else did those 55 million people do, other than not vote for him? Political activity can involve more than just voting. If citizens see a risk in so-and-so being elected, then they should do more than simply fill out a ballot on election day.

My argument goes equally to the people on this side of the border. We now have a minority Conservative government, put into Ottawa with 36% of the popular vote. What did the remaining 64% of voters do beyond presenting themselves on election day? I'm one of those voters and ask myself: Did I talk enough to acquaintances about the issues? Did I write enough to the various politicians and candidates? Did I send enough letters to the editor? I can't help but think that if I and the other 64% of voters had done more, we would have had a different outcome, one that in fact reflects the majority.

[Wilber]

If that different outcome was the status quo, it's a good thing you didn't. The outcome did reflect the majority, a minority government. Most majority governments don't get elected with more than 50% of the popular vote.

[scribblet]

As far as 2004 goes, you have to remember .

My argument goes equally to the people on this side of the border. We now have a minority Conservative government, put into Ottawa with 36% of the popular vote. What did the remaining 64% of voters do beyond presenting themselves on election day? I'm one of those voters and ask myself: Did I talk enough to acquaintances about the issues? Did I write enough to the various politicians and candidates? Did I send enough letters to the editor? I can't help but think that if I and the other 64% of voters had done more, we would have had a different outcome, one that in fact reflects the majority.

Well, hopefully the next gov't will be a CPC majority, and I do my bit honest

[margrace]

I think if one honestly looks at the situation it is rather hypocritical of Canadians to be accused of hating Americans. Well I guess there are people in this world who hate their cousins and we are all cousins to a suprising degree if you do any family research.

[scribblet]

As Robin Williams said, we are cousins separated at birth.

[Liam]

I caution you not to engage in the kind of generalization you talk about elsewhere in your post.

Re the 2004 election, anyone whose head wasn't in the sand knew there was a risk that GWB would be voted in for a second term. Yes, 55 million USians voted for other than GWB. But what else did those 55 million people do, other than not vote for him? Political activity can involve more than just voting. If citizens see a risk in so-and-so being elected, then they should do more than simply fill out a ballot on election day...

I can't speak for others, but I can say that I did considerably more than just show up at the ballot box. I donated money and time to campaigns, I talked to family and friends, I wrote letters. Please do not assume that I only showed up on election day. I knew the risk W would get re-elected was HUGE and I did as much as I could to not have it happen.

The problem is that because a slight majority of voters went with Bush, the rest of us have to suffer the consequences both at home and abroad. I can't tell you how many times either I or Kerry-voting friends and acquaintances of mine had to work to dispel the myth, particularly in the immediate aftermath of the 2004 election, that all Americans were on board with the Bush agenda. I think it is not only ignorant and lazy for non-US persons to think that way (when there are 55 million voices to the contrary), but to then have members of the international public say things like, "well, now you [Americans] deserve what you get." WHAT?! So I now deserve the anger of the Islamic world? It is justified if I get blown up by a car bomb? My colleague deserved the acidic vitriol of that crazed woman at a dinner party in London? My friend deserved the derision of some counterparts when he was at a conference in Montreal? That's what I meant by lazy thinking. For all the claims people make that non-USians know more about the US, I sure was shocked by the amount of ignorance of outsiders that I both heard about and personally experienced after Bush was re-elected.

I frequently hear Canadians lamenting that Bush is president. You think it's bad living next door to a madman? Try being held hostage in one's own home by the madman and having all the neighbors tell you it's your own fault.

[Naci Sey]

I can't speak for others, but I can say that I did considerably more than just show up at the ballot box. I donated money and time to campaigns, I talked to family and friends, I wrote letters. Please do not assume that I only showed up on election day. I knew the risk W would get re-elected was HUGE and I did as much as I could to not have it happen.

I had no doubt that you were one of those who WORKED to get a different result, Liam, and I'm very sympathetic to your situation. However, that doesn't change my point that far too many voters - USians, Canadians, etc. - do the least necessary to participate in their democracies. Worse, let's not forget all those who don't vote at all and yet moan about the result.

[newbie]

And this is a country where the American Idol gets more votes than the President.

[Wilber]

GWB's second term resulted from the quality of his opposition. The Democrats are in the same boat as the Liberals, disorganized and trying to figure out what they really stand for.

[Rue]

Now that we all agree I think we should send the Canadia Army into the US and help them develop a democratic state. It won't be easy at first...and we will have to teach them to spell properly let alone pronounce words properly. Trying to teach an American to say car instead of CAH won't be easy. They also have this thing about guns. Could be so many of their citizens feel insecure about the size of their pee pees.

They also are a tad confused. They consider John Wayne an icon. Bug tuff guy but he walked around like someone was a bit too friendly with him while his back was turned. Likewise, George Bush tries to sound all tough, i.e., "bring it on!" when he talks about the iraqi insurgents but we know he got that line watching a chearleader movie with his daughter. Very confusing country to say the least. Then again this is a country that loved having someone with Alzheimer's Disease run the country. They love politicians who use words like God Bless America. They act all suprised when non Americans do not agree with their views as to the world. Its not that hard to disagree. Most Americans have little awareness of what happens outside their city or town or American Idol, nor do they care. So all this talk is just fine but the bottom line is Canadians don't hate Americans anymore then Americans hate Canadians. There are just as many disagreements between Americans over the same issues we Canadians disagree with Americans over.

As for the hockey game and idiot fans booing the American junior team, the point? How many times have Americans booed the Canadian anthem? Each country has its share of idiots. Many Canadians used to boo when the anthem was sung in French. Ignorance does not mean you hate Americans,

Here is what I say to Americans who come to Canada-Get over it. Spend your money here and of course we will love you. Duh.

[Charles Anthony]

This is always an interesting complaint:

"Worse, let's not forget all those who don't vote at all and yet moan about the result."

What do you suggest to people who do not approve of either candidates?

What should they do on election day?

[Argus]

Now that we all agree I think we should send the Canadia Army into the US and help them develop a democratic state. It won't be easy at first...and we will have to teach them to spell properly let alone pronounce words properly. Trying to teach an American to say car instead of CAH won't be easy. They also have this thing about guns. Could be so many of their citizens feel insecure about the size of their pee pees.

They also are a tad confused. They consider John Wayne an icon. Bug tuff guy but he walked around like someone was a bit too friendly with him while his back was turned. Likewise, George Bush tries to sound all tough, i.e., "bring it on!" when he talks about the iraqi insurgents but we know he got that line watching a chearleader movie with his daughter. Very confusing country to say the least. Then again this is a country that loved having someone with Alzheimer's Disease run the country. They love politicians who use words like God Bless America. They act all suprised when non Americans do not agree with their views as to the world. Its not that hard to disagree. Most Americans have little awareness of what happens outside their city or town or American Idol, nor do they care. So all this talk is just fine but the bottom line is Canadians don't hate Americans anymore then Americans hate Canadians. There are just as many disagreements between Americans over the same issues we Canadians disagree with Americans over.

As for the hockey game and idiot fans booing the American junior team, the point? How many times have Americans booed the Canadian anthem? Each country has its share of idiots. Many Canadians used to boo when the anthem was sung in French. Ignorance does not mean you hate Americans,

Here is what I say to Americans who come to Canada-Get over it. Spend your money here and of course we will love you. Duh.

You know, if you changed that rant to something against, say, Mexicans or Frenchmen or Nigerians everyone would call you a racist and bigot. And rightly so.