Seriously....

[Black Dog]

Why are we arguing about things we can't change?

[Hollus]

Why are we arguing about things we can't change?

such as?

[Nocrap]

Why are we arguing about things we can't change?

such as?

Yes I'd like to know what as well. Things can always be changed if enough people want it to be so.

[August1991]

Why are we arguing about things we can't change?

Because it's more social than doing crossword puzzles and more entertaining than playing cards.

[scribblet]

Why are we arguing about things we can't change?

Because it's more social than doing crossword puzzles and more entertaining than playing cards.

LOL I think you are right, these groups are very entertaining and sometimes informative.

[Greg]

Why are we arguing about things we can't change?

Blackdog, are you referring to the forums or to the general state of politics in Canada? As I've stated before, I'm willing to change the forums to meet the needs of its participants it there is some consensus among members. If you're just asking a open-ended question, then perhaps this thread should be moved into a more related section.

[Black Dog]

My question was rhetorical. It just occurred to me the other day that this whole thing message board thing is an excercise in futility. We kvetch, snipe, argue and occassionaly debate, but at the end of the day, no minds are changed, no barriers broken down and nothing whatsoever happens. It's pissing into the wind. I've been here for just under three years and the world is getting worse. No matter how much I type, the monsters still win. And, as if to add insult to injury, this board, this place I long regarded as a refuge and an outlet, has become a festering pot of rancour, hate, arrogance, often resembling a shit-fight at the monkey house more than a forum for reasoned (though impotent) discussion, populated by too many posters who simply regurgitate partially digested conventional wisdom and recycled talking points (and who mostly seem like genuinely disagreeable human beings).

In short, I've had it. I'm outta here.

[Greg]

My question was rhetorical. It just occurred to me the other day that this whole thing message board thing is an excercise in futility. We kvetch, snipe, argue and occassionaly debate, but at the end of the day, no minds are changed, no barriers broken down and nothing whatsoever happens. It's pissing into the wind. I've been here for just under three years and the world is getting worse. No matter how much I type, the monsters still win.

Oh the drama!

And, as if to add insult to injury, this board, this place I long regarded as a refuge and an outlet, has become a festering pot of rancour, hate, arrogance, often resembling a shit-fight at the monkey house more than a forum for reasoned (though impotent) discussion, populated by too many posters who simply regurgitate partially digested conventional wisdom and recycled talking points (and who mostly seem like genuinely disagreeable human beings).

If the only time you discuss politics is when you want to change someone's opinion, then I would assume you're often discussing politics alone.

In short, I've had it. I'm outta here.

Taking your ball and going home - that's an attitude that'll change opinions.

[August1991]

It just occurred to me the other day that this whole thing message board thing is an excercise in futility.

I've been here for just under three years and the world is getting worse. No matter how much I type, the monsters still win.

One could say very much the same about life in general.

Don't let the buggers get you down.

BD, you are one of the thought-provoking posters here, and don't think all posts get treated the same way.

You changed my mind on same sex marriage.

[Biblio Bibuli]

In short, I've had it. I'm outta here.

Taking your ball and going home - that's an attitude that'll change opinions.

Hi Greg!

If he happens to be serious, that would be a great huge blow to MLW, imo.

He IS, if not the best, definitely in the top five or ten of the master debators here, imho.

If I were in your shoes I'd go after him.

Pay him if you have to.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear August1991,

BD, you are one of the thought-provoking posters here, and don't think all posts get treated the same way.

You changed my mind on same sex marriage.

Sadly, I get the impression that you are one of the few people that could have their mind changed...

You are both right...

Because it's more social than doing crossword puzzles and more entertaining than playing cards.

and Black Dog, with

We kvetch, snipe, argue and occassionaly debate, but at the end of the day, no minds are changed, no barriers broken down and nothing whatsoever happens

. However, I still enjoy most of it (my current peeve is having 50 different thread topics start on every news item).

I think any changes to the format should take this into consideration..."Fight Night" (say, friday nights, 9:00 EST)... 2 debaters (one from the 'left', the other from the 'right') in a timed (say 1/2 to 1 hr) formatted debate on one topic. No one else permitted to butt in.

Some rules would include :No cut and pasting, plaigiarism is automatic disqualification, and scoring to be done by others, ranked out of 10, wins and losses kept under 'right or left wins'.

Sure, it has a lot of kinks to be ironed out, but I would find it more challenging and interesting than reading endless llinks to kooky conspiracy sites like 'rense.com' or 'newsmax'.

[Riverwind]

My question was rhetorical. It just occurred to me the other day that this whole thing message board thing is an excercise in futility. We kvetch, snipe, argue and occassionaly debate, but at the end of the day, no minds are changed, no barriers broken down and nothing whatsoever happens.

I see it like water dripping on a rock - change does not happen immediately but you cannot say nothing ever changes. I have long been a believer in the marketplace of ideas -> if you disagree with what someone says then you have to stand up and make a counter argument. Not because you expect to change the mind of the person that you arguing with but because other people listening may be swayed.

[Biblio Bibuli]

You changed my mind on same sex marriage.

Sadly, I get the impression that you are one of the few people that could have their mind changed...

I bet you that if Elton John and David Furnish read BD's posts they too would choose to get married in Canada instead of getting civil-unionized in England.

[Army Guy]

Black dog:

We may not have anything in common, but i do value what you have to say and i have learned alot from our few debates. I think your a great asset to this forum and i hope you stay with it. As for not changing anyones opionons,you have diffinetly made me rethink a few of mine.

[Biblio Bibuli]

Black dog:

We may not have anything in common, but I do value what you have to say.

I SECOND THAT !!!

[geoffrey]

Yup Black Dog, we need at least one reasonable viewpoint from the left.

My mind has been changed on many topics by these forums, and I find them quite informative at times. It's very interesting to me to hear about what other regions of Canada think about issues. Sometimes its very suprising how differently people view a situation in BC or Ontario or Quebec than here in Alberta.

Many viewpoints of mine have been changed, especially by some of your posts. I went from a completely private health care supporter, to a publically insured health care advocate. My views on multiculturalism and bilingualism have changed. My views on corporate welfare have changed.

Tons of opinions, changed by people on this board.

Your definitely in the top 3 for the ability to get me to see the other side of an argument.

Stick around buddy, we appreciate your opinions here.

[Slavik44]

I agree that debatign on this forum can be well pointless, it really doesn;t accomplish anything material, but it canunder circumstances be fun. And to ease your worries about not changing any opinions, I will let you know that you certainly helped to change mine regarding pot.

[GostHacked]

Black dog:

We may not have anything in common, but I do value what you have to say.

I SECOND THAT !!!

3rd'd

BD you are a voice of reason around here for the most part. Some stuff I may not agree with but on major topics we are on the same level. If you leave now, I will get swamped by some members here. ONE THING that really pisses me off here is the mud slinging, name calling and such, THIS must stop if we are to maintain any kind of civility in this forum.

Please, all of you, refrain from this and let's talk politics, not garbage mud slinging. And yes I am myself guilty of this. I am trying my best not to get personal.

[scribblet]

My question was rhetorical. It just occurred to me the other day that this whole thing message board thing is an excercise in futility. We kvetch, snipe, argue and occassionaly debate, but at the end of the day, no minds are changed, no barriers broken down and nothing whatsoever happens. It's pissing into the wind. I've been here for just under three years and the world is getting worse. No matter how much I type, the monsters still win. And, as if to add insult to injury, this board, this place I long regarded as a refuge and an outlet, has become a festering pot of rancour, hate, arrogance, often resembling a shit-fight at the monkey house more than a forum for reasoned (though impotent) discussion, populated by too many posters who simply regurgitate partially digested conventional wisdom and recycled talking points (and who mostly seem like genuinely disagreeable human beings).

In short, I've had it. I'm outta here.

Hmmm, I agree ithe message board thing is futile, but this is no different than any other forum, this is one of the better forums that I have come across for discussion. I don't read everything, no time, but I don't see anything as bad as your scenario. If you want left wing opinion only allowed, check out rabble, but swearing and personal attacks are allowed.

I used to post in another forum which was closed down for the reasons you post, the admins. had had enough of it. Partisian politics aside, it was mainly the left wingers, the right were no angels, but honest to pete, I don't think I've come across as much hate or malicious innuendo than from those left wingers. These forums are reasonable compared to many out there.

[newbie]

I used to post in another forum which was closed down for the reasons you post, the admins. had had enough of it. Partisian politics aside, it was mainly the left wingers, the right were no angels, but honest to pete, I don't think I've come across as much hate or malicious innuendo than from those left wingers.

There's plenty of right wing hatred toward the left on this forum. I don't think either side has a monopoly on it though.

[Biblio Bibuli]

BD you are a voice of reason around here...

Please, let's not exaggerate.

[Black Dog]

Wow. Well, I appreciate the nice coments. I certainly wasn't fishing when I said I was fed up. I have been here for a while and lately have been posting at a incredibly brisk pace of late. I was getting burned out and feeling beaten down (reading certain posters after knocking back two bottels of red wine is not good for one's mental health, believe me). But the last few days off have gioven me some perspective: in the neverending struggle against stupidity, the result is less important than the battle. Also: the Ignore button is my new best friend. Anyway, I think I'll stick around, but I won't be nearly as frequent a contributor. I have other outlets.

Thanks again, gang.

[August1991]

... (reading certain posters after knocking back two bottels of red wine is not good for one's mental health, believe me).

As much as I am against more government, I think there should be legal limits imposed for drinking and data entering.

[geoffrey]

... (reading certain posters after knocking back two bottels of red wine is not good for one's mental health, believe me).

As much as I am against more government, I think there should be legal limits imposed for drinking and data entering.

I probably wouldn't be posting anymore if that was the case...