Why do we need mass immigration again?

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, August1991 said:

To return to the OP, to succeed/survive, does a society need mass immigration?

Without immigration....

Iceland has survived for centuries.

Newfoundland also.

well first off what the hell does "Mass" immigration mean? It's a useless term that a former CPC loser came up with because it sounds cool but it means nothing.  How many immigrants is there in a 'mass'?  Are 10 a mass? 1000? Is it by weight?

So right off the bat the question is flawed. 

And it's not really a question of immigration directly -  the correct question is "do they benefit from an increasing population, and what level of increase produces the most positive result"?

I mean if they can reach the optimal population growth figure naturally without ANY immigration then they probably don't really need much immigration, , mass or otherwise. 

The fact is in most circumstances all else being equal with some exceptions, countries benefit from an increasing population provided that increase is at or below that country's increase in infrastructure (homes medicine education facilities job market etc). 

 If they can't do it naturally (and we can't, our birth rate isn't even anywhere near replacement never mind growth) then immigration is a good option PROVIDED the immigrants meet the criteria necessary for successful and quick integration and that population growth still follows the first rule. 

So the answer is a points based system which picks the best suitable candidates with a cap that makes sure we limit growth to the infrastructure-based target backed by a solid support infrastructure to make integration easy. 

That gives you the best chance at a strong economy and respectable growth

And between 2006 and 2015 that's what we had and our immigration system was the marvel of the world and even it's critics had to admit it was pretty damn good. Some fine tuning needed for sure  and there were hiccups but it worked pretty damn well.  

Now that's in the trashbin.  Our immigration is a disaster. 

But NO immigration would be just as bad. 

[Carol Dunlap]

When Conservatives come into power, they must abolish the position named Special Representative on Battling Islamaphobia as it creates special treatment for one ethnic group, This also creates a breeding ground for hate and prejudice.  Canadians should not be subjected to paying for a Liberal appointment that offers little or no value.  Conservatives will be taxed to resolve more important issues created by years of Liberal damage.  The fix will take a number of years to reinstate Canadian normality.

[I am Groot]

14 hours ago, CdnFox said:

well first off what the hell does "Mass" immigration mean? It's a useless term that a former CPC loser came up with because it sounds cool but it means nothing.  How many immigrants is there in a 'mass'?  Are 10 a mass? 1000? Is it by weight?

Mass immigration means bringing in so many immigrants so quickly we are unable to integrate them and they start forming their own separate ethnic ghettos, not learning our language or ways, and carrying on their own culture as if they were back home. And immigration Canada has been warning that this is precisely what has been happening for the last ten years. 

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Mass immigration means bringing in so many immigrants so quickly we are unable to integrate them and they start forming their own separate ethnic ghettos, not learning our language or ways, and carrying on their own culture as if they were back home. And immigration Canada has been warning that this is precisely what has been happening for the last ten years. 

Not according to bernier or anyone else. That may be your personal definiton but it is NOBODY else's. "Mass" doesn't mean any of that stuff so it would be a pretty weird definition if it was.  I mean why not measure immigration in 'ohms' then, or parsecs, or nanoseconds? 

Wikipedia has a different definiton,  it just defines it as a "Large group".  Well how big is 'large'?

Mass migration - Wikipedia

I just hate people using cheezy buzzwords to describe a serious topic when it clearly means they havne't thought about it. Not you specifically but i see it used all the time and 99.9 percent of users can't even give ANY definition.  At least you had SOMETHING to put forward. 

 But lets take your definition for now, contrived for the moment tho it may be.  So  how are you measuring that? Most immigrants have to pass a language proficiency test so right off the bat it seems we don't have 'mass' immigration.  And virtually all immigrants retain their culture from where theyr'e from, americans, irish (ever hear of st pattys day?) the english many russians....  in fact can't think of any ethnic group that doesn't.  In burnaby (greater vancouver) one of the most popular venues for events is the italian cultural center  so should we deport Italians?  Clearly they're not adapting. 

What immigration Canada and many others have been saying is that the number of immigrants coming in exceeds our ability to provide necessary infrastructure to support them including homes, medical services, etc. And if that's what you mean more or less then I suppose a term like excessive immigration would make more sense.  It exceeds our capacity to absorb them. 

And i do agree that is what's happening now and the gov't was warned it would cause inflationary and housing issues even 3 years ago and if anything they sped up immigration at that point. 

 

I just want to see us as a country have a rational and not emotional discussion about this. There is obviously a number of immigrants we can accept without negative effects. There is obviously a number that if we exceed it we'll have negative effects. And I think we have to discuss what's involved the figuring out that number and making sure that our immigration falls within it.

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Mass immigration means bringing in so many immigrants so quickly we are unable to integrate them and they start forming their own separate ethnic ghettos...

I'm pretty sure you're using the term ghetto in a pejorative context.

That said, it's like you've never heard of Chinatowns. Canada has 8 - the US has 55.

Edited August 25, 2024 by eyeball

[NAME REMOVED]

5 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Mass immigration means bringing in so many immigrants so quickly we are unable to integrate them and they start forming their own separate ethnic ghettos, not learning our language or ways, and carrying on their own culture as if they were back home. And immigration Canada has been warning that this is precisely what has been happening for the last ten years. 

In Alberta, Somalians have done this. even worse, they seem predisposed to crime. Even the homeless population will not associate with homeless Somalians. They went up to Fort McMurray to get a slice of the pie- not by working of course, but by selling drugs. Most left in body bags, since that area is "81" territory. 

 

Don't mess with the Big Red Machine...

[NAME REMOVED]

On 8/23/2024 at 12:44 AM, CdnFox said:

That depends.  Do you consider being an emotion driven unthinking tribal fanatic with delusions of adequacy an insult?

Mussolini was a socalist bud.  Did all the things you like, lots of social programs lots of 'progressive' stuff, lots of public works and public spending, health care....  he was one of you.  Left of him was stalin. 

You actually remind me of him a lot.  

Mussolini - NOT a socialist

Castro- Socialist

Karl Marx- Socialist

Stalin- Socialist

Hitler- NOT a socialist

 

[CdnFox]

30 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

Mussolini - NOT a socialist

 

He's a socialist.  He was huge into social programs for the people and a directed economy. 

Quote

Castro- Socialist

Communist - but that is a kind of socialist so sure.

Quote

Karl Marx- Socialist

Sure.

Quote

Stalin- Socialist

Sure

Quote

Hitler- NOT a socialist

Every bit as much as the other ones. 

 

Do you understand what a socialist is? Let's take a quick look at a dictionary definition

noun

 

1. a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

 

Owned OR regulated. 

 

Wikipedia gives a longer definition but it's basically the same. 

 

We have any number of models of socialism these days which involve market socialism, democratic socialism, etc where there are market forces but they are extremely heavily regulated by the government usually for specific social purposes. This often goes hand in hand with strong regulation of societal matters.

 

Hitler exercised extreme regulation and direction of germany's market economy. And he specifically stated that he did this because he believed that the market should exist strictly to serve the purposes and needs of the nation, of which he felt the primary was the need to expand militarily for lebensraum. He extended this regulation to civilian life as well. Hitler is a textbook socialist.

 

Mussolini is a little bit less of a clear-cut case but still very strongly socialistic in his leanings. He strongly controlled the market life but not so much as Hitler or modern-day Democratic socialists etc. He certainly brushes up against that but you could make an argument that while he is as I say socialistic, he is not socialist.

 

But Hitler? Absolutely. You will get those on the left who are desperately beverly excited about him being on the right so that they can demonize and dehumanize people illegitimately saying things like he didn't like"Real" socialists, Being those that believe that the needs of production should not just be controlled and regulated by the government but should be owned by the government. And it's true that he did hate them, but that does not mean he is not a socialist in his own right.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble, Hitler was a socialist. It's arguable that Mussolini was as well although perhaps slightly less so.

Edited August 25, 2024 by CdnFox

[Five of swords]

35 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

Mussolini - NOT a socialist

Castro- Socialist

Karl Marx- Socialist

Stalin- Socialist

Hitler- NOT a socialist

 

Have you read anything by Hitler? Watched any speech?

 

Out of your list, Hitler was the most socialist.

[NAME REMOVED]

1 hour ago, Five of swords said:

Have you read anything by Hitler? Watched any speech?

I took college courses in History on WW2.

Read this book from cover to cover in 1996.

Read this in 1997.

Grandpa was Chief Librarian of a canadian university. he had quite the collection of WW2 books.

1 hour ago, Five of swords said:

Out of your list, Hitler was the most socialist.

lol....only in name.

Having said that. I have to hand it to you.. Out of all the far right ppl on the forum, you are the only one who does not hide your real feelings about certain issues, that may be politically incorrect.

Edited August 25, 2024 by DUI_Offender

[Five of swords]

8 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

I took college courses in History on WW2.

Read this book from cover to cover in 1996.

Read this in 1997.

Grandpa was Chief Librarian of a canadian university. he had quite the collection of WW2 books.

lol....only in name.

Having said that. I have to hand it to you.. Out of all the far right ppl on the forum, you are the only one who does not hide your real feelings about certain issues, that may be politically incorrect.

So...you never read anything by Hitler.

Far right is a stupid and useless label.

[NAME REMOVED]

37 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

So...you never read anything by Hitler.

Far right is a stupid and useless label.

I read some of Mein Kampt. However, it was horrible.

 

Hitler did have many good ideas. However, his bizarre eugenics policies overshadowed any good he did.  For instance, he sent thousands of high ranking German military officials to Norway, with the sole purpose of impregnating Norweigan woman, as he believed Norweigans were an example of the master race.  The lead singer of ABBA was one of the children born out of this policy.  She had to flee to Sweden, or else her and her mother would have been shunned by Norway.

Edited August 25, 2024 by DUI_Offender

[Five of swords]

13 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

I read some of Mein Kampt. However, it was horrible.

 

Hitler did have many good ideas. However, his bizarre eugenics policies overshadowed any good he did.  For instance, he sent thousands of high ranking German military officials to Norway, with the sole purpose of impregnating Norweigan woman, as he believed Norweigans were an example of the master race.  The lead singer of ABBA was one of the children born out of this policy.  She had to flee to Norway, or else her and her mother would have been shunned by Norway.

Fake news. Hitler never said a word about any sort of master race.

[NAME REMOVED]

Just now, Five of swords said:

Fake news. Hitler never said a word about any sort of master race.

lol.

[Five of swords]

6 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

lol.

I'm not joking. In fact it is quite ironic what story normies like you are told about world War 2...because the whole attitude of being a master race would be more accurately associated with the uk, who started the whole war with germany.

[NAME REMOVED]

1 minute ago, Five of swords said:

I'm not joking. In fact it is quite ironic what story normies like you are told about world War 2...because the whole attitude of being a master race would be more accurately associated with the uk, who started the whole war with germany.

I created a thread to discuss all the positive things Hitler did in his life:

 

 

[Five of swords]

5 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

I created a thread to discuss all the positive things Hitler did in his life:

 

 

Dude...you didn't even know he was a socialist lol...there is no way you could speak about any ideas he had, good or bad

[NAME REMOVED]

Just now, Five of swords said:

Dude...you didn't even know he was a socialist lol...there is no way you could speak about any ideas he had, good or bad

Hitler was not a socialist. This is why I created a thread about Hitler. To educate you about his life work.

[Five of swords]

10 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

Hitler was not a socialist. This is why I created a thread about Hitler. To educate you about his life work.

You cannot educate me lol...that is insane. Hitler was a socialist and Germany under Hitler had a socialist planned economy.

[I am Groot]

15 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Not according to bernier or anyone else. T

I take my definition from information in an Immigration Canada report which pointed out all of the things I mentioned above. Too many, coming in too fast to absorb. By the way, only a fraction of immigrants must demonstrate any knowledge of English or French - and not to us, but to a foreign accredited school in their homeland. There is no interview to become a permanent resident, nor to become a citizen. The 'test' for the latter consists of 20 true/false or multiple choice questions which can be done over the internet. Which means the person doing it can easily cheat.

https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/douglas-todd-canada-struggling-to-absorb-immigrants-internal-report-says

[I am Groot]

13 hours ago, eyeball said:

I'm pretty sure you're using the term ghetto in a pejorative context.

That said, it's like you've never heard of Chinatowns. Canada has 8 - the US has 55.

Perhaps, but they've always been a tiny part of the citizenry. Immigrants are so numerous they're eventually going to outnumber people born here. They already do in Toronto and are close to it in Vancouver. And we've had plenty of evidence of late that immigrants vote first for the party that will allow the most immigrants in and second according to the politics of their homelands. Canada's well-being places a distant third, if that on their priorities, especially as many of them have no intention of staying here.

[CdnFox]

11 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

I took college courses in History on WW2.

Read this book from cover to cover in 1996.

Read this in 1997.

Grandpa was Chief Librarian of a canadian university. he had quite the collection of WW2 books.

lol....only in name.

Having said that. I have to hand it to you.. Out of all the far right ppl on the forum, you are the only one who does not hide your real feelings about certain issues, that may be politically incorrect.

Go ask for you money back from the college i guess  

oh - and btw - HE identifies as left as well, not right.     Sounds like you're wrong about all kinds of things  

At any rate - as an alleged student of history, you presumably noticed that hitler controlled  the means of production. That's literally the definition of a socialist. 

Sorry kiddo - hitler was one of your guys. 

[Five of swords]

9 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Go ask for you money back from the college i guess  

oh - and btw - HE identifies as left as well, not right.     Sounds like you're wrong about all kinds of things  

At any rate - as an alleged student of history, you presumably noticed that hitler controlled  the means of production. That's literally the definition of a socialist. 

Sorry kiddo - hitler was one of your guys. 

Nobody who actually had a politically relevant philosophy is going to identify as either left or right. Thinking you are on that fake artificial team just means you are controlled. The people who are actually in power create both of those teams and just try to divide the population 50/50.

Edited August 25, 2024 by Five of swords

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

I take my definition from information in an Immigration Canada report which pointed out all of the things I mentioned above. Too many, coming in too fast to absorb. By the way, only a fraction of immigrants must demonstrate any knowledge of English or French - and not to us, but to a foreign accredited school in their homeland. There is no interview to become a permanent resident, nor to become a citizen. The 'test' for the latter consists of 20 true/false or multiple choice questions which can be done over the internet. Which means the person doing it can easily cheat.

https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/douglas-todd-canada-struggling-to-absorb-immigrants-internal-report-says

Doesn't mention the word 'Mass" once. 

And while it refers to trends and activity it's not really referring to a state.   For example it doesn't note that there are enclaves,  it notes that they're expanding. But it doesn't give any frame of reference to what level of expansion would be appropriate, only that there is expansion. 

it doesn't even really say that the expansion is due to the NUMBER of immigrants.  Just that they're not being "Absorbed" at a suitable rate.  Number of immigrants may play a role in that but it's just as likely there's other reasons and volume isn't an issue. 

I think you and I are on the same page generally speaking that one way or another   if we're going to invite people to live here there HAS to be enough resources for them to live and integrate successfully and quickly into our society.  Whatever name we want to give it, that has to be our target, immigration cannot exceed our ability to do that. 

[taxme]

19 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Not according to bernier or anyone else. That may be your personal definiton but it is NOBODY else's. "Mass" doesn't mean any of that stuff so it would be a pretty weird definition if it was.  I mean why not measure immigration in 'ohms' then, or parsecs, or nanoseconds? 

Wikipedia has a different definiton,  it just defines it as a "Large group".  Well how big is 'large'?

Mass migration - Wikipedia

I just hate people using cheezy buzzwords to describe a serious topic when it clearly means they havne't thought about it. Not you specifically but i see it used all the time and 99.9 percent of users can't even give ANY definition.  At least you had SOMETHING to put forward. 

 But lets take your definition for now, contrived for the moment tho it may be.  So  how are you measuring that? Most immigrants have to pass a language proficiency test so right off the bat it seems we don't have 'mass' immigration.  And virtually all immigrants retain their culture from where theyr'e from, americans, irish (ever hear of st pattys day?) the english many russians....  in fact can't think of any ethnic group that doesn't.  In burnaby (greater vancouver) one of the most popular venues for events is the italian cultural center  so should we deport Italians?  Clearly they're not adapting. 

What immigration Canada and many others have been saying is that the number of immigrants coming in exceeds our ability to provide necessary infrastructure to support them including homes, medical services, etc. And if that's what you mean more or less then I suppose a term like excessive immigration would make more sense.  It exceeds our capacity to absorb them. 

And i do agree that is what's happening now and the gov't was warned it would cause inflationary and housing issues even 3 years ago and if anything they sped up immigration at that point. 

 

I just want to see us as a country have a rational and not emotional discussion about this. There is obviously a number of immigrants we can accept without negative effects. There is obviously a number that if we exceed it we'll have negative effects. And I think we have to discuss what's involved the figuring out that number and making sure that our immigration falls within it.

Okay, lets just call it a moratorium on immigration. Let's just go with an end to all immigration into Canada for at least 5 years, if not more, if needed. The Canada that i once knew is slowly disappearing fast thanks to the massive amounts of new legal and illegal non-white immigration that has been going on since old man Marxist Turdeau came to power in 1980 and who decided to slow down white immigration in favor of more non-white immigration.

Today, approx. 80% of all new immigrants are coming from non-white countries. The leftist liberal Marxists like to call it multiculturalism and diversity, but in reality, what those two words really mean is that they are part of a program and agenda and a recipe for white genocide. Believe it or not. 😇