Republican comrades spreading support for Marxism

[User]

26 minutes ago, Matthew said:

Well that's your opinion. Trans people in my state certainly feel targeted and directly impacted by the laws targeting them.

No, mine is objective. Yours is admittedly a feeling. 

27 minutes ago, Matthew said:

I have no stake or particular interest in transgender politics. Conservatives are the main ones elevating the issue and therefore promoting the cultural changes to wide appeal.

Of course, you do. You are here arguing about it and using the language in support of it while also framing it in disingenuous/inaccurate ways. 

No, it is the Demcorats/Liberals pushing this stuff onto kids, Conservatives are reacting to it. 

See, even now, you play this game. 

[Matthew]

47 minutes ago, User said:

No, mine is objective

Ah ok, explain how a law removing gender indentity from a state's civil rights act is not a law targeting transgender people.

47 minutes ago, User said:

You are here arguing about it and using the language in support of it

Nope, you've already admited that what I'm actually arguing in this thread is nothing that you care to discuss. The transgender politics is just another similar example of the trend.

47 minutes ago, User said:

Conservatives are reacting to it. 

As usual,  conservatives are reacting to a actual cultural trend that they have no way to actually combat.

Democrats, as usual, then react to the republicans' unpopular shenanigans so as to politically benefit from it.

It wasnt too different from gay marriage 15-20 years ago. Even in 2007 the Democratic party, and both Hillary and Obama were officially opposed to gay marriage. It wasn't until it gained wider acceptance at the state level, which republicans flipped out about, causing democrats to swoop in and suddenly become pro marriage equality.

Edited August 12, 2024 by Matthew

[User]

1 hour ago, Matthew said:

Ah ok, explain how a law removing gender indentity from a state's civil rights act is not a law targeting transgender people.

How are they targeted? No one is stopping them, but the State has no obligation to play along with their fantasy delusions. 

1 hour ago, Matthew said:

Nope

Yep, you have a clear position here, not sure why you are trying to play coy about it. 

1 hour ago, Matthew said:

As usual,  conservatives are reacting to a actual cultural trend that they have no way to actually combat.

When Democrats are passing laws FORCING this onto children, that is not a cultural trend we are talking about. 

It can be combated by opposing such laws. 

 

[Black Dog]

1 minute ago, User said:

How are they targeted? No one is stopping them, but the State has no obligation to play along with their fantasy delusions. 

Yep, you have a clear position here, not sure why you are trying to play coy about it. 

When Democrats are passing laws FORCING this onto children, that is not a cultural trend we are talking about. 

It can be combated by opposing such laws. 

 

What laws are forcing kids to become trans?

Edited August 12, 2024 by Black Dog

[User]

4 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

What laws are forcing kids to become trans?

Where did I say that? 

[Black Dog]

4 minutes ago, User said:

Where did I say that? 

What are they forcing onto children then and with what laws?

[Five of swords]

On 8/10/2024 at 11:34 PM, Matthew said:

What happens when you call all of your fairly moderate, centrist, opponents "communist," "socialist" and "Marxist" for decades? Especially when most normal people like the moderate, centrist liberal policies that you're labeling as such, and hate the vulgar hate and fear based politics of the right?

Actual Marxist socialist ideology is pretty complicated and the average person has little comprehension as to what it is. And actual leftists have very little influence in any major party, and barely have anything resembling mass media. So I have to assume that the significant increase in American support for socialism over the last decade is due in large part to miscalculated republican messaging more than anything else.

Out of a short-term desire to smear your opponent, you actually provide decades of free propoganda in support of actual leftist ideologies. 

Communism is not difficult to understand, and it is far more compatible with the republican party than the Democrat party.

[Michael Hardner]

13 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

Communism is not difficult to understand, and it is far more compatible with the republican party than the Democrat party.

🤔

 

Well 

...

 

Um 

...

 

How?

[User]

2 hours ago, Black Dog said:

What are they forcing onto children then and with what laws?

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-politics-and-policy/california-bans-school-rules-requiring-parents-get-notified-childs-pro-rcna162080

https://www.cnbctv18.com/world/california-passes-bill-incorporating-gender-affirmation-in-child-custody-cases-explained-17758741.htm

https://apnews.com/article/title-ix-education-department-9f7b89ec50657436e0e8110799b576d4

 

[Michael Hardner]

9 minutes ago, User said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-politics-and-policy/california-bans-school-rules-requiring-parents-get-notified-childs-pro-rcna162080

https://www.cnbctv18.com/world/california-passes-bill-incorporating-gender-affirmation-in-child-custody-cases-explained-17758741.htm

https://apnews.com/article/title-ix-education-department-9f7b89ec50657436e0e8110799b576d4

 

Based on the headlines, seems like you didn't answer the question...

[User]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

Based on the headlines, seems like you didn't answer the question...

How is that? 

 

[Five of swords]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

🤔

 

Well 

...

 

Um 

...

 

How?

Uh...lots of reasons. They both agree that the role of government is to provide for the material needs of the people. They both agree that class is the only legitimate identity. Etc.

[CdnFox]

4 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

Uh...lots of reasons. They both agree that the role of government is to provide for the material needs of the people. They both agree that class is the only legitimate identity. Etc.

The republicans do?

Kid... every day i say "that guy can't get any more weird" and every day you prove that i badly underestimate your abilities to do so   

[Five of swords]

Just now, CdnFox said:

The republicans do?

Kid... every day i say "that guy can't get any more weird" and every day you prove that i badly underestimate your abilities to do so   

...yeah, the Republicans do.

[Michael Hardner]

36 minutes ago, User said:

How is that? 

 

There's no reference to children being forced in those headlines... Seems like they, instead, have expanded rights and options...

 

Whether you're for this or against it is a different matter.

[CdnFox]

8 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

...yeah, the Republicans do.

They don't. At all.  You might as well claim that santa is real and he's going to grab jezuz and go end wars in the middle east permanently.    Or that the eath is flat. 
 

You just sound like an !diot.  Why be that way?

Edited August 13, 2024 by CdnFox

[Five of swords]

8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

They don't. At all.  You might as well claim that santa is real and he's going to grab jezuz and go end wars in the middle east permanently.    Or that the eath is flat. 
 

You just sound like an !diot.  Why be that way?

I think it was a common proverb in periclean athens: 'as a white line could measure chalk'

[User]

15 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

There's no reference to children being forced in those headlines... Seems like they, instead, have expanded rights and options...

I did not say "children being forced"

I choose my language carefully. What I said was:

"When Democrats are passing laws FORCING this onto children, that is not a cultural trend we are talking about. "

And if you actually did read the headlines, the last link I posted was in regards to the Title 9 changes pushed by Biden administration, that does in fact force girls to have to compete against boys in sports as well as share their personal spaces like locker rooms with them. 

Forcing girls to have to compete against boys is a regression of rights and options. 

When Democrats are forcing this crap onto children, as I actually said, they are cutting parents out of issues like gender identity of their own children through the law. 
 

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Five of swords said:

I think.....

It only took you two words to be wrong. 

[Matthew]

6 hours ago, User said:

How are they targeted? No one is stopping them, but the State has no obligation to play along with their fantasy delusions. 

A swing and a miss.

6 hours ago, User said:

Yep, you have a clear position here

Yes, my position here is that political attacks used by Republicans in an effort to get cheap votes end up promoting the thing they are claiming to oppose.

6 hours ago, User said:

When Democrats are passing laws FORCING this onto children, that is not a cultural trend we are talking about. 

Not a real thing. Republicans in my state are using authoritarian laws for social engineering purposes. To try to marginalize the people who think a certain way about their gender that they disagree with.

Intelligent people can absolutely disagree about the use of certain medical treatments on children. I don't think there is a scientific medical consesus on that issue yet. But most of the anti-trans laws being passed are far beyond this narrow part of the topic. But the anti-trans frenzy on the right is intense and highly mobilizing on the right, and highly unpopular overall, especially with young people who are vividly conscious of the discriminatory attitudes and policies being propagated.

Edited August 13, 2024 by Matthew

[Matthew]

7 hours ago, Five of swords said:

Communism is not difficult to understand, and it is far more compatible with the republican party than the Democrat party.

It's not compatible with either party,  but the current working class populism and disdain for educated technocrat seen in the Trump movement is surpisingly close to previous communist movements. It wouldn't take much for a charismatic right wing figure to one day latch onto that movement after trump has kicked the bucket and do an essentially ownership-to-the-workers leftist political project (in the classical economic sense) under the guise of right wing rhetoric. Especially since New Left type politics has veered away from the economic and labor goals once championed on among actual socialists and leftists. I would absolutely become a Republican if they started doing socialism. 😀

Edited August 13, 2024 by Matthew

[myata]

6 hours ago, Matthew said:

It's not compatible with either party,  but the current working class populism and disdain for educated technocrat seen in the Trump movement is surpisingly close to previous communist movements.

It's not just that. It is also a deep misunderstanding and mistrust of democracy. They like to think and convince their following that it's nothing more than a mob rule (that they could then control). This is what can be the common basis and platform for sympathy and understanding with totalitarian thugs of all kind.

Edited August 13, 2024 by myata

[Michael Hardner]

8 hours ago, Matthew said:

It's not compatible with either party,  but the current working class populism and disdain for educated technocrat seen in the Trump movement is surpisingly close to previous communist movements. It wouldn't take much for a charismatic right wing figure to one day latch onto that movement after trump has kicked the bucket and do an essentially ownership-to-the-workers leftist political project (in the classical economic sense) under the guise of right wing rhetoric. Especially since New Left type politics has veered away from the economic and labor goals once championed on among actual socialists and leftists. I would absolutely become a Republican if they started doing socialism. 😀

All the talk of the elites.... Sometimes including castigation of tech corporations or corporations in general..

Didn't they have a union leader speak at their convention??

[User]

9 hours ago, Matthew said:

A swing and a miss.

Nope. 

9 hours ago, Matthew said:

Yes, my position here is that political attacks used by Republicans in an effort to get cheap votes end up promoting the thing they are claiming to oppose.

LOL, it is comical watching you avoid admitting the obvious. I am not sure why you are playing this game. 

9 hours ago, Matthew said:

Not a real thing.

Yes, a real thing. Are you not aware of Bidens attempt to rewrite Title 9 and force that on the states? Of liberal controlled places like California forcing this into the schools with laws hiding gender identity from parents? 

9 hours ago, Matthew said:

Intelligent people can absolutely disagree about the use of certain medical treatments on children.

Intelligent people can always disagree about anything. It is the political left that is pushing this garbage onto children right now. 

9 hours ago, Matthew said:

But most of the anti-trans laws being passed are far beyond this narrow part of the topic.

Oh, you mean like saying girls don't have to compete against boys? Yet again, it is the political left who is pushing this madness.

You have to play these political games and label that "anti-trans" to avoid dealing with the specifics.

 

[Matthew]

2 hours ago, myata said:

It's not just that. It is also a deep misunderstanding and mistrust of democracy. They like to think and convince their following that it's nothing more than a mob rule (that they could then control). This is what can be the common basis and platform for sympathy and understanding with totalitarian thugs of all kind.

The MAGA brand of anti-democracy is more in line with traditional fascist movements, where democracy is seen as an impediment to the cause of national unity and that the ethics of democratic rights and due process are less important than the goal of compensating against some perceived national humiliation.

This nationalist approach would be a turn off to most socialists, who inherently value the idea of democracy and empowering ordinary people.  Though more authoritarian leninist type state socialists criticize democracy with the logic that purely individualized rights in a capitalist society are only actually protected for the ruling class and that voting is easily subverted by the power of propertied wealthy interests.

It's a subtle difference though in practice and ultimately I think you're right that the anti-democracy of the current republicans could contribute to their evolution into a de facto communist movement. Though populist workers movements tend to fizzle out before it gets to that.