Good to see the UK get back on Track!

[Iceni warrior]

On 7/8/2024 at 11:01 PM, Dougie93 said:

the European Union will eventually go so far right, that even you won't want to be a member of it anymore

since it's only a matter of time until the far right is ruling from Brussels

consider that, if there had been an European Union in the 1930's

the Fascists would have been able to seize power, nary a shot fired

There's a big difference between a mutually beneficial union and the third Reich.

Democracy for a start.

[Iceni warrior]

42 minutes ago, herbie said:

icene warrior you do realize you're on a site where a lot of people think Trudeau and Biden are extreme socialists.

Just advice from a DIpper that understands that in 2024 the NDP and Labour are the 'Diet Pepsis of socialism'.

Yeah, yeah, these same people think that 'Woke' is the biggest issue facing us today.

 

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Iceni warrior said:

There's a big difference between a mutually beneficial union and the third Reich.

Democracy for a start.

as if democracy is really in effect in this age of managerial elite rule ?

don't be naive

the ruling bureaucracy has no ideology other than its own ascendance to dictatorial rule

 

[Iceni warrior]

England wouldn't be in the Euros' final under Sunak.

We'd have been knocked out by the Swiss in the round of 16.

 

 

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, herbie said:

So tell us your plan where smaller markets mean economic growth?
 

 

LOL there's a number of ways to leverage a smaller market to be extremely successful    big and bloated doesn't mean more efficient. 

Did you think sweden or switzerland was poor until the eu came along?  Canada's growth matched the us for many years till justin threw it away and we're much smaller.  The UK has almost twice the population (market) and a 10th of the land mass to administer. 

But it doesn't just happen. You need to plan and make it happen. There has to be a plan. you have to develop the relationships you need with other countries, stimulate the growth in industries or services you're going to leverage, work it out. 

Now covid admittedly didn't help but that was not the whole issue. We'll see if these guys can do any better. 

[I am Groot]

On 7/7/2024 at 8:39 PM, Iceni warrior said:

That's not actually true.

The Tories and Reform together only just added up to more votes than Labour. When you take into account the Lib Dems, Green Party, SNP, Sinn Fein, Plaid Cymru votes for the left were well ahead.

The main reason Labour got so many seats though was Reform splitting the vote on the right. Their 5 seats cost the Tories up to 100 seats.

Thanks Manfrog.

This should be a lesson for Canada's Conservative Party. Because the same issues are in play here. And if Poilievre doesn't handle them properly he's going to find enough people voting for the PPC that he'll be a one-term wonder.

On 7/7/2024 at 9:37 PM, herbie said:

It was a stupid idea entirely without economic sense. You don't pull out of a major market and think you'll be better off alone.

It wasn't about economics. It was about sovereignty.

[I am Groot]

On 7/8/2024 at 5:15 AM, Iceni warrior said:

They had no plan at all. 

That's why it took 4 years to actually leave and why BoJo got caught lying to the Queen and illegally shutting down Parliament so he could sneak in a no deal exit without parliamentary scrutiny.

Rule number one Boris, Parliament is supreme. It's the reason your 'return of sovereignty' mantra was such bullshit. Every rule, regulation or law from Europe had to go before the Westminster Parliament.

One of the main irritants is that the European court of Human Rights won't allow anyone to be deported to somewhere unpleasant. Thus once you get to the UK, however illegally, you're there for life. They should have withdrawn from that but they didn't have the balls.

 

On 7/8/2024 at 5:15 AM, Iceni warrior said:

Good riddance to the Brexiteers, hopefully Nu Labour can start to repair the damage done and move us back closer to the EU.

They say they have no intention of going back to the EU.

[I am Groot]

On 7/10/2024 at 1:42 PM, CrazyCanuck89 said:

No, Labour will stop this victim mentality that Conservatives have.

They will pander like crazy to the Muslim community, who mostly vote Labour.

[CdnFox]

13 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

This should be a lesson for Canada's Conservative Party. Because the same issues are in play here. And if Poilievre doesn't handle them properly he's going to find enough people voting for the PPC that he'll be a one-term wonder.

 

Well, I think it's a little early to be worrying about the People's party, the greens have a better chance of influencing the election at this point.

But overall you're not wrong. People who vote conservative expect the conservatives to be conservative. Everyone gets that occasionally there is compromise. But overall as Aaron O'Toole found out if you run as a conservative but then act like a liberal conservatives will turn on you. 

The bottom line is if you deliver good results with an improved economy, improve freedoms, lower crime and more power in the provinces generally speaking even the liberals will think things are going pretty well. You don't have to outliberal the liberals to win their votes

[herbie]

23 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

This should be a lesson

Yes, the "Big tent" issue. Conservatives must openly accept every abhorrent group fascists, klansmen, nazis, white supremacists and evengelical zealots into their fold as the "left" don't like them and victory at any cost is what is important.
I mean really, stop with all those fringey choices and be like the USA where you can run the most foul, reprehensible criminal as a candidate possible and still possibly win. Silly Brits. [/s]

Edited July 11, 2024 by herbie

[I am Groot]

10 minutes ago, herbie said:

Yes, the "Big tent" issue. Conservatives must openly accept every abhorrent group fascists, klansmen, nazis, white supremacists and evengelical zealots into their fold as the "left" don't like them and victory at any cost is what is important.
I mean really, stop with all those fringey choices and be like the USA where you can run the most foul, reprehensible criminal as a candidate possible and still possibly win. Silly Brits. [/s]

You're a fruitloop.

[I am Groot]

19 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Well, I think it's a little early to be worrying about the People's party, the greens have a better chance of influencing the election at this point.

But overall you're not wrong. People who vote conservative expect the conservatives to be conservative. Everyone gets that occasionally there is compromise. But overall as Aaron O'Toole found out if you run as a conservative but then act like a liberal conservatives will turn on you. 

The bottom line is if you deliver good results with an improved economy, improve freedoms, lower crime and more power in the provinces generally speaking even the liberals will think things are going pretty well. You don't have to outliberal the liberals to win their votes

Immigration needs to be drastically cut.

Aside from agricultural workers foreign workers should be so few in number the ministers office should have to approve every one of them. And foreign student should be limited to only universities, and their numbers capped permanently, not just until after the election, as the Liberals have done. And they need to speed up the approval process for natural resource development and export and balance the budget. They also need to fix the damn military.

[CdnFox]

56 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Immigration needs to be drastically cut.

 

True.  I think different people will have a different view of what 'drastically' means but he's said he'll reduce it to match construction and that's a good start in my books, that'd likely put it at around 250k per year give or take. 

Quote

Aside from agricultural workers foreign workers should be so few in number the ministers office should have to approve every one of them.

Well he hasn't committed to much in that department. We'll have to see

Quote

And foreign student should be limited to only universities, and their numbers capped permanently, not just until after the election, as the Liberals have done

Looks like they're moving to make sure it's 'University only" but i doubt there will be a hard cap. Maybe though.

Quote

And they need to speed up the approval process for natural resource development and export and balance the budget.

They also need to fix the damn military.

I think you're probably asking a lot out of 4 years   I think they can start to make head way on a lot of that but they probably can't complete on all of that in 1 term. It's like bringing a lambourgini that was driven off a high cliff and then hit by anti tank fire to the body shop and saying "i'd like it friday pls'  

They'll make good headway but i doubt they'll get everything done on all of those issues before the following election. The military alone is going to take a lot of years. 

[CDN1]

15 hours ago, herbie said:

Yes, the "Big tent" issue. Conservatives must openly accept every abhorrent group fascists, klansmen, nazis, white supremacists and evengelical zealots into their fold as the "left" don't like them and victory at any cost is what is important.
I mean really, stop with all those fringey choices and be like the USA where you can run the most foul, reprehensible criminal as a candidate possible and still possibly win. Silly Brits. [/s]

The left has a serious anti-White problem. The so-called moderates are culpable of ignoring its normalization and pervasive spread through institutions.

When the White population across the West falls off a cliff over the next 20-30 years, there will be a real reckoning over these policies.

Edited July 12, 2024 by CDN1

[Iceni warrior]

On 7/11/2024 at 11:09 PM, I am Groot said:

One of the main irritants is that the European court of Human Rights won't allow anyone to be deported to somewhere unpleasant. Thus once you get to the UK, however illegally, you're there for life. They should have withdrawn from that but they didn't have the balls.

 

They say they have no intention of going back to the EU.

Damn them human rights, who needs them?

You can renew a lot of ties without re-joining the EU. Closer trading with fewer regulations, cross border checks etc. 

 

[I am Groot]

11 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

Damn them human rights, who needs them?

If the interpretation of  'human rights' means that any foreigner who arrives illegally can stay if they please then it needs to go. Decisions on national sovereignty and border enforcement have to be with the nation itself, not with foreigners somewhere else.

The same goes for Canada, which needs to pull out of the UN convention on refugees and any other agreement governing asylum, then rewrite the law so we can block anyone arriving from a safe third country, or anyone without proper papers, and do a quicky hearing for others. 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2024 by I am Groot

[Iceni warrior]

6 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

If the interpretation of  'human rights' means that any foreigner who arrives illegally can stay if they please then it needs to go. Decisions on national sovereignty and border enforcement have to be with the nation itself, not with foreigners somewhere else.

The same goes for Canada, which needs to pull out of the UN convention on refugees and any other agreement governing asylum, then rewrite the law so we can block anyone arriving from a safe third country, or anyone without proper papers, and do a quicky hearing for others. 

 

 

No it doesn't. Plenty of illegal immigrants have been returned to their country of origin.

We just can't deport people to countries where they will be unsafe.

[CdnFox]

41 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

 

We just can't deport people to countries where they will be unsafe.

 

Have you tried parachutes? 

IF they're making YOUR country unsafe - then it shouldn't be a problem

[I am Groot]

5 hours ago, Iceni warrior said:

No it doesn't. Plenty of illegal immigrants have been returned to their country of origin.

Quantify 'plenty' against 150k per year coming in?

5 hours ago, Iceni warrior said:

We just can't deport people to countries where they will be unsafe.

Which is almost everywhere outside the West if you claim you're gay or trans. And you don't even have to be p physically unsafe. We recently granted refugee status to a couple of lesbians from Japan, of all places, because they said they were discriminated against at home. Not in danger. Not being oppressed or targeted by the government. Just discriminated against.

[Dougie93]

On 7/10/2024 at 6:09 PM, Iceni warrior said:

There's a big difference between a mutually beneficial union and the third Reich.

Democracy for a start.

the NSDAP were elected to office

Hitler didn't seize power by force, the Third Reich was incandescently popular domestically, right up until 1942

[blackbird]

The UK has become a disaster case with the endless illegal migrants pouring in from the third world in Africa.  The conservative government struggled with that issue and made some feeble attempts to slow it down.  Under the new Labour government it will just get worse and worse and the crisis in the health care system and other departments will only get worse.  I doubt the Labour government will be able to solve much of the problems.  They will take a soft-on-crime approach to all the knife attacks also, but will spend a lot of money trying.

Being part of the EU meant Britain had no control over immigration.  That was forced on the UK by the EU.  Now after Brexit, technically there was supposed to be some control, but illegal migrants just kept arriving.  There are those in the UK who want to reverse Brexit and go back to the EU.  We will see how that goes.  But that may be against the will of the people who voted to leave.

Edited July 14, 2024 by blackbird

[blackbird]

11 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

the NSDAP were elected to office

Hitler didn't seize power by force, the Third Reich was incandescently popular domestically, right up until 1942

"Hitler’s rise to power traces to 1919, when he joined the German Workers’ Party that became the Nazi Party. With his oratorical skills and use of propaganda, he soon became its leader. Hitler gained popularity nationwide by exploiting unrest during the Great Depression, and in 1932 he placed second in the presidential race. Hitler’s various maneuvers resulted in the winner, Paul von Hindenburg, appointing him chancellor in January 1933. The following month the Reichstag fire occurred, and it provided an excuse for a decree overriding all guarantees of freedom. Then on March 23 the Enabling Act was passed, giving full powers to Hitler. When Hindenburg died on August 2, 1934, the chancellorship and the presidency were merged, and Hitler secured his position as Führer (“leader”)."

How did Adolf Hitler rise to power? | Britannica

That sounds like he seized power.

 

[Dougie93]

30 minutes ago, blackbird said:

"Hitler’s rise to power traces to 1919, when he joined the German Workers’ Party that became the Nazi Party. With his oratorical skills and use of propaganda, he soon became its leader. Hitler gained popularity nationwide by exploiting unrest during the Great Depression, and in 1932 he placed second in the presidential race. Hitler’s various maneuvers resulted in the winner, Paul von Hindenburg, appointing him chancellor in January 1933. The following month the Reichstag fire occurred, and it provided an excuse for a decree overriding all guarantees of freedom. Then on March 23 the Enabling Act was passed, giving full powers to Hitler. When Hindenburg died on August 2, 1934, the chancellorship and the presidency were merged, and Hitler secured his position as Führer (“leader”)."

How did Adolf Hitler rise to power? | Britannica

That sounds like he seized power.

actually no

Hitler's attempt to seize power was the Beer Hall Putsch  of 1923

which failed miserably, resulting in Hitler being arrested and imprisoned

wherein he changed strategies, writing & publishing Mein Kampf 

which became a best seller

then when he was released from prison he  employed his carefully crafted oratory

allowing him to gain power by democracy in 1933, when he received the plurality of votes in the election

the President, Hindenberg, could only appoint Hitler as Chancellor

because the NSDAP had the most seats in the Reichstag by way of the democratic  election

to wit, there is nothing inherently good about democracy

as it is simply the tyranny of the majority

Edited July 14, 2024 by Dougie93