War in Sudan: No Jews Involved, so Nobody Cares

[Rebound]

Some facts from the United Nations about the War in Sudan:

• Estimated that over 2.5 million killed -- more than the entire population of Gaza! 
• Current conflict ongoing since April 15, 2023 -- more than 2x as long as War in Gaza!
• Has displaced over 8.6 million people -- more than 4x the population of Gaza!
• Healthcare facilities, equipment and workers repeatedly attacked -- but it's ok, cause it's not Jews doing it!
• 2.7 million children face acute malnutrition -- more than 5x the amount in Gaza! 

Anti-semitism is alive and well in the United States of America. The anti-Israel protests are fueled by hatred of Jews. 

Has any campus protested:

• War in Sudan? NO
• War in Ukraine? NO
• Rwandan Genocide? NO
• War in Haiti? NO
• War in Nigeria? NO
• War in Burkina Faso? NO
• War in Somalia? NO

Anti-semitism is alive and well in the United States of America. The anti-Israel protests are fueled by hatred of Jews. 

Edited May 17, 2024 by Rebound

[impartialobserver]

A few things..

1. This has been ongoing in some form or another since the late 1970's. 

2. the nations involved; Sudan, South Sudan, Chad, Eritrea, Libya, and Egypt are mostly poor and off the radar. I read more African literature than anyone on this forum and its probably not even close. And even then, this story is not the lead one on my radar. 

3. Because of the relatively poverty of most of these nations listed.. media coverage is quite spotty. Yes, there is information as you found. However, there is not nearly the media coverage needed to fuel a protest. 

4. Lastly, most Americans have little direct or familial connection to Sudan, Chad, Eritrea, or South Sudan. 

[robosmith]

Jews in Israel (and the US) are protesting the war Netanyahu is waging against Gazans. They are no more anti-semites than the other protesters.

They KNOW that Netanyahu's extreme disproportionate response is fueling anti-Semitism worldwide.

What you are proposing is a false equivalence, cause war is not equally unjust everywhere.

[Rebound]

35 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Jews in Israel (and the US) are protesting the war Netanyahu is waging against Gazans. They are no more anti-semites than the other protesters.

They KNOW that Netanyahu's extreme disproportionate response is fueling anti-Semitism worldwide.

What you are proposing is a false equivalence, cause war is not equally unjust everywhere.

Let me ask you the World's Simplest Question: If tomorrow you became Prime Minister of Israel, and Hamas has:

• Attacked your country
• Declared War
• Murdered 1,400 civilians
• Kidnapped 250 additional civilians
• Refused to step down from power
• Refused to stop fighting against you

Would you honestly just withdraw from Gaza and keep Hamas in power?

The government of Israel, liberal or conservative, has an obligation to defend its citizens. If Israel withdraws from Gaza, Hamas will remain in power and they will continue to attack Israel. That would be unacceptable to:

• Israel, and
• Any other nation on Earth in similar circumstances

Hamas is a terrorist organization. They seized power in Gaza by pulling the elected Fatah leaders from their homes and murdering them in the streets. You are literally and actually defending terrorists. You have already acknowledged that there is no way for Israel to defeat Hamas without incurring civilian casualties, especially because all Hamas combatant deaths are being classified as "civilian." If Israel kills a 16 year-old Hamas fighter armed with an AK-47, then "Israel has murdered a civilian child." 

 

Edited May 17, 2024 by Rebound

[Rebound]

48 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

A few things..

1. This has been ongoing in some form or another since the late 1970's. 

2. the nations involved; Sudan, South Sudan, Chad, Eritrea, Libya, and Egypt are mostly poor and off the radar. I read more African literature than anyone on this forum and its probably not even close. And even then, this story is not the lead one on my radar. 

3. Because of the relatively poverty of most of these nations listed.. media coverage is quite spotty. Yes, there is information as you found. However, there is not nearly the media coverage needed to fuel a protest. 

4. Lastly, most Americans have little direct or familial connection to Sudan, Chad, Eritrea, or South Sudan. 

Is Gaza wealthier than Egypt and Libya? That's news! Is their per capita GNP larger than those other nations? No. 

The difference is Jews. What's really going on is that ultra-liberal people of all stripes see this as some sort of "White People Colonizing the Dark-Skinned people" situation. But that's not the situation. Over half of Israeli Jews are Sephardic. That means they are ethnically Arabs, no different from Palestinians. And they're in Israel because they or their families were forcibly expelled from their ancestral Arab nations, including Libya, Ethiopia, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Tunisia, Morocco, etc... and, once again... NOBODY GIVES A SH1T!  Right? Cause it's OK to kick a Jew out. Right? Have you ever heard anyone ever protest the Jews getting expelled from the Arab countries?  Nope. Crickets. 

[robosmith]

32 minutes ago, Rebound said:

Let me ask you the World's Simplest Question: If tomorrow you became Prime Minister of Israel, and Hamas has:

• Attacked your country
• Declared War
• Murdered 1,400 civilians
• Kidnapped 250 additional civilians
• Refused to step down from power
• Refused to stop fighting against you

Would you honestly just withdraw from Gaza and keep Hamas in power?

The government of Israel, liberal or conservative, has an obligation to defend its citizens. If Israel withdraws from Gaza, Hamas will remain in power and they will continue to attack Israel. That would be unacceptable to:

• Israel, and
• Any other nation on Earth in similar circumstances

Hamas is a terrorist organization. They seized power in Gaza by pulling the elected Fatah leaders from their homes and murdering them in the streets. You are literally and actually defending terrorists. You have already acknowledged that there is no way for Israel to defeat Hamas without incurring civilian casualties, especially because all Hamas combatant deaths are being classified as "civilian." If Israel kills a 16 year-old Hamas fighter armed with an AK-47, then "Israel has murdered a civilian child." 

 

It was Netanyahu's FAILURE to defend against the KNOWN PLANNED Hamas attack that made it successful.

I am NOT "defending terrorists," I am saying that Netanyahu is EQUALLY responsible for the extent of the damage done by Hamas.

It is you who is defending Netanyahu's role in that tragedy.

Civilians are vulnerable in war, and MUCH MORE SO when the attacks are indiscriminate BOMBING with 2000lb bombs in highly populated areas from which there is NO ESCAPE.

Netanyahu is giving Hamas exactly what they want.

[Rebound]

25 minutes ago, robosmith said:

It was Netanyahu's FAILURE to defend against the KNOWN PLANNED Hamas attack that made it successful.

I am NOT "defending terrorists," I am saying that Netanyahu is EQUALLY responsible for the extent of the damage done by Hamas.

It is you who is defending Netanyahu's role in that tragedy.

Civilians are vulnerable in war, and MUCH MORE SO when the attacks are indiscriminate BOMBING with 2000lb bombs in highly populated areas from which there is NO ESCAPE.

Netanyahu is giving Hamas exactly what they want.

George Bush got a briefing that said, “bin Laden Determined to Attack.” But could he have really stopped the 9/11 attacks?  Very difficult to say. It’s always easy to piece together the clues after the fact.  
 

You are defending terrorists.  
The terrorists attacked Israel and declared war and said they will keep fighting. There is only one way to stop this: You wage war until your enemy surrenders or is destroyed. You think like an umpire. Israel does not have that luxury. They have Israeli citizens — Muslim and Jew — to defend. That is their responsibility, not the children in the schools that are build above Hamas’ tunnels.  Hamas is responsible for protecting Gaza’s children, and they aren’t doing that.  
 

You care more about the children of Gaza than Hamas does.  I think it’s better for the children of Gaza to destroy Hamas.  Since their own parents are too cowardly to do it, then the IDF has to.  And they will.  

Edited May 17, 2024 by Rebound

[herbie]

On 5/17/2024 at 11:02 AM, Rebound said:

Let me ask you the World's Simplest Question: If tomorrow you became Prime Minister of Israel, and Hamas has:

Crush them totally as quickly as possible. Not without regard to the consequences, but knowing the job will be done before you face those consequences.
Not approach it like you want the fight to go on 15 rounds.

[Rebound]

21 minutes ago, herbie said:

Crush them totally as quickly as possible. Not without regard to the consequences, but knowing the job will be done before you face those consequences.
Not approach it like you want the fight to go on 15 rounds.

Isn’t that what Israel is doing?  
Your answer is vague.  

[herbie]

The 15 round reference is too vague for you?

Like FFS the lake here is bigger than Gaza and they've dragged it out like the siege of Leningrad, plus act like landlords who must give 2 months notice for every move they want to make. Clear enough?

[WestCanMan]

On 5/17/2024 at 10:17 AM, impartialobserver said:

A few things..

1. This has been ongoing in some form or another since the late 1970's. 

2. the nations involved; Sudan, South Sudan, Chad, Eritrea, Libya, and Egypt are mostly poor and off the radar. I read more African literature than anyone on this forum and its probably not even close. And even then, this story is not the lead one on my radar. 

3. Because of the relatively poverty of most of these nations listed.. media coverage is quite spotty. Yes, there is information as you found. However, there is not nearly the media coverage needed to fuel a protest. 

4. Lastly, most Americans have little direct or familial connection to Sudan, Chad, Eritrea, or South Sudan. 

TBH I never really know what's happening in Congo. I just found out one minute ago that there was a coup attempt just today. 

They were at war forever, and the number of deaths was high enough to draw comparisons to a world war (6M?), but it wasn't on our radar. Most people know nothing about it.

I think the difference is that when tribes are at war with each other, there's no clear way to react on an international level. By contrast, in a war like Ukraine/Russia or Hamas/Israel, there are clearly defined leadership groups that we can interact with as nations, and if we can get Zelenski and/or Putin say "stop", it's completely over. It's not really like that with primarily tribal battles. Separating tribal battles is like stopping a bunch of dogfights simultaneously. No one has enough control to do that.

The concept of nations is not universal. A lot of African and even Arabic countries are still tribal in nature. Their national identity is of secondary importance.

[impartialobserver]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

TBH I never really know what's happening in Congo. I just found out one minute ago that there was a coup attempt just today. 

They were at war forever, and the number of deaths was high enough to draw comparisons to a world war (6M?), but it wasn't on our radar. Most people know nothing about it.

I think the difference is that when tribes are at war with each other, there's no clear way to react on an international level. By contrast, in a war like Ukraine/Russia or Hamas/Israel, there are clearly defined leadership groups that we can interact with as nations, and if we can get Zelenski and/or Putin say "stop", it's completely over. It's not really like that with primarily tribal battles. Separating tribal battles is like stopping a bunch of dogfights simultaneously. No one has enough control to do that.

The concept of nations is not universal. A lot of African and even Arabic countries are still tribal in nature. Their national identity is of secondary importance.

That is another aspect to Sudan/South Sudan/Eritrea that differs from Israel. Yes, the mostly arbitrary national boundaries created by the colonial powers has caused a lot of conflict and deaths. The national boundaries cross the tribal boundaries and being that they care more about the tribe than the nation, the conflict has another layer. The conflict in Sudan is between the more Arab north (better economically) and the poorer but darker skinned African population in the South. It mostly boils down to a rural vs. urban rift coupled with Islam vs. Non-Islam.

[CdnFox]

On 5/17/2024 at 10:17 AM, impartialobserver said:

A few things..

1. This has been ongoing in some form or another since the late 1970's. 

 

Where is Israel and Palestine has been at peace for most of that time and .......wait, hang on a minute.... 

[impartialobserver]

On 5/20/2024 at 4:38 PM, CdnFox said:

Where is Israel and Palestine has been at peace for most of that time and .......wait, hang on a minute.... 

Most online discussion about Israel centers on the period from Oct. 7 to the Present.. the war in Sudan goes been ongoing for much longer than that.