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If Hamas Released Hostages the War in Gaza Would be Over in 24 Hours


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On 5/16/2024 at 7:51 PM, Black Dog said:

Oh so they wouldn't end the war until they got their fill of revenge, hostages or no. So what makes you think they have now, considering they just rejected another offer to free the hostages in exchange for a ceasefire? You really need to come to grips with the fact the hostages are irrelevant to Israel's government, which is something even the families of those still in captivity are saying.

This is such a childish position or one that is beyond purposefully dishonest. 

The fact that Israel will not just agree to completely withdrawal and give everything right back to Hamas in exchange for non-specific bodies of Hostages Hamas won't even confirm if dead or alive doesn't mean Israel thinks the Hostages are irrelevant. 

You are here playing this dishonest game for Hamas, I know you are not this naive. 

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6 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Hamas only has itself to blame. I feel sympathy for the innocent civilians, but none for the consequences that Hamas has brought onto itself.

They clearly don't value life. They are animals (Hamas).

Give them death, then.

You would have said the same thing about Palestinians on the day Israel was created, long long before Hamas was even a concept?

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7 minutes ago, User said:

How are the Israelis getting to do this?

The Balfour Declaration and subsequent declarations of the UN and League of Nations.

Quote

Reminder - Average Palestinian people exploited October 7th to loot Israeli homes

Reminder, we're still talking about 1948 not Oct 7.

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18 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The Balfour Declaration and subsequent declarations of the UN and League of Nations.

How did those things do what you claim?

18 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Reminder, we're still talking about 1948 not Oct 7.

I know, you like to ignore what the Palestinians did on October 7th when you try to claim they did not do anything that day... 

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2 hours ago, User said:

How did those things do what you claim?

They gave the green light to just move in and take over.

They even had a plan Canada helped design on how to make it look and feel all ethical and moral.  Making it legal was the easy part. 

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I know, you like to ignore what the Palestinians did on October 7th when you try to claim they did not do anything that day...

Excuse me? I've said those were crimes against humanity that should be prosecuted against the perpetrators. I've also pointed out that because Palestine is not allowed to exist as a state there is no one with whom to have the sort of treaties and agreements in place that allow for civilized ways of dealing with trans-border criminality. Instead we have the slaughter of thousands of innocent people and of course the creation of the next and probably even more hate-filled resistance.

As for you along with everyone else who can't seem to put on a simple pair pf shoes, you act as if everything was rainbows and lollipops and sugar-water long since under the bridge on Oct 6th.

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1 hour ago, eyeball said:

As for you along with everyone else who can't seem to put on a simple pair pf shoes, you act as if everything was rainbows and lollipops and sugar-water long since under the bridge on Oct 6th.

It wasn't rainbows and lollipops but at least there was a bridge. Unfortunately Hamas decided to blow up the bridge.

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4 minutes ago, Legato said:

It wasn't rainbows and lollipops but at least there was a bridge. Unfortunately Hamas decided to blow up the bridge.

What bridge? And did Hamas run the decision to blow it up past Palestinians before doing so? I highly doubt it as evidenced by the fact thousands of ordinary Palestinians and especially Gazans still showed up to work the morning of Oct 7th like it was any other morning.  There is far better reason to believe Hamas was listening to Iran, Russia and China telling it what to do and when.  I'm also willing to bet Iranians and its been suggested ISIS participated in the attacks and very likely committed most the atrocities because their excessive brutality was a calculated tactic designed to create exactly what's happened, a great deal of instability in the region and political divisiveness amongst the populations of Israel's allies.  

I base this sense of things on the general tone and mood of the times we live in and I think this op ed captures the economic and geopolitical reasons behind the attacks of Oct 7. 

Terry Newman is an author with two decades of political and  business experience across the Middle East.

This is who lit the match in the Middle East — and who poured the fuel

Russian President Vladimir Putin speaks to Chinese President Xi Jinping during the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) summit in Samarkand, September 2022

https://www.euronews.com/2024/04/30/this-is-who-lit-the-match-in-the-middle-east-and-who-poured-the-fuel

 

Then there's John Bolton's take to consider.

The real problem, of course, is Tehran. Until a sane government, even if not Jeffersonian democracy, replaces the mullahs, there will be no peace and security for anyone in the Middle East.

This is a hard truth for many to swallow because it inevitably requires regime change in Iran. Yet, inarguably, that is what Iran’s people want. Not since the 1979 Islamic Revolution itself has the regime been so weak and threatened. Success for Iran in the current conflict, after facing down Israel, America and the West generally, will only strengthen the ayatollahs’ rule. That’s why Winston Churchill’s World War II admonition to Britain applies today to Israel: “without victory, there is no survival.”

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4407277-oct-7-was-the-opening-attack-in-irans-ring-of-fire-war-against-israel/#:~:text=The real problem,is no survival.”

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/12/2024 at 11:29 AM, eyeball said:

It would be more accurate to say Hamas doesn't want peace. For the same reason Netanyahu's political coalition doesn't want peace.

Peace would make them both redundant.

Finally I see an appropriate party-party "Hamas-Netanyahu" reference rather than the "Israel-Hamas" label, a country-party type reference that our Western media sells the war as.

I look close at how the media shows its bias by how they label things, like how the term, "Isis" (over "Isil" or "Daish") was preferred as an indirect means to inoculate the audience to the link of the Egyptian 'god' to terrorism. Some of us in the skeptic community have referenced Isis to the Jewish messiah and to the Christian Jesus, in particular. 

As to the comment here, I think that both extremes will always exist regardless. The one-state nor two-state solution will work because of this fact. I think that the only realistic solution is to 're-state' a single territory that is democratic to ALL people and that requires a distinct separation of ANY religion [to its governors]. Both extremes are 'fascist' by definition and why they will NOT agree to a two-state solution. 

[Definition? "Fascism" is the belief that a constituted state should serve one genetic class of people with a specific religious criteria that links their people as 'indigenous' to the land by the auspices of so 'Superior' being. That is, each extreme believes that they are rightfully proprietary owners of the land by Nature (as their 'God' represents) and based upon that genetic link of ancestral heritage. ] I'm not sure if you or others might agree but it is worth discussing as a point on this topic.

Edited by Scott Mayers
added "[to its governors]" that I forgot to initially
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On 5/12/2024 at 8:25 AM, Perspektiv said:

This was acknowledged by Biden, himself. The obvious.

Gaza doesn't want the war to end, nor to protect the best interests of its population. 

Why is the onus entirely on Israel to bring a stop to this conflict?

What am I missing here?

You ignore that the Palestinian's whole population in both the West Bank and Gaza are in giant concentration camps of Israel. That is, their whole population is held 'hostage' and why Hamas has opted to choose kidnapping some of Israel's own innocent hostages as a counter-defensive strategy. 

I asked this to the Jewish members of the Liberal Party to imagine if a subset of Germany's Jewish population within one of their concentration camps during WWII were to decide to kidnap their Nazi guard's innocent children as a means to try to free the whole of the population among them, would they think that those rogue members who organized it among the Jewish were to be thought of as acting irrationally 'terroristic'? I think it was convincing enough to perhaps make some change their minds in quitting the party over disagreements about Israel's role in all this. 

Does this help change your own perspective?

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On 5/16/2024 at 4:45 PM, Black Dog said:

Hey man quick question, what's the thread title here.

Yes I'm aware Israel never cared about the hostages (which is why the IDF killed so many Israelis on Oct. 7) and is prosecuting this war because it's the only thing keeping that crooked s.o.b. Bibi in power.

Wait...

The IDF killed Israelis on October 7th?

Edited by Nationalist
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1 hour ago, Scott Mayers said:

That is, their whole population is held 'hostage'

Why is that?

Why is there a sea and air embargo imposed on Hamas?

Are they victims, or is this of their own doing?

Neither party is innocent. You can't make either look like a victim. 

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35 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Why is that?

Why is there a sea and air embargo imposed on Hamas?

Are they victims, or is this of their own doing?

Neither party is innocent. You can't make either look like a victim. 

I'm being absolutely censored and so am unable to answer!! Every word was taken out. It would be interesting to learn HOW this was done immediately upon clicking 'submit reply' Then I was redirected to a thread I did not even look at! If this gets posted, print it before this gets removed for later interests.

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3 hours ago, Scott Mayers said:

You ignore that the Palestinian's whole population in both the West Bank and Gaza are in giant concentration camps of Israel. That is, their whole population is held 'hostage' and why Hamas has opted to choose kidnapping some of Israel's own innocent hostages as a counter-defensive strategy. 

I asked this to the Jewish members of the Liberal Party to imagine if a subset of Germany's Jewish population within one of their concentration camps during WWII were to decide to kidnap their Nazi guard's innocent children as a means to try to free the whole of the population among them, would they think that those rogue members who organized it among the Jewish were to be thought of as acting irrationally 'terroristic'? I think it was convincing enough to perhaps make some change their minds in quitting the party over disagreements about Israel's role in all this. 

Does this help change your own perspective?

No, they are not in "giant concentration camps" of Israel. Palestinians travel to Jordan to travel abroad from there all the time. Gaza is a bit different, because Hamas has been at war with Israel repeatedly since the mid 2000's. So, Israel has a lot more restrictions on what it takes to travel from there. 

The whole population is not held hostage, and if another country like Egypt offered to take them in, Israel would gladly let many of them go... but, guess what? Many other countries don't want a bunch of terrorists destabilizing their country, too; they are glad to let Israel deal with the mess instead. 

Trying to compare this to a literal Nazi Concentraion is camp is not only absurdly moronic, but it is especially disgusting figuring that Hitler used those camps to systematically kill MILLIONS of Jews. Israel is not doing any such thing to the Palestinians. 

 

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1 hour ago, Scott Mayers said:

I'm being absolutely censored and so am unable to answer!! Every word was taken out. It would be interesting to learn HOW this was done immediately upon clicking 'submit reply' Then I was redirected to a thread I did not even look at! If this gets posted, print it before this gets removed for later interests.

Censored? On this site?

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1 minute ago, Black Dog said:

Yes, where have you been?

Ahhh...I get it.

You're referring to the accusations that the IDF may have killed a few Israelis with "friendly fire".

Man...that's such a weak accusation.

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1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Censored? On this site?

I thought the same thing. You beat me to it.

3 hours ago, Scott Mayers said:

I'm being absolutely censored and so am unable to answer!!

You technically just did answer.

Reminds me of a magician that performed for my grade school, outside. 

There was a helicopter, and he instructed all kids to look up, which they did. I kept looking at him, as he placed something in a hat. 

When everyone looked back down, they were in shock at how he could have done his trick. I was a kid, so not much of a muzzle, so protested what he had just done, and was quickly silenced by the teachers.

You're essentially the magician version of that story.

Long story short, you don't have a point to bring to the table. 

Nobody is looking up. You're literally caught in the act.

 

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On 5/28/2024 at 3:58 AM, Scott Mayers said:

Finally I see an appropriate party-party "Hamas-Netanyahu" reference rather than the "Israel-Hamas" label, a country-party type reference that our Western media sells the war as

Not referring to Palestine is a denial of their existence - it's the foundation on which colonization and subjugation is based.

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Unfortunately in this case, what the Palestinians in Gaza did is an afront to humanity. It's sick beyond the pale. I'm surprised Israel didn't kill 'em all on the 8th...quite frankly. It would have ended this garbage once and for all.

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14 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Unfortunately in this case, what the Palestinians in Gaza did is an afront to humanity. It's sick beyond the pale. I'm surprised Israel didn't kill 'em all on the 8th...quite frankly. It would have ended this garbage once and for all.

As a western country, they must follow international laws.

Honestly, if they handled it how they should, they would have surprise attacked the living daylights out of Hamas, collateral damage and all.

Reality is they must take utmost precautions in warning civilians to minimize carnage.

A courtesy they weren't afforded October 7, but as a western country they are above (or are supposed to be) behaving like animals.

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1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

As a western country, they must follow international laws.

Honestly, if they handled it how they should, they would have surprise attacked the living daylights out of Hamas, collateral damage and all.

Reality is they must take utmost precautions in warning civilians to minimize carnage.

A courtesy they weren't afforded October 7, but as a western country they are above (or are supposed to be) behaving like animals.

War is Hell. If you're not prepared for Hell,  don't start wars...especially by committing unthinkable acts.

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On 5/28/2024 at 8:12 AM, Scott Mayers said:

You ignore that the Palestinian's whole population in both the West Bank and Gaza are in giant concentration camps of Israel. That is, their whole population is held 'hostage' and why Hamas has opted to choose kidnapping some of Israel's own innocent hostages as a counter-defensive strategy. 

I asked this to the Jewish members of the Liberal Party to imagine if a subset of Germany's Jewish population within one of their concentration camps during WWII were to decide to kidnap their Nazi guard's innocent children as a means to try to free the whole of the population among them, would they think that those rogue members who organized it among the Jewish were to be thought of as acting irrationally 'terroristic'? I think it was convincing enough to perhaps make some change their minds in quitting the party over disagreements about Israel's role in all this. 

Does this help change your own perspective?

WTF, Gaza has been controlled by Hamas since 2005, if there is a concentration camp it is of their own making....West bank is under occupation and must follow Israelis laws, had it not taken part in previous conflicts this might not be the case...

As if the latest terrorist attacks is an excuse to do what they did present or past is a huge lie...Nothing could possible explain or give credence to what they done on Oct 7...You suggesting it, is fu*ked up on your part...explaining your ignorance on what a concentration camp is, and what happened within them...Below are concentration camps one from the NAZI's and one from the Serbs...we don't see anything like it in Gaza...or the west bank...

 150122-bergen-belsen-06.jpg

_53074495_jex_1061439_de24-1.jpg

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