US federal government borrows and gives to Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan

[Nationalist]

4 minutes ago, User said:

Talk about being disingenuous with the use of "expand"

Let's be clearer since you are going to play games. By "expand," we are talking about using force or other nefarious means to conquer and control, not that a country voluntarily joins an alliance for the mutual benefit of protection and maintains its independence otherwise.

No, Russia is making this a bad situation... your idea of a solution is to just let them win and the entire point of our aid is to support Ukraine so that Russia doesn't just win. 

 

Let's be real clear. Expand means expand. NATO did...Russia did not...until now.

Understand, I could care less about either Ukraine or Russia. But logic dictates that Ukraine cannot win. It ain'-a-gonna happen.

I would negotiate a peace deal now, before what's left of Ukraine still exists.

[Michael Hardner]

9 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

  Ukraine cannot win. It ain'-a-gonna happen.

 

They don't have to win. They just have to not lose.  Like Vietnam.

Edited April 24, 2024 by Michael Hardner

[User]

4 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Let's be real clear. Expand means expand. NATO did...Russia did not...until now.

Understand, I could care less about either Ukraine or Russia. But logic dictates that Ukraine cannot win. It ain'-a-gonna happen.

I would negotiate a peace deal now, before what's left of Ukraine still exists.

Let's be really clear: there is a huge difference between Russia's and NATO's expansion. It is not all just the same expansion, as if they are morally, ethically, or technically the same thing. 

No, you want to let Russia win and Ukraine lose, that is not the inevitable outcome at all with ours and other NATO countries support. 

The front lines have been stagnant for over the better part of a year now. Russia is making no real gains and is just throwing its men and equipment into the meat grinder. Their only hope of winning is to wait us out and hope we bail on Ukraine. 



 

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

What I know...Pee-Wee...is that this is none of Brandon's business. None of NATO's business. Brandon's stupidity emboldens everyone globally. He's a blithering id1ot.

Those in charge, particularly in Europe, see the danger that YOU ignore.

Just think of this as Hitler invading Poland and the rest of the Western world stopping him from taking it.

You want to let Putin succeed and grow STRONGER.

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, User said:

Of course it is our business and even more of NATO's. 

The entire point behind NATO was forming a strategic alliance in opposition to the expansion from the Soviet Union and that threat did not die with its collapse... because here is Russia still expanding. 

There is also some convoluted history to our support of Ukraine when they gained their independence from the Soviet Union. They took a lot of Nuclear weapons with them and voluntarily disarmed in coordination and agreement with Western nations. 

The US has an interest in promoting peace and stability in the world to some extent, including opposing continued Russian aggression. 

To what you refer is called the Budapest Memorandum. 

Russia, US and other European nations AGREED to guarantee Ukraine's security in exchange for relinquishing their nuclear weapons. Putin and Russia reneged and invaded. US and NATO is keeping their end of the agreement.

gnat boy is the coward who wants to surrender to Putin's aggression.

Edited April 24, 2024 by robosmith

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

They don't have to win. They just have to not lose.  Like Vietnam.

There's an idea. But is it worth the cost? What happens when there are no more Ukrainian soldiers?

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, User said:

Let's be really clear: there is a huge difference between Russia's and NATO's expansion. It is not all just the same expansion, as if they are morally, ethically, or technically the same thing. 

No, you want to let Russia win and Ukraine lose, that is not the inevitable outcome at all with ours and other NATO countries support. 

The front lines have been stagnant for over the better part of a year now. Russia is making no real gains and is just throwing its men and equipment into the meat grinder. Their only hope of winning is to wait us out and hope we bail on Ukraine. 



 

Exactly.

Are you gonna go to war? Because arms are not the only thing Ukraine lacks.

Edited April 24, 2024 by Nationalist

[gatomontes99]

Taiwan and Israel I understand. But I'm still split on Ukraine.

On one hand, what that sadistic bastard, Putin is doing is reprehensible. I get he wants the land and I get he thinks it gives him some security, but is the human cost really worth it? Because we signed a treaty with Ukraine and because we have the ability to stop it, we really should end the war.

On the other hand, Ukraine kind of brought it on themselves by bribing US politicians (on both sides of the aisle). I want to say they deserve what they get, but the people that are dead had nothing to do with the corruption.

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, robosmith said:

Those in charge, particularly in Europe, see the danger that YOU ignore.

Just think of this as Hitler invading Poland and the rest of the Western world stopping him from taking it.

You want to let Putin succeed and grow STRONGER.

I want this asinine war to end. And when it does, the losers will be the hundreds of thousands of dead.

[impartialobserver]

There are reasons that the government credit card keeps being used. No one is ready for the cold, hard, unpleasant truth. Especially the politicians who use it and would see their careers die if they quit using it. 

[Nationalist]

6 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

There are reasons that the government credit card keeps being used. No one is ready for the cold, hard, unpleasant truth. Especially the politicians who use it and would see their careers die if they quit using it. 

This is now undeniable.

[impartialobserver]

Just now, Nationalist said:

This is now undeniable.

Where I differ from everybody else... is that I know intimately that politicians on both sides use it and have no intentions on quitting. It makes them into heroes with their supporters. My heart with would be doing the right thing not having people worship at my fake altar. 

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, impartialobserver said:

Where I differ from everybody else... is that I know intimately that politicians on both sides use it and have no intentions on quitting. It makes them into heroes with their supporters. My heart with would be doing the right thing not having people worship at my fake altar. 

That's politicians. I have known a few as well. Follow the money is always the bottom line. 

Guess who's getting rich as a result of this tronch of cash?

[Goddess]

1 minute ago, Nationalist said:

Guess who's getting rich as a result of this tronch of cash?

Zelensky.

[User]

Just now, Goddess said:

Zelensky.

What do you base this on?

[impartialobserver]

1 minute ago, Nationalist said:

That's politicians. I have known a few as well. Follow the money is always the bottom line. 

Guess who's getting rich as a result of this tronch of cash?

the list is too long to even start. No politician is really serious about cutting spending. None that get elected anyways. The ones (on both sides) that really want this.. lose in the primaries or are so outnumbered as to make their ideas pointless. 

[User]

22 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Exactly.

Are you gonna go to war? Because arms are not the only thing Ukraine lacks.

I do not need to go to war, but we can certainly easily help Ukrainians continue to fight their own. 

[robosmith]

24 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

I want this asinine war to end. And when it does, the losers will be the hundreds of thousands of dead.

^Very Trumpian, AGAIN. Heroes killed in war defending their country are "suckers and losers" just like Trump said. 🤮

Of  course, that is just a cover for cowardice.

[robosmith]

12 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Zelensky.

I can see you've been watching (and believing) FOS LIES.

Did you believe the part about Zelenskyy and wife buying yachts and mansions in the US? LMAO

Got news for you, that is Russian propaganda.

[User]

1 minute ago, robosmith said:

^Very Trumpian, AGAIN. Heroes killed in war defending their country are "suckers and losers" just like Trump said. 🤮

Of  course, that is just a cover for cowardice.

Is English your first language?

He was very clearly saying they were losers in the fact that they are dead... in that, you lose when you die, not as an insult...  he also did not say suckers, so putting that in quotes as if he said it, saying "just like Trump", is not honest. 

[robosmith]

2 minutes ago, User said:

Is English your first language?

He was very clearly saying they were losers in the fact that they are dead... in that, you lose when you die, not as an insult...  he also did not say suckers, so putting that in quotes as if he said it, saying "just like Trump", is not honest. 

Is it yours?

Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Quote

Trump said, “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers.” In a separate conversation on the same trip, Trump referred to the more than 1,800 marines who lost their lives at Belleau Wood as “suckers” for getting killed.

 

[User]

2 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Is it yours?

I am well aware of what Trump is accused of saying... it is the implication here that you made that Nationalist was saying the same thing. 

That was pretty obvious. So why do you keep playing these games?

[Nationalist]

30 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Zelensky.

And the arms dealers and companies like Blackrock.

The Ukrainian people...get to die I guess...

30 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

the list is too long to even start. No politician is really serious about cutting spending. None that get elected anyways. The ones (on both sides) that really want this.. lose in the primaries or are so outnumbered as to make their ideas pointless. 

They get destroyed by The Uni-Party. We're watching that happen right now.

[impartialobserver]

2 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

And the arms dealers and companies like Blackrock.

The Ukrainian people...get to die I guess...

They get destroyed by The Uni-Party. We're watching that happen right now.

Hence why I do not support either party. If either truly wanted to decrease govt spending.. I would be on board but neither does. 

[Nationalist]

29 minutes ago, User said:

I do not need to go to war, but we can certainly easily help Ukrainians continue to fight their own. 

Really?

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-outnumbered-outgunned-ground-down-by-relentless-russia-2024-02-21/

4 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

Hence why I do not support either party. If either truly wanted to decrease govt spending.. I would be on board but neither does. 

Good point. But is not voting a realistic option?