Argus Posted February 4, 2006 Report Posted February 4, 2006 I can't imagine a satirical parody of the Holocaust being pooh-poohed...the offender would be forced to apologize, and withdraw the offending materiel. Guaranteed. (as long as they were cartoonist in a 'western culture', mind you). How do you satirize mass murder? On the other hand, numerous offensive depictions of Jesus and Christianity have been made without blood in the streets. I think one movie showed Jesus as a homosexual, didn't it? Another had he and Mary having sex. Everyone involved in those movies would have been executed if they did similar things towards Islam in Muslim countries. And speaking of Muslim countries and their gross hypocrisy, have a look around the net at the kind of cartoons acceptable to the government controlled Muslim press. They routinely depict Jews as the cliched hook-nosed, bearded, money grasping, blood loving vermin the Nazis did. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 4, 2006 Report Posted February 4, 2006 Stockwell Day may be against same sex marriage but he is a product of a western liberal education. If you find Stockwell Day intolerant, then you have not seen intolerance of the kind that existed several hundred years ago in Europe, or exists now in Saudi Arabia, for example.I do not wish to excuse the violance and the death threats coming from Muslims. I just feel these cartoons are the wrong basis to fight a battle over free speech on - they are too provactive and add nothing to the debate. One of the basics of western thought is that you have to defend principles wherever they are threatened, without regard to the case at hand. That's why we defend people who do very bad things - so that other people won't be threatened. You don't allow a little destruction of a basic principal on such spurious grounds as giving offence to fanatics. Think about what happened 15 or so years ago when a few people in Ontario stomped on a Quebec flag as a way to protest the bi-linguilism polices of their city gov't. Quebequers were appalled by that 'free speech' and made many threaten to create social chaos by breaking up the country. No one suggested that Quebequers reaction was unreasonable and everyone seemed to agree that execising free speech by stomping on a flag crossed a line that should not have been crossed. Bullshit. I thought they were acting like idiots. So what if a few people in some hick town stomped on a flag? Big deal! Quebecers have done worse. I had no sympathy with the whiners in Quebec on that one, so leave off including me in your "everyone agreed" nonsense. As Frederick Douglas said, freedom doesn't come without conflict. Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are people who want crops without ploughing the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning; they want the ocean without the roar of its many waters. The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand; it never has and it never will. - Douglas I feel the cartoons crossed a line in the same way and we should not be defending them.That's because you are mentally castrated. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
theloniusfleabag Posted February 4, 2006 Report Posted February 4, 2006 Dear Argus, If the Muslim world is ever to progress people need to start questioning. They at least need to start considering the possibility that one can treat Isalmic icons with something less than 100% reverence.I don't think you understand Islam. The reason the Muslim world is so backward is because of the inability of the people, or even intellectuals, to challenge or question the long-held interpretations of Islamic religious thought.It is not 'religious thought' (well, you and I think it is), the Koran is held to be 'the literal word of God'. To a believer, how can God possibly be questioned? You would have to declare that God had it wrong. And then you would be an infidel. The reason Rushdie was villified is that he suggested Muhammed wrote the Koran. Muslims believe God wrote it, and they believe that this is the closest mankind has come to God. I suggest you read some of the Koran, I downloaded and printed off most of it from the USC website, but it had three translations for each verse, so it was incredibly lengthy. Used a whole toner cartridge. However, it is held that only the sanskrit (or whatever language) is the 'literal words of God', so something gets lost in the translation. Why do people feel such a deep need to be told by God what to do? (If you do read some of the Koran, you will see how it works. All of 'God's instructions' for living are there...no need to think.) Quote Would the Special Olympics Committee disqualify kids born with flippers from the swimming events?
Argus Posted February 4, 2006 Report Posted February 4, 2006 Oh it does, does it? So what kind of "punishment" would you give to media which refused to go along with your sweeping censorship laws? And who would enforce these laws?Where did I call for censorship laws? All I said was the Danish cartoonist should take some responsibility for what happened. You spoke approvingly of this web site, where our speech is restricted by Greg, then said that restraint would be better in all media. Don't pretend that wasn't a desire to censor those who give offence. There are lines that should not be crossed. In our culture, almost everyone respects the lines that our culture sets. However, we seem to have a complete blind spot when it comes to lines set by other cultures. I see think this blindness a hypocritical. Balls. I give offence to lots of people. Why should I exempt Muslims? If I say Muhammed was a rapist and mass murderer I'm giving my opinion based on history. Should I be killed for it? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 4, 2006 Report Posted February 4, 2006 Dear Argus,If the Muslim world is ever to progress people need to start questioning. They at least need to start considering the possibility that one can treat Isalmic icons with something less than 100% reverence.I don't think you understand Islam. The reason the Muslim world is so backward is because of the inability of the people, or even intellectuals, to challenge or question the long-held interpretations of Islamic religious thought.It is not 'religious thought' (well, you and I think it is), the Koran is held to be 'the literal word of God'. To a believer, how can God possibly be questioned? You would have to declare that God had it wrong. And then you would be an infidel. The reason Rushdie was villified is that he suggested Muhammed wrote the Koran. Muslims believe God wrote it, and they believe that this is the closest mankind has come to God. And that is the kind of ignorance that needs to be addressed. The Koranic verses were last interpreted many centuries ago. No on in the Islamic world disputes that. They were interpreted by Islamic scholars, not God. Yet it is still forbidden to question that interpretation in any way, shape or form. And as long as that many centuries old interpretation is not re-examined in light of a modern age, the Muslim world will remain mired in barbarism and ignorance. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
theloniusfleabag Posted February 4, 2006 Report Posted February 4, 2006 Dear Argus, And that is the kind of ignorance that needs to be addressed.I agree with you, but I believe that all faith is based on ignorance (as an explanation for those things of which we are, or were, all ignorant), so I advocate a 'round table' worldwide debate on the merits of, and truth of, all religion. Quote Would the Special Olympics Committee disqualify kids born with flippers from the swimming events?
August1991 Posted February 4, 2006 Report Posted February 4, 2006 You have this weird tendancy to make statements-nay! proclimations-about the nature of the "Left" as though the left were a monolithic and easily pigeonholed entity with uniform goals and beliefs. It's a total strawman, you know. (Seriously: "The Left feels uncomfortable defending the dominant philosophy of Western liberal values"?? WTF? Where do you think those wacky leftist ideas about "social liberal causes" comes from?)About 2 million Canadians voted NDP and most of them favour more government (tax and spend), gay marriage, abortion-on-demand. They instinctively support the little guy and think Americans are brash, domineering and "imperialistic". Corporations and profits are not to be trusted; truly democratic government is good.When does a stereotypical description turn into bigotry? You make a good point, BD. The "North American Left" is hardly a disciplined cadre of revolutionaries taking strict ideological orders from some basement legal aid office in San Francisco. I read thethread in question and saw exactly one poster make the argument above and one othe rone make some pretty mealy mouthed anti-censorship/anti-hate speech statements. But the vast majority are on teh side of freedom of speech.Vast majority? It was a pitched battle. This, on a forum that has no tolerance for Christian intolerance. Sorry, I call it double standard. Heck, they banned me for less. Quote
August1991 Posted February 4, 2006 Report Posted February 4, 2006 I can't imagine a satirical parody of the Holocaust being pooh-poohed...the offender would be forced to apologize, and withdraw the offending materiel. Guaranteed. (as long as they were cartoonist in a 'western culture', mind you). The Producers ---- But Thelonious, this is not a contest to see who can be the most offensive. The principle of "free speech", what the Left refers to as "speaking Truth to Power" or "Question Authority", is a principle that comes directly from the history of liberal thought. It was developed precisely to question religious dogma. Galileo was forced to recant and admit that he was wrong. Yet he still mumbled, "But it moves". It is this principle that is in play now. Quote
August1991 Posted February 4, 2006 Report Posted February 4, 2006 Think about what happened 15 or so years ago when a few people in Ontario stomped on a Quebec flag as a way to protest the bi-linguilism polices of their city gov't. Quebequers were appalled by that 'free speech' and made many threaten to create social chaos by breaking up the country. No one suggested that Quebequers reaction was unreasonable and everyone seemed to agree that execising free speech by stomping on a flag crossed a line that should not have been crossed.Quebecers did not invade anglo offices in Montreal, and tourists didn't leave Quebec in fear of their safety.More importantly Sparhawk, disputes in Canada, among Western liberals, are conducted passionately but with an implicit understanding of the "scientific method". We exist as individuals free to decide. Quote
August1991 Posted February 4, 2006 Report Posted February 4, 2006 ... the Koran is held to be 'the literal word of God'. To a believer, how can God possibly be questioned? You would have to declare that God had it wrong. And then you would be an infidel...Yes, and when Galileo stood before the Inquisition and stated that the Earth moved, he was considered a heretic.Thelonious, Galileo is now speaking to Muslims, and he's saying the same thing. The Koran is not the word of God. It can't be. Why? The Earth moves. ---- If this sounds frightening or radical, it shouldn't be. Many Muslims know this already. They too are "western" liberals. Too many are afraid to voice an opinion given the political climate. Thelonious, I don't know how much you have travelled. My statistical sample is hardly scientific but let me generalize on people I have met. All through the Middle East, there are many young women terrified of their brothers and hopeful for their marriage. There are many single men who feel frustrated because they can't talk to young women. There are many divorced women who feel abandoned. There are even incipient gays who feel confused. Poor or rich, they dream of escaping, going to America, despite all they have heard against America. Why? Because they are curious to know what it is to be truly free. Sadly, the issue has now become tribal: "Whose side are you on?" Even western Leftists have fallen for this, siding with the non-Americans, despite the ideological contortion required. It shouldn't be. Leftists, social liberals, should be helping gays to exist in the Islamic world. Think, Thelonious. How do the millions of Muslim gay men and Muslim lesbian "ladies" (statistically, they're there - but secretly) feel about the Koran? Quote
arif Posted February 4, 2006 Report Posted February 4, 2006 Just want you to know, I'm a Muslim and it kills me to see the violence. The Koran tells us that to kill one innocent person is like killing all of humanity. I love people of all faiths, I love the 23rd psalm as much as I love a Rumi poem. I know our religion looks bad now. I'm not even angry at the comments against it anymore, I'm angry at the folks who've hijacked it. Before you recommend I change religion, please consider a broader look. Consider the work of the AKDN, www.akdn.org. Consider the Sufis. Consider the moderate movements in Islam, consider that there are modern, tolerant, loving communities whose faith and love support members through life, death, marriage, children. Remember the contributions of Muslim philosophers, mathematicians, scientists, poets. Remember Omar Khayam, Rumi, Hafeez, Ibn Gabirol. Consider that the Meccan verses of the Koran are more fundamental than the Medina verses, which were contextual to threats. Some movements have based their thinking on the Meccan verses, pro-democratic, tolerant, respectful to women. Others prefer the Surah of War. Some are literalists, others understand the role of intellect. Look at www.jerusalempeacemakers.org. Interfaith youth core. Don't take all your info on Islam from the news, the news only reports the sensational. I intend myself to keep speaking up about how violence in Islam is our biggest problem, but I will also remind people of our heritage that is inspirational, so that we understand there is a better path. Consider the following story of Prophet Mohammed (pbuh), which should have instructed us on how to react. During the early days of the mission, as the prophet walked through the town, a lady from a second-story window that didn't appreciate him would dump her garbage on him each day as he passed by. One day he passed by and nothing! He inquired within, he asked if something had happened and whether everything was allright. She was so taken aback by the kindness that she joined the mission. This is what has become known in Islam as adab, that is a courtesy of the highest respect. I know that obviously there are Muslims who show no such courteousy even to life itself. It is not our faith, or our way. I believe in this post, I have shown courteousy, and I hope that this discussion and this whole world would adopt adab. It is no excuse to blame anothers lack of adab, for not showing it yourself, and by this I refer to the reaction, the reaction to the reaction and the whole set of reactionary thinking that will only lead us nowhere. At some point, we have to raise our knowledge and insight, and each person is responsible for that, no one is a victim. Some sources of inspiration: Look at www.jerusalempeacemakers.org. Interfaith youth core. Maybe it's a cliche to hold a balance, or to look at the positive. I'm the first to say that the terrorists are evil, they are in fact heretical. But I know that hostility and fear are not good, therefore we need to discern between Muslims and Islam, and muslim terrorists and Islamism. I know that we Muslims must be the most responsible for it, and I accept that. I only ask you to join me in supporting the moderate voices. Muslim Canadian Congress, for instance, has condemned the reaction. Discernment will help you in our fight against the terrorists, and you may make some really good friends, most Muslims are really good, nice people just like members of any faith, or any right wing, left wing, whatever. peace and blessings, Arif ishq (persian word for love) this love is an ocean and there are no islands no land in sight Quote
August1991 Posted February 4, 2006 Report Posted February 4, 2006 Just want you to know,I'm a Muslim and it kills me to see the violence. The Koran tells us that to kill one innocent person is like killing all of humanity. I love people of all faiths, I love the 23rd psalm as much as I love a Rumi poem. Arif, i have no desire to see violence either. I have seen too much of its consequences.Arif, I read your post, and I too appreciate the need to respect one another in a civilized world. But that's not the issue now. The Koran is not the word of God. The Koran was written by some guy, and he made mistakes. Arabic is not the language of God. Muslims have to figure out servitude to God, truth, their own individual way. Quote
theloniusfleabag Posted February 4, 2006 Report Posted February 4, 2006 Dear August1991, Think, Thelonious. How do the millions of Muslim gay men and Muslim lesbian "ladies" (statistically, they're there - but secretly) feel about the Koran? I would expect that they would feel the same as Chinese or some 'Christian' gays. In my "World Human Rights Guide", (which is a bit dated) one of the questions was, "Is there freedom to: practice homosexuality between consenting adults?" Saudi Arabia has a 'No', Illegal but tolerated if practiced discreetly. The legal maximum sentence is beheading, ". China had 'No', "Not mentioned in the legal code as the practice is not admitted to exist within The People's Republic. Charges would come under 'offensive behaviour'." Thelonious, I don't know how much you have travelled.Admittedly, nowhere near as much as you. It shouldn't be. Leftists, social liberals, should be helping gays to exist in the Islamic world.Homosexuality still hasn't been fully accepted in the 'western world', it would be a bit formidable fighting for Islam to accept it. But, it all comes down to this...The Koran is not the word of God. The Koran was written by some guy, and he made mistakes. Arabic is not the language of God. Again, I would like to see all religion challenged to an international debate. Quote Would the Special Olympics Committee disqualify kids born with flippers from the swimming events?
PocketRocket Posted February 4, 2006 Report Posted February 4, 2006 Imagine their outrage if someone had done something like this with Mohammed....... http://www.devilducky.com/media/40716/ Quote I need another coffee
YankAbroad Posted February 4, 2006 Report Posted February 4, 2006 Homosexuality still hasn't been fully accepted in the 'western world', it would be a bit formidable fighting for Islam to accept it. Speaking as one o' dem homos, I have to say that comparing even the most homophobic western country to the average Middle Eastern country is ridiculous. I'd much rather live in the deep south as a gay man than in the most cosmopolitan Saudi city as the same. As for "phrases often sound extreme when translated into English," someone should tell these guys that -- they're apparently translating their own phrases. These are some signs from the riot here in London yesterday: As a libertarian (and Libertarian), I'm supposed to stay silent when lunatics rampage through the streets calling for "freedom to go to hell" and demanding that people who disagree with them be executed? I don't think so. EDIT: Doesn't look like the image tag works. Try cutting and pasting those photos into your web browser to see the "rage" of the poor innocent people who were so put off by an editorial cartoon. Quote
Argus Posted February 4, 2006 Report Posted February 4, 2006 I know our religion looks bad now. I'm not even angry at the comments against it anymore, I'm angry at the folks who've hijacked it. Before you recommend I change religion, please consider a broader look.Consider the work of the AKDN, www.akdn.org. Consider the Sufis. Consider the moderate movements in Islam, consider that there are modern, tolerant, loving communities whose faith and love support members through life, death, marriage, children. Remember the contributions of Muslim philosophers, mathematicians, scientists, poets. Remember Omar Khayam, Rumi, Hafeez, Ibn Gabirol. Consider that the Meccan verses of the Koran are more fundamental than the Medina verses, which were contextual to threats. Some movements have based their thinking on the Meccan verses, pro-democratic, tolerant, respectful to women. Others prefer the Surah of War. Some are literalists, others understand the role of intellect. Look at www.jerusalempeacemakers.org. Interfaith youth core. Don't take all your info on Islam from the news, the news only reports the sensational. I intend myself to keep speaking up about how violence in Islam is our biggest problem, but I will also remind people of our heritage that is inspirational, so that we understand there is a better path. Consider the following story of Prophet Mohammed (pbuh), which should have instructed us on how to react. During the early days of the mission, as the prophet walked through the town, a lady from a second-story window that didn't appreciate him would dump her garbage on him each day as he passed by. One day he passed by and nothing! He inquired within, he asked if something had happened and whether everything was allright. She was so taken aback by the kindness that she joined the mission. This is what has become known in Islam as adab, that is a courtesy of the highest respect. Never heard the above story. It's a strange contrast with the ones about him piling up heads and allowing his followers to rape women taken prisoners. If more of Islam's followers took that as their tone, as how they should act, I would have no problem with Islam as a religion, or the culture it spawned. Unfortunately, the attitudes of the majority of Islam's followers do not appear to be very much in keeping with the peace and restraint demonstrated in the above story. Almost all the activists, all the leaders of Islamic reform appear to be headed in the opposite direction, wanting strict Sharia law, the subjugation of women, and death to heretics. I'm quite certain that, as with the Bible, the Koran contains many violent verses, and also many which speak of peace. Unfortunately, it is the former which appears to be given precedence these days. We can probably blame the Wahabis and their money for the spread of that sort of thinking. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
YankAbroad Posted February 4, 2006 Report Posted February 4, 2006 The Vatican has stepped into the furor. Read this passage very carefully and consider the consequences: http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/02/04/syria.cartoon.ap/ In its first official comments on the caricatures, the Vatican, while deploring violent protests, said certain forms of criticism represent an "unacceptable provocation." "The right to freedom of thought and expression ... cannot entail the right to offend the religious sentiment of believers," the Vatican said in a statement. In other words, thought and expression which goes against "religious sentiment" should be illegal and illegitimate. That's right -- free THOUGHT "cannot entail the right to offend the religious sentiment of believers." Orwell would be proud. And these are the people who want us to consider their views as public policy? HA! This entire event is being used by religious fascists to justify government policies which would destroy our freedom of thought, speech and debate in areas involving religion's undue influence on political environments. Quote
Argus Posted February 4, 2006 Report Posted February 4, 2006 The Vatican has stepped into the furor.Read this passage very carefully and consider the consequences: http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/02/04/syria.cartoon.ap/ In its first official comments on the caricatures, the Vatican, while deploring violent protests, said certain forms of criticism represent an "unacceptable provocation." "The right to freedom of thought and expression ... cannot entail the right to offend the religious sentiment of believers," the Vatican said in a statement. The Vatican can go screw itself. I understand, of course, their attitude, for freedom does nothing good for them as an institution. They would prefer everyone just shut up and listen with wide eyes and ears to whatever they choose to tell us. But this is why the West is superior to the East; because we ignore the dictates of religious bureacrats. If God has a problem with people drawing cartoons of him I'm pretty sure God can handle that without help from anyone else. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
YankAbroad Posted February 4, 2006 Report Posted February 4, 2006 If God has a problem with people drawing cartoons of him I'm pretty sure God can handle that without help from anyone else. That's really why all these protests and attacks exhibit the weakness of the underlying doctrine itself -- if they honestly believe in a powerful and omnipotent god who will strike down his enemies, why do they need to go to bat for him? He can just twiddle his little finger and take care of his enemies. Unless, of course, that powerful and omnipotent god doesn't exist, or they have doubts about his power and omnipotence. . . Quote
Insom Elvis Posted February 6, 2006 Report Posted February 6, 2006 If God has a problem with people drawing cartoons of him I'm pretty sure God can handle that without help from anyone else. That's really why all these protests and attacks exhibit the weakness of the underlying doctrine itself -- if they honestly believe in a powerful and omnipotent god who will strike down his enemies, why do they need to go to bat for him? He can just twiddle his little finger and take care of his enemies. Unless, of course, that powerful and omnipotent god doesn't exist, or they have doubts about his power and omnipotence. . . If they want their countries to be under total lockdown from freedom of speech, so be it. The muslims exhibiting outrage in the form of violence are only securing the fact that they can't tolerate the kind of lifestyle we take for granted. It's a shame that they feel the need to resort to violence but to each their own i guess. Personally I'm staying right here in U.S.A. where there's a lot of political drama, but I can draw a cartoon and not have to worry about being shot at. I can't wait to see Europe and australia, but you couldn'y pay me enough to step off a plane in any country where the people are so determined to not let others express an opinion. Quote
moderateamericain Posted February 6, 2006 Report Posted February 6, 2006 If God has a problem with people drawing cartoons of him I'm pretty sure God can handle that without help from anyone else. That's really why all these protests and attacks exhibit the weakness of the underlying doctrine itself -- if they honestly believe in a powerful and omnipotent god who will strike down his enemies, why do they need to go to bat for him? He can just twiddle his little finger and take care of his enemies. Unless, of course, that powerful and omnipotent god doesn't exist, or they have doubts about his power and omnipotence. . . If they want their countries to be under total lockdown from freedom of speech, so be it. The muslims exhibiting outrage in the form of violence are only securing the fact that they can't tolerate the kind of lifestyle we take for granted. It's a shame that they feel the need to resort to violence but to each their own i guess. Personally I'm staying right here in U.S.A. where there's a lot of political drama, but I can draw a cartoon and not have to worry about being shot at. I can't wait to see Europe and australia, but you couldn'y pay me enough to step off a plane in any country where the people are so determined to not let others express an opinion. Unless actually eurpoeans do something about the flood over muslim immigrants into there, europe is on its way to being another mulim continent. That will leave only parts of Asia, S.America, S. Africa, Pacific asia, and N. America as the only free places in the world. Just look at the countries under siege from Muslim extremism Russia France England Germany Italy Every single country in Eastern Europe Spain The muslims are going to slowly take over these countries just by having kids like rabbits have babies. Quote
Insom Elvis Posted February 7, 2006 Report Posted February 7, 2006 Unless actually eurpoeans do something about the flood over muslim immigrants into there, europe is on its way to being another mulim continent. That will leave only parts of Asia, S.America, S. Africa, Pacific asia, and N. America as the only free places in the world.Just look at the countries under siege from Muslim extremism Russia France England Germany Italy Every single country in Eastern Europe Spain The muslims are going to slowly take over these countries just by having kids like rabbits have babies. I agree there as well, they might be their own little civilization within our borders, but do you think people like this will stay calm and cool when they outnumber us? Like the current siyuation in the U.S., not so much Muslims as Mexicans, and personally I'd rather have the Mexicans, but we left our borders open and we're close to being outnumbered by people from another country. We can't make English the official language, all of our lives have to adapt to allow room for their culture. I dread the day this happens to Europe with the Muslims. Quote
scribblet Posted February 7, 2006 Report Posted February 7, 2006 If God has a problem with people drawing cartoons of him I'm pretty sure God can handle that without help from anyone else. That's really why all these protests and attacks exhibit the weakness of the underlying doctrine itself -- if they honestly believe in a powerful and omnipotent god who will strike down his enemies, why do they need to go to bat for him? He can just twiddle his little finger and take care of his enemies. Unless, of course, that powerful and omnipotent god doesn't exist, or they have doubts about his power and omnipotence. . . If they want their countries to be under total lockdown from freedom of speech, so be it. The muslims exhibiting outrage in the form of violence are only securing the fact that they can't tolerate the kind of lifestyle we take for granted. It's a shame that they feel the need to resort to violence but to each their own i guess. Personally I'm staying right here in U.S.A. where there's a lot of political drama, but I can draw a cartoon and not have to worry about being shot at. I can't wait to see Europe and australia, but you couldn'y pay me enough to step off a plane in any country where the people are so determined to not let others express an opinion. Freedom of speech is under attack now at the U of T http://www.knowradicalislam.com/ By BRODIE FENLON- http://www.torontosun.com/News/TorontoAndG...429452-sun.html A week-long conference on radical Islam organized by Jewish student groups at the University of Toronto has stirred up controversy and resentment among Muslims at a time of heightened sensitivities due to world events. The "Know Radical Islam Week," which includes presentations on terrorism and civil rights violations in Islamic regimes, began yesterday at Sidney Smith Hall just as violent protests swept the globe over published caricatures of Prophet Mohammed. The coincidence was not lost on U of T student Jonathan Jaffit, director of campus affairs for Betar-Tagar, the Zionist student activist group that helped organize the conference. "The issue of the cartoons in the European media just goes to showcase even further how radical Islam is suppressing freedom of speech through violence," he said. Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
Black Dog Posted February 8, 2006 Report Posted February 8, 2006 ... Furthermore, when a delegation of Danish imams went to the Middle East to discuss the issue of the cartoons with senior officials and prominent Islamic scholars, the imams openly distributed a booklet that showed not only the original 12 cartoons, but three fraudulent anti-Mohammed depictions that were much more offensive than the ones published in Denmark. It is now thought that these three bonus images are what ignited the outrage in the Muslim world. The newspaper Ekstra Bladet obtained a copy of the booklet and presented the three offensive images on its Web site (though not in an easy-to-find place). All look like low-quality photocopies. link If true, this would demonstrate a level of treachery and unscrupulous hypocrisy that even the most suspicious of Muslims would have doubted possible on the part of Muslim "citizens" of the west. More here. Ahmed Akkari, a young Islamic scholar and Danish activist, was on a mission. Having failed to get the Prime Minister to take action over the cartoons' perceived slight to Islam, he had sought help from esteemed figures in the Muslim world, he says.Over the next few weeks, he would hand copies of his green booklet to the grand mufti of Egypt, the chief cleric of the Sunni faith, leaders of the Arab League, the top official of the Lebanese Christian church and others. They stared in amazement at the images in the book, he remembered during a lengthy interview yesterday, and vowed to take action to help him. "They said to me, 'Do they really say this is the Prophet Mohammed? They must really have no respect for religion up there in Denmark.' And they said they would make it known." Mr. Akkari now finds himself regretting the results of his brief journey, the somewhat distorted message of which flashed around the Muslim world by Internet, newspaper and text message, and caused millions of Muslims to believe that Denmark and the Nordic countries had become home to blasphemies. .... For his booklet contained not only the 12 depictions of the Prophet Mohammed that had appeared in the newspaper Jyllands-Posten in September. He also filled it with hideous, amateur images of the Prophet as a pig, a dog, a woman and a child-sodomizing madman. Flipping through the book yesterday, he explained that these images had been items of hate mail sent to his colleagues by right-wing extremists who disapproved of their activism. These images, he insistently demonstrated, were separated from the newspaper cartoons by several pages of letters. "How could anyone mistake these for the newspaper images?" he asked. "It cannot be that anyone would make this mistake." Quote
scribblet Posted February 9, 2006 Report Posted February 9, 2006 All of this has served to re-inforce the stereotype of Muslim intolerance and violence. Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.